Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Egypt: Plane Debris Found; France: Plane Sent Smoke Alerts Just Before Crash; New Images Emerge Of EgyptAir Debris; France: "No Theory Ruled Out" In EgyptAir Crash; Trump On NRA Endorsement: "It's A Fantastic Honor"; Libertarian Gary Johnson Polling At 10 Percent; First Audio Of EgyptAir Pilot Released. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired May 21, 2016 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00] FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, NEWSROOM HOST: And we're hoping through much more analysis, experts we're going to have as well today, to help us understand where -- does this help define what happened, what brought that plane down.

CHRISTI PAUL, NEW DAY CO-HOST: Absolutely.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thank you so much.

PAUL: Thank you. Have a good day.

WHITFIELD: Appreciate it. All right, it is 11:00 on the East coast. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. NEWSROOM starts right now.

All right, this major development in the search for EgyptAir Flight 804. The Egyptian military releasing first pictures now of debris from the airplane. Seats, life vests and suitcases believed to be from that plane all found in the Mediterranean Sea.

Part of the focus now shifting to the plane's ACAR systems. It's the communication system in the nose of the plane that sends signals to the ground about how the aircraft is functioning. At cruising attitude of about 37,000 feet, the system started sending signals that something was wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

EDDIE MICELI, AVIATION SAFETY AND SECURITY ADVISOR: The ACAR system sends four key signals, codes. The first one, the co-pilot's window recorded a higher than usual heat. Number two, within one-second difference, the electronic bay or the avionics bay, which is located right below the pilot, the smoke detector went off. Also at the same time, the forward lavatory smoke detector went off.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, NEW DAY CO-HOST: Yes.

MICELI: And then, here is the key. The flight director system, the FMF, went completely dead, and the aircraft ceased transmitting signals on the transponder.

(END VIDEOTAPE) WHITFIELD: Egyptian officials are focusing on terror as the likely cause of the crash, but no one has claimed responsibility. Investigators are stressing that right now every possibility is on the table.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEAN-MARC AYRAULT, FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTER: (through translation): At this time when I'm speaking to you, all hypotheses are being considered and none is favored. Our objective is double, solidarity with the families but also transparency to them about the circumstances of the disappearance of this flight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: CNN's Nick Robertson is live for us on the Greek Island of Crete with the latest.

So Nic, the weather now starting to play a larger part in the search efforts in what way?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Sure, Fredericka. Well, we've we brought you right down to the coastline here. We're inshore, if you will. Compared to where the recovery effort is, it's about 100 miles out to sea.

But look at these waves here. There are white tops. There's a swell out there. The wind has really picked. Compared to yesterday, this is almost like a millpond.

Now, those pieces of debris are relatively small, bits of chair, bits of luggage. They're relatively small. They're going to be very, very difficult to find in choppy seas like this with a lot of white tops. That's why we're right down on the water beside here, as you can just see how much the weather has changed. That's going to affect the recovery effort.

What Greek authorities are telling us, and they've got two military transport aircrafts on standby here to go and fly over -- low over that recovery area, they're on standby. They're telling us that because some debris has been found, that is good news in a way. They can focus better on where the plane might have gone down.

And looking at an area radius of about 40 miles, that's 5,000 square miles. So it's a large area. The difficulty, of course, finding the debris as the weather deteriorates. The wind is going to pick up, we're told, in the next couple of days here, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, Nic Robertson, thanks so much. We'll check back with you. Appreciate it.

All right, I want to bring in Les Abend. He is a contributing editor of "Flying" magazine and a Boeing 777 captain. And Bob Baer is a CNN intelligence and security analyst and a former CIA operative. Good to see both of you. All right, so Les, you know, these are some of the first images

released by Egyptian authorities. The life vest, pieces of the wreckage. Does anything about these items -- will there be any discernible, distinguishable clues that could help everyone understand what brought this plane down?

