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Charles de Gaulle Airport Changes; EgyptAir Investigation; Egypt's Tourism Minister on Crash; U.S. Navy Aids in Search. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired May 20, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Miguel, I'm sure it has been for everyone. Our hearts go out to those families. Thanks very much for joining us.

That's it for me. The news continues next right here on CNN.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me.

We begin with breaking news on EgyptAir Flight 804. A total of 66 people, including three young children, are now presumed dead. At the moment, in the Mediterranean Sea, Egypt says their search crews are recovering body parts. They are finding pieces of the plane, debris. We're told aircraft seats, suit cases. The scene is grim and it's floating in waters roughly 180 miles north of Alexandria, Egypt. The Airbus A320 bound for Cairo went down just after entering Egyptian air space during an otherwise routine flight from Paris' Charles de Gaulle Airport.

We do now have photos of the two men at the helm of the plane, the pilot, with more than 6,000 hours in the cockpit. The copilot had almost 3,000 hours. The Egyptian government saying they have no evidence whatsoever to implicate either of them. And they are also standing by their belief that this plane was brought down by terror.

But - and this is key - and we're going to get into this - without those black boxes, right, the flight data recorder, the voice recorder, it is still impossible to know whether someone inside the cockpit steered the plane into sea, whether the plane was blown out of the sky, perhaps by a bomb hidden somewhere on board, or even if this was simply a catastrophic midair mechanical failure.

Our CNN crews are all working their sources. We're going to begin this hour with Atika Shubert, our CNN senior international correspondent, who is live there at Charles de Gaulle in Paris.

Atika, first up, just obviously security. Already changes taking place there.

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. The French have announced today that they will be adding an extra 30 intelligence officers at the scene here in Charles de Gaulle starting in just a few weeks' time. And that's on top of the already 5,700 security agents who patrol the terminal. And, in fact, today, and every day for the last few months, we have seen armed soldiers patrolling through here, making random checks of passengers with their bags. So it is at its highest state of alert.

This is also where the investigation into the mystery of EgyptAir is beginning. They have been interviewing employees and personnel, the last people to have any contact with the plane. That's everybody from baggage handlers, to cleaners, to catering staff. It's a lot of people to go through. Eighty-five thousand people actually have those red badges or special security access to the area where the plane was. So it's going to take some time to get through it all, Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, Atika Shubert, thank you so much.

We'll begin there with my panel. I have Mitch Silber here, senior managing director at FTI Consulting and geopolitical intelligence expert who's also supervised the analysis of ongoing terrorism investigations. David Soucie is with us, CNN safety analyst and former FAA safety inspector. And Justin Green, a CNN aviation analyst and aviation attorney.

So, gentlemen, welcome.

And let's just piggyback first off of Atika's point about the sweep of this plane in Paris, right? So we know 24 hours prior it had gone through Eretria and Tunisia and Africa before landing in Paris. It's swept. We know from our guidance, you know, that that means they're talking to the caterers on board, the cleaners, any sort of crew, baggage handlers, right? Who could - who could talk to me about what a sweep would look like?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: I could. So what a sweep is, is you've got several people going through. Now, the crew does the sweep in some conditions as well, so it may not -

BALDWIN: The crew from the plane?

SOUCIE: The actual plane crew that's in there already. So they - sometimes that crew could do that. But additional crew is brought in as well. And I think in this airport, in Charles de Gaulle, it would have been a separate crew that would come in. But what they're looking for - there are some sections, for example, in the bathroom. You go into the bathroom. You open the cabinet. There's trash in there. They take the trash out. They put the trash bag back in. That's not what a security sweep is. They take the trash out. They move that out of the way. They inspect the bucket. They inspect underneath. They look under the sink. There's some panels that can be removed in there, that can be pulled back and you have to look in those. So anything that's accessible, any place that they might put anything, even as small as a pop can, is looked at during that sweep.

BALDWIN: And when I was reading a little bit more about Charles de Gaulle, looking at my numbers, Atika just reported the extra 30 security officers, but there are 86,000 people -- 86,000 who somehow, some form or fashion, work - work at the airport who have these red badges which give them access to areas known as reserve zones. So, obviously, some questions about - if this is even terrorism. We have to be so careful that, you know, no one really knows.

Justin, looking at you, new information also today, senior Egyptian officials saying the nature of how the plane went down leads them to being so confident they believe it was terrorism, describing it as a nose dive. And they're so confident in their - in their pilot, the captain and the copilot, that they couldn't possibly have steered it into the sea.

