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Donald Trump To Speak At NRA Convention; Body Parts, Plane Seats Found In Sea; Relatives Angry Over Pointing Fingers At Egypt; Search And Recovery Continues At Sea; How Are Employees Screened At U.S. Airports; Airport Security; France Reinforces Security; EgyptAir Crash. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired May 20, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 7:00 p.m. in Cairo, 8:00 p.m. in Athens. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Take a look at this. We're going to get to the EgyptAir crash in a moment. We're also standing by -- these are live pictures coming in from the National Rifle Association convention in Louisville, Kentucky. Donald Trump scheduled to speak this hour. We'll have live coverage. Stand by for that.

But let's get to the breaking news. The first objects from EgyptAir Flight 804 now being recovered in the Mediterranean Sea. Those objects include body parts, luggage and seats from the plane that disappeared on its flight from Paris to Cairo, that according to EgyptAir and Greek officials.

The debris was located around 180 miles north of the Egyptian coast. But so far, the largest parts, including the fuselage, have not been located. Search crews from the -- from a number of nations, including the United States, France and Greece, they are all combing the Mediterranean area right now.

Egypt has now established a new investigative committee to look into the tragedy. It's being run by the same person who headed the investigation into last year's downing of a Russian metro jet plane in Egypt. That was in Sinai. It killed 224 people. Widely believed to be the work of terrorists using a very small bomb.

Here in the United States, officials are keeping a very close eye on the latest developments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER NEFFENGER, ADMINISTRATOR, TSA: We still don't know what happened there but we're following the investigation closely. Our hearts go out to the families and friends of the people who were lost. But, most importantly, it's a stark reminder that what we do is really important and we need to do it well and we need to do it efficiently.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Right now, the reason for the plane's demise is unknown, although the prevailing theory for both the U.S. and Egypt is that it was terror. U.S. officials, however, stress that as of now, there is no, quote, "smoking gun."

There have also been no claims of responsibility by any terror groups, at least not yet. The Kastelli air base on the Greek island of Crete is used as a staging ground for search and recovery operations.

CNN International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson is there with details on the search and how the weather is affecting the operation.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Wolf, this is one of the Greek air forces C-130. It's a military cargo transport aircraft. This one, we're told, being prepared to go out on a search and recovery mission. They have one of these aircraft already out over the search area. We understand, as well, that they have a surveillance aircraft also over flying in the area where the search is going on right now.

Also, today, three U.S. Orion P-3 surveillance aircraft increasing the U.S. effort here to try to find the debris out there on the Mediterranean Sea. Now that some of that debris has been found, those body parts, the seats from the aircraft, parts of passengers or luggage, that's floating up as well, all that being found can now focus this effort. There is a British naval vessel out on the water as well as Egyptian vessels. But now, they can begin to focus

There's a British naval vessel out on the water as well -- as well as Egyptian vessels. But now, they can begin to focus. Also, that information from the European Space Agency, an oil slick on the surface of the water that has been seen close to where this debris has been -- has been spotted and found. That oil slick typical from an aircraft entering the sea. Could be hydraulic fluid. Could be aviation fuel. Not clear yet if it is, if this oil slick that's been spotted from space by satellite, if it is associated with EgyptAir 804.

But that is something, again, that's going to be helping to focus, helping to pinpoint the recovery effort. And that is good because as Friday has gone on, the visibility has diminished. The wind has picked up. There's been rain moving in. The swell on the sea has been higher. That all, of course, going to make the visibility and the recovery effort a little bit slower. But pinpointing the area now just southeast of where the aircraft disappeared off the radar, all of that very, very important right now -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic Robertson reporting for us. Thank you.

Relatives of the crew of the EgyptAir Flight 804 expressing frustration over the investigation into the crash. Sixty-six people were onboard the plane. The uncle of the co-pilot feels Egypt is being unduly scrutinized. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HISHAM ASSEM: It's always us. It's our airports. It's our flight. It's our everything. But it's not (INAUDIBLE.) No. It's not where the aircraft came from. (INAUDIBLE.) It just landed from some other country and then (INAUDIBLE) the passengers and the flight.

[13:05:01] I mean, to my surprise, these investigations (ph) normally takes weeks. And when it comes to an Egyptian aircraft, it's hours. And then, pointing fingers. It's our airports. It's our pilots. It's our maintenance. And then what?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Our Senior International Correspondent Arwa Damon is in Cairo. She's over at Cairo International Airport right now. Arwa, what more can you tell us about this Egyptian investigative committee that's been formed?

ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, its main focus is going to be trying to find the answers to those questions that everyone has been asking. How and why did this plane come down and what can be done to prevent this in the future? The problem is that it's going to be very difficult to even begin that process before main parts of the plane have been recovered.

Now, the man who is heading up the investigative committee, Ayman Al Moqadem, is the same person who headed up the metro jet investigation. Remember when ISIS claimed responsibility for bringing down that Russian Budget airliner over the Sinai.

In that case, it was and ended up being explosives that caused the detonation that then brought down the aircraft. And that led to a series of investigations into security procedures at the Sharm El Sheikh Airport. And then, led to the country to have a greater heightened sense of awareness and beefed up security when it comes to its own measures within Egypt.

But this investigation, Wolf, is going to need to span across countries and across continents, given how many nations, at this stage, are already involved.

BLITZER: We'll get -- we'll stay in very close touch with you. Arwa, thank you.

I want to discuss the latest findings with my guest, our aviation analyst, the former NTSB managing director, Peter Goelz. He's here as well as CNN Contributor, the oceanographer, David Gallo.

Peter, they're finding body parts, pieces of the wreckage, other stuff. What kind of clues can they get from what they are finding right now?

PETER GOELZ, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, I mean, it's a very difficult process. And the early stuff that they're going to pick up, the human remains -- BLITZER: The stuff that's floating.

GOELZ: -- that's floating is going to be the lighter things. And it may, but most likely will not, lend itself to analysis of whether it was a bomb or not.

BLITZER: But, forensically, can't they determine if there --

GOELZ: Well, they --

BLITZER: -- was some explosive residue maybe?

GOELZ: -- can if the bomb was located in the luggage and you're lucky enough to get a piece of luggage that was adjacent to that. Most likely, that's not the case because when a bomb explodes on a plane, the first material off the plane is always the most important. And that tends to be further up the flight track.

So, if you're in a large debris field, you're probably not going to see the first material off the plane. But you'll be able to see -- you might be able to see whether there was fragmentation, whether there was pieces of shrapnel in some of the suitcases or in the human remains. There may be some indication.

BLITZER: So, there could be important clues there. David, take us through some of the challenges of finding the wreckage in the water, especially in this area of the Mediterranean. What, it's about 10,000 feet, the ocean floor, below surface?

DAVID GALLO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, it's a serious endeavor, Wolf. We're talking about -- if it is in the deepest part, we're talking about mounting a full-blown deep water expedition. So, you have to have very sophisticated tools, like robots, sophisticated sensors, sonars, cameras. And then, you have to have a ship and a team that knows how to work in those water depths. So, we're talking about putting together a fairly elaborate expedition.

BLITZER: If this is a crash, Dave -- you know, Peter, a crash investigation right now -- which it is a crash investigation. But if some terror group, ISIS, let's say, some other -- Al Qaeda, declares responsibility for this, how does that change the investigation?

GOELZ: Well, it will change --

BLITZER: Because you're an NTSB investigator.

GOELZ: Right. It will change it pretty dramatically. If it's an accident investigation, it will most likely be conducted under the guidance of what they call annex 13 which is a treaty that many of 200 plus countries have signed that guides how accident investigations are conducted.

If it is an act of terror, then that treaty really doesn't apply and the country conducting the investigation is really free to conduct it any way that it sees fit in its national interest. And the French and the British are contributing right now significantly. They'll probably continue to contribute. So, it -- once it -- if it becomes a terrorism investigation, the issue of transparency ceases to be at the top of the agenda.

BLITZER: And how does that affect you, your colleagues, David? The size of the debris field is enormous, obviously. If it becomes, formally, a terror investigation, what is the direct impact on the search operation if you were involved?

[13:10:05] GALLO: Well, it just means that every single bit of that aircraft and every human -- bit of human remains that can be found is part of the puzzle, part of the mystery. So, it just adds more intensity to the -- to the survey. You don't want to miss or leave anything behind.

BLITZER: But, Peter, for the all practical purposes, they're working on the assumption now it was a terror mission.

GOELZ: Well, that's the discussion so far.

BLITZER: But it's not formally been declared that.

GOELZ: That's right.

BLITZER: But that is the assumption that a lot of these governments now have.

GOELZ: That's right.

