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Clinton Barely Wins Kentucky, Sanders Takes Oregon. Aired 2-3a ET
Aired May 18, 2016 - 02:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[02:00:00] JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: And, Don, thank you very much. We'll let you guys go off to church.
ISHA SESAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Yes, indeed. Thank you, Don.
And welcome to Los Angeles where we continue our live coverage of the Oregon and Kentucky primaries.
VAUSE: Well, for the Democrats, a split decision. Hillary Clinton by a nose edging out Bernie Sanders in Kentucky's primary with less than 2,000 votes. A razor thin win, which breaks a string of recent losses.
SESAY: Sanders does get the win in Oregon, though, with 53 percent of the vote right now.
Here's the big picture for you, the delegate count. Clinton is now 89 shy of locking up the Democratic nomination. But Sanders says he's not done yet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We won a great victory in the state of Washington a few months ago. We just won Oregon.
(CHEERS)
And we're going to win California.
(CHEERS)
I am getting to like the West Coast.
(CHEERS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: Well, let's turn it over to the Republican side. Donald Trump edging closer to the magic number of delegates. The win in Oregon with 66 percent of the vote as of now. John Kasich and Ted Cruz both far behind at 16 percent.
VAUSE: Trump is now just 62 delegates away from the 1,237 he needs to officially clinch the party's nomination.
Trump tweeted this message to his supporters, "Congratulations to the movement. We have just won the great state of Oregon. The vote percentage is even higher than anticipated. Thank you."
SESAY: Joining us now is CNN's senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny, who is traveling with the Sanders campaign.
Jeff, a mixed night for Bernie Sanders. A win in Oregon but a defeat in Kentucky. However, judging from Senator Sanders' comments there in Carson, California, tonight's results haven't altered the dynamics of this race and no one should be holding their breath for him to drop out soon.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: You're absolutely right about that. I mean we heard a defiant Bernie Sanders tonight. He split the delegates in Kentucky. He won in Oregon. So, he leaves tonight with more delegates than he started.
The math hasn't changed, though. Hillary Clinton still has a commanding lead going into the final month of contests. But Bernie Sanders indicated that he's going to keep fighting. He's going to keep fighting for California. He's going to keep fighting until every last vote is counted. And I heard a more defiant Bernie Sanders tonight. He said Donald Trump needs to be defeated, but he also said Hillary Clinton needs to be defeated.
So, there was no unifying this Democratic party tonight here in California.
VAUSE: Jeff, I'm just curious. We have thousands and thousands of supporters there at that rally there for Bernie Sanders. And as you mentioned, the math hasn't changed. It's still practically mathematically impossible for Sanders to win the nomination. Has that registered with those voters, or do the still think that Bernie Sanders is in there with a chance that he could end up being the Democrat nominee?
ZELENY: John, it definitely has not registered with him. I think you can say he is not exactly helping them make this register. He is saying that, you know, he will go to the end.
And no one is saying that he shouldn't. Even the Clinton campaign is, you know, saying he has the right to stay in. But I think he can make the argument that he is not exactly leveling with his supporters here about how difficult this is.
And it's not just about the super delegates, those party officials we talked so much about. It is actually in pledged delegates. There are not enough pledged delegates remaining in the final month here for him to overtake Hillary Clinton. Super delegates would have to change their mind in droves here. So, you can make the argument that he's not leveling with his supporters.
VAUSE: Jeff Zeleny, thank you for being with us. We appreciate it.
SESAY: Thanks, Jeff.
VAUSE: Well, joining us now, as they always do on big night on politics, Democratic strategist Dave Jacobson and Republican consultant John Thomas.
OK, the big race tonight. There hasn't been a finish this close in Kentucky since Grindstone won the derby in a photo finish back in 1996. The Clinton campaign, they spent a lot of money there. They outspent Bernie Sanders. Hillary Clinton spent a lot of time in the state.
She won the statement overwhelmingly in 2008 by 30 points. Tonight, by 0.5 percent. It's not exactly what they would have been hoping for, Dave.
DAVE JACOBSON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: No. I mean, Bernie Sanders is giving her a run for her money. I think it's really a testament to the fact that people are angry. They're frustrated. And his message is continuing to gain momentum.
He was here in Los Angeles this evening. He turned out 11,000 people.
You know what that means, John? That means the Democrats are not done with this race. They want the primary to continue. You've got Montana. You've got the Dakotas, New Mexico, California, New Jersey, and people want to express their frustration with the system and the fact that he believes that the system is rigged.
[02:05:01] And he's tying the Democratic primary to Wall Street and what's going on in Washington with the status quo being broken. And his message is resonating.
JOHN THOMAS, REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT: Well, you know, what it also means -- it means the Democratic base isn't in love with Hillary Clinton. The fact is they can't consolidate behind one candidate and that doesn't bode well, because goes by, Trump is working day by day to consolidate his base, start throwing grenades over to Hillary. And Hillary is still fighting from the left.
