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EgyptAir Flight 804 Crashes into Mediterranean Sea; Aired 9- 9:30a ET

Aired May 19, 2016 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

[09:00:13] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. And I want to welcome our viewers from around the world.

A plane vanishes from radar off of Egypt's coast and we're now learning new details of the final moments before that plane apparently plunged into the Mediterranean Sea. Greece's government was tracking this flight. It says the plane was at cruising altitude. It had just entered Egypt's air space when it suddenly swerved 90 degrees to the left. And then it swung wildly to the right, doing a full 360 degrees circle. The plane plunged from 37,000 feet to 15,000 feet. Once it dropped to 10,000 feet, Greece lost it from radar.

And just moments ago, Egypt's government in charge of the investigation says terrorism is more likely to blame than any technical failure.

This is what we know right now. The Paris to Cairo flight had 66 people on board. Air traffic controllers in Greece say the EgyptAir pilots did not respond to their calls during the last 90 seconds of the flight. That flight vanished from the radar, 173 miles off of the Egypt's coast. The problems emerged at 37,000 feet. Aviation experts say that this is the safest part of the flight because the airliner is at cruising altitude. It's under much less stress.

We're bringing you all of the latest developments with our correspondents and aviation experts across the globe. But let's begin with CNN's Nic Robertson in London.

Tell us more, Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, Carol. The very latest information we have coming in from Greek authorities is that some debris, two pieces of debris, have been spotted, 50 miles southeast of the site where the aircraft disappeared off the radar. It is not concluded yet whether these two pieces of debris are related to the aircraft, but it is in the area of the search. This is something that's coming from Greek authorities.

This needs to be further confirmed and clarified and run down, but this is the -- this is the first indication we've had of any debris spotted in the search. We know that the Greek aircraft, Greek naval vessels, Egyptian aircraft, Egyptian naval vessels are jointly involved in scouring the Mediterranean Sea for debris. It's been about 13 hours now since that aircraft went down. So that operation has been underway for a long period of time already.

The indications concerning authorities that while the Greek authorities, aviation authorities were trying to talk to the pilots of the aircraft after they -- as they were -- as they were moving between Greek and Egyptian airspace, the pilots were not responsive to Greek authorities. They had been responsive a few minutes earlier, at the same time the aircraft was noticed going into that very troubling maneuver. 90 degrees sharp turn to the left, 360 degree sharp turn to the right, but at the same time, losing thousands of feet and altitude and then disappearing from the radar, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Nic Robertson, reporting live from London.

I want to bring you now to Cairo's international airport. That's where Ian Lee is now. As you might expect family members are there. They're desperate for any word on this flight.

Ian, what are officials telling them?

IAN LEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, officials -- when we're talking to family members, officials are not giving them much information, about the same as we're receiving. But one thing that is a bit different than what we heard from the minister of civil aviation, still saying that this isn't a crash, that the plane has disappeared, but when they're talking to the family members, they have a different story, saying that the plane actually did hit the water in the Mediterranean, and that's what we're hearing from family members, although, of course, they're quite distraught here.

They want to know what happened. They want to know what caused . They want the same answers that we want, and there is some frustration with them, with not receiving these answers fast enough. But of course, this is an investigation just in the preliminary stages, and we did hear from the minister of civil aviation, Sharrif Fahit, saying that it is more likely to be terrorism than being -- than being mechanical. So that is something that they are going to be looking into now.

It is a bit of a shift in the focus of the investigation where it is going to -- where it is going to go from here. What happened at the airport in Charles de Gaulle, all a lot more questions now. But also, the investigation, the search, still continuing.

COSTELLO: All right, Ian Lee reporting live from Cairo.

[09:05:02] We want to talk more about this with our panel of experts. With me now CNN safety analyst and former FAA safety inspector, David Soucie. He's also the author of "Malaysia Airlines Flight 370." I'm also joined by Mary Schiavo, a CNN aviation analyst and former inspector general for the U.S. Department of Transportation.

