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Obama on Trump: Ignorance Is Not a Virtue; ISIS Claims Responsibility for Iraq Gas Plant Attack; Jihadist Groups Threatening to Drive Christians Out of Syria, Destroying Priceless Icons. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired May 16, 2016 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:30:00] ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: So he's right. He is an outside candidate, but I just wonder if this is really going to set in. I've been surprised so far to see how this has worked with them because I believe American voters are brilliant. So I'm just wondering when this is going to change over. And the other interesting thing is they say Donald Trump is going to become presidential and waiting anxiously for that day to occur. He's well on his way to get security briefings. We need to turn over a new leaf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: After the convention, he formally gets a daily intelligence Democratic nominee and get the daily intelligence briefing by the CIA, and that's coming up.

Mary Katherine, I want to show you economic growth in the United States during the last four presidencies. You can see over there, Ronald Reagan and you can see George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton and George W. Bush and you see Barack Obama. And it was higher at one point with Reagan, clearly. It dipped at the end of the first Bush administration and went up during the Bill Clinton administration. It went really down at the very, very end of the George W. Bush administration. It collapsed right when President Obama was taking office. He's brought it back. He's helped bring it back.

If it's "the economy, stupid," as they say, that that's going to be the major issue, how will that play going forward because Trump and whoever the Democratic nominee is?

MARY KATHERINE HAM, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think that's always a main part of the message. And especially now and I think I think what the president has recognized over the many years is that selling the economy as just a happy story is not the truth. There are people who are hurting out there and, in some cases, stagnant wages and middle class earnings taking a hit. To some extent, Donald Trump tapped into that and Bernie Sanders has tapped into that. People say, look, the system is not working for all of us. And so I think that is the part that plays out. And a bit that's cultural, as you see with Donald Trump, and a bit is economic.

And I do want to say, on the front with the commencement speech, that President Obama didn't just address Donald Trump's anti- intellectualism. He recognized that on college campuses, ironically, there's an anti-intellectual force as well, scolding Rutgers for not bringing Condoleezza Rice to speak, when they all protested and said, we cannot have her here. She's a former secretary of state. That's a form of anti-intellectualism as well. They're shielding themselves from different viewpoints.

BLITZER: Let's talk about the vice presidential picks. John, I want to get your thoughts. Who would be the perfect pick for Donald Trump?

JOHN PHILLIPS, TALK RADIO HOST, KABC: I would go with Bob Gates or a general because, in 1992, Bill Clinton changed the way vice presidents are picked. It used to be you wanted a balance, either regional balance or if you were a younger candidate, you wanted an older person that was on the ticket with you. In 1992, the world changed because Bill Clinton said, look, I'm going to pick a guy, I'm going to pick a candidate that's going to reinforce the product I'm selling. I'm selling a new Democrat, a moderate Democrat, young guys from the south, and he picked Al Gore. I think Donald Trump should pick someone who's an outsider, yet maybe has a little bit of experience inside the government. And that could be someone from the military where they aren't part of that Washington capitol establishment, yet they are coming from the ranks of the government. So I think that would be a big help for him.

BLITZER: Bob Gates over the weekend didn't completely rule out the possibility but he didn't think it was very likely that he would want to do it and pointed out he's 73 years old right now.

Mary Katherine, I want you to listen. Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, speaking to Hugh Hewitt on his radio show, was asked about potential pick for Trump. Here's his thoughts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REINCE PRIEBUS, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: I kind of left those V.P. rumors go by the wayside and assume that the Trump campaign understands that while he's an outsider and represents sort of the shake-up in Washington, which you don't want to lose, because I think that is what people want out there across the country, he also we're going to have a real seasoned veteran. And I do agree with you. I think there has to be a degree of diversity on the ballot. Now, whether it be diversity of age, gender or ethnic background, somehow or another, diversity is important in some respect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: What do you think?

HAM: It sounds to me like he's saying there are so many gaps to fill. You could pick any number of people.