LES ABEND, FLYING MAGAZINE CONTRIBUTING EDITOR: Well, absolutely, Fredricka. The -- if there's anything in regard to residue from an explosive device, that certainly has the possibility of showing up there. The way -- the way these debris pieces are fragmented might indicate, you know, what type of explosion. Or let's go back to the other scenario where the airplane possibly broke up in flight before it impacted the water.

These are all clues that accident investigators will use during their field investigation to determine, you know, what may have happened. You know, my gut feeling, it looks like the airplane, to me, with all those pieces broke up in flight at some point in time.

WHITFIELD: And then, Les, just, you know, back to that vest. Apparently, we heard it in Nic Robertson's reporting, the vest was found unwrapped. But does that say anything in particular to you?

ABEND: Not necessarily, Fredricka, because, you know, pieces hurtling toward the ground do strange things. Sometimes they stay intact. Sometimes they unwrap. It's too early really to tell, and I think with the radar data that we, it doesn't seem to indicate that this thing came down in a nice, slow manner. You know, the comparison we always use is the A320 that landed in the Hudson River in 2009 with Captain Sullenberger.

WHITFIELD: Yes, with a much more controlled landing. But in this case --

ABEND: Absolutely.

WHITFIELD: -- clearly, you know, evidence not leaning toward that. And the impact into water and a breakup in the air is just, you know, so ferocious, isn't it, just by virtue of the speed that the plane may have been going.

So Bob, French aviation officials have confirmed the plane sent these automatic messages about the smoke. And we talked about at the very top we had an expert, you know, laying out the four signals that were sent.

So this plane was saying it was in trouble. Is that enough information to try to discern whether it was a mechanical problem, something going wrong with the plane or whether that was imposed by some sort of explosive device or any kind of other, you know, human manipulation?

BOB BAER, INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Fred, let me go out on a limb here. This is all hypothetical, and, you know, once we get the black box and the voice recording, this could all change.

But the first signal that comes out of the airplane, I believe, was at 2:26, and that is the cockpit window was open or breached.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

BAER: For me, having been involved in this sort of stuff before, the best way to sabotage an airplane is in the cockpit. You know, and if that was some sort of heat signal that breached that window or there had been a device put on the cock pick and then the smoke appearing in the forward laboratory, is all consistent with a bomb attack.

Again, this could all be changed once we get the evidence. But you simply look at this flight coming out of Paris, which is under threat, and Egypt, which is clearly under threat from the Islamic State, and people are asking why is there no claim.

WHITFIELD: Right.

BAER: Well, you just don't know. Just maybe --

WHITFIELD: It's been two days now, however, after the Sharm el- Sheikh, that plane going down, it took some time, too, before there was a claim of responsibility.

BAER: Well, also, you know, the worst case scenario is these people are planning other attacks and why alert airports all around the world that there's some sort of device they can get in the cockpit. There's all sorts of reasons, and terrorist group do not follow single play books.

So we can't say for sure. You know, if we don't find that black box --

WHITFIELD: Yes.

BAER: -- I don't think we may ever know.

WHITFIELD: OK, and we are going to talk about that coming up as well. So Les Abend, Bob Baer, thanks so much for now. Appreciate it. We'll see you again momentarily.

All right, meantime, Paris' Charles de Gaulle airport sends scores of flights directly to the United States every day. But the EgyptAir disaster prompting U.S. airports now to take a harder look at security and its own staff.

And then there are two flight recorders on the downed EgyptAir flight, just as on most aircraft. What those boxes look like and what they could contain, all of that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: New questions are being raised about how to improve airport security after that catastrophic demise of EgyptAir Flight 804 and specifically, concerns about the airport in Paris.

Just this morning, former CIA director, James Woolsey, outlined his concerns about flying his family in and out of Paris' Charles de Gaulle airport. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMES WOOLSEY, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: I think I'd think twice about it but -- and especially during the forthcoming soccer championships, I think I'd be worried about it. I might still decide to do it. I just got back from flying to Europe not long ago. But it's something that people should start thinking about.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right, there are two airports in Paris, Charles de Gaulle being one of them, Orly the other. So with heightened concerns over airport security, CNN's Tom Foreman takes a closer look at how many individuals might have actually had access to EgyptAir Flight 804 before it took off.

