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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Kentucky and Oregon Primary; Trump Lawsuit Threat; New LBJ Film. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired May 17, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:08] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, everybody. Nice to have you with me. It's Ashleigh Banfield here. This is LEGAL VIEW. And we are halfway through election day in Kentucky. Whew. Democratic voters splitting 55 delegates between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders today in a state that went for Bill Clinton twice and favored Hillary over Barack Obama back in '08.

It's also Super Tuesday way out west in Oregon, but we can't show you the people voting there because Oregonians, that' what they're called, they vote via the mail. The mail system. Sixty-one Democratic delegates up for grabs in the great state of Oregon. Twenty-eight Republican delegates. And both states combined are not quit enough to put either party's frontrunner over the top. Yes, I know, you're kind of wondering, when is that going to happen already for heaven's sake. We do a lot of math, don't we? Clinton now stands 140 delegates away from the magic number. Trump, unopposed, just 80 - 80 delegates away from the magic number on the top right-hand side of your screen.

I am joined now by Brynn Gingras, who is live at a polling place in Louisville, Kentucky.

So, look, we keep watching and wondering. There's supposed to be some coronation, but Bernie Sanders keeps winning. What's the story in Kentucky? What's it looking like there?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ashleigh, it's an important state for Hillary Clinton and she knows it. She's been spending a lot of time here. She's been spending a lot of money here. Eleven campaign stops just within the last two weeks by Hillary Clinton. So that gives you an idea of how important it is to her. This, of course, while Bernie Sanders has been on a winning streak.

So she also just wants to break that streak up at this point here in Kentucky. And as you even mentioned, Ashleigh, historically, Kentucky is very favorable to the Clintons, both Bill and Hillary. So we'll see how that all plays out tonight.

But I do want to mention, here at this particular polling place in Louisville, we've talked to a number of voters. There are people who outright say, yes, I'm voting for Hillary. I've loved seeing her in our state this last few weeks. And then there are people who literally came through the doors today and were unclear if they were going to vote for Sanders or Hillary Clinton. That the decision was still up for grabs in their own heads. And so we're seeing a lot of that as well. So it certainly will be interesting once those polls close at 6:00 tonight.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I'll tell you what, folks in Oregon and Kentucky are glad they're still part of the process. This late in the game, they matter.

Brynn, thank you for that.

I want to take you to another state right now. They're not voting today, but something else went on there. And there's some fallout. Nevada, it held a Democratic and Republican caucus obviously for both parties back in February. You remember that, it's over. Clinton won the Democratic vote by 5 percentage points. And that translates to 20 delegates versus 15 for Sanders. With those super delegates, eight of them, that will largely break for Secretary Clinton. But it was nowhere near as simple as that just sounded. Take a look.

(VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So this is just last weekend. What? Last weekend? I thought this thing was settled. No. Nevada's Democratic Convention, the convention, ended up looking like this, complete chaos. Sanders supporters rose up after saying they felt shortchanged. Hotel security ended up clearing that room and now state party officials are filing a formal complaint with the rules and bylaws committee of the DNC.

If you thought that there was upheaval and unrest in the civil war going on with the Republicans, there's that to consider with the Democrats.

I want to bring in my think tank now. Angela Rye is a CNN political commentator, a Democrat and a former executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus. John Phillips in a radio talk show host and supporter of Donald Trump. And Rory Cooper is a GOP strategist and senior advisor of the Never Trump Movement.

Angela, first to you. Pictures like that do not look good and they catapult the Democrats into the same ugly headlines that the Republicans have been suffering over and over with the civil war over Trump.

ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Ashleigh, you're absolutely right. I think that this particular convention this past weekend is horrible to look at. I saw the complaint this morning, saw the letter written from the state party chair, general counsel, and I think that all of it is really unfortunate. I think the biggest challenge that Sanders supporters have, of course, they have every right to be frustrated by party rules that are fairly new to them, just like to their candidate. Of course, Bernie Sanders is a new Democrat and, of course, he's caucused with the Democrats for years in the Senate. But rules are rules. And the issue that remains is they have to be in a position to change them. And when you see scenes like this with threats of violence to their - to the party chair in the state and ongoing, like the list goes on and on, you have to at some point say, I want to be in a position to change these things later, whether you don't like the super delegate process, whether you think somebody else's vote should have count more than others, you can't change the rules by this sort of behavior.