[14:05:13] JUSTIN GREEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, you know, they're looking at, is there a known problem with the airplane? Is there a maintenance issue that they know about or they say look back on and say, maybe that could have led to an inflight break-up. And they're looking at the pilots and they're saying, look, the pilots, there's nothing to suggest that they did anything. And they're using the weather. The circumstances of the weather. There's nothing that suggests that the weather could have caused a break-up. And that's kind of a logical chain that they're relying on for their finding that it's more likely terrorism. I think it's premature to jump on that bandwagon right now.

BALDWIN: You do?

GREEN: I think a very detailed instigation will happen and is needed in the same way that we investigated TWA 800, which initially was thought to be a bomb or a shot down. The same way American 587, right after 9/11 here in New York, initially everyone thought it was a bomb, but an investigation shows that those were in-flight break-ups. Now, it very well could be a terrorist attack. And this is in a - could be kind of a game changer because Charles de Gaulle is a very secure airport. So if it can happen there, it could happen anywhere.

BALDWIN: Which is frightening also because we talk so much - we were just talking earlier this week about three hour lines at Chicago's O'Hare Airport. We were careful about what we pack. We're careful about going through all these different, you know, processes. And who knows about the people who are working at the airplane with the access.

Looking at you, Mitch, again, I go back to this point where we were talking about this before the show started. We're about 36 hours since this plane went down and still no claim of responsibility from any sort of terrorist organization. I made the point yesterday that we're in the age of Twitter. Things happen quickly. They have social media managers with these terrorist organizations. What does that lead you to believe?

MITCH SILBER, SENIOR MANAGING DIRECTOR, FTI CONSULTING: Well, I think you have to look at the broader geopolitical situation, right? You have an EgyptAir plane that goes down and a plane that departed from France on its way to Egypt. So if you think about some of the terrorist groups that are in the mix right now, ISIS and al Qaeda, and al Qaeda-related groups like the Corazon (ph) Group, many of them have both Egypt as an enemy, President Sisi has cracked down very hard on Islamist groups in Egypt. And, obviously, you know, the history in France, in Paris not that long ago, with the ISIS attacks.

BALDWIN: Right.

SILBER: Now, ISIS has generally been very forward leaning in claiming when they've taken part in the terrorist attack. We saw it in Brussels. We saw it in Paris. So their silence here is quite interesting. What's also worth noting is that al Qaeda elements from Yemen, the group that put together the underwear bomb, the group that put together the printer cartridge bomb hidden in printer cartridges that no one could detect in the U.K., they have moved many of their elements to Syria. And it's believed that they have a better operating base in Syria. And they more so than ISIS are probably more advanced when it comes to trying to attack airline targets. So in my mind, if I'm thinking about terrorist groups, it makes sense ISIS doesn't claim it, probably not them, but maybe an al Qaeda spin off.

BALDWIN: I know Egypt is saying terrorism. U.S. intel has been saying terrorism. You're talking about terrorist organizations. Could one single person be capable of pulling something like this off?

SILBER: Well, we saw it with the Sharm el Sheik flight, right? We know that -

BALDWIN: Soda can size, right?

SILBER: Soda can size device put there by someone who was an insider, working within the airport. So, yes, it could have been one person. The question is, what's the network of support behind them?

BALDWIN: OK. As far as - to both of you, the search area, right? So we know it's Mediterranean Sea off of one of these Greek islands. From what I understand, and we're talking to oceanographers a little later, but it's quite deep, about two miles. You have this plane, composite plane, relatively new, 2003. Obviously some pieces floating, some pieces sink. The piece is the tail, which would hold the flight data recorder. Talk about how they're going to find that.

SOUCIE: Well, with the Airbus that crashed - the Air France Airbus that crashed, the tail was still floating. And that's one of the things that was found.

BALDWIN: Two years later? Wasn't that two years later?

SOUCIE: No. Well, that was two years later was the actual ground search underneath.

BALDWIN: That was - OK.

SOUCIE: OK. But even at that point, the boxes were not in that tail. They had come out because during the disruption, they are heavy boxes, and they have their own - they have mounts. But the mounts aren't designed for a nine g impact like that. So they do end up on the bottom. Many times those things are not attached to the big structures of the airplane. So that's something that really puts challenges ahead.

Now, the underwater locator beacon is sending out a pulse. It's a high frequency pulse, about the frequency of a dog whistle. But in dog whistle terms, it's about as loud as a shotgun. So, under water, that only transmits about a mile and a half. So we start looking for where those boxes are. It very well should be sending out this signal and the underwater - remember the toad underwater locator beacon sensors that they sent out to try to find these things, it has to be within that mile and a half before it will even pick that sound up. So it's very challenging and very specialized equipment to go in there and find that specific piece of (INAUDIBLE).

[14:10:13] BALDWIN: OK. Let me ask all three of you to stand by here. Also, you know, our minds are with the families. We'll talk about what they're going through. Many of them are in Cairo right now.

