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Hillary, Bernie Split Primaries; Trump Unveils Potential Supreme Court Nominees. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired May 18, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:02]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Eleven people on the list here, possible nominees in the event Mr. Trump is elected president.

So, let's bring in first up Sara Murray, who has been looking through some of these names, before we bring in our panel.

And, Sara Murray, important to point out, as you have, that some of these names match what we have seen from the conservative think tank in Washington the Heritage Foundation, names they floated this past spring.

SARA MURRAY, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brooke.

He -- Donald Trump released 11 names. I think roughly five of them have been floated by the Heritage Foundation before.

And some of these name, Diane Sykes, William Pryor, Don Willett, these are all names that a lot of conservatives are very comfortable with, that you would have seen from other potential presidential candidates.

And so I think what this is, it's Donald Trump trying to send the signal that he will be conservative if he's elected president. He will elect a conservative to the bench and trying to maybe allay some of the fears of supporters potentially of Ted Cruz, for instance, who were really hoping to elect someone who has shown conservative principles in the past.

I think Trump and his campaign know that not everyone in the Republican Party are totally comfortable with him. Obviously, we have seen some people state that publicly, and so this is sort of a way to help rally people behind him.

And, Brooke, the other thing I want to mention is not all of these justices have had friendly things to say about Donald Trump in the past. Some of them have private connections to, you know, the never Trump movement, to people who have supported opponents of Donald Trump in the primary.

And so it says that, you know, it's not just about loyalty for Trump when it comes to nominating someone to the bench like this, that he is looking at people's credentials, and I think that is going to sort of help maybe send a little bit of calm to some conservatives who had been a little skeptical of Trump.

BALDWIN: And also, having just spoken to Dana Bash, noteworthy, you know, when we were covering the big meeting in Washington between the speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, and Donald Trump last Thursday, this was a crucial part of that conversation on, you know, which justice, what sort of justice Mr. Trump would nominate if he were to become president.

Sara Murray, thank you so much.

Let me bring in some legal voices here to walk us through all these different names, because I know a lot of you have no idea who these people are.

So, I have constitutional attorney Page Pate standing by and CNN contributor and American University law professor Steve Vladeck.

So, gentlemen, Page, let me begin with you, as we haven't heard from you yet. I understand that you know William Pryor. He's one of these 11 names. You know Mr. Pryor quite well. Who is he?

PAGE PATE, CONSTITUTIONAL ATTORNEY: Well, I have been in front of Judge Pryor several times. I'm not a personal friend of his, but I certainly know his judicial philosophy and his temperament.

He's a reliably conservative judge, by all accounts. In fact, you may recall that his appointment to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals here in Atlanta, which is where he currently sits, was somewhat controversial itself. He was President Bush's choice, but he was not unanimously confirmed. In fact, it was pretty close as to whether or not he would even get that seat, but since he's held that seat, he's been very conservative.

And I think this is someone that the far right would certainly be comfortable with as a nominee.

BALDWIN: Steve, can you chime in? Who are these other names?

STEVE VLADECK, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Sure.

I think what's interesting about this list is these are in some cases state Supreme Court justices. So, Tom Lee, Don Willett, folks like that, David Stras, these are three Supreme Court justices who have very strong reputations, very consistently reputations.

Ariane mentioned right before the break that the Supreme Court right now is mostly former federal appeals judges. Having those three names on the list might be a suggestion that a President Trump would look to the state courts as well.

And, Brooke, of note, Tom Lee is Senator Mike Lee's brother.

BALDWIN: Aha.

VLADECK: And so when it comes to a potential Senate confirmation process, you know, that can't hurt. BALDWIN: And, Steve, just staying with you, you know, what sort of

message -- you made -- you made an excellent point earlier. You were saying to me essentially the list is tantalizing for conservatives, right, but in no way might this list be binding, meaning this is who Mr. Trump is floating right now.

If he were to become elected president, that doesn't necessarily mean that he would go with any of these names.

VLADECK: Yes.

No. There's nothing that requires him to. And, indeed, Brooke, even if he were to put one of these names forward, there's nothing that requires him to keep with it if he changes his mind. So I think what we're seeing here is actually a very shrewd political move by Mr. Trump in basically giving them all of this red meat to conservatives who might have been very concerned about his candidacy and saying, look, you can trust me. These are the kinds of people I want to put on the Supreme Court in Justice Scalia's seat.