[12:05:15] BANFIELD: OK.

RYE: It just doesn't work.

BANFIELD: So, there is this infighting. There's also the outfighting. And to that end, both Hillary and Bernie, you could say, have turned out were to fight Trump as well. And in the latest battle against Trump, Hillary Clinton's super PAC, Priorities USA, just released a series of ads and they are doozies. They feature actors - the first one at least features some actors wearing Trump images mouthing the words that Trump himself has uttered. I want to play a little bit and then I know you know it's coming to you, John. I'm going to get your - your take on this. So have a look at the ad first.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): You know, you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes. Blood coming out of her - wherever.

Does she have a good body? No. Does she have a fat ass? Absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So that's kind of uncomfortable. Now, Donald Trump himself has reacted with a tweet. One of the things that was said that we cut off was a "go f yourself" and Donald Trump tweeted this. "The pathetic new hit ad against me misrepresents the final line. You can tell them to go blank themselves was about China, not women." I think that is a really fair criticism that Donald Trump tweeted out today. The devil is in the details. And if he's going to be held to every single word that he utters, don't the Democrats have to do the same thing? And with that said, John, isn't this still a really uncomfortable ad to deal with?

JOHN PHILLIPS, TALK RADIO HOST, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I think it's a total waste of money. And I've seen this movie before. Right before the recall election in the state of California, "The L.A. Times" came out with a hit piece against Arnold Schwarzenegger, akin to what "The New York Times" just did to Donald Trump. They had ads that looked very similar to this talking about his relationship with women, and Arnold Schwarzenegger went on to win the election. It was an angry electorate that was looking for an outsider.

As we've seen time and time again, that's what's going on this election cycle. This ad would work against a Ted Cruz. This ad would work against a Jeb Bush. I don't think it hurts Donald Trump. I don't think Donald Trump's numbers are going to go down after people see this ad. Everybody knows that he had a scuffle with Megyn Kelly. Everyone knows that he called Rosie O'Donnell fat. They're not breaking any new ground here. And I think that the Hillary Clinton campaign is showing a strategic error here that they'll continue to repeat. And that is this. They're - they can hit the fastball and they're ready to hit the fastball, but Donald Trump is a curve ball and they don't know how to hit the curve ball. They don't know how to successfully launch attack against Donald Trump the same way that Jeb couldn't do it, the same way that Ted Cruz couldn't do it.

BANFIELD: So that's a great jumping off point for Rory, a never Trumper. Hillary Clinton has been doing some of the same work that the super PACs have been doing. Obviously they all would maintain that they work separately. But in Kentucky, Rory, she began imitating Donald Trump. This is something new we haven't seen on the campaign trail until now, but I want - and she's done it twice now in the last 24 hours or so. I might be off with the timing. But take a look at how she imitated Donald Trump while speaking to a group in Kentucky.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let's just imagine I'm on a debate stage with Donald Trump. Now, personally, I am really looking forward to it. So let's suppose, here's the question. So what is your plan to create jobs? His answer is, I'm going to create them. They're going to be great. I know how to do it. But I'm not telling you what it is I'm going to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: OK, Rory, you heard John say he's seen this movie before.

RORY COOPER, SENIOR ADVISER, #NEVERTRUMP: Right.

BANFIELD: Paraphrasing you, John. That this stuff does not work. Yet Hillary Clinton is going there. I know you're a never Trumper. I know there's a whole secretive movement to try to figure out something. But are you going to have to find it in the rule book if you want to stop Donald Trump because, like John just said, these things have been tried and they have failed.