Thanks for being here.

So, David, when authorities say it's more likely terror than a technical problem, why do they think that?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, the fact that there was no response back from the requests for information from the airline itself, and the fact that the flight profile doesn't match anything that would be done by intent, I think that they're right on with this, and if you know me from before, you'll say that I'm the last person to go towards terror or intent, but in this case, the profile looks as though they're correct on that.

COSTELLO: So, Mary, we know the plane took a sharp turn to the right and then a sharp turn to the left. Air traffic controllers while it lost contact with the pilot just as they passed into Egyptian airspace. What does that tell you?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, unfortunately, and going back to other crashes that I've worked in the past, when it makes a 360-degree turn as it is losing altitude, usually what that signifies is that the plane is tumbling or it has lost its lift, meaning it has an aerodynamic stall, and it falls, it kind of falls flutters like a leaf. So a 360-degree turn, with a fall from 37,000 feet to 22,000 feet and then to 10,000, suggests to me that the plane is literally like diving. I hate saying this, but falling from the sky. It's out of control.

COSTELLO: So, David, what's going on in the cockpit at that time?

SOUCIE: There is a couple of things that can go on. If the power is on, it is continued power, but perhaps the aircraft is over exceeding its claim rate and it starts to stall at that point. It's what they call a flat spin. And what -- trying to recover from that is that the pilots are going to identify the problem, they're going to start with a maneuver that they've designed specifically for this aircraft when it gets into a flat spin, which is to go full left rutter, and continue that movement until such time as the aircraft rocks its way out of that fall, out of that flat fall, as Mary said, like a leaf.

And once it gets some momentum going in one direction, the pilot turns the aircraft completely to that direction and at that point, the aircraft is trying to get some air over the top of the wings, create lift and then at that point, can glide to a safe -- to a safe landing. So this profile does match some of that, not exactly, so I'm not certain about it. But if this wavering is true, if that happened, it would fit that profile.

The thing that's concerning about that is why then did the ADSB go offline prior to this event. If it was just a stall, caused by some other movement, it would have had to be preceded by some kind of catastrophic failure to cause the ADSB signals to go offline and then continue to fly. So there's something --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: So David -- David, ADSB signals. Explain to us what that is.

SOUCIE: OK, what that is the directional signals I guess that come from the airplane that tell the air traffic controllers and tell the radar where the airplane is and what it's doing. So those signals are continually sent. That's the only real data that we get from the aircraft that tells us location, speed and altitude, all in the same area. So at that point, when it turns off, that means and there's redundancy here, too, so there's two of these boxes and two antennas sending information so they would have to gone off simultaneously and that aircraft would be able to go offline, meaning that there's an electrical failure, whether there's a catastrophic failure that would have taken the electrical system off on board the aircraft.

COSTELLO: So, Mary, if it was an act of terror, there are a number of scenarios, right? There could have been a bomb on board, somebody could have broken into the cockpit. The pilot could have been in on it. We just don't know, correct?

SCHIAVO: Well, we just don't know, but we have already a lot of clues. For example, the rate at which the aircraft fell. If they were fighting over controls or as in EgyptAir 990 17 years ago, which was the pilot suicide, the pilot had pushed the nose down and the plane is making a rapid decent, but the plane was still flying. Here, we know at the rate of fall, from 37,000 down to 10,000, over 22 in between a reading, that's a fall. That's not a controlled flying down. So we know whatever happened, happened very dramatically that caused the plane to fall from the sky.

And I think a lot of people are going to terrorism because of the events, I mean, you can't help but notice the events of late. Particularly the reports that at Charles de Gaulle airport, they removed 57 employee security clearances just last November and December because they had ties to terror groups and other airports in Europe. So I think that's probably the kinds of clues they're looking at in concluding that it was probably an explosion that knocked the plane from the sky.

