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EgyptAir Plane Debris Found; Trump Speaks at NRA; Clinton Gives her Bluntest Assessment Yet Trump. Aired 9:30-10:00a ET

Aired May 20, 2016 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[09:31:37] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. John Berman here, in for Carol Costello.

The Egyptian military now confirms wreckage from EgyptAir Flight 804 has been found about 180 miles north of Alexandria in Egypt. You can see on that map right there. The debris includes belongings from some of the 56 passengers and ten crew on board, an aircraft seat and human remains. The U.S., Greece and France are among those helping with the search efforts right now. All this as the European Space Agency says it has detected a potential oil slick in the Mediterranean not far from where they suspect the flight went down.

With me now to talk more about the recovery effort is Tim Taylor, he's a sea operations and submersible specialist for Tiburon Subsea. His company specializes in underwater technology. We're also joined by CNN aviation analyst and former NTSB managing director Peter Goelz.

Gentlemen, welcome to you.

Tim, I want to start with you. What do you know about this area of the Mediterranean? About 100 miles north of Alexandria right now this area where they found debris. What are searchers facing right now?

TIM TAYLOR, SUBMERSIBLE SPECIALIST, TIBURON SUBSEA: They're looking at depth, first of all. You've got - you've got upwards to 3,000 meters, or 10,000 feet, of water to deal with. So when they - when they say they found wreckage, you've got to be careful of how you use the terminology. They found debris. If you're classifying wreckage as the full ship, that's probably on the bottom someplace that's going to be searched for over a long period of time before they find it. It's not going to happen fast.

BERMAN: And that means they have to get all those devices that we learned about there.

TAYLOR: Right.

BERMAN: They have to get the submersibles.

TAYLOR: Right.

BERMAN: They have to get the subs there. Things that can go down two miles, which is far. TAYLOR: Yes. Yes. And the oil slick is a great indicator because, I mean, that - it's - jet fuel is light, so it comes up fast and evaporates fast. So it's not like heavy bunker oil that you can see like at World War II where - where there was slicks for still 70 years later from some of these wrecks. But it is a good indicator. Get the pinger in the water, listen, find the pinger array, get a general area and then go down and start scanning with sonar and sound and then eventually machines that can go (INAUDIBLE).

BERMAN: Peter Goelz, based on your experiences, once you identify pieces of debris, which apparently have now been identified in the Mediterranean Sea, what's the timeline after that?

PETER GOELZ, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, as Tim mentioned, we're looking at weeks, if not months. I mean having recovered stuff beneath the ocean, it's not easy and it's very difficult. They are going to have a tough time over the next week even just identifying where the main wreckage field is. And as Tim mentioned, this is 9,000 feet deep, and a jagged ocean floor, apparently. The vessel searching for the pingers are going to have to almost be on top of them to - to really get a solid fix.

Now, they'll look at the wreckage that's floating. It may or may not tell you anything because, really, in this kind of investigation, if it was an explosive device, the first stuff off the plane, the - where the explosion takes place is the most important. And that will be further down the flight path. So they're going to have to not only search where the main wreckage is, but trace it back along the flight path, account for drift, and start searching for the first pieces off the plane.

BERMAN: You know, math is clearly a big part of this, tracing back mathematically where it had been before once you do see these pieces. Peter, talk to me about the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder, the timelines now with these pings. How long do they have to locate these devices?

[09:35:13] GOELZ: Well, the clock's ticking. Some of the older recorders have a 30 day battery. Some of the newer recorders have a 90 day battery. EgyptAir should be able to tell us immediately what kind of batteries are on those devices. So the clock's ticking.

BERMAN: Tim, go ahead.

TAYLOR: Yes. And Peter's right, the sound is a major issue there. If it's very rocky terrain, sound is a tricky thing under water and it will - it can ricochet like echoes, it can hit density levels at that depth and then - and kind of echo out in different directions so you don't necessarily have the ability to narrow down precisely where it is with the pingers. It could be a very general area, if - if they find it, you know, at all. And, again, it's easy to find it in flat terrain. The rocky terrain or higher profile terrain just makes it more difficult.

BERMAN: What about the Mediterranean in general right now. It's busy. I mean there are shipping lanes there. TAYLOR: Yes.

BERMAN: There's a lot going on there. Does that make it harder to work under water?

TAYLOR: Not really. As much as you see the shipping traffic and lane, it's a big ocean out there. It's not like running down the highway here and you've got - you're running past boats. When you get closer to harbors, traffic congests. But it's a big ocean. They can stay away from each other. Generally, a ship doing submersible operations let's everybody know in the area and they give them a wide birth. So that's not a - really an issue. It's just the - even the Mediterranean is seemingly a small ocean. It is - it's a big, big place to look, too. So there's a lot of area to cover.