TOM FOREMAN: Hey, Fredricka. At the time this plane went down, there should have been 2 people in the cockpit, 5 crew members in the cabin, 3 security people here marked in red and 56 passengers. They all have to be looked at. But let's sweep this plane back to Charles de Gaulle airport at the gate and look at this area right around the plane, and the number of you have to investigate jumps very quickly. Why?

Well, there are ground maintenance crews, people who have to come in and hook up fuel lines and chalk the wheels, things like that. There are luggage handlers who put dozens of bags on and off. There may be cleaners who have to tidy up a little bit. There can be caterers who have to put in beverages and food. And there can be gate agents who are sorting out tickets and where people are seated.

Easily on a plane this size, that gets you to at least 35 people who would have direct access to the plane. Now let's expand it just a little bit and say what about this area next to the plane over here? Maybe the one over here. These people are only 50, 100 steps away from this area. That can easily triple this number. You can move this up to over 100.

And if you include everyone who has some sort of security badge in this airport who can get into some sort of secure area, then it really goes wild, because that number we are told is 86,000. It made us wonder, what about this country? What about the United States of America?

How many people hold badges out there that give them some access to some sort of secure area in a U.S. airport? Turns out, just last year, Homeland Security gave us a number, 3.7 million people, Fredricka. That's a lot of folks to keep track of.

WHITFIELD: It is, indeed. Tom foreman, thanks so much.

So the issue of security is nothing new to our next guest. Joining me is the former director of the United States Secret Service and also the man who oversaw the initial startup of the Transportation Security Administration, TSA, John Magaw.

John, good to see you. JOHN MAGAW, FORMER DIRECTOR, U.S. SECRET SERVICE: Good morning,

Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: So you testified before Congress in 2002 that the TSA needed to employee more screeners. Congress gave the TSA $34 million last week to alleviate the problem of staffing.

Do you have think this is going to help? I guess better comfort travelers that enough is being done, the most is being done to secure our airways?

MAGAW: Well, let me -- I can tell you what we've been working on the last five or six days, Secretary Johnson and the admiral in charge of TSA. What we have done is picked out -- they have done is picked out five basic areas where we can work a little better.

For instance, it's not only the airport, it's not only TSA, it's the airlines, it's also Congress and it's also the traveling public. Let me just explain very quickly what those things are.

Well, first of all, the problem with the public sometimes is that they don't listen as they go through the lines. So what the airline is doing at their own cost is they're putting people along that line saying remember to take all these things out of your pocket, here are some containers to put them in. They're going to do some of the things that our TSOs, our screeners, are doing now, and so that'll free up some screeners. But they're going to do that.

They're also going to follow it all the way down the line and move those bins. There's thousands of armed people who run through the screener, and then it shuts the whole line down while they determine -- they take the weapon and then they figure out what's going on.

So trying to find every way to move people along. And the airlines have really jumped up and helped. That's going to free screeners to maybe open up another gate.

WHITFIELD: And how, in your view, are the extent of the responsibility of TSA as well as airlines to assure those who are working on planes? Because now we're hearing all kind of potential scenarios involving this EgyptAir.

If potentially there was anything placed on it or if there was any malfunction, can it be blamed on any kind of ground crew that may have had their hands on EgyptAir? So then as we talk about the safety of planes in the United States and you talk about TSA and the responsibility of the airlines, how do you see that level of cooperation, those assurances being placed on protecting the airlines, the aircraft?

MAGAW: Well, we call -- yes, we call that the back side of the airport, and that has received a lot of attention in the last two years since they've had some incidents where things have been put on aircraft at that location, everything from the cleaning crews and coming through the back gates and over fences and all of those kind of things. So that part is being screened very, very carefully. The other -- but

it is, like anything else, if you don't spend a lot of time at it constantly, every day, every minute, there is a chance for that to leak through.