[09:10:02] COSTELLO: OK. And I'm just getting word, David and Mary, from Egyptian officials that there were no known security issues with passengers on board the plane. They don't say anything about the pilot or the co-pilot or the crew . As of yet they are still investigating, David. But I would think there is a large circle of people that they're looking into.

SOUCIE: Yes. There certainly is. It doesn't surprise me that the people on board didn't have that because as Mary said, they just upped their security at Charles de Gaulle airport back in November. They rescreened 87,000 employees and now they've also improved their screening where -- when those employees come to work, they're screened as well on a daily basis. So that increased the security at Charles de Gaulle airport, so if there was a security breach at that airport, I'd be very surprised.

But as we know about terrorism, they continually improve their ability to penetrate these safety measures, so whatever did happen, if it was a security breach, it was something new to us that we'll have to adapt to moving forward.

COSTELLO: And, of course, Mary, whenever they find debris, that will tell them a lot. I'm just wondering, they know where the plane went down. It is in the Mediterranean Sea. It is not like the Indian Ocean. Why is it taking them so long?

SCHIAVO: Well, because it takes a long time for some of the debris to surface. While there are many, many things on the plane that float, you know, the seats, parts of the wing, tires, luggage floats extremely well, it sometimes takes a while for all that to come to the surface depending on how the plane impacted the water. We can assume here it was probably pretty much straight down, given that fall from 37,000 to 10,000 feet. It was probably a straight fall.

But then again, I just want to go back to my other point on a device. You know, as we've seen in terrorist attacks in the past, devices take many different forms, some can be set off by someone on the plane, but others can be set off by an altimeter device, meaning that when the plane gets to a certain altitude, it goes off. Well, here that wouldn't be it, because it was at 37,000 feet for some time. So you would be looking at some sort of a timing device. And that could have been put on a plane at any point, you know, basically at a 24-hour point.

So there are many options in what David said and that the sad truth is that the terrorists are always gaming the system and seem to be sadly one step ahead.

COSTELLO: OK, you guys, stick around. Stay right there because we're just getting word from the White House on this apparent crash.

Athena Jones is in Washington. She has that.

What can you tell us, Athena?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, good morning, Carol. We know the White House has been closely monitoring the developments in this incident. I have this statement from a White House official who says the assistant to the president for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism, Lisa Monaco, has briefed the president on this incident, on the EgyptAir Flight 804. The president has asked to be updated throughout the day as the situation warrants and has directed administration officials to reach out to their international counterparts to offer support and assistance.

So that is what we have right now coming out of the White House. They're going to be watching this very, very closely.

As you probably know, Carol, we know the U.S. is already standing by, ready to help, the combined task force, CPS 67, is making preparations to help if they are called on. This is according to a U.S. military official with direct knowledge of the latest information.

So that's what we have right now, coming out of the White House. Of course, the big question here is whether this was terrorism related, and we heard from Egypt civil aviation minister that it looks more likely to be terrorism than a technical issue. So we'll be watching from here and we'll get back to you with any updates -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Athena, thanks so much.

I want to go back to our panel now, David Soucie and Mary Schiavo. So going back to how they would investigate, if it was a terror attack, who might be responsible.

David, this plane also stopped at four other airports before it took off from Charles de Gaulle airport. So it stopped at these four airports in the past 24 hours, in Eretria, in Cairo, in Tunisia then back to Cairo and then to Paris. How does that complicate things?

SOUCIE: It complicates it in that the security on the ground working backwards, if it were a terror attack, which trust me, at this point, that's how they are viewing it, and they are taking this very seriously and the time is of the essence. So they're investigating all of those airports, and anyone who has touched that aircraft as far as an employee, a baggage handler, a flight attendant, whoever has touched that aircraft within that last 24 hours, as Mary said, has been looked at.