SESAY: Well, let's talk about the issue of unite then in the Democratic Party. As we know Hillary Clinton didn't speak tonight. She put out a tweet, and she said this. She said, "We just won Kentucky. Thanks to everyone who turned out. We're always stronger united."
The issue of unity being invoked there. That was picked up by the Clinton campaign, Robbie Mook putting a statement saying, "We are confident that the passion and energy from the primary will be united in a common purpose to move forward the ideals of our party and keep the White House out of Donald Trump's hands."
Now, this invoking of unity of course referencing what we saw in Nevada. We saw those ugly scenes in the convention there. They may be calling for unity, but the question is, is that slipping out of reach? I mean, I've got to ask you that, Dave. JACOBSON: Well, I don't think so. If you go back eight years ago
when Hillary Clinton was campaigning still in May, polls were showing 40 percent of her supporters said they weren't going to support Barack Obama. Only 25 percent of Bernie Sanders' supporters are saying that. So we're in a much better position this time.
But I do think it is a point of concern that there is violence spurring at some of these Bernie Sanders rallies. It's not equal to what we saw at Donald Trump's campaign with that happened at every corner of the country, but it's something we've got to watch out for.
THOMAS: I think part of the big story is if you look at the right direction/wrong track direction of the country across the partisan divide, nearly 60 percent of the people in America think we're on the wrong track and Hillary Clinton has largely positioned herself as Barack Obama's third term. That's problematic as we go into a general election.
VAUSE: Hillary Clinton is staying away from the violence and chaos in Nevada. She's leaving the talking to senior Democrats, in particular the party chairwoman, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and she was stinging about Bernie Sanders. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ (D-FL), DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIR: Unfortunately, the senator's response was anything but acceptable. It certainly did not condemn his supporters for acting violently or engaging in intimidation tactics and instead added more fuel to the fire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Is patience running out with Bernie Sanders? I mean is he going to Don Coyote to Ralph Nader?
JACOBSON: Right. He's fanning the flames. I mean, the reality is this was supposed to be a coronation. We're supposed to be done after Iowa. Hillary Clinton is supposed to lock this thing up. Now, we're going all the way to the convention, right?
We're not even just going to California on June 7th. We're going to the D.C. primary the next week.
THOMAS: What a difference a couple weeks makes because a couple weeks ago, my side was preparing the right gear for their convention. Now, it's going to be more of a beauty pageant than it is on anything. On your side, on the other hand, it's dangerous.
SESAY: And to that point, let's listen to the man himself, Bernie Sanders, as he talks about his determination to stay in this race. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: Many of the pundits and politicians, they say Bernie Sanders should drop out.
(BOOS)
The people of California should not have the right to determine who the next president will be.
(BOOS)
Well, let me be as clear as I can be. I agree with you. We are in until the last ballot is cast.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: All right. The question has to be, what logic is he operating under right now? I mean we know the math. We say this -- I mean, it's been a long time that this race has been set with it looking improbable that he could get the nomination. So, what logic is he operating under where he thinks that he could still pull this out of the bag?
THOMAS: You know, there is an open investigation with the FBI, and I'm not just saying that as a partisan hack. There is a theory in which -- you know, there is a theory in which she could be pulled out of this race. So, he's staying in this as long as he can.
And quite frankly the more the Wasserman Schultz and the establishment rallies for Hillary and against Bernie, it reinforces his message.
JACOBSON: Right. And, by the way, you know, with the FBI investigation, it's like the gift that keeps on giving to the Republicans, right? You've got these warmed over talking points that continue to be repeated. But I think it is an issue.
I think that's part of the reason why he's staying in the race. Who knows what's going to happen on that front? But, look, I think ultimately, he's trying to revolutionize the political process. Overall, all across the country on both sides of the aisle but particularly with the Democratic process, he's really got an issue with these superdelegates and that independents can't participate in the process. He wants to make the Democratic Party more open and accessible and inclusive, and I think that's what he's going to drive home at the convention is changing the process, reforming the superdelegates and allowing independents to participate in the process.
THOMAS: While it doesn't look like Sanders is going to be the nominee and it is scary to Republicans that a socialist could be our president, all of our Republicans are high-fiving each other going Bern, baby, Bern. The longer this stretches out, the better our chances are.
[02:10:01] VAUSE: Listening to Bernie Sanders, and, you know, maybe I'm reading way too much into this because I've listened to so many speeches by Bernie Sanders. But in that sound bite we just heard, he finished by saying until the last ballot is cast or counted. I mean he always used to say until the conventions. I mean, are we now looking at a situation where he is just going to
the last primary and then he's done? We're not going to have any problems at the convention?
JACOBSON: It's possible. There was a story actually this week that came out in "Politico" that said that some people within the Bernie Sanders campaign, actual staffers and volunteers and supporters said he needs to dismantle his campaign immediately after the voting is over and figure out how he can best help the Democrats prevent Donald Trump from winning in November. So, there's talk and there's rumblings of that, but we haven't seen anything concrete yet.