Maybe what I would say also is the last gentleman talked about I don't know if I'd fly out of Paris. Anything coming out of Paris to the United States --

WHITFIELD: Yes.

MAGAW: -- is overseen by TSA. We have TSA personnel there that oversee and work with the local French security people to make sure that the standards that we have here in the United States are also applied there when the plane is coming from Paris to the United States.

WHITFIELD: All right, we're going to leave it right there for now. John Magaw, thank you so much. We'll be talking more about U.S. airport security later on.

All right, plus, luggage, seats, human remains have been found but not the key evidence, the key piece of evidence that would be the black boxes. Victor Blackwell explains why these boxes are key to solving the mystery. Victor?

BLACKWELL: Yes, this is the flight data recorder. We call it the black box. It measures every technical parameter of a flight. In just a moment, we're going to talk about some of the most important. And you'll hear from an expert who says as sophisticated as this device is, this is not enough.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. As we get more new images of debris from EgyptAir Flight 804, the most critical pieces crews are searching for are the flight data and voice recorders, also known as the black boxes. Those devices could help solve the mystery of what happened.

Our Victor Blackwell joining me now. So Victor, you have an up close, you know, and personal black box. It's not black. They're usually orange so they see them no matter what, mountainous or, you know, in water.

BLACKWELL: Underwater, yes.

WHITFIELD: Tell me more about this.

BLACKWELL: So the color helps the investigators find them easily in these wreckage scenes. It's called the black box. Reporters actually gave it the nickname back in the '50s and '60s when they went to mainstream and then mandatory. Because there are so many parameters that are measured here, they thought it was black magic on the inside of this black box. But it measures hundreds, maybe thousands of parameters. We're talking

speed, flight path, pitch, climb. Again, they go on. Acceleration as well. It will measure everything in that flight from Paris to Cairo. Tell investigators what went right and what went wrong.

So I went down recently to speak with an investigator, an expert on black boxes, to find out why this is still not enough.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ABDUL MULBERRY, CEO, GA TELESIS: They consist of three parts. You've got the element which records and the power unit in the back.

BLACKWELL: Abdul, these are the beacons that are sending out these pings, right?

MULBERRY: Yes. Yes, they are. There is a sensor on the sides here that are activated by water.

BLACKWELL: OK.

MULBERRY: And once those are activated, they will send out a ping signal that will be picked up by tracking devices that will look for these specific pings.

BLACKWELL: What's the possibility -- I'm seeing that these are just simple screws here that the beacon isn't connected to the black box, that it's -- they're different places.

MULBERRY: Yes. Well, first and foremost, the beacon is self- contained. So it will -- it has its own power.

BLACKWELL: OK.

MULBERRY: So it is running on its own, and if it's dislodged, it will still send out its signal, and hopefully that's close to where the rest of the unit is.

But these are put in the vertical stabilizer of the aircraft where it's typically the last part of an aircraft to impact whatever it's impacting. So typically, these are very close to -- if not still attached to the aircraft.

BLACKWELL: Let me ask you this. Do you think it's time to rethink the concept of the black box? Maybe during the flight transmit via satellite or radio transmission, just a basic information about the flight and to store it somewhere on land?

MULBERRY: I think it definitely should happen. I think the challenge is who does it, who pays for it, and where is all that data stored. The world would have to get together and come up with something that would allow them to constantly track every movement of an aircraft.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: And that means a lot of money in that investment. WHITFIELD: I was just going to say --

BLACKWELL: Yes.

WHITFIELD: -- but that's what's standing in the way of airlines wanting to do that. Right? Cost.

BLACKWELL: It is very expensive. I think everybody in the industry knows that that probably would make these searches a lot easier --

WHITFIELD: Yes.

BLACKWELL: -- of course, and they'd get the information real-time, but, of course, the investment is the problem.

He mentioned the vertical stabilizer. Not everybody knows where that is. That's the rear of the plane, the back of the plane. It's not up front. As he said, often that's the part that is expected to hit the ground or water first, and they don't want to damage it.