BERMAN: And, obviously, Peter, this is a multinational effort right now, which complicates things, right? You have the Egyptians who theoretically will be leading the investigation. You have the French, who will be deeply interested and involved also because a plane took off from Charles de Gaulle. You have Greece, because it happened, you know, the plane lost contact over Greek airspace right now. Your experience dealing with specifically these countries, if you have experience, you know, what's in store?

GOELZ: Well, I think, you know, there's always a certain amount of missteps during the opening phases of an accident. And we saw that yesterday where, you know, Greece announced that they had found wreckage or they had seen wreckage. It appears as though this effort is getting better coordinated by the hour. And, you know, in Malaysia Flight 370, we saw a number of missteps during the opening weeks in which the Chinese reported that they had picked up the sound of a pinger, which was not true. I think this will be far better coordinated. I think they're working towards that. The French, the British and the Egyptians have worked together before on accident investigations. I don't think you're going to see those kinds of missteps going forward.

BERMAN: And it does indeed seem now that debris has been found and progress is being made, which is good for the investigation but very difficult news for the families.

Peter Goelz, Tim Taylor, thanks so much for being with us.

Still to come, what we are learning about the 66 people on board EgyptAir Flight 804, that's next.

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[09:42:22] BERMAN: Right now, top executives from EgyptAir, including the company's CEO, are meeting with the families of victims from Flight 804. The airline is offering its condolences. This as we learn more about the people on board. CNN's Brynn Gingras has been looking into that. She's with me now.

What do you know, Brynn. BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you mentioned it, 66 people on

board, 10 of them were crew members, 56 passengers, all different ages, John. We're talking about two children, infants. And they come from a dozen countries, primarily Egypt. And we're learning about some of their names through people, family members, and also just through social media.

One of them, Ahmed Helal, 40 years old, was working at Procter & Gamble in Paris. Was actually going to Cairo to visit his sick father. He was on that flight.

We also learned this morning about Marwa Hamdy. She's actually a Canadian national. And she was living in Cairo with her three children. They go to school there. The school actually confirmed about her being on that flight and they said she was a devoted and loving mother on her - on their FaceBook site. They said she was greatly appreciated by everyone who had the chance to deal with her, and they said she was always offering a helping hand with a pure smile.

And then another one, John, Richard Osman. He was actually from Whales, but he was living in Paris. And this is according to ITV News. He was living in Paris with his wife. He just had a baby, 14 months old. He has two daughters in all. And his wife is actually the one who realized on the news, the plane went down. She knew her husband was on it. And ITV News spoke with his brother.

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ALASTAIR OSMAN, VICTIM'S BROTHER: Richard was a very kind person, loving person, very focused. He was a workaholic and he never deviated from the straight path. So, yes, he was just - you know, a very admirable person and I think a lot of people admired him for his strength and values.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRAS: Yes, just heartbreaking to hear from these family members who really are just still in shock at this point. EgyptAir still not releasing the entire list of names of everyone on that flight because they're still like getting in touch with the next of kin. But that same brother, you know, he just said, these terrorists don't realize, these are - these are family members. They have kids. They have lives. And it's just devastating.

BERMAN: No, those 66 stories of the people on board that flight. I was speaking to a friend of Marwa Hamdy last night, you mentioned her, and Marwa Hamdy, you know, a mother to three, but also a devoted daughter as well. So many people depending on her. And, again, she's just one of the 66 people who apparently have lost their lives.

Brynn Gingras, thanks so much for being with us. Important stories.

[09:44:55] We'll be right back.

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BERMAN: Our coverage of the EgyptAir crash will continue, but first, politics.

Donald Trump is taking his bid for the White House to a key voting bloc for conservatives, the National Rifle Association. Donald Trump will address the annual convention for the biggest gun rights group in the nation this afternoon. This is the latest move to try to bring his party together.

Phil Mattingly joins us now.

What is Donald Trump going to do today, Phil?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think what you're - what you'll see him do today is what you've seen him do really over the course of the last week, which is try to reach out to very specific segments of the Republican Party. Now, you have the NRA, where Donald Trump, over the course of his entire campaign, has made clear, quote, "nobody will protect the Second Amendment like me" or like Donald Trump.

[09:50:01] Now, that's obviously a shift. And he's acknowledged his views have evolved on this issue. If you look back to a book Donald Trump wrote in 2000, he said he supported the assault weapons ban. He supported longer waiting periods for people trying to purchase guns. Now, he has shifted those positions, an evolution that he's described repeatedly. But this is an important segment of the Republican Party. You saw him try and reach one with the list of his judges, the 11 judges that he put out earlier in the week. Now he's shifting to gun owners. And this is a very important convention. You see a who's who of Republican lawmakers and top GOP officials will be speaking at this convention and he had no question about it, Donald Trump is the premiere speaker as his effort continues to unify the party.