(LAUGHTER)

But I think --

BLITZER: Would it be wise for him to pick a woman, for example?

HAM: I think that would probably be helpful to some extent.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Mary Fallin, the governor of Oklahoma, her name has been mentioned several times.

HAM: I think it's worth a try to blunt some of the criticism of him on the front, and there will be plenty of it, as we've seen with this "The New York Times" stories, and I think the stories will continue to come out. I think that's not a bad idea because Donald Trump, the truth is he wants to be Donald Trump all the time, and to find somebody who's going to complement that is a trick, and to find somebody who maybe does know a little more about policy would be the smartest thing.

BLITZER: Very quickly, on the Democratic side, the perfect pick, let's say, for Hillary Clinton?

RYE: I think it has to be someone who speaks the same type of populism message as Bernie Sanders. Right now, the person who's doing that and is getting Donald Trump. We'll see.

[13:35:06] BLITZER: We'll see what happens.

All right, guys, thank you very much.

Coming up, a very different story we're following right now. ISIS is launching a series of deadly attacks as Iraqi forces backed by the U.S.-led coalition try to regain some territory captured by the terror group. We're going live to the region. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Iraqi forces launched an operation today to retake a strategic town from ISIS. This follows a string of attacks that killed more than 115 people in just the past week. ISIS claimed responsibility for those terror attacks. One of the latest targets is a natural gas plant in Taji, just north of Baghdad. Iraqi officials say 10 people were killed and two dozen others were injured.

CNN senior international correspondent, Arwa Damon, is joining us now live from Istanbul.

Arwa, what is contributing to the latest ISIS surge of attacks inside Iraq?

[13:40:19] ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, over the last week or so, you had at least a hundred people killed. More, in fact, in a series of attacks that took place in the capitol and around but that really focused on Baghdad. There could be a couple of reasons for this. Now the U.S. military will say that it is a by-product of ISIS coming under pressure in other parts of the country. But it could be because -- remember, ISIS is an entity that can morph and adapt quickly. It could also be ISIS trying to perhaps change its tactics. By focusing more on the capitol and focusing on vulnerable areas and key installations like that natural gas station, ISIS could be attempting to draw the Iraqi security forces away from the various different front lines. Because at the end of the day, the Iraqi government does have to ensure that while it is trying to drive ISIS out of key territory in the rest of the country, it cannot lose its grip. The security forces cannot lose their grip on Baghdad. So that perhaps could be coming into play.

But it's also an indication of the sheer reality that despite the fact that ISIS is, yes, under pressure, yes, they have lost some territory in Iraq, there is that offensive you're mentioning in the key city of Rutsba (ph) that if the Iraqi security forces could recapture, it would be that a logistical ISIS supply route would then be cut off. ISIS is still capable of carrying out attacks in the capitol and it is also capable of carrying out complex sophisticated attacks -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Arwa Damon reporting for us. Arwa, thank you.

I want to talk about strategy in Iraq.

Joining us is CNN military analyst, former Army commanding general, Mark Hertling.

General, thank you very much for joining us.

Some officials suggested the latest wave of ISIS terror attacks, more than 100 people killed, it was actually a sign of desperation on the part of ISIS. You buy that?

GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I don't. It's partly they're trying to hit the Iraqi government in many places. This plant they struck in Taji was a propane gas plant, the way most Iraqi people cook. So it's affecting the life of the normal Iraqi. At the same time, they're attacking Shias in Sadr City. It continues that sectarian attempt to divide the Sunni and the Shia. At the same time all this is happening, Wolf, they're preparing for an attack in Raqqa in Syria but also Mosul. They have suffered losses there. So they --

(CROSSTALK)

HERTLING: Well, the ISIS --

BLITZER: ISIS.

HERTLING: ISIS has. So what ISIS is attempting to do is spread this out a little bit. Let's pull, as Arwa said, the security forces back towards Baghdad to continue operations in Mosul. It's a very smart move on ISIS' part.