COOPER: Well, yes, they have. Some of them have been tried. But albeit, actually, pretty late in the primary process. If you remember, Ashleigh, Donald Trump was relatively unscathed for most of the primary while the other 16 candidates generally aimed their fire at one another. It wasn't until really the never Trump movement actually began as a result of that vacuum that attacks like this started surfacing. And they did tend to draw some blood. If you look at Wisconsin, some of those women attacks did. And if you look at his poll numbers, you know, there actually isn't a lot of ground left to lose because he's at 75 percent disapproval.

And, Ashleigh, don't let - let me have the one opportunity to actually talk about the Democratic disarray for once too. If you look at what's happening in Nevada and with the Democrats on their side, you're actually looking at a very similar situation in the sense that very disaffected voters frustrated with Washington are upset with the establishment and the rules and they're taking it out on their frontrunner. And so what I think what we're going to look at is, in November, a lot of disaffected voters that are going to be hard to figure out where they're going to end up in the shuffle.

[12:10:18] BANFIELD: OK, real quick, I want to play something that Anderson cooper got exclusively last night on "AC 360." He got the interview with John Kasich. First time he's spoken since the race ended for him. And, of course, the big question was, would you consider a position of VP in Trump's administration. Here was the Ohio governor's answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR, "AC 360": Is that something you would consider? I mean during the campaign you said absolutely not.

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, I'm not changing my mind on that. I - look, I - I've said all along, I have the second best job in America.

COOPER: So if Donald Trump called you up today and said, look, you've got to do this. You've got to do this for the country.

KASICH: No, I'm not inclined to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: John, going to hit you up again. Ohio, Ohio, Ohio is the regular refrain of every election I have lived through in this country and covered in another country. Ohio's critical. And this governor says it's going to be hard without him.

PHILLIPS: Yes, everyone who hasn't been offered the job says they're washing their hair when they're asked about it by the media. I think his answer may change if he was actually offered the job by Donald Trump. And, look, I think the old rules don't necessarily apply in this new world. I don't think governors, I don't think senators certainly bring their home state. Mitt Romney didn't win his home state of Massachusetts. Paul Ryan didn't bring Wisconsin. Al Gore famously didn't win Tennessee. So I don't think that putting John Kasich on the ticket necessarily locks in Ohio. I think he needs to pick someone who will reinforce his image as an outsider.

BANFIELD: He won Ohio. It was the only state he won. Come on, Rory. I mean, gosh, you know, come on, John. Come on, Angela. Can't we all just agree?

COOPER: Well, look - I mean, listen - John Kasich is extremely popular in Ohio and would absolutely help the candidate, but there's a lot of Republicans who don't want to be tied to the character issues that are at the top of the ticket. And I expect John Kasich to be one of those people who can't put himself into the same column of lack of moral leadership that Donald Trump exists in.

BANFIELD: Last, quick comment, Angela.

RYE: Oh, yes, I totally agree with Rory. We're - I'm never Trump with you, I'm just not never Clinton, like you probably are.

COOPER: That's right.

RYE: And I think that, you know, this - this - this election is very interesting. It's been that interesting this far. I think that the reality of this priorities ad is they have to do a lot more like this. BANFIELD: All right.

RYE: I think Donald Trump cannot run away from his words, so we have to hold him and his supporters to them.

BANFIELD: Great to have all three of you. Thank you, Angela. Thank you, Rory. Thank you, John. Appreciate all three of you being with us.

COOPER: Thanks, guys.

PHILLIPS: Thank you.

BANFIELD: And, by the way, we're going to cover these primaries all day long, so make sure you stay right here. Our special coverage from Washington begins 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

And coming up next, will "The New York Times" issue an apology to Donald Trump and retract a front page story about him? Trump and his lawyers are talking libel, and that's what they want. But is it anything more than just talk, or have they got something? That's coming up, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:16:54] BANFIELD: One of Donald Trump's attorneys is now backing off a threat to sue "The New York Times" over that front page article about his behavior towards women. Another Trump attorney suggested yesterday that Trump might sue. And, today, Michael Cohen, the executive VP and special council for the Trump organization, says a lawsuit is unlikely, but that "The New York Times" offers - owes Donald Trump an apology for that piece. He also wants "The Times" to retract the story which, by the way, "The New York Times" says is not happening. This isn't Donald Trump's first tangle with the media. Here is what he said at a rally in Texas in February while complaining that news outlets only show crowds at his rallies if there's a protester.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And one of the things I'm going to do, and this is only going to make it tougher for me, and I've never said this before, but one of the things I'm going to do, if I win, and I hope I do, and we're certainly leading, is, I'm going to open up our libel laws so when they write purposefully negative and horrible and false articles, we can sue them and win lots of money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Joining me now to talk about his, CNN legal analyst and defense attorney Danny Cevallos, and David Schwartz, a defense attorney, former prosecutor, whose firm does legal work for Donald Trump periodically.