But let me talk now - we'll be talking live to the U.S. Navy. They are assisting in this search in the Mediterranean Sea about what they are finding, what they're helping look for.

Also ahead, the copilot's relatives speaking out to CNN. Hear what they and other families are now saying.

And any moment, Donald Trump will address the NRA at its conference in Kentucky as he tries to win over conservatives. We'll have all of that for you and more.

It's Friday. You're watching CNN. Special coverage continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN on this Friday afternoon. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

I want to take you back to our special live breaking coverage here of the presumed 66 lives lost in the Mediterranean Sea as a result of the crash of EgyptAir Flight 804.

[14:15:05] I want to go straight to Cairo now, to Egypt's tourism minister. He is Yehia Rashed.

Minister Rashed, thank you so much for your time and I know there were 30 Egyptians on board that plane. My condolences, sir.

YEHIA RASHED, EGYPTIAN TOURISM MINISTER: Thank you.

BALDWIN: I know officials haven't concluded that this was absolutely an act of terror. Your nation's aviation minister has said the cause is more likely to be terrorism than a technical issue. What are you hearing?

RASHED: Actually, we cannot make any speculation for the time being because there is no evidence of any - any proof whether this is one thing or the other. So I would rather not speculate at this point of time and leave the facts come when they find the black boxes and they can have evidence of what they are saying.

BALDWIN: On the facts, we do know that they are finding suit cases, seats, body parts. What do you know? Can you be specific as far as what else has been found in the Mediterranean? RASHED: I think actually our information is limited to what has been

declared. You know, so at this point of time, I don't have anything to add to what they have found. I think at this point in time we need to focus on giving the support to the families and the friends for their loss of their loved ones. And we should basically focus on how we can give them all the support possible, you know, at this point in time.

BALDWIN: Mr. Rashed, that's exactly where I wanted to go next. You know, have you been in touch with any of the families? I know many of them are there in Cairo.

RASHED: There are a few families. I've been in touch with some of the local families here in Cairo. You know, some other officials have been to the other families. We continue to do this. I'll continue to do this tomorrow morning as well. We try to give all the support and the care and love to those families and give them a comfort and do the best we can to make them - to make it easier for them.

BALDWIN: Can you just tell me about one conversation, as much as you are willing to share, sir, just about the questions they're asking, how they're holding up?

RASHED: I think the question, a the simple question everybody is trying to figure out, what has taken place, what is the cause, and, as you know in these type of instance, you know, things takes time. And unless you have definite proof of what has been the facts, you know, we should not really speculate. We should get out of speculation. It should not be part of, you know, of this kind of, you know, right or wrong speculation. I think we should wait till we get all the facts and then share them and be transparent about it.

BALDWIN: Let's talk about your country. I know that you have said there have - you know, you haven't had security issues at Egyptian airports. That it's 100 percent secure, except for one major exception, which was what happened last October with that Russia Metrojet explosion. Two hundred and twenty-four people were killed after taking off from Sharm el Sheik. And I know that tourism in your country accounts for 11 percent of your workforce, your GDP. Since then it's - tourism has dropped off 5 percent. You know, for people who have Egypt, you know, your beautiful country, on their travel bucket list, what would you tell someone right now?

RASHED: I tell everybody that we currently work with all the global forces to make Egypt secure. You know, the Egyptian airports are no different than any other airports in France or England and the U.K., sorry, or in the U.S. You know, we face the same threat from terrorism. Egypt have fighted (ph) the battle of terrorism all over on behalf of the word. And today we are encouraging people to travel in spite of the instance.

Incidents can take place. You know, we've seen what happened in many other countries without, you know, specifying what happened in, you know, in every country. But, you know, we're exposed to the worldwide terrorism and I say we should actually give people the chance and the liberty to move, to travel, to enjoy themselves. You know, it's part of giving the hope, the prosperity, the positivity to the world. Let people - you know, let these things (ph) don't stop people from enjoying their life, enjoying their time, being able to travel everywhere. You know we work globally to make things easier, faster, safer for them. And that is the role of all over - of all the governments all over the world.

[14:20:20] BALDWIN: Yahia Rashed, minister of tourism there, joining us live from Cairo. I look forward to meeting you in Cairo one day. And just - I appreciate your time. Again, our hearts going out to your country and the families who have presumed to have lost loved ones in this horrendous crash. Thank you so much, sir, for our time.

RASHED: This is our biggest concern is how to support all the families and all the human beings, to make them feel much comfortable and put them at ease at this very difficult time. Thank you.

BALDWIN: Absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you.