BLITZER: In addition to air power, let's say the Iraqis get in and launch this offensive to liberate Mosul, the second-largest city in Iraq, which ISIS has controlled for nearly two years, in addition to U.S. air power, what other role will the U.S. play? Because there are some 5,000 U.S. ground troops in Iraq right now.

HERTLING: It's got to be intelligence, Wolf, and some resupply logistics. That's what is going to drive the operation. Just this weekend, as well as the explosion, there was also massive tunnels found in and around Mosul. That's going to make the fighting by Iraqi forces tougher. So the intelligence on where those tunnels are, where ISIS forces are, that's critically important to the Iraqi military.

BLITZER: You think the Iraqi military this year is going to be able to liberate Mosul? Because that was their publicly stated objective.

HERTLING: Yes, it's very ambitious, Wolf. I don't believe it's going to happen this year. They may continue to try and tighten that noose around Mosul, but in order to clear and secure that town, it's going to take a long time.

BLITZER: What's taking them so long? It's been two years already.

HERTLING: They're building up their force. ISIS has had defensive positions there. The Iraqi government is feeding forces in and around Mosul. But remember, they've got fights elsewhere. They're fighting in Ramadi and in Fallujah. They're still trying to secure to area around Baghdad. There are many areas where they've got to provide forces. And we haven't helped them recover from this Maliki contribution.

BLITZER: Nouri al Maliki, the former prime minister.

HERTLING: Right.

BLITZER: You think Haider al Abadi, the new, relatively new prime minister, is better?

HERTLING: He's better and he's desperately trying to fix things. But, boy, he has real competition from the other Shia militia groups and from the Shia politicians. He's not able to pull them together. They need a Jefferson and Adams, but he's not that, but he's attempting to try to put it together.

BLITZER: Some experts have point out that Maliki, in opposition, is a huge problem for Haider al Abadi, the current prime minister.

HERTLING: Yeah. Mr. Abadi is trying to pull Iraqi nationalism together and Mr. Maliki is still very tied to the Iranian government and is trying to detract that. There's some infighting in the Baghdad government, which is unfortunate because they're dealing on two fronts, a military front and a civil front. And right now, they're not doing well on either.

[13:45:12] BLITZER: Another problem that's often mentioned is the Iraqi military simply doesn't have the will to fight.

HERTLING: I'm not sure I buy that. As they are --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: They ran away as soon as 2000 ISIS terrorists came in. They abandoned U.S. weapons, armored personnel carriers and simply ran away.

HERTLING: They did that two years ago. What we see now is more of a nationalistic influence in their force. They have new leaders and this is what caused them, for the most part, to run away, poor leadership, no pay, non-support from the Iraqi central government. They're starting to get those right now. But truthfully, this is a new army. This is an entirely new army and they've got a lot of growing pains to go through.

BLITZER: General Hertling, thank you very much for joining us.

HERTLING: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: We're going to continue to follow what's going on there in Iraq.

But we're also going to take a look at what's going on in Syria right now inside a town that ISIS has vowed to destroy. Why the people there refuse to leave and what they're doing to fight back. Our Fred Pleitgen will join us live from Damascus with a close look at the Syrian Christian community.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:50:06] BLITZER: In war-torn Syria, one Christian community is rebuilding, at least trying after being occupied by al Qaeda fighters. Residents still fear for their lives after jihadist groups threatened to wipe them out.

Our senior international correspondent, Fred Pleitgen, has this exclusive report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(SINGING)

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): "Jesus loves you no matter how you feel, these children sing at a religion class in Maaloula, Syria's most famous Christian town, which was occupied by Islamist militants for six months. Several townspeople are still missing.

"I want things to be better, like they were before and for the kidnapped people to come back," 7 year old Gabriella says.

Similar words from 8-year-old Barla Hamoon (ph) "I want Maaloula to be better and more beautiful than it used to be," she says.

"Shocking, their reaction when I ask how many of them have had to flee their homes."