Again, this is the UAB, the underwater acoustic beacon. There's a battery here. I think a lot of people learned during the missing flight of MH370, of 30 days. It sends out that signal, just a click, every second for 30 days.

Twenty-five hours of information in this in the cockpit voice recorder. Two hours of the communications between --

WHITFIELD: Yes.

BLACKWELL: -- the copilot and the captain, the announcements.

So those two boxes, this and the cockpit voice recorder, will answer the question about what went wrong on EgyptAir Flight 804. They now just have to find them.

WHITFIELD: Yes, incredible information all in these boxes.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

WHITFIELD: That's right. We hope they do find them, because everyone wants some answers.

BLACKWELL: Especially those families.

WHITFIELD: That's right.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

WHITFIELD: Victor Blackwell, thanks so much.

BLACKWELL: Thank you, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Appreciate it. All right.

And of course, Victor, on "NEW DAY" you'll see him again tomorrow morning beginning at 6:00 a.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

All right, also, coming up, take a look at the troubling weather conditions impacting the search for more pieces like these of that plane.

Then, in the race for the White House here in the United States, the Never Trump movement, well, that's moving on with Libertarian Gary Johnson. The growing calls for him to fight for the nomination.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, we're looking at the first images of the debris believed to be from EgyptAir Flight 804, the Egyptian military releasing video of life vests, suit cases and airplane seats found in the Mediterranean Sea.

There are new questions about the plane's ACARS system, the communication system in the nose of the plane that sends signals to the ground about how the plane is functioning.

We now know it sent four alerts to the pilots about malfunctions on the aircraft and sending those signals to the ground as well.

Egyptian officials are focusing on terror as the likely cause of the crash but no one has claimed responsibility. Investigators are stressing that right now every possibility is on the table.

Joining me right now is Mary Schiavo. She is a CNN aviation analyst and a former inspector general of the U.S. Department of Transportation. She also represents victims' families after airline disasters. Good to see you.

And Les Abend back with us, a contributing editor of "Flying" magazine and a Boeing 777 captain. All right, good to see you both of you.

So during a meeting with the victims' families, French authorities reiterated today that no theory was ruled out. So let's look at the possible theories here, Les.

One possibility that a bomb was brought on the plane. Another possibility that there may have been some mechanical malfunction. You have enough information to lean one way or the other.

LES ABEND, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "FLYING" MAGAZINE: No, absolutely not, but if you want to ask me my gut feel is that I think this was a serious electrical problem and I think it originated in the electronics bay because of those ACARS messages.

There's some distinguishing characteristics with reference to the sliding window that we've been talking about that had a malfunction indication on it. It possibly could have originated from there. It's hard to say.

This -- what seems to have occurred is that things began to shut down and one of the important things -- just really on a big picture simple basis is that this is a fly-by-wire airplane. When you shut down the wires to the flight control systems, you start to lose control of the aircraft.

WHITFIELD: Why would there not be any kind of backup on an aircraft? I mean, there are so many people on board, so many lives at stake that even if wires crossed, something's wrong that a pilot would not be able to manually control this flight, this kind of Airbus?

ABEND: Well, that's a good question. Boeing does have a very certain amount of manual reversion direct cable ties to their airplane, but it's a limited amount of control that you do have. Nobody expects the entire electronics compartment to have total issues and affect everything nearby it.

Then again, this could have originated also from that sliding window that's we've been talking about. There was indication on the last segment that somebody came in and did something and opened that window.

Let me tell you something, the pressurization differential that's there, you can't open that window, very difficult, but there was a malfunction message that indicated that possibility was there.

I find it hard to believe at this point. It seems like they were dealing with a smoke situation in that airplane and that is a tough, tough environment and a really long checklist to go through.

WHITFIELD: And so Mary, if there is a mechanical problem, the scenarios that Les was just describing, that there was something wrong, something went awry to send these signals that a window was open, which doesn't seem possible at 37,000 feet.