Now why is 24 hours important? Because of the fact that the last layover of that aircraft -- the aircraft itself is not just given a preflight by a pilot, it's actually looked at by very specialized personnel that go in and look at every aircraft during its rotation, its shift change. And at that point, they would have identified things. However, if you recall, not too long ago, out of Sharma el- Sheikh, there was a device about the size of a pop can that was tucked inside of a very hidden area that exploded.

[09:15:10] So as good as we can be with security, as good as we can be with some searching, at this point the challenge is going to be who touched that aircraft within that last 24-hour period.

COSTELLO: So, Mary, how does such an -- I mean, what does it look like at international airports involved in this?

SCHIAVO: Well, first and foremost, it involves a degree of cooperation among law enforcement authorities in all of the countries and Interpol. And what they literally have to do and it is good that they're treating it as terrorism, criminal event, because that means all of the assets are put into play. If you weighed it all in a criminal investigation, then you could possibly lose much, much of the evidence, and people can get away.

I mean, I'm remembering back to the September 11th, 2001 investigation, some people who had screener jobs at the airport, not many, but they left and they were never found. We didn't even know who their real names were. So it's important to do that neatly there, approaching each of the airports right now, grabbing all the records, security tapes of who came to work and who was carrying what, who was working that day, seeing if everybody had the security clearances, and most important, seeing what parts of the airport had employees with full security clearances.

For example, in the United States, many of the airport workers don't have full security clearance and do not report to work through security. So they're seeing more of the possible threat vectors, how can you get threats onto the plane. Who are the people at the airports. And so I am encouraged that they are treating it as a crime, as terrorism, because that means we have a lot more assets in the investigation.

COSTELLO: Mary Schiavo, David Soucie, thank you so much for your insight.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, an international race to find survivors. We're live in Europe as teams from Greece and Egypt race to find any trace of Flight 804.

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[09:21:08] COSTELLO: All right, I'm just -- I'm just getting breaking details about this airliner that crashed into the Mediterranean Sea. Egyptian officials, a C-130, has spotted two floating objects in the sea, and they say it's off the coast of Crete. We don't of course if that debris is connected to the plane, but officials suspect it is.

Here's what we do know. 66 people, including three children, are feared dead after that crash. That EgyptAir Flight 804 went missing over the Mediterranean Sea. Its last known location just inside Egyptian airspace. Its final movement described as a swerve and then a plunge. Right now loved ones of those aboard have gathered at airports in Cairo and in Paris. They're waiting to learn whatever they can about what may have happened.

Right now in the Mediterranean Sea, a desperate search is underway. This marine traffic map I'm going to show you, it shows vessels rushing to where that plane is believed to have gone down. Actually that's not the right map. But I can assure you that ships are already in that area, along with planes flying overhead.

And as I said, Egyptian officials say they've spotted two large objects. What they believe are pieces of debris, but again, we are not certain that that is part of this plane that went down.

Joining me now on the phone, Elinda Labropoulou. She is live in Praga.

Elinda, what more can you tell us about the search?

ELINDA LABROPOULOU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Greeks are working very closely with Egyptian authorities. Military planes have been deployed, helicopters operating in the area. And the latest we have from the Greek Defense Ministry is that an Egyptian C-130 have spotted two floating objects about 210 miles nautical miles southwest of the island of Crete. But it's very early to tell if these can be connected to the missing aircraft. We have to be very careful with this information that's just coming in.

The Greek teams, the Greek air traffic controllers were actually the last to speak to the pilots only minutes before the plane exited Greek airspace. We know that not long before that, everything seemed to be working fine. The pilot was actually apparently in a very pleasant mood, he even thanked them in Greek. And not long after that the authorities at Greek air traffic controllers, they lost control, they lost the plane off the radars.

The plane, according to the Greek Defense Ministry, seems to have descended very suddenly from 37,000 feet, it fell to 15,000 feet, then to 10,000 feet, just after crossing into Egyptians airspace. That's where the Greek authorities have lost signal. And really this is where we are with this now. This is as much as we know up to now in terms of what we can confirm. So these operations of course will continue. It is still early in the day. There is still plenty of daylight in Greece. The weather is good.