We heard Josh Earnest talk about how there's a real contrast between this list...

BALDWIN: Actually, on that, let's go to that sound. Thank you for bringing that up, Josh Earnest at the White House just a little while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I would be surprised if there are any Democrats who would describe any of those 11 individuals as a consensus nominee, but the individual that President Obama has put forward is somebody that Republicans have described as a consensus nominee.

[15:05:02]

And I think that speaks to the wisdom of the Senate acting on the president's nomination, and I think it speaks to the president's commitment to fulfilling his constitutional responsibilities to fill a vacancy on the Supreme Court in a way that is consistent with his desire to protect the Supreme Court from the kind of partisan wars that it's been subjected to of late.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, to your point, Steve Vladeck, this is the White House quickly coming out and reminding everyone that the president would like Judge Merrick Garland, who they consider a consensus nominee, unlike, they're saying, this list.

VLADECK: Well, indeed. I think we have statements from people like Utah Senator Orrin Hatch, who has said that someone like Judge Garland is eminently confirmable.

And I think there's a really sharp contrast between someone like Merrick Garland, who is really is a centrist, and the names on this list. If I look at this list, I look 11 dyed-in-the-wool conservatives who really are the exact kind of judge that I expect most conservatives would like to see replace Justice Scalia.

You know, the real question is, is this just Donald Trump placating the conservative base of the Republican Party or is this really what he wants in the next Supreme Court justice?

BALDWIN: Sure, true follow-through, true to form, in terms of listening to Republicans he met with on the Hill last Thursday.

Page, here's my question to you. Sara Murray and others have been reporting that maybe approximately five of the 11 here were floated from the Heritage Foundation. Would Donald Trump have spoken with any of these folks before making this list public?

PATE: I think that's a possibility, Brooke. We know that he mentioned Judge Pryor's names during one of the debates right after Justice Scalia died, so we know he's been thinking about at least that name and perhaps a couple others for a long time.

I think it would be unusual, though, for the judges to engage in any discussions about a possible nomination at this point, especially the ones that serve on the federal courts of appeal. It's possible the state court judges may have talked with him, but I think it would be unusual if he's actually had any sit-down meetings or discussions of any significance with these other folks.

BALDWIN: All right, Page Pate and Steve Vladeck, thank you both so much.

VLADECK: Thank you.

PATE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Let's talk Democrats now, shall we? It now seems they have their own party unity problem, and the chair of the Democratic National Committee admits a divided party plays right into Republicans' hands.

Democratic leaders are demanding that Senator Bernie Sanders take control of his supporters, confront their behavior after what happened in Nevada, the Democratic Convention in that state that spiraled into chaos.

Furious Sanders supporters say Democrats are essentially stealing the election for Hillary Clinton, some issuing death threats to state party leaders, but Sanders' campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, telling CNN today that the blame should be placed elsewhere.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF WEAVER, BERNIE SANDERS CAMPAIGN MANAGER: He categorically -- categorically condemns any kind of threats that went on, absolutely unacceptable. You know, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, we could have a long conversation

just about Debbie Wasserman Schultz and how she's been throwing shade on the Sanders campaign since the very beginning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Senator Dianne Feinstein just issued this warning to the Sanders campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: How much does it worry you that he wants to take this to the convention in July?

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, it worries me great deal. I don't want to go back to the '68 convention, because I worry about what it does to the electorate as a whole, and he should, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, that's one piece of this. The second piece is that Senator Sanders just won the Democratic primary in Oregon and lost Kentucky to Secretary Clinton by a razor-thin margin. He holds another California rally in just a couple of hours in San Jose.

CNN's senior political correspondent, Jeff Zeleny, is there.

Jeff Zeleny, how is California?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: California is great. It's hot, Brooke, and that's not even including the politics.

I can tell you, several hundreds, probably a couple thousand by the time they all gather here, are here in San Jose on a very warm day. But the tensions are not really apparent here at Sanders rallies as much, because they are such true believers. They clearly want to have their say and their voice.

And it's important to point out no one is asking Bernie Sanders to get out of this race. The Clinton campaign is not. The Democratic National Committee is not. There are some worries, though, about things he's saying. And, Brooke, I can tell you last night at his rally in Los Angeles, he was going after Hillary Clinton harder than we have heard him in quite some time here.