THOMAS: You're also seeing some staff defections in different parts of the Sanders campaign. So, I think the rosy picture they're trying to portray at these rallies looks great for TV. Internally, I imagine these campaigns are in a much different situation.
SESAY: We've got to talk about the long-awaited interview between Donald Trump and Megyn Kelly that aired tonight on the Fox Network. Finally sitting down and, you know, a lot of interest in how this would play out, the dynamics and what would emerge.
One of the things that was striking about the interview is that Donald Trump expressing some level of regret, if you will, about statements he's made regarding women including Heidi Cruz and Carly Fiorina. Take a listen to a little bit of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEGYN KELLY, FOX NESS ANCHOR: Let me just give you a list of a couple and tell me whether you have any regrets on it. The comment about John McCain. You prefer people who weren't captured. The comment about Carly Fiorina's face.
But do you regret any of those comments?
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, I guess so. But you have to go forward. You make a mistake, you go forward, and you -- you know, you can correct the mistake. But to look back and say, gee, whiz, I wish I didn't do this or that, I don't think that's good. I don't even think in a certain way, I don't think that's healthy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Do you know what this is like? This is like Arthur Fonzarelli. I was -- wrong.
SESAY: Just a smidgen of regret.
VAUSE: Just say it. I was wrong.
THOMAS: This is as close to an apology as we're ever going to see from Donald Trump, and quite frankly, kudos to him. He's making leaps and bounds in this process.
VAUSE: OK. We also have -- (CROSSTALK)
THOMAS: He's come a long way.
VAUSE: It's all relative, I guess.
THOMAS: From a guy who wouldn't even apologize to his mother, now he's saying he regrets a thing or two.
VAUSE: OK. On the issue of women, Donald Trump's got a long way to go to make up for his high negatives with women. So he did have an endorsement of sorts from his wife, Melania. She did an interview with "Du Jour Magazine".
This is what she said, "We know the truth. He's not Hitler. He wants to help America. He wants to unite people. They think he doesn't, but he does. Even with the Muslims, it's temporary."
OK. So out of this, what? He's not Hitler? This is not exactly the kind of ringing endorsement you need, is it?
THOMAS: I'm not sure people thought he was Hitler, so I'm not sure why she had to say that. That's a little odd.
JACOBSON: He has been called a tyrant, but --
THOMAS: Right, right. But the fact even his wife is recognizing he has ground to make up. And I think his wife and his daughters are going to be excellent surrogates as we go through this process.
But we're starting to see it. He sat down with Megyn Kelly night. We're going to see he's got to make up ground because, look, he's going to win this election because he turns out angry white men at the end of the day. But he can't hemorrhage women like is happening today.
SESAY: Take a step back and think about the moment where your party's perspective nominee has been compared to Hitler.
VAUSE: By his wife. Having to -- Louis C.K., the comedian --
(CROSSTALK)
THOMAS: Now, maybe our own spouses are a different thing, but we're used to that treatment, yes.
VAUSE: We'll see you next hour. Thanks for being with us.
A short break here. When we come back, Bernie Sanders says he wants a revolution, but it seems like things could throw the national convention into chaos. We'll talk to Sanders campaign manager.
SESAY: Plus, Donald Trump and FOX News host Megyn Kelly go head to head in a sit-down interview. Why some are questioning if their feud was ever real.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:18:04] VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody.
An easy win for the presumptive Republican nominee in Oregon. Donald Trump got 66 percent of the vote. Even though they've suspended their campaigns, John Kasich followed in second place. Ted Cruz in third.
SESAY: And a razor thin win for Hillary Clinton in Kentucky's Democratic primary. Clinton beat Sanders by less than 2,000 votes. Bernie Sanders was the winner in Oregon with 53 percent of the vote right now.
VAUSE: CNN senior reporter for media and politics, Dylan Byers, joins us right now.
Let's talk more about this Megyn Kelly interview. It was really hyped. Everybody was looking forward to it, I guess.
SESAY: You weren't?
VAUSE: OK. So one of the key crucial questions in this interview was all about how this feud began with that question from Megyn Kelly to Donald Trump in the FOX News debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: I thought it was a fair question. Why didn't you?
TRUMP: I thought it was unfair. I thought -- first of all, I didn't think it was really a question. I thought it was more of a statement.
That's the first question that I've ever been asked during a debate and I've never debated before. My whole life is a debate, but I've never actually debated before.
I'm saying to myself, man, what a question. Then, of course, then you have Brett doing his thing. So, I'm saying to myself, I've got two hours of this?
I don't really blame you because you're doing your thing. But from my standpoint, I don't have to like it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: A softer, kinder, gentler, more, you know, nicer Donald Trump. I mean, it was kind of a love fest, really, wasn't it?
DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR REPORTER FOR MEDIA AND POLITICS: Yes, a softer, kinder, gentler Donald Trump, and also a softer, kinder, gentler Megyn Kelly. I think that what Megyn Kelly is in a debate where she's questioning these candidates is different than what she does on her FOX News show is different than what she's trying to do here.
And what she's trying to do here, as she stated herself is create this sort of Barbara Walters, Oprah Winfrey type atmosphere where she can have these really sort of powerful groundbreaking one-on-one interviews.
[02:20:02] The problem is the expectation going into this was a continuation of this feud, which has really defined what Donald Trump's relationship with the media has been about for the last nine or ten months. And if you were looking for that, you weren't going to find it in this interview.
SESAY: That being said, as you bring up the names Barbara Walters and Oprah Winfrey, you were expecting some revelation. You were expecting to learn something new. Did we get that here because, I mean, did we get anything new from this?
BYERS: No, I don't think so. You know, some people look and see Donald Trump sort of saying, well, I regret, you know, maybe I regret saying one or two things, and we think we're getting a closer look at his personality. We're really not. What we're seeing Trump do is charging ahead through whatever controversy happens, through whatever question gets asked and just sort of progressing.
This is really interesting because Megyn Kelly is trying to get at Donald Trump's temperament. This "New York Times" piece is trying to get at who is the real Donald Trump? What is Donald Trump's temperament?
We have spent ten months with this guy and we still don't have a theory of the case about who he is or what he's about or what drives him. The most we can say is he wants to win. You know, we're not even sure he got into this election to win it.
I think the media right now, now that we're pivoting toward the general election, now that we're accepting he's going to be the Republican candidate, we're trying to answer that fundamental question. Who is he underneath this whole sort of bravado and facade? And I don't think this interview got at that, and I don't think anyone's got at that.
VAUSE: It was interesting because after the interview was done, Trump tweeted this photograph out, all smiles, and he wrote this. "Well, that is it. Well done, Megyn, and they all lived happily ever after. Now let us all see how the movement does in Oregon tonight."
Some people have made the observation that, you know, this alleged feud between Megyn Kelly and Donald Trump is just a con job.
SESAY: Do you see it that way?
BYERS: I think it's hard to say that Roger Ailes, the chief of FOX News, and Donald Trump and Megyn Kelly sat down in a room and said, all right, let's see how we can further all of our careers. Now, that said, everyone has benefited from this.
I don't think Megyn Kelly particularly enjoys the amount of, you know, like threats she's received from Donald Trump's core supporters. But her career has skyrocketed. She's in a position now where she can be angling for a Barbara Walters or Oprah Winfrey type position, and Donald Trump has benefited because he's going to be the nominee of the Republican Party.
So, yes, it's sort of hard to -- I'll tell you this as a media reporter, to have been covering this for nine or ten months and every time Donald Trump sends out a tweet or FOX News responds, the feud is kicking up again when really they're playing off each other and building each other up.
SESAY: Trump was asked effectively what this all would mean if indeed he didn't go ahead and win this race. I want you to take a listen to what he said because I thought it was interesting. Let's see when Trump responded to that question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If I don't go all the way and if I don't win, I will consider it to be a total and complete waste of time, energy, and money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: What do you make of that considering some people said he never got into this thinking he could win anyway?
BYERS: I think if you were going -- you see it in sports all the time. If you're going to get in a game, you have to believe you're going to win and say you're going to win. Anything less -- Donald Trump is a winner, that's what he -- or at least he broadcasts himself as a winner. You have to convince the American people. You have to leave no doubt that you are in this for real.
VAUSE: This is extraordinarily to say of a candidate, but you know, it's nothing, so thanks for your support, but it was nothing.
BYERS: You know, it's not totally dissimilar from what Ted Cruz has said when he was on his heels from Iowa to later states when he had to say, look, if we don't win here, everything we've worked for is gone. He will be singing a different tune if he loses the election.
SESAY: Just as you said, for Megyn Kelly, there have been up sides. There would be upsides for Donald Trump, I mean, even if this didn't go his way.
BYERS: Oh, huge upsides. If you look at what President Obama said at the White House correspondents' dinner when he was sort of needling the press, he said all this guy wanted to do was boost his hotel brand, and you guys gave him nine or ten months of free coverage.
There's no question this has been great for Trump's brand with no however many million voters who have voted for him.
VAUSE: Dylan, good to see you. Thank you.
Short break. When we come back, a big win in Oregon and a tight finish in Kentucky. Despite the odds, Bernie Sanders says he's not giving up. His message to his supporters is just ahead.
SESAY: Plus, he's facing pressure to rein them in after an ugly weekend in Nevada. What his campaign manager says about that.
Do stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:28:02] SESAY: Hello, everyone. Donald Trump adds to his delegate count with a predictable win in Oregon. He came away with 66 percent of the vote. John Kasich and Ted Cruz follow with 16 percent.