So, Danny, I thought the rule book on this thing was actually written in a "New York Times" lawsuit. Somebody tried suing "The New York Times" before and that ended up setting the law of the land on this one. DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It did. "New York Times" v.

Sullivan created the standard for public officials. And then a later case called Butts applied that also to public figures. But the standard is essentially the same. There must be, number one, a false statement, but, number two, the speaker, when it's a public official or public figure, has to show that the statement was made with knowledge of its falsity or with reckless disregard as to its truth. And that's a very high standard for public figures to meet. And that's why a case like this, a defamation case, would be very difficult. To say nothing of the fact that defamation cases often open up that discovery in the civil context to parts of a case in someone's life that they just may not want exposed.

BANFIELD: So, David -

DAVID SCHWARTZ, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I mean, heck, the first things that came out from Trump's legal representatives we're, we're going to sue. This is a liable. We're going to open up the liable laws. There's been a lot of bluster -

SCHWARTZ: Yes.

BANFIELD: You've got to admit, on the First Amendment. The First Amendment's one of the strongest things this country has going for it.

SCHWARTZ: Absolutely. And so are lawsuits. So it has to be challenged. So to use the First Amendment the way "The New York Times" has used the First Amendment in such a reckless disregard for the truth.

BANFIELD: Which part was reckless and which part was (INAUDIBLE)?

SCHWARTZ: Oh, well to take -

BANFIELD: Which part wasn't true?

SCHWARTZ: To take pieces of statements -

BANFIELD: Which part wasn't true?

SCHWARTZ: To take - to take pieces of statements and to put them together to create an article that Donald Trump is a womanizer, is an abuser of women, is a reckless disregard for the truth. And let me tell you, and Michael Cohen made it clear, they're probably not going to sue on this. However, if there was a lawsuit, it needs to be challenged. It need - this malice standard needs to be challenged.

[12:20:04] BANFIELD: This sounds almost like, if I want an apology and I'm going to drag you into the headlines for it knowing full well that this would be the kind of lawsuit you could - I mean, it would be dismissed.

SCHWARTZ: You know what, I'm not so sure about that. There seems to be such malice on the part of "The New York Times" when I believe -

BANFIELD: You really believe malice?

SCHWARTZ: I believe that.

BANFIELD: The story also pointed out negatives and positives. People - women who said he was a great boss.

SCHWARTZ: They - they -

BANFIELD: How could you say there was malice?

SCHWARTZ: They owe Donald Trump an apology for this. This is a - this is a hit -

BANFIELD: That's something else.

SCHWARTZ: No, it's not to this.

BANFIELD: Danny, could they actually sue for an apology?

CEVALLOS: Well, first of all, the courts have said that you don't - you can't just take snippets out of context from a publication. You must look at the publication as a whole.

BANFIELD: In context.

CEVALLOS: Right. So, I mean, to find what statement constitutes a defamatory statement, you still have to prove the falsity. And, you know, while David is right, there have been socialistic arguments as to whether or not that standard is simply too high for public figures in a modern Internet Twitter age.

BANFIELD: Yes.

CEVALLOS: But the fact remains that that is what the standard is. And there's only a couple of ways to overturn that Supreme Court precedent.

BANFIELD: I have to leave it there, guys, I appreciate it, but it's not over yet.

SCHWARTZ: OK.

BANFIELD: The conversation isn't over yet and we're going to see if there actually is a lawsuit, which you have to come back and talk about.