So the question is how he lands this plane, how he brings this into a close here, but Bernie Sanders has not yet addressed any of, you know, what happened in Nevada directly on camera, taken our questions about that. He may today, but his campaign is still saying he's focused here on rallying his supporters, Brooke.

But that's what a lot of these Senate Democratic leaders are waiting for, for Bernie Sanders to address it.

[15:10:08] But, Brooke, the White House, I think, had a bit of perspective on

this. Josh Earnest said earlier, look, this is not that much different from 2008. There were tensions between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. They think this will all blow over. They think Donald Trump will unify the party.

That's probably right, Brooke, but I can tell you, some of these Sanders supporters are angry at how they believe they have been treated here. So, the next three weeks are very important in terms of how this party starts coalescing, how it starts coming together -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK, before Bernie Sanders lands his proverbial plane, to quote you, Jeff Zeleny, thank you.

We have much more to discuss, so let me bring in former Ohio State Senator Nina Turner, who has endorsed Bernie Sanders.

Nina Turner, nice to have you back.

NINA TURNER (D), FORMER OHIO STATE SENATOR: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: So, let's just begin, before we get into Nevada, I want to talk Kentucky, because she barely won, and I understand the Sanders campaign is looking into whether they want to ask for a recount in Kentucky. What do you know about that?

TURNER: I mean, it was like watching a tennis match, Brooke. I'm sure you probably were watching last night. He was up. Then the secretary was up.

You know, you really couldn't keep up with that, but I think because that was so close, rightfully so, the campaign should look into that. But I'm going to tell you something that really does trouble me, Brooke, to have the current secretary of state in Kentucky come out and endorse a candidate, and I would say the same thing, even if she endorsed Senator Sanders, because I ran for secretary of state in 2014 in the great state of Ohio.

And I believe that a secretary of state that has to administer elections should be above the fray and should not be in the business of endorsing any candidate. You might remember what happened in Ohio in 2004, when we had then Ken Blackwell, Secretary Blackwell as our secretary of state, and he was on a committee for then President Bush.

So, secretaries of state should be very, very careful about what they do and how they do it, especially when they are the chief elections officer. That troubles me more than anything.

BALDWIN: So, that's secretaries of state. What about chairs of state parties? I was talking to the chairwoman in Nevada, who was telling me yesterday on live TV -- you know where I'm going.

TURNER: Yes. I do.

BALDWIN: She's getting these threats. It was chaotic in Nevada just a couple of days ago. Senator Sanders was on that stage in Southern California last night. I understand his frustration and that of his supporters, you know what, they feel like that the Democratic Party is subverting them and favoring Hillary Clinton.

But do you agree with the way that Senator Sanders responded? Should he have said more?

TURNER: I mean, the senator was very clear, Brooke, and he's been clear from the beginning that he does not support violence or disruptions.

He believes that everybody should have their right to exercise their First Amendment right, but for people to overlay, and I really do believe that the DNC overreacted, because they never once tried to get the other side of the story. They just went based on what the Nevada party put out, but I was there, Brooke.

I'm not Monday-morning quarterbacking. I was there in that room, and I stayed in that room for about eight hours, so certainly I can't speak to what happened when I was not in the room, but I can tell you that Senator Sanders' supporters -- and this wasn't a rally. This was a convention. I want your viewers to understand this very clearly.

It was a convention. Delegates were there for both the secretary and also for the senator. Yes, Senator Sanders' delegates believed that they were cheating and they made it known in a democratic way. There was no violence when I was in the room. There were no threats when I was in the room.

Certainly, some of them did boo our senator from California, which I -- Barbara Boxer, which I think is wrong, but there were no threats at all, and so to overlay violence, to misrepresent Senator Sanders' supporters like that, Brooke, I think is wrong.

BALDWIN: So, I'm with you on exercising the right within the First Amendment, but is there not, Nina, a difference between promoting that among supporters and acting like a leader? Is Senator Sanders acting like a leader with now worries that what happened in Nevada could happen in Philadelphia?

TURNER: He has, Brooke. He absolutely has.

And, again, when Senator Sanders office was shot up in Nevada, I didn't hear a three- or four-day news cycle. The difference between people leaving voice-mails, and we don't even know really if those people are supporters of Senator Sanders -- which the Senator Sanders has said is -- that is absolutely wrong. I say it's wrong.

You don't threaten the chairwoman. You don't threaten her family. We can't tolerate that in a civilized society, but let me be clear here. No one knows whether or not those calls were made by so-called Senator Sanders supporters. So, that's number one.