VAUSE: Donald Trump just 62 delegates away from officially clinching the Republican nomination. Kentucky's neck and neck Democratic primary ends with a cliff-hanger victory for Hillary Clinton. She won the state by almost half a percentage point. A win is a win, slowing Bernie Sanders' momentum.
SESAY: Well, Sanders defeated Clinton in Oregon's primary with 53 percent of the vote right now.
On the delegate count, Clinton is now 89 shy of locking up the Democratic nomination.
Well, more fallout from that ugly scene in Nevada when Sanders' supporters shut down the state Democratic Party convention. They thought they didn't get the delegates they deserved, and they were outraged.
VAUSE: So, the Nevada party has filed a formal complaint and Democratic leaders are worried they will see chaos like this at their national convention in July.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
VAUSE: Jeff Weaver, campaign manager for Bernie Sanders, joins us now from Burlington, Vermont.
Jeff, thanks for being with us.
JEFF WEAVER, CAMPAIGN MANAGER FOR BERNIE SANDERS: My pleasure.
VAUSE: There's a lot of pressure on Senator Sanders from senior Democrats for him to rein in his supporters after the violence in Nevada. Why hasn't he done that yet?
WEAVER: Well, I think it's an overstatement to say there was violence in Nevada. There was obviously a lot of chaos at the Nevada state convention. Bernie Sanders has said categorically he condemns any kind of violence or threats that were made against anybody.
But people have to understand what went on in Nevada. There was a process that was put in place that was clearly geared to sort of create a one-sided outcome. There were voiced votes on the floor which were overruled by the chair, and it became -- it sort of broke down. Once it became very clear, I think, to people that there was not going to be fairness at that convention.
[02:30:00] VAUSE: Look, no one would ever question the right of people to, you know, to ask about the rules, to argue about process. This is politics.
But you did mention the Democratic chairwoman for Nevada. Her name is Roberta Lange. She says she's been inundated with death threat. She's received vile, abusive voicemail and text messages.
This is what she said to CNN earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTA LANGE, NEVADA DEMOCRATIC PARTY CHAIRWOMAN: I get threats every one to two seconds on my phone, on my e-mail, on Twitter, on Facebook. It is endless. In fact, it has gotten worse as time goes on, and it -- you know, it's awful. They've attacked my work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: I also want to play for you one of those voicemail messages because many of the others just aren't suitable for air. Listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SANDERS SUPPORTER: Hi, Roberta Lange. This is a citizen of the United States of America, and I just wanted to let you know that people like you should be hung in a public execution to show this world that we won't stand for this sort of corruption. I don't know what kind of money they're paying to you, but I don't know how you sleep at night. You are a sick, twisted piece of (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and I hope you burn for this. You cowardless (EXPLETIVE DELETED) running off the stage. I hope people find you.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VAUSE: So, I imagine the Sanders campaign would at least condemn that type of behavior. I'm wondering if anybody from the campaign actually managed to reach out and apologize.
WEAVER: Of course, categorically.
We categorically reject and find unacceptable any kind of behavior like that, whether it's violence or threats of violence or vulgarity that you heard in that phone call. That's absolutely unacceptable in any context. So I don't think there's any disagreement about that certainly.
VAUSE: Do you think someone from the Sanders campaign should reach out to Roberta Lange and apologize for the Sanders supporters have been doing to her? Because there's been a lot of threats. There's been a lot of text messages.
WEAVER: Well, we certainly -- as I said, we condemn it. The senator has said he condemns it 100 percent. What we are concerned about obviously is to make sure this type of thing does not happen or continue to happen.
In addition to that, we want to make sure that we -- people are aware of what happened in Nevada at the state Democratic Party. There was a horrendous breakdown, where the leadership there in Nevada hijacked the process on the floor, created a tremendous amount of angst among people who were there attending the convention, who were supporters of Senator Sanders, by ignoring the regular procedure and ramming through what they wanted to do. It was -- in terms of a Democratic exercise, it was pretty much a disaster.
VAUSE: One last thing about the Nevada caucus. Joan Kato, your national delegates director, she seemed to be encouraging supporters to take over that event before it started. This is what she said to them.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JOAN KATO, SANDERS CAMPAIGN NATIONAL DELEGATES DIRECTOR: You should not leave. I'm going to repeat that. Unless you are told by somebody from the campaign, i.e., probably me or David, that you can leave, you should not leave. I don't care if the chair is up there herself or whoever the chair is and whoever becomes the chair, you should not leave.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VAUSE: So in hindsight, was that perhaps not the best thing to do?
WEAVER: In fact, that conclusion that you came to, that that somehow is taking over the convention, apparently you aren't as familiar with how these caucuses work. That is a very standard part of the process. What you don't want your people to do is leave prematurely because, often there are recounts during these caucuses, and if your people leave and first you're winning and then you're losing.