SCHWARTZ: We will talk about it.

BANFIELD: Thank you, David Schwartz. Good to have you back. And, Danny Cevallos, as always, thank you.

Up next, from breaking bad to breaking news and the one and only Bryan Cranston is going to grace the set again. He's back in house to tell us all about this latest transformation, bringing LBJ back to life. I cannot wait to ask him about it. And the amazing parallels between 1964 and this year's incredible presidential debate. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:26:09] BANFIELD: Just in time for the 2016 race, there's a brand new HBO movie which examines President Lyndon Johnson's turbulent first year in office. "All the Way" is based on the Tony winning Broadway play. And in the role of the 36th president, one Bryan Cranston. No, that's not LBJ back from the grave, but it's pretty darn remarkable. Cranston channels LBJ as the film delves into the 1964 presidential campaign, which is eerily similar to this primary season. Also deals with Johnson working with Martin Luther King Jr. on passing the Civil Rights Act. A quick scene right now about that partnership. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRYAN CRANSTON, ACTOR, "ALL THE WAY": Every year my cook, Zepheria (ph), oh, best damn chicken fried steak you ever put in your mouth. Well, every year, she and her husband drive my Packard (ph) from Washington back down to the ranch for me. Well, now Zepheria, she can't use any restrooms on those highways because they're all whites only. She got to squat in a field by the side of the road to pea like a dog. Now that's just not right and by God we're going to fix that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, nothing in this country will ever change until Negros can vote.

CRANSTON: The next bill will be voting rights.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After President Kennedy's election, Eisenhower publicly declared that his party had taken the negro vote for granted. I would hate to see the Democratic Party make the same mistake.

CRANSTON: If you think Barry Goldwater's a legitimate heir to Abraham Lincoln, you should vote for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Unreal, yet again. Bryan Cranston is joining me now.

BRYAN CRANSTON, ACTOR: So good to see you again.

BANFIELD: It's great to see you. And I still marvel at your chameleon- like skill. I mean that is freighting.

CRANSTON: I don't know if it's skill or if it's just what I was born with. I have two facial qualities that i share with LBJ, thin lips and beady eyes. Two things that every man wants to have.

BANFIELD: They're working for you, Bryan.

CRANSTON: Yes.

BANFIELD: They're working - so what I wanted to know, though, is that, look, you started with the Broadway play long before we knew Donald Trump was going to be in this election and that we would have these bizarre parallels between the '64 Barry Goldwater versus LBJ election -

CRANSTON: Yes.

BANFIELD: And the Donald Trump versus pick your two candidates election.

CRANSTON: Right.

BANFIELD: And, actually, I want to just go through a really quick list. They were both considered outsiders, Goldwater and Trump. The GOP movements against the candidates were pretty robust. There's a never Trump and there was a stop Goldwater.

CRANSTON: Uh-huh.

BANFIELD: Trump/Goldwater controversies involved the KKK.

CRANSTON: Yes.

BANFIELD: And the Democrats mounted a campaign to convince the on the fence Republicans. And here you are with this movie launching in the middle of it all. Did you have any idea that you would have this bizarre precions (ph) and that you'd just sort of landing -

CRANSTON: No. No.

BANFIELD: That we'd demanding (ph) LBJ answers from you?

CRANSTON: No. No. No one could have predicted the incredible presidential race that we're looking at right now. All we were doing, when we were making "All The Way" - by the way, that was Anthony Mackie, who plays Martin Luther King in the - in the clip. He's (INAUDIBLE) terrifically - is - is the story of how the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was able to be forged in turbulent times during the Jim Crowe laws of the time that were, you know, very difficult to grow up and in this country if you were an African-American. And within six months of ascending to the presidency, he, along with a lot of other senators and congressmen and Martin Luther King were able to make this a reality. And it changed the face of the country. And it's really a great story.

[12:29:55] BANFIELD: So little known fact or maybe just to me, but just two weeks ago I saw you in Washington and you were fresh off the heels of an Oval Office visit with the president of the United States. Walking into the real Oval Office, having spent, what, I don't know.