BLITZER: All right, stand by. Everyone stand by. Coming up, thousands of people with access to airplanes, airport maintenance crews, janitors, food services. What kind of security do they have to go through? We'll take a closer look.

Plus, we're keeping an eye on Kentucky. That's where Donald Trump is scheduled to speak this hour. You see live pictures coming in. He's attending a National Rifle Association event there. We'll have live coverage for you. That's coming up this hour as well.

[15:11:05]

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[13:15:23] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: The United States' initial theory that a bomb brought down EgyptAir Flight 804 is raising new questions about airport security, specifically from the former CIA director, James Woolsey. In an interview with CNN earlier today, Woolsey said he believes the crash was, quote, "an inside job," and he questioned the TSA's ability to stop something similar from happening here in the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES WOOLSEY, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: The whole focus seems to have been from avoiding terrorist attacks on TSA, and let's add more TSA people standing around as we walk through the magnetic detectors. That strikes me as perhaps not front and center of the things one needs to do. The hard thing about in - in many aspects of law enforcement and intelligence is that you simply have to get into people's backgrounds and understand why they might be the radical ones. And the process for doing that, people don't like. Sometimes it's done wrong and it would affect, you know, people's privacy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: CNN's Rosa Flores asked the TSA administrator, Peter Neffenger, about Woolsey's comments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER NEFFENGER, TSA ADMINISTRATOR: Any time you have a trusted population, you want to verify the trust of that population. The way in which we verify the trust of that population is running them continuously against terrorist screening databases, looking for affiliations with people who are in those databases or in databases associated with that, and then looking at their criminal history background check. And we do that ourselves regularly with the intelligence community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let's discuss all of this with Representative John Katko. He's a congressman from upstate New York. He's joining us from Syracuse right now.

Congressman, you're a member of the House Homeland Security Committee. Is the TSA right now effective or is it failing in its efforts?

REP. JOHN KATKO (R), NEW YORK: I'm going to say it's failing in its efforts, but there's always room for improvement. And both, you know, in our - domestically, but also internationally. Let's not forget, we spent billions of dollars every year domestically trying to keep our skies safe, but if we don't do a good enough job at the last point of departure airports for airports with flights coming directly to the U.S. maybe - we may be leaving the back door open with vulnerabilities and I'm quite concerned about that.

BLITZER: Yes, so you're worried like James Woolsey, the former CIA director is worried about that as well. Congressman, the head of the TSA says it's down nearly 6,000 employees right now. When you look at what happened at the Brussels Airport, the bombing there, the belief that the EgyptAir flight was probably a terrorist attack, why are U.S. airports short thousands of security employees right now?

KATKO: Well, one of the reasons they're short security employees right now is they believe that they would have much larger number of pre- check enrollees. The pre-check system is basically a way of verifying up front and doing recurrent vetting of travelers up front and then get expedited screening at airports. In fact they get processed at usually at twice the time - twice as fast as people without the pre- check program. That program just has not developed the way it should have and that's a big concern.

BLITZER: You mean not enough people have applied to go through that TSA pre-check program? Is that what you're saying?

KATKO: I - I am - I am saying that, yes. And I passed a bill out of the House earlier this year that allowed - that basically mandated TSA to do reforms within the pre-check program and I've partnered with private industry to expand a program because once you expand that program, you're going to be able to process a lot more people at an airport at any given time. And it's quite frankly its flown through the Senate except for one senator's got a hold on it. And once that senator lifts a hold, we can at least get that signed into law and start the process going in the right direction.

BLITZER: Would you feel better if the TSA, if all those employees checking people during the security checkpoints were private contractors or government employees?

KATKO: Well, we had a hearing on that earlier this year. My Transportation Security Subcommittee. It's called the SPP program. It's a private partnership program. Some airports around the country have the private screeners, some do not. Most do not still. But we haven't seen a discernible difference in the level of - detection of contraband. The only question is whether or not they can be more efficient from an administrative standpoint and we've been looking at the administrative aspects of TSA and there's - there's been some things we found out last week by talking to stakeholders in the industry which gives us some indication that there's some serious administrative problems that can be addressed, and I'm working on a bill that I'm going to introduce next week to address that.

BLITZER: How confident are you, congressman, that airport employees who have access to planes, or the janitors or others get the proper screening in advance?