That is a very standard instruction that are given to delegates at caucuses, to not leave until the campaign says it's okay to go. It has nothing to do with taking over the convention. That kind of conclusion about what that means, I think would only come from somebody who is not all that familiar with how this whole process works.
So that is a very standard sort of instruction that's give to delegates at a caucus. Don't leave because votes are taken and there are often revotes. Of course if your people leave, you'll lose the revotes.
VAUSE: Finally here, there was a poll out today. It shows Senator Sanders a clear favorite among Democrats to be Hillary Clinton's running mate, assuming, of course, that Mr. Sanders doesn't win the nomination. If Bernie Sanders is asked, would he accept?
WEAVER: I think he's running for the top spot at the moment. So I think that's what the goal is and that's what the focus is right now.
VAUSE: And with that, we wish you good luck. Thanks for being with us, Jeff.
WEAVER: Thank you, sir. SESAY: Very interesting interview.
VAUSE: No apology.
SESAY: Notably.
All right. Time for a quick break. Donald Trump and the RNC have a new partnership on fund-raising. We'll talk about what it means for the future of the Republican Party.
VAUSE: Also ahead, Trump sits down with FOX News' Megyn Kelly. A question that seems to embarrass the usually blunt Republican candidate, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:38:25] SESAY: Welcome back, everyone.
Hillary Clinton picks up a hard fought win in the U.S. presidential race. It was a nail biter, narrowly defeating Bernie Sanders in Kentucky's Democratic primary by just half a percentage point.
VAUSE: Sanders did get the win in Oregon with 53 percent of the vote.
On the Republican side, Oregon goes to Donald Trump. The presumptive nominee wins the state's 66 percent of the vote. And John Kasich and Ted Cruz follow, though they both dropped out of the race, of course.
And joining us here in L.A. is James Lacy, the author of "Taxifornia" and supporter.
VAUSE: And in Sacramento, California, Republican strategist Rob Stutzman with the Stop Trump campaign.
Rob, first up to you, the Trump campaign put out a statement that says it's now working with the party to actually start raising money. This is what they said. "By working together with the RNC to raise support for Republicans everywhere, we are going to defeat Hillary Clinton, keep Republican majorities in Congress and in the states, and make America great again."
Does that essentially signal the surrender of the Republican National Committee to the Trump campaign?
ROB STUTZMAN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: What a relief to hear all that. Well, look, the committee has surrendered several weeks ago after the Indiana primary. And I don't find a lot of fault with Chairman Priebus doing what essentially he's been elected to do, which is to put the apparatus to the party for use for the nominee of the party. And that's what he's doing.
Obviously, though, throughout the Republican world, there remains a lot of hesitation, apprehension, if not outright defiance if Trump is the nominee.
SESAY: So let me ask you this. [02:40:01] And, James, to you, does this now send a signal to major
GOP donors that it's time to open up their checkbooks.
JAMES LACY, AUTHOR, "TAXIFORNIA": Yes, I think it does, but I don't think that's anything unusual. I mean Republican donors are just biting at the bit for the opportunity to get involved in this race.
SESAY: Big donors have been sitting it out.
LACY: Well, I think Sherman Adelson, who is a big donor in Las Vegas, said the other day he was willing to put up $100 million to help Donald Trump get elected president.
SESAY: Do the Koch brothers now get involved?
LACY: The donors are going to be coming in. What I find more amazing is that Rob Stutzman is still with the Stop Hillary campaign. It must be pretty lonely up there in Sacramento. I don't know how many people you can get to go to your meetings.
Look, the California Republican Party is filing in behind Trump, as is the rest of the nation, and I do think that the fundraising agreement that was signed today shows Donald Trump's commitment to the Republican Party. We're all in the same boat is what he's saying.
VAUSE: Rob, just to pick up on something that James just said, is it time to think the unthinkable and actually go out there and vote for a Democrat, Hillary Clinton?
STUTZMAN: Well, no, I won't be. I think there's some Republicans who are considering that. I think this is truly an election where you have two unsuitable choices for president leading the two major parties.
And I'm not alone. I think there's a lot of us that are saying it's perfectly okay for Republicans. The party of Lincoln and Reagan and Eisenhower to be concerned that someone who is not fit to be president of the United States is going to be the nominee of our party. That also is taking policy positions that are absolutely antithetical to why most of us are Republicans.
So, look, this isn't going to go away. We're not trying to get Hillary Clinton elected either, but there is certainly a principled okay position for Republicans to settle into for the future of our party to not participate in this and vote for Donald Trump.
VAUSE: James, I want to put this to you, because a lot of Republicans especially on the foreign policy side, they are the ones especially worried about Donald Trump, especially when he says things that are off the cuff like he said to the "Reuters" news agency, that if he was president, he would actually go out and talk to the North Koreans.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: I would speak to him. I would have no problem speaking to him. At the same time, I would put a lot of pressure on China because economically we have tremendous power over China. People don't realize that.