These operations have been going on for several hours now. And these floating objects are the first possible items that we can link to the missing aircraft.

COSTELLO: And Elinda, how many vessels are out there searching? Can you tell?

LABROPOULOU: By now, the vessels from a number of countries operating in the area, the French have also joined in the operations. Of course, the Greeks and the Egyptians were the first ones there. And international assistance has been requested. Greece has also asked a number of countries for satellite assistance. So basically asking other countries what they saw, what they have, and how they can contribute to this operation that's now underway.

COSTELLO: All right, Elinda Labropoulou, reporting live for us. We thank you so much.

[09:25:04] I want to -- I don't know, I want to get more -- for more information on this search, I want to bring in Peter Goelz. He's one of our CNN aviation analyst and a former director of the National Transportation Safety Board.

Hi, Peter.

PETER GOELZ, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: What are your impressions of the search effort so far?

GOELZ: Well, it appears to be a better coordinated effort than we've seen in some of the recent accidents. And that's because we have much more accurate radar data on where this plane went down. So I think they will pinpoint the area, but still, you know, the ocean is awfully big. Even -- I've searched for things, and even when you know where they are, it's going to take some time to find it.

COSTELLO: What are some of the difficulties they face?

GOELZ: Well, I mean, the biggest difficulty is they lost contact with the plane at 10,000 feet. You'll look then at what they call primary radar returns, which may give you tracking of the fuselage down to say 5,000 feet, but then you lose it. And it's hard to pin down the plane, it is in pieces. It's going to be a difficult time. I would guess they'll find wreckage today, but it is going to take time to find where the main body is. And they need to get boats out there, vessels out there that can pick up the pings from the black boxes. COSTELLO: The United States has offered assistance. What kind of

assistance can it offer?

GOELZ: Well, they have salvaged vessels, they have navy vessels that may have the right kind of equipment to search for the black boxes. But I think, you know, the French, the Greeks and the Egyptians are capable of doing it, but they'll call on us if needed.

COSTELLO: Well, I know they probably need help with, you know, you know, information from satellites, right, because this plane took the sharp turn to the left, and then a sharp turn to the right, and they can get much more information from satellites, right?

GOELZ: Absolutely. And you know, there are all sorts of assets in that neck of the woods that are, you know, confidential. And getting access to the radar data, the satellite data, it needs to be a cooperative effort, the U.S. certainly has assets in that area, but they will turn -- they will turn that information over if they've got anything of importance.

COSTELLO: The pilots are experienced. In fact, the pilot had over 2,000 hours on this particular kind of plane, but as history tells us, sometimes that doesn't tell the whole story.

GOELZ: Well, exactly. And you know, this is such a disturbing scenario at this stage because the plane clearly was out of control, the Egyptians apparently are indicating that a terrorism more likely than mechanical, it raises concerns, was it someone in the cockpit, was it someone who got into the cockpit, who might have done something? Was it an explosive device? It's just a very disturbing situation.

COSTELLO: Of course Egypt is leading this investigation. Some people have criticized their methods of investigation. Some people say they're not really that transparent. You never what's going on.

In your mind, are they -- are they able to conducts a thorough investigation?

GOELZ: Well, they're able to conduct a thorough investigation. The question is whether they'll be transparent or not. I was at the National Transportation Safety Board when EgyptAir 990 went down. And we had a very difficult time, you know, as we advanced the investigation, getting the Egyptians to accept the fact that the evidence pointed to the co-pilot, deliberately crashing the plane into the sea. And the Egyptians eventually never accepted that determination, although the evidence was simply overwhelming. So they have the capability of doing the investigation. The question is transparency.

COSTELLO: All right, Peter Goelz, thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a steep plunge, sudden swerves, details and new information emerging in the disappearance of EgyptAir Flight 804.

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