And, John, I do think it's really interesting, as we watch this process play out over the course of the last week, week and a half, really since Paul Ryan set the Republican Party on fire declining to endorse Donald Trump, the work that Trump and his team have done behind the scenes to try and secure endorsements and the work that the Republican Party has done publicly to start to move in his direction. That never Trump movement, while certain people are very much still involved in that movement, Mitt Romney being one of them, the efforts for a third-party candidate still out there, but also starting to wither.

I want to read a Republican official who served in George W. Bush's administration and was very much in the never Trump camp. He sent me an e-mail this morning and we were talking and he said, "we've all spent the last couple of months counting the reasons why we can't support Trump. Now we're all in the process of just trying to find one reason to support him." And I think that's one of the things that you've seen over the last 10 days, Trump trying to give them that reason and those people finding the reason and starting to shift behind him.

BERMAN: Money starting to go his way.

MATTINGLY: Yes. BERMAN: And in the polls too. And we've seen a few of them from Fox News and then "The New York Times" and CBS -

MATTINGLY: Exactly.

BERMAN: Where you do see Donald Trump starting to consolidate that Republican support. Not all the way there yet, but the trend is moving in that direction.

MATTINGLY: It's happening. It's true. No question.

BERMAN: Phil Mattingly, thanks so much.

Donald Trump is facing increasingly sharper attacks from Hillary Clinton as the two inch closer to a general election showdown. Hillary Clinton gave her bluntest assessment yet of Donald Trump's candidacy to CNN's Chris Cuomo.

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CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR, "NEW DAY": Do you think that Donald Trump is qualified to be president?

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, I do not. I think if you go through many of his irresponsible, reckless, dangerous comments, it's not just somebody saying something off the cuff. We all misstate things. We all, you know, may not be as careful in phrasing what we say. This is a pattern. It's a pattern that has gone on now for months.

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BERMAN: Donald Trump fired back using the words of Hillary Clinton's Democratic rival against her.

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DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Bernie Sanders said that Hillary really isn't - essentially not fit to be president. She's not qualified to be president. He said unqualified, and he said that she suffers from bad judgment. And she does.

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BERMAN: All right, joining me now is Larry Sabato, director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics.

Larry, great to have you with us.

There were two big shifts from Hillary Clinton in that interview with Chris Cuomo yesterday. Number one, she was asked bluntly, is Donald Trump qualified to be president? Her answer now is no. That wasn't her answer two weeks ago. Two weeks ago she demurred. She did not answer the question. She said, you know, I'm going to let the people decide. I'm going to talk about my own qualifications. Now definitively she says no. Why the shift, do you imagine? LARRY SABATO, DIR., UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA CENTER FOR POLITICS: Well,

she's decided that the voters need some help in reaching that conclusion since the polls have been tightening, at least some polls have been tightening. Look, Hillary Clinton and her advisers I'm sure recognize that they can't make the same mistake that the 16 Republicans who were vanquished by Donald Trump made during the primary season, which was basically to leave him alone, to assume that the voters would conclude that he was way off in orbit with outrageous charges, and that doesn't necessarily happen. You have to fight back. And she's going to have to fight back either directly, and some of it will be direct, or through affiliated super PACs or the Democratic Party.

BERMAN: And the affiliated super PAC prior (ph) is USA, the pro- Hillary Clinton super PAC is up with ads, $6 million worth of ads over the next two weeks in key swing states. So for them the fight is very much on, even while Hillary Clinton is still in the middle of a primary, Larry. And that was the other very interesting thing, the other big shift we saw from Hillary Clinton yesterday. She flat out told Chris Cuomo, it's done. I'm going to be the Democratic nominee. She seemed no longer willing, you know, for lack of a better word, to humor Bernie Sanders. Less concerned about alienating his supporters than she has been to date.

SABATO: You know, John, we're at the point where she actually can't afford, in terms of money, time, and energy, to fight a two-front war. Amazing, looking back to what we all thought last summer, the Republicans, with 17 candidates, have wrapped up their season early. They've got a nominee, and, as you noted before, Republicans are coalescing behind that nominee. The leadership maybe not, but the rank and file is. And here the Democrats only started with five candidates and have had two for most of the season, they're still fighting pretty viciously. So she has got to shift and pivot to Donald Trump, and she's trying to send that message to Bernie Sanders. I don't think he's receiving it, but she's sending the message.

[09:55:35] BERMAN: No, she flat out says it's on him. It's on him at this point to get his supporters to move her way. Although we should point out, Larry, you know, in closing that - that - she's doing better with Bernie Sanders supporters than Barack Obama was doing with Hillary Clinton supporters in 2008. So there is some reason for the Hillary Clinton campaign to hope if this does go the way she thinks it will.

Larry Sabato, always great to talk to you. Thanks so much.

SABATO: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: All right, our coverage of the crash of EgyptAir Flight 804 continues after this quick break.

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