REPORTER: But you say you would talk to Kim?
TRUMP: The one -- I would speak to him. I have no problem with speaking to him.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VAUSE: You know, talking to Kim Jong-un would be rolling back decades of foreign policy. Even Trump's main security adviser says Donald Trump needs to learn how complex the world is.
LACY: Yes, but our foreign policy has been a complete disaster, and it's been a complete disaster under the Democrats. You know, when Jimmy Carter ran for president in 1976, one of his campaign plans was to remove U.S. troops from South Korea.
Then when Clinton was elected, who did he appoint to go and negotiate a nuclear disarmament treaty with North Korea? Jimmy Carter. Jimmy Carter went to Korea, he negotiated with the North Koreans, and what happened? He came back with a nuclear disarmament agreement that allowed the Koreans to have all the nukes they need to have.
Now, the Democrats have screwed up this policy. I don't think Donald Trump could do worse. In fact, I think Donald Trump could bring something fresh to this relationship and maybe get something done on it. But the Democrats have been the disaster on North Korea.
STUTZMAN: Jim, do you agree on disbanding NATO? Should we disband NATO?
LACY: No, it's not -- it's not dismantling NATO, and you greatly misstate his positions on these issues. What Trump has said --
STUTZMAN: Which is?
LACY: -- is that NATO -- can I talk? What Trump -- you're asking me a question. Let me respond.
What Trump has said is that NATO has come to a point where it has outlived its usefulness as the old NATO because NATO's a creation of a Cold War era that's done. There is no communist government that's in charge in Western Europe. The only communist government is in China. That doesn't affect NATO.
The problem that we have now is security. We have all of these problems with international terrorism and with radical Islamic terrorism in Western Europe. He wants to look into an international organization that not only has NATO's capabilities but that focuses on the real problems.
SESAY: OK.
VAUSE: We'll have to leave that. We didn't get to the question which embarrassed Donald Trump, but we'll get to it last hour.
SESAY: I think we'll call this round a draw between you two. I think it's like round 15 between you and Rob.
VAUSE: Rob, come back next hour. We'll take a short break.
Bill Clinton campaigning for Hillary Clinton, but one question that seems to follow him and it dates back to the 1990s.
SESAY: Plus, a woman in Virginia wasn't happy in either presidential candidate. What she chose instead when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. We want to take a look now at the matchup for the general election between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.
Joining us now for more on that, Democratic strategist Matthew Littman, and Peggy Grande, a former assistant to Ronald Reagan.
SESAY: Welcome.
VAUSE: Thanks for joining the late, late, late show.
Donald Trump tweeted this out today. Quote, "I look so forward to debating crooked Hillary Clinton. Democratic primaries are rigged. E-mail investigation is rigged. Time to get it on."
Matt, out of all the 17 Republicans who began this race, is Donald Trump the one who is most likely to get under Clinton's skin?
MATTHEW LITTMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: As for getting under her skin, yes, definitely. That one, I'll say yes. I don't think that his twitter strategy is going to be as effective as it was in the primary. There are about six times as many voters in the general election as there was in the primary and I think Trump is going to have a tougher time. He's going to enjoy himself and send out these tweets. Not much we can do about it.
SESAY: Peggy, did you have concerns about that, a nominee who seems to focus on the fireworks as opposed to detailed policy discussions?
PEGGY GRANDE, FORMER ASSISTANT TO RONALD REAGAN: Well, it's playing the media really well and it's playing into this presidential cycle just perfectly. He seems to be playing the game really well right now.
VAUSE: As someone who worked for Ronald Reagan and all these comparisons with Donald Trump and Ronald Reagan, how does that sit with you?
[02:50:06] GRANDE: You know, certainly there are so many things that are different about them. But I believe that they're both talking right to the people. They're not talking above them or beneath them. They're talking right to them and something about their message is resonating. And Ronald Reagan in 1976 and 1980 both was seen as an outsider and would not have been who the party would have chosen.
SESAY: Will it be enough to focus just on the insults? I mean going into --
VAUSE: And the angry white man.
SESAY: -- going into November?
GRANDE: I don't think that's going to be enough, but I think that people are very captivated by the insults and the tweet a I think we as a nation need to move past that on both sides of the party. I think there's more that unites than divides as a party and a nation.
LITTMAN: Let me speak to that for one second. You worked for Ronald Reagan, and I remember my wife was -- I think she lived in Panama when Ronald Reagan was president. One of the things she talked about is the very positive message that Ronald Reagan provided that made her love the United States just hearing Ronald Reagan talk.
Donald Trump is like the opposite of that. And that is something that I think is going to lead to his losing in this campaign. But I think his message is the opposite. I think as a Reagan person, you'd be very distressed hearing Donald Trump's message.