Number two, the senator has been very, very clear throughout this process that that type of behavior is not acceptable, but he cannot control grown folks who decided, and they were not violent, Brooke, and I resent the fact that the media keeps trying to paint those folks as violent. Those were teachers up there. They were nurses up there.

(CROSSTALK)

TURNER: They weren't violent.

BALDWIN: I think they think that just when you see the chairs, when you see the chairs in someone's hand getting thrown. That's, I think, where the word violence is coming from.

[15:15:03]

TURNER: Brooke, listen, all can I do is speak to when I was in the room. So, I'm not going to talk about what happened when I was not in the room.

BALDWIN: I understand. I understand that.

TURNER: But there were no chairs thrown. Nobody picked up a chair, but people were frustrated, because I was there for the roll call vote, and it was clear that the nos had it, but the chairwoman, instead of doing the right thing, she went in the other direction, and then she stopped debate on the issue.

That is undemocratic. And folks want to talk about democratic -- I'm talking about democratic with a small D, which means that we listen to everybody's voice. And taking a page from Stephen Covey when he said, first seek to be understand and to be understood, to me, that's the fundamental part of what is missing here, that everybody involved in this process, but especially those folks who have titles in front of their names, should seek first to understand and then to be understood.

But to malign a whole group of folks, Brooke, does not make a whole lot of sense, especially since the secretary is the nominee.

TURNER: I understand. They are going to need those supporters.

BALDWIN: That is most excellent. That's the whole other conversation that we're going to have down the road, but we know that Jeff Weaver, Nina, we know the campaign manager on Senator Sanders' side, Jeff Weaver, he said that Debbie Wasserman Schultz, the chair of the DNC, that she was throwing shade, his phrase, on the campaign. And this is what -- this was her response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ (D), FLORIDA: My response to that is #SMH, if we're going to talk about that comment about throwing shade. We need to focus on one thing. Get through this primary and work to prepare for the general election.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Is it time for another phone conversation with Senator Sanders at this sensitive moment?

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: You know, I don't think that I need to have another conversation with Senator Sanders at this moment. I think I need to focus on moving us forward, on making sure we can prepare for the general election, on making sure that I can manage this primary effectively.

There are numerous members, Senator Sanders' colleagues, Barbara Boxer, Leader Reid both spoke with him. There's no reason for me to pile on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Nina, is your party at war?

TURNER: Brooke, there is some discomfort going on in the party right now. That doesn't mean that it's going to be forever, but we can't put our heads in the sand to pretend like all is well.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Is this helping Donald Trump, Nina?

TURNER: Not at all, not at all. A robust debate within the Democratic Party is just that, and just as in 2008 Secretary Clinton stayed in the race all the way to the end, Senator Bernie Sanders has made it clear from the beginning of this process that he is in it to win it, and as he said last night in his statement that he's staying in this race until every last vote is counted.

But let's talk about what's really going on here, as you said, razor- thin victory for the senator in Kentucky. Senator Sanders won in Oregon. Maybe might it be that Senator Sanders consistently staying in this race is exposing that indeed he is the best and strongest candidate to go head to head with Mr. Trump in the general election?

That might be the issue why folks are trying to push him out, because they might be saying with their words, oh, no, Senator Sanders don't get out of the race, but all of their actions in and around this particular primary is very much saying to him that he should get out of this race. But news flash, he's not going anywhere.

BALDWIN: I hear you loud and clear. Nina Turner, thank you so much. Thank you.

TURNER: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And just a programming note for all of you, as we have heard from Senator Sanders, we will be hearing from Hillary Clinton tomorrow live in the 1:00 hour. Chris Cuomo will be interviewing here, so don't miss that here on CNN.

More breaking news, Donald Trump arriving at the residence of former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, a meeting presumably to discuss foreign policy, this happening after Mr. Trump unveiled a list moments ago of 11 potential Supreme Court justices that he, you know, would vet and nominate should he become a president.

So much to talk about on this Wednesday. Don't move.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:23:12]

BALDWIN: Moments ago, here you have the video, Donald Trump arriving for a pretty mega-meeting with a foreign policy heavyweight. We're talking about former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who served during the Nixon administration.

Kissinger helped lead the thaw with U.S. relations with China back in the '70s, among many other things he was involved in.