But there was smoke in the lavatory as well as the windshield on the co-pilot's side heating. Heat also emanating from, you know, below the pilot. All of these kind of mechanical malfunctions, would these have been or should they have been detectable before a flight takes off?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Yes, they should have. You know, when Les and I worked a lot of crashes now together. When he says his gut tells him it's a mechanical, well, I hit the books, and there is something very interesting I found.

[08:05:05]The Australian Safety Transport Board had issued a report back in 2009 that they had had several incidents of this particular situation where the windshield and -- what it was, was the electrical connector and the insulation in the right side of the pilot of the cockpit actually caught fire during flight.

And they had this happen on about three or four planes and it happened at 37,000 to 39,000 feet. And so what has to happen when something like that occurs if you actually have a fire in a cockpit emanating from the windshield, how terrifying that must be, they have to don their smoke goggles, their smoke hoods and fight the fire.

They actually have gloves in the cockpit to do that. So, yes, the pilots would know and quite frankly the clues pointing here that something originated with the window, not only would they know, they'd probably if -- who knows, it still could be a bomb in the bathroom or somewhere else or remember the cargo compartment beneath the pilots, who knows, lithium batteries.

You don't know, but that would mean they had to fight a fire that the window and insulation and connector was on fire. And this Australian report is shockingly similar. So I'm starting to lean with Les here.

WHITFIELD: How long ago was that?

SCHIAVO: It's 2009 and another one in 2011.

WHITFIELD: If that were to happen once, that seems like that is enough for some sort of correction to be made by the manufacturers of or those who would be responsible for that kind of wiring, that there could be a correction made so that kind of problem would never happen again. That's catastrophic.

SCHIAVO: Right. And there were warnings put out that they should check it.

WHITFIELD: All right, so Les, what were you about to say?

ABEND: Yes I was going to say I'm not familiar with the Airbus a320 because I've never flown the aircraft, but addressing Mary's issue, there should be an air worthiness directive put out if it's serious enough and the airlines have to comply with that airworthiness directive.

But at the same token, Mary's point about is very good about this windshield potential fires. However, the crew would have known if there's a fire, their reaction after putting on their goggles would have been to turn off that windshield heat being applied to that particular window.

I think that would have been one of the first reactions and that should have stopped the fire. Why we got warnings all the way down into the electronics bay is very curious to me. Why that would have affected all the way down there. So there's a lot of stuff on the table still -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Yes, and when we talk again, we'll also talk about this amount of time, these pilots likely trying to react to the problem at hand, perhaps there isn't enough time to then kind of trouble shoot in other ways or even call or let people know.

But of course, we'll also hear that on the black boxes if they are indeed retrieved. But I do want to ask you about that again when we meet up again. So Mary Schiavo, Les Abend, thanks for now. Appreciate it.

All right, in the meantime, let's talk politics right here on the U.S. of A. The NRA calling for the Republican Party to unite around Donald Trump. So did Trump's rhetoric help mend the splintered GOP?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She wants to abolish the second amendment. She wants to take your guns away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:41:55]

WHITFIELD: All right, we're continuing to follow our major breaking story, the search for EgyptAir Flight 804. We have the first imaging of the debris, the video showing, seats, life vests, suitcases believed to from the plane, all found in the Mediterranean Sea.

We are getting new video of the search for the plane. There's a hint of it right there of a military cruise ship in the area assisting. We'll continue to monitor the developments as we get it.

All right, now let's turn to politics in the U.S. Donald Trump receiving an endorsement from a power house within the Republican Party that could resonate with undecided voters, the National Rifle Association.

As Trump took the stage at the NRA's national convention, he said the endorsement was unexpected. He also vowed that as president, he would eliminate gun-free zones, but he spent most of his speech criticizing Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: But Hillary Clinton wants to abolish the second amendment. Just remember that. We're not talking about changing. She wants to abolish the second amendment. We're not going to let that happen. I can tell you that right now. We're going to preserve it. We're going to cherish it. We are going to take care of it, OK? You know, they keep chipping away. They talk about the magazines. They talk about the bullets. We are going to take of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, Clinton quickly responded on Twitter saying, quote, "You're wrong Donald Trump. We can uphold second amendment rights while preventing senseless gun violence," end quote.