[13:20:00] KATKO: I'm absolutely confident they do not get the proper screening. And I'll tell you why. We looked at this last year when I first got into Congress. A fellow got off a flight from Atlanta to LaGuardia and he had a backpack full of guns loaded in his backpack. Fourteen handguns and two assault rifles, most of which were loaded. Turns out he was selling them on the streets up in New York. This was his tenth trip up making with similar amounts in his backpack and he had an employee from the Atlanta airport who would just walk through security, unobstructed and unsearched, and who would hand him the bag on the other side of security. He'd walk right on airplanes with guns. So I am absolutely confident that there's not enough scrutiny going on.

And I'm not trying to say that I've got the magic elixir to everything, but we've passed a very far reaching access control bill that flew out of the House as well and in also sitting over in the Senate waiting to get passed as well. And that would really beef up the scrutiny for employees nationwide. That's - we must do that.

BLITZER: Congressman Katko, thanks very much for joining us.

KATKO: Thank you very much. Any time.

BLITZER: John Katko from New York. Coming up, France's Charles de Gaulle Airport, the departure point for

the doomed flight, stepping up security right now, facing scrutiny after 85 employees actually lost their security clearances for alleged radicalization. We have details. That's next.

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[13:25:43] BLITZER: France is moving quickly right now to try to enhance security in the wake of the crash of EgyptAir Flight 804. Sixty-six people were on board. The flight originated at Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris. The French interior ministry now says it's a necessity to reinforce security at the airport.

Joining us now from Bahrain is Nathalie Goulet. She's a member of the French senate, the head of the commission of inquiry into French and European jihadi networks.

Thanks so much for joining us.

Have you been presented any evidence that this was indeed a terror attack?

NATHALIE GOULET, MEMBER OF THE FRENCH SENATE: Not yet. Absolutely not. We have no evidence yet. Absolutely not.

BLITZER: What is your working assumption? What is your working assumption?

GOULET: Well, first, we have to be cautioned, but then regarding the security of the French airport, I would like to underline that first of all we are under heavy state of emergency since November. And I think that we increase the level of security in the airport. That is a - it's a very strong assessment.

BLITZER: As you know there were - there were reports that last year maybe 40 or 50 or 60 airport employees were removed from their security clearances because they supposedly had jihadi connections and at the time they had access to planes. Tell us about that.

GOULET: Well, you know, airport is like a little town, you know. For Paris airport, you have almost 80,000 people. And (INAUDIBLE) the French system regarding the privacy and so on (INAUDIBLE) across the databases. But at the end of the day, and especially after November, the police discover that 80 people were suspected to have link with terrorism. And then we - their clearance have been redrawn as a matter of fact after this double check of their ability and of their past and regarding the databases. But previously, we have to admit that we didn't have this kind of control, unfortunately.

BLITZER: Well, do you believe that the security situation at Charles de Gaulle Airport right now is very, very strong or could it be better?

GOULET: It always could be better. You know, I was listening to the previous man who was talking with you and said that we always can improve more regarding security. But at the same time, nobody wants to slow down the traffic. So we have to increase the control, but at the same time, the traffic is increasing too. So it will be very challenging. We saw that also in Brussels and this time we really don't know what happened. So we have to be really cautious about any kind of conclusion. But at the same time, that could be a good approach (INAUDIBLE) to increase the control and especially the databases of the people and the - all the connections they could have and have a better control on the employees and also on the checking process.

BLITZER: Nathalie Goulet, a member of the French senate, thanks so much for joining us. Good luck.

GOULET: Bye.

BLITZER: One part of the investigation will be centered on the Charles de Gaulle Airport. Of the 86,000 workers there, as we just mentioned, as many as 85, 85 had their security clearances revoked recently for various reasons.

Joining us now from New York is Miles O'Brien. He's our CNN aviation and science correspondent. He is the CNN - he is the PBS, I should say, aviation and science correspondent for the PBS "News Hour." Also joining us, Phil Mudd, CNN counterterrorism analyst, former CIA counterterrorism official.

Guys, thanks very much for joining us.

Phil, what do you think is best - who is best equipped right now to investigate this crash?

[13:29:46] PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: You've got parallel investigations. You've got to have flight investigators looking at the physical property of the aircraft. People like me from the intelligence business don't know much about that kind of thing unless you have a missile involved, which we didn't appear to have in this case. You have to have people like TSA involved in looking at the physical security in Paris and looking at screening procedures at the Transportation Security Administration. The intelligence guys, people like me back at the CIA and the FBI, are looking at people. That is flight manifests