VAUSE: One thing I'm wondering because Bernie Sanders is still in the race here. He's still attacking Hillary Clinton, and Donald Trump is using a lot of what Bernie Sanders is saying to also go after Hillary Clinton. As an independent voter, when you hear one side of the political spectrum say one thing and the complete opposite say the same thing, doesn't that tend to stick? Is this Bernie Sanders you know causing damage for Hillary $ Clinton?
LITTMAN: I think at this point I'm not too thrilled with the Bernie Sanders message at this point. I think it's -- this idea that the votes are being taken away from them, which Donald Trump mentions in his tweet, is ridiculous. I mean Hillary is beating him by millions of votes.
And I think that Bernie Sanders has to tell his people that this is not rigged. He's losing, and he's going to lose fair and square. That's the way it goes, and he's going to lose.
There aren't new rules for the Democratic primary, but he wasn't a Democrat until now. Maybe he didn't know the rules. I think you had Weaver on before. This point is off.
I do think they're harming Hillary to an extent, and they need to -- look, I understand Bernie Sanders has a lot of money and a lot of supporters. Why would he want to go back to the Senate and hang back with Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz? I understand. At this point, this party has to come together and Bernie brings to bring the party together.
SESAY: Bear in mind, he's given no indication that he plans to drop out or change any of his messaging. How does the Clinton campaign minimize the damage that's being done? Is there anything they can do?
LITTMAN: Listen, we have a few more primaries to go. We've got California on the 7th, and Hillary does need to at some point reach out to the Bernie supporters and reach out to Bernie and bring them into the fold. It is incumbent on Bernie to talk to his supporters to get them in. It's also incumbent on Hillary to talk to the Bernie supporters and get them in. She needs the Bernie supporters.
VAUSE: OK. Hillary Clinton called Bill Clinton her not so secret weapon on the campaign trail. Take a look at this. This was the former president campaigning in Puerto Rico today.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
REPORTER: Mr. President, do you want to respond to Donald Trump today calling you one of the worst political leaders in U.S. history?
BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: No, I won't. I think people are smart enough to figure this out without my help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: So, Peggy, do you think Donald Trump has effectively neutralized Bill Clinton now because everywhere he goes, he's going to be asked, are you the worst president for women ever?
GRANDE: Well, women are not seen as a voting bloc, I don't think. I think there's a lot of women who support Donald Trump. There's a lot of women who don't support Hillary Clinton. So, to categorize us and speak for women in general, either side of the story is not going to be effective, I don't think.
SESAY: Do you think anything should be off limits in this race? I mean, as Donald Trump brings up the indiscretions of former President Clinton? Is that fair game in your view as someone who's worked in this business?
GRANDE: Well, if he's going to be out on the campaign trail speaking on behalf of his wife, then I think he's fair game. If he chose to sit on the sidelines, maybe we'd be having a different conversation. But in the world of social media, truly, everything's on the record.
VAUSE: Very quickly, Megyn Kelly spoke to Donald Trump tonight and she specifically asked him about, you know, being called a bimbo. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You would be amazed at the ones I don't re-tweet.
KELLY: Bimbo?
TRUMP: Well, that was a re-tweet, yes. Did I say that?
KELLY: Many times.
TRUMP: Oh, OK. Excuse me.
KELLY: What do you think with --
TRUMP: Not the most horrible thing. Again, politically, not the most -- over your life, Megyn, you've been called a lot worst.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: You've been called a lot worst.
LITTMAN: I don't know how much worse she's been called. Let's remember that Donald Trump has a 70 percent unfavorable amongst women. The thing he said about Heidi Cruz, the things he said about Megyn Kelly.
[02:55:05] He yelled at a woman for breast-feeding in front of him. He talks about wanting to date his daughter.
I mean, I don't think numbers among women are going to be going up very much.
VAUSE: Peggy, quickly.
GRANDE: But at the same time, there are so many things that are more important than this. We need to be talking about our national security. We need to be talking about the sovereignty of our borders. We need to be talking about jobs and the possibilities for the future.
So I think there's more agree upon than we disagree on.
VAUSE: We'll see. Peggy and Matt, thanks for being with us.
LITTMAN: Thank you.
GRANDE: Thank you very much.
SESAY: OK. Well, here's proof that some people don't like any of this year's presidential candidates. This yard sign, "Everybody sucks 2016," is getting a lot of attention.
VAUSE: The homeowners in Kansas say it's a joke. But now, people are slowing down, they're honking. They're taking pictures. You can buy bumper stickers and hats and everything.
And a Virginia woman decided to voice her political opinions from beyond the grave. Mary Anne Noland's obituary published on Monday states that when faced with the choice of Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton, she chose death, the eternal love of God.
SESAY: Noland's husband says the obituary was meant as a joke and a way to continue his wife's sense of humor.
VAUSE: That's a pretty good joke.
SESAY: Yes.
Well, thank you for watching our special coverage of the Oregon and Kentucky primaries. I'm Isha Sesay.
VAUSE: I'm John Vause. We'll be back with another hour of live news from Los Angeles. You're watching CNN.