All right, so let's talk more about this with CNN political analyst, Josh Rogin and Jaime Weinstein. He is a senior editor for the "Daily Caller." All right, good to see both of you.

So it's worth noting that Trump hasn't always been a gun enthusiast. Listen to this 1999 interview with CNN's Larry King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LARRY KING: Do you agree with the NRA?

TRUMP: I don't agree entirely, but do I agree that you should have the power to have a weapon because other people do and other people are not necessarily the most lawful people in the world. I favor you have to go through a process, but the fact is that the bad ones already have them. They're not going to go through a process either. They're not going to go through any process.

There's nothing I like better than nobody has them, but that's not going to happen, Larry. As long as that's not going to happen, I say you have to be allowed a gun.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. So, Josh, you first. How do you interpret this change of heart? Do people call this evolving? Do you call it a flip flop or what is it?

JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: No, I think this is just another in a long line of situations where the Republican establishment is accepting the fact that Donald Trump has evolved or flip flopped and is now saying the things that they want to hear that contradict his longstanding position.

So it wasn't just that 1999 interview. In his book in 2000, Donald Trump supported the ban on assault weapons. In 2012 which isn't that long ago, he tweeted support for President Obama's speech calling for gun control measures after one of the mass shootings, this one in Newtown, Connecticut.

[11:45:02]So it not surprising that the NRA would endorse Trump. He's certainly saying better things on guns as far as they are concerned than Hillary Clinton. But the speech was rife with sort of half- truths and mischaracterizations, which has really become stock and trade for Trump on the campaign trail and that's just the way this election cycle is shaping up.

WHITFIELD: Some might even say it might spotlight at least one hypocrisy, Jamie, that in Donald Trump's speech he emphasized the importance of getting rid of all drug-free zones, but this morning ABC News reported that Trump's Mar-A-Lago Club in Florida is actually a gun-free zone.

And then, of course, we heard that CNN putting a call to Donald Trump's campaign and a staff member said they have no comment. So is it gun-free zone for everybody except for me? What's going on here? How are voters to discern the message they heard from him at the NRA convention versus what he's already practicing?

JAMIE WEINSTEIN, SENIOR EDITOR, "DAILY CALLER": Donald Trump is not bound by the normal laws of truth and honesty and consistency. You might point out an inconsistency there. You could suggests he is against outsourcing. He hates jobs going overseas, but he has made for many years most of his products, a lot of his products from abroad.

He's against illegal immigrants or bringing in more immigrants to take what he considers American's jobs, but has done so at his clubs like at Mar-A-Lago for some time. So it's not surprising that he'll say one thing, but in his private business like do something completely different. This is somewhat of a common trend with Donald Trump.

WHITFIELD: OK, so let's switch gears a bit and talk about the fourth candidate left in the race, I'm talking about Libertarian, Gary Johnson. He is also the former governor of New Mexico. He was on "NEW DAY" this morning. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARY JOHNSON, LIBERTARIAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, I take real offense as a border governor myself, I take a real offense at somebody that says they want to deport 11 million illegal immigrants because it affects thousands of families in New Mexico that decades ago came over here as undocumented workers.

It wasn't this notion of being illegal. It was undocumented and he is going to take and deport individuals in New Mexico that are community leaders who have had children, who have had children? There is misinformation about this and it is absolutely off the charts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So, josh, in a recent Fox News poll, he's actually at 10 percent. Do you think he could attract some of the never Trump voters and pose a real threat come November?

ROGIN: You know, I think there's a sizable minority inside the Republican Party that are sympathetic to the views that people like Gary Johnson is putting forth. You know, I think that's a base of Republican voters that any Republican presidential candidate will want to pay attention to.