Islamist rebels, led by al Qaeda's wing in Syria, Jabhat al Nusra, invaded Maaloula in late 2013. This video by one of the groups allegedly shows a suicide blast that took out the checkpoint to the village.

The rebels kidnapped 12 nuns from a convent. It took more than six months of intense battles to oust them.

But scars remain. This is the convent and shrine, or what's left of it, a warning to Syria's Christian community.

(on camera): While some buildings here in Maaloula have been restored, others remain exactly like this, completely destroyed and mostly burned out. And of course, many people who live in this town ask themselves whether Christianity still here a future here in Syria.

(voice-over): Syria is home to one of the oldest Christian communities in the world. Maaloula is the last place where the Aramaic that Jesus spoke is still in use. But groups like ISIS have vowed to oust the Christians from this land.

This member of Maaloula's city council shows me just some of the priceless icons that were damaged or looted, especially the most ancient ones.

JOSEF SAADI, MAALOULA CITY COUNCILMAN: They stole it, and then they fire the other.

PLEITGEN (on camera): They burned it?

SAADI: Burned it.

(SINGING)

PLEITGEN (voice-over): As we left Maaloula, a Christian song was playing on a loudspeaker system in the entire town --

(SINGING)

PLEITGEN: -- a sign of defiance from a Christian community that hopes the children, learning about their long heritage in Syria, will have a future in the land of their ancestors.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Fred is joining live from Damascus.

Fred, how serious is the threat against the Christian communities remaining inside Syria?

PLEITGEN: It certainly is very serious, Wolf, especially is you look at groups like ISIS. ISIS has essentially told the Christians here in Syria they have three options, convert to Islam, leave Syria or be killed. That's the three things ISIS put on the table for them. Then you have other rebel groups in Syria as well who accuse the Syrian Christians of siding with the Syrian government of Bashar al Assad. But the fact of the matter is most Christians aren't siding with any side. They simply want to be left alone. But they do see the old status quo as the best chance for survival.

At this point in time, we were in that ancient Christian community, they're remained defiant but there has been some attrition already. We were just seeing in that report that Maaloula is one of the last places in the world where they speak the ancient Aramaic of Jesus Christ. There was also an institute in Maaloula where they taught the Aramaic of Jesus Christ. That institute has now closed because the head of the institute has fled Maaloula.

So certainly, the Christian community here is already taking some hits, feeling the heat, especially from Islamist groups right now. They say they want to be defiant, but it's not easy for this very ancient religion in this land -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Can they get out? We know that hundreds of thousands of Christians, whether this Iraq, Syria, they fled. What about those who remain right now? What are the prospects of them fleeing, if you will?

PLEITGEN: Well, you know, it's difficult. Some of them certainly have already fled and some have fled their ancestral homeland, like Maaloula, and some come here to Damascus hoping to find a safer place here. And some, quite frankly, have fled the country. There are some organizations helping especially Christians to get out of Syria and get them to places line Europe or like the U.S. But certainly, it's difficult. And you know, if you look at the Christian community here, Wolf, they don't feel like they're guests in this land. They say they're an integral part of what makes Syria what it is, and so many of them don't want to leave at this point in time. But certainly, the prospects are dimmer with every day of the conflict, especially since there doesn't seem to be an end in sight -- Wolf?

[13:55:00] BLITZER: I think you are right, unfortunately.

Fred Pleitgen, excellent reporting for us from Damascus. Thanks so much, Fred.

A group of American heroes honored today by President Obama at the White House. Hear what he had to say about these Medal of Valor recipients.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: President Obama presiding over the Medal of Valor ceremony earlier today at the White House. The president honor law enforcement officers from across the country, several of whom suffered serious injuries while saving complete strangers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Not everyone will wear the medal that we give today. But every day so many of our public safety officers wear a badge of honor. The men and women who run toward danger remind us, with your courage and humility, what the highest form of citizenship looks like.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: One of the medals was presented posthumously to the grandmother of a Philadelphia police officer, Robert Wilson, who was killed in the line of duty.

The news continues next on CNN.