Let's talk about this all over with CNN presidential historian Douglas Brinkley and Council on Foreign Relations senior fellow Gayle Tzemach Lemmon, author of "The New York Times" bestseller "Ashley's war."

So, welcome to both of you.

And let's start with this Kissinger-Trump meeting, Gayle. So, we know Mr. Trump has officially arrived at Kissinger's home. What else do we know?

GAYLE TZEMACH LEMMON, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Well, we know that they have been talking for weeks.

We know that this follows on the heels of a meeting with James Baker, the former secretary of state, and in some ways I think what's most surprising is that you see not really that Kissinger would take the meeting, but that this insurgent candidate would embrace really wholeheartedly the most I think reigning of the Republican elder statesmen on foreign policy, the person who really embraces the realism school of thought on American foreign policy, with which Donald Trump seems to agree.

But really that the insurgent candidate would embrace the reigning, you know, foreign policy elder statesman of the Republican establishment is what I think is among the most interesting things of today's meeting.

BALDWIN: All right. So Gayle is surprised on the embracing there.

Doug Brinkley, I mean, you called Kissinger in the commercial break the pope of foreign policy. This is sort of the proverbial kissing of the ring en route to a potential presidency. Are you surprised by it?

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Not a bit surprised. That's exactly what Donald Trump needs to do now. He's the presumptive Republican nominee and you have to meet people like Baker and Kissinger.

[15:25:00]

I mean, Kissinger was very opposed to Trump saying there would be a ban on Muslims.

BALDWIN: He was very critical of Mr. Trump. BRINKLEY: And Kissinger last year wrote a wonderful and important book on China, so Trump has a lot to learn from Henry Kissinger, but showing the respects, keeping the channel open and it sends a broader message to the American public. Trump is not pigheaded or stubborn.

If he's president, he's willing to listen to people that he respects, and in the Republican world, Henry Kissinger is one of the great statespersons. He's like Dean Acheson or George Shultz.

So, you have got to go meet him. I think Trump did the right thing.

BALDWIN: On the point of message, like what message this sort of sends, Gayle, let me pivot back to you, because we have also been in the last hour the breaking news that we know that Donald Trump has now floated this list of 11 young conservative potential justices to replace Antonin Scalia, which perhaps, too, would be, you can call it a stunt or you can it truly Mr. Trump listening to Republicans and conservatives and wanting them to coalesce behind him in order for him to be elected.

What do you make of that move?

LEMMON: Well, I mean, you said the word pivot, right? It's the normalization of an insurgent candidate, and I think you see this started -- why a lot of people were talking about the foreign policy speech that was a few weeks back that was really named at foreign policy elites, but at convincing people that he did listen, as Doug was saying, right, to people who have foreign policy experience, that he wasn't going to be unpredictable in ways that he didn't want to be. Right?

He talks about a foreign policy of unpredictability, but he wants to be seen as presidential, and I think all of this is a move towards that direction.

BALDWIN: Chime in on just the justices. You know, apparently maybe about half of them were recommended some months ago by the conservative Washington think tank the Heritage Foundation, the fact that can you even recall, Mr. Presidential Historian, any such candidate on either side of the aisle when there had been a vacancy on the highest court floating a list like this?

BRINKLEY: Yes, floating my who's-who list.

But what he has to do is get conservatives to back him, and the one thing Trump is promising all real conservatives is that I will get you the Supreme Court justice that you want. These are the people that, as you mentioned, Heritage Foundation, and he did it geographically. It's great interesting.

One is from Missouri, one from Texas, one from Pennsylvania, so all those local newspapers tomorrow will be saying we have a potential Supreme Court justice in our backyard. It's good politics and it particularly is doing what Paul Ryan would like him to do in the sense of an olive branch to the hard right. I might be going in directions you're uncomfortable with, with minimum wage or with, you know, going after Wall Street a little bit, but trust me, on the core issue of a constitutional lawyer, I'm in the tank with the hard right.

BALDWIN: This was an important piece of the conversation when Mr. Trump was meeting with Speaker Ryan on Thursday, as per Dana Bash's reporting, so this is Trump listening. The question is if he's elected, where is the -- is there follow-through.

Gayle Lemmon, thank you so much. And, Doug Brinkley, appreciate you as well.

BRINKLEY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Next, a divided Democratic Party. Our own Van Jones says the party chair is not helping. We will talk to Van live about this war, if you want to call it that, within the party and why Dems should not underestimate Donald Trump.

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