We will stay on our special live coverage, obviously, of this downed airplane, but when we come back, we will take you live to Louisville, Kentucky. We're waiting and waiting to hear from the presumptive Republican nominee speaking to the NRA conference there in Kentucky, Donald Trump. We'll take it live, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:44] BALDWIN: We're back here with the breaking news here as we're learning a bit more from Egyptian officials and U.S. intelligence trying to understand exactly what brought this EgyptAir plane down just about 36 hours ago. Mitch Silber is back with us, David Soucie, Justin Green. And so we're talking about potential threads of terrorism, but also being extraordinarily careful. You know, the Egyptian tourism minister making the point where, you know, let's not jump out ahead of this because, obviously, you have all these different families, many of whom are sitting in Cairo on an emotional roller coaster, trying to understand what could have possibly happened. What is the - other than the what took the plane down, what are your biggest questions?

GREEN: Well, I - you know, one of the things that - I just want to compliment Mr. Rashed -

BALDWIN: Yes.

GREEN: For what he said. And, unfortunately, yesterday, we - the families went through a roller coaster. So initially they were told -

BALDWIN: You have represented the families in major crashes. You know.

GREEN: I have. And I have to sit through, you know, what they go through. I have had to go through it with them. But what happened yesterday is that families were told we found the wreckage. And the families - it doesn't matter. Until they see their loved ones, they're holding out hope some miracle may have happened. In the Malaysia Airlines 370 case, my clients still, many of them, don't accept that there's absolutely no hope. So yesterday they were told that they found the airplane. Then yesterday I was sitting here on your set and Christine Dennison

said, I don't buy it. I don't think it's - I think - I don't see any evidence. And then about an hour later they say, no, it wasn't the wreckage. And then later in the day, now they really found the wreckage. So the families, yesterday, went through a roller coaster and that's unfortunate.

BALDWIN: Are they watching the news when - you know, the families who you were working with? Are they paying attention to ever nugget?

GREEN: Every - every single thing. And responsible coverage, like we had with you and Christine yesterday, it was positive. Some irresponsible coverage where there's a rush to judgment is not so great.

BALDWIN: David Soucie, I mean -

SOUCIE: Well, you know what's most frustrating for me is the fact that during that time, when these people are waiting to hear information, we do this every single time there's an aircraft down, for that long period of time. And it's avoidable. We've known this for a long time. There's technology available where we can see what's happening in the cockpit in real time, all the time, and know exactly what could have happened to the aircraft at that moment. We don't do that. Why don't we do that? Why isn't that available for people? Because we don't - we have such a short memory that once this happens and once we do find conclusively what happed, we don't follow that up with, how do we prevent it from happening again, because you walk away thinking, it will never happen to me, it will never happen again. But, in fact, it will, and we need to prepare for that by getting streaming information all the way from the aircraft, streaming video from the cockpits.

BALDWIN: We don't have that, though.

SOUCIE: We do not have that.

BALDWIN: I mean I hear Miles O'Brien all the time saying, why, in 2016, do we not have that?

SOUCIE: That's right.

BALDWIN: A thought from you, Mitch, and then I want to remind our viewers what we know at this point.

SILBER: Yes, Brooke, for me it's - if it's terrorism, who did it and how did they do it? You know, is al Qaeda trying to get back into the mix? They haven't done anything spectacular. But airlines have certainly been one of their hallmark type attacks. And we don't have any claim of responsibility from ISIS. And then, if so, how did they do it? Was it an insider at Charles de Gaulle Airport? We know Charles de Gaulle has fired almost 100 people over the last few months. Was there an insider in Cairo, in Tunis (ph), in Eretria (ph)? You know, where do we have to look to see there's a venerability that we've missed to date?

BALDWIN: So there are all the - all of those different pieces of this whole story. And then, of course, the U.S. has jumped in to try to help. The U.S. Navy is assisting in the - in the recovery of EgyptAir Flight 804. It has deployed actually three surveillance plane, these are P-3 Orions, over the Mediterranean Sea to assist in the search effort.

So we actually have now on the phone mission commander who flew the first flight last night in search of this missing plane. He is Lieutenant Commander Brian Blashke.

And, Commander Blashke, thank you so much for hopping on the phone. I can imagine that you all are extraordinarily busy. First of all, tell me about the Orion. Tell me how you all are able to help.

LT. COMMANDER BRIAN BLASHKE, MISSION COMMANDER (via telephone): OK. So, good afternoon.

[14:29:53] The P-3 Orion is one of the Navy's long range maritime patrol aircraft. We - we're primarily designed for anti-submarine warfare and maritime reconnaissance. However, those same sensors that make us so good at that mission allow us - make us very effective at search and rescue. So what we do is we have 40 (ph) sensors onboard the aircraft such as radar and high-definition camera...