On the other hand, there was a libertarian candidate in this primary. His name was Rand Raul. He got less than 1 percent. It's probably a mix of his personal failings and the sort of failure of the libertarian movement inside the party to get organized.

Like I said, Gary Johnson's views have some traction, but his viability as a candidate is just not there in any sort of sober, realistic assessment of this race has to come to the conclusion that he will not have a big impact on this race going forward.

WHITFIELD: Jamie, real quick?

WEINSTEIN: Well, I think we should point out that his position on immigration, though Trump has been very harsh on immigration is actually shared by most Republicans. Exit polls showed a majority of Republicans who voted in the primaries believed in a pathway to legalization for illegal immigrants. So Gary Johnson on immigration is actually probably closer to the mean than Donald Trump actually is.

WHITFIELD: All right, Jamie Weinstein, Josh Rogin, thanks so much. Good to see you both.

All right, in the meantime, we are getting the first images from the debris from that downed EgyptAir flight. Coming up, we'll explain how large this debris field could be and where the debris could be spotted next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:52:49]

WHITFIELD: Welcome back. These are the only pictures of the debris that has been found so far, but today's weather conditions may be taking a toll on the debris field. There are also reports of an oil slick in the area, where Flight 804 is believed to have disappeared.

CNN meteorologist, Allison Chinchar, is joining me now. Allison, the area is experiencing some bad weather, to what degree?

ALLISON CHINCHAR, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, to a different degrees. It depends on where the search and recovery effort is going on because we have a storm system that's been moving in, and its first impact really is impacting the search and recovery from above, from helicopters.

But the more important one will be the one that takes place below the water. To get a better idea what I'm talking about, let's take a look at this. Here you can see the spot on the ground. This is where the debris has been found and where the crash site likely took place.

Here is a look at the forecast going forward, with the next system that's moving through and you can see, again, it goes right over our target area. That will begin to impact the area and search and rescue above, as we talked about, with the helicopters and a lot of the planes in the area.

But the area below the water, where they're trying to collect debris and tried to find the black box, this is going to be the big impact. This is a look at the forecast winds going forward with some of them around, say, 30, even up to 40 miles perometer.

Those white caps on top of the ocean or the see that you often see those will become more frequent over the coming days as the winds begin to pick up. And that obscures visibility, looking down on what would normally be relatively clear waters.

So, for a lot of the ships that are out there, trying to look for some more debris, the average surf depth is between about 2,500 and 3,500 meters, or, say, around 8,000 to 11,000 feet, OK?

Now, the pinger, or, that's located inside the black box, that can still work up to a depth of 6,000 meters or 20,000 feet. So we're safe, at least in terms of that.

But, again, as you're trying to look down, let's say they hear it pinging and they can generalize where it is, as those seas become quite choppy with the storms, it makes it very difficult, even if they can hear it, to actually be able to locate it.

[11:55:00]And again, with all of the storms coming in, it's not just going to be a one day impact, Fred. We're actually looking at a multi-day weather impact. So, unfortunately, weather conditions are not going to improve for the search and recovery for at least the next three to five days.

WHITFIELD: Oh, my goodness, all right, that could be potentially a great delay. All right, appreciate it, Allison.

All right, coming up, for the first time, we are hearing from the pilot of EgyptAir Flight 804. We'll be playing that recording coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Breaking news this hour in the search for EgyptAir Flight 804. We're getting the first audio transmissions now from that flight. It's a very small portion of audio from the pilot to air traffic control out of Zurich, Switzerland.

It sounds routine from those who can discern this kind of chatter on this recording, these transmissions happened between a pilot and air traffic control fairly regularly. So let's listen in.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

PILOT: Hello, hello, EygptAir 804 flight level 370 squawk number 7624.

CONTROL: EgyptAir 804 radar contact.

PILOT: Thank you so much.

CONTROL: EgyptAir 804 contact Padova 1-2-0 decimal 7-2-5, good night.

PILOT: Thank you so much. Good night

(END AUDIO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, it should be noted this is not the last transmission from the cockpit. We are also getting however first --