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New Clues in EgyptAir Investigation; Charles De Gaulle Airport Security Ramped Up; Latest from Presidential Campaign Trail. Aired 2- 2:30a ET

Aired May 21, 2016 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[02:00:10]

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NATALIE ALLEN, HOST: New clues in the search for answers in the EgyptAir disaster.

Plus, prompt, tough action from authorities at Paris' Charles de Gaulle airport where the flight started its last leg.

And in the race for the White House, Donald Trump steps up his attacks to Hillary Clinton, amplifying his charge she wants to take away the right to own a gun.

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ALLEN: And we will let you know her response to that. This is CNN Newsroom. We're live in Atlanta. I'm Natalie Allen.

New clues emerging about Egypt flight 804 - EgyptAir flight 804, but still no answers as to what caused the plane to crash into the Mediterranean Sea. Here's CNN's Ian Lee from Cairo.

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IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: New evidence revealing what may have caused EgyptAir flight 804 to nose dive 37,000 feet into the Mediterranean Sea. Real-time data, sent from the plane, shows smoke was detected in one of the plane's bathrooms at 2:26 a.m. That's just one minute before air traffic controllers tried to reach the pilot with no response. At the same time, smoke detected in the plane's avionics bay, where critical electronics are stored. Finally at 2:29, problems with the A320's flight controls.

Greek civil aviation officials say 2:29 is also when the plane disappeared from radar. Still unclear whether the plane was brought down by mechanical failure or an act of terror. But a bomb remains the leading theory among U.S. officials, even though no one has claimed responsibility. This, as airplane debris, passenger seats, luggage, and body parts all found floating in the Mediterranean. This satellite image taken over the search area 180 miles north of the port city of Alexandria, captures an oil slick more than a mile long, possibly from the EgyptAir plane. Nearly 48 hours after the airbus went missing, there's still no sign

of the plane's black boxes. Flight data and cockpit voice recorders, crucial to the investigation. Investigators are also looking into the crew's background. Pilot Mohamed Said Ali Shoukair was 36 years old and had more than 6,000 hours, including 2,000 at the controls of an Airbus 320. His co-pilot, Mohamed Assem, had nearly 2,800 flying hours, the airline said.

With no bodies recovered, Egyptians gathered at mosques to offer prayers for the loss. The co-pilot's uncle broke down as he remember the 24-year-old who was about to get married.

YASSER ABDEI BHAFFAR, CO-PILOT'S UNCLE: He was absolutely a very kind person. You never see a guy his age in his humanity and sense of humor. I would say he was the only one that was really drawing smiles on our faces.

LEE: Ian Lee, CNN, Cairo.

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ALLEN: There are four main areas investigators will consider in the crash of the flight.

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ALLEN: Scenario one, a smuggled bomb. The early theory among U.S. officials is terrorism, but they caution that's based on circumstances, not concrete evidence. Scenario two, an insider threat, did terrorists recruit an airport employee to sabotage the plane? Scenario three, was it a technical problem? Or scenario four, was it pilot error or some other action? Analysts say all of these of plausible and recovery of the plane's wreckage and flight recorders will be key to providing answers in the crash.

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ALLEN: Captain Desmond Ross is with DRA Professional Aviation Services and has extensive experience in the aviation industry. He joins me now live from Istanbul, Turkey. Captain Ross, thank you for being with us.

DESMOND ROSS, DRA PROFESSIONAL AVIATION SERVICES: Good morning.

ALLEN: I want to ask you first, what do you make of this new data that we're learning regarding the smoke indicators in the front lavatory and in the avionics bay?

ROSS: This is interesting. You know, I think we have to start by saying that it's not going to be certain -- nothing's going to be certain until they find the flight data record and the cockpit voice recorders.

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ROSS: But to me it would appear that to have smoke detection at the same time, in two locations, the avionics bay and the lavatory would suggest that there was something bigger going on, it wasn't just somebody smoking in the lavatory, and I don't think it was probably an isolated tire in the avionics bay. It seems to me that possibly it was something bigger.

[02:05:02]

ROSS: It could be an explosion, it could just have been a massive fire that broke out, could be an oxygen bottle. Oxygen has caused fires on a couple of occasions in the past. There are also sorts of scenarios. If the electronics bay had caught fire but because of an electrical short circuit or something of that area, it would have been isolated to that area, if somebody had been smoking in the toilet it would have been isolated there as well. So I think that something much bigger has happened, whether it's a bomb or explosive, who knows.

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ALLEN: Let's talk about what we know about the trajectory of this plane in the final seconds. It turned erratically and descended to 15,000 feet before disappearing. What does that pattern indicate to you?

ROSS: OK. If the pilots started to get smoke detector alarms in the - on the cockpit, on the flight deck, they would have had to take action to get the aircraft out of danger.

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ROSS: That means getting down to a lower altitude.

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ROSS: Your starting to get a situation where people will have difficulty breathing, the oxygen masks will be deployed, possibly there was actually an explosion, which may have caused a depressurization at that point as well. So any way you look at it, the pilots will be looking to leave their 37,000 feet altitude, where you can't breathe without oxygen, to get down to 12,000, 10,000 feet or thereabouts, to be able to breathe normally.

You would turn out of the airway that you were on, that's been said a few times, and I agree with that.

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ROSS: It might turn left or right to get away from the air wave and you don't want to descent into the path of perhaps an oncoming aircraft. So maybe the left turn initially was controlled. The spiraling descent doesn't look like it was controlled at all.

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ROSS: That looks more like the aircraft at that point was out of control. Again, I hasten to say, it's speculation, but I have the feeling it's been some catastrophic event which has taken place, which has alerted -- activated the smoke alarms, activated emergency systems generally and the pilots have possibly even been disabled very quickly. We don't know.

ALLEN: Right.

ROSS: The aircraft - the aircraft has descended in an out of control spiral into the water.

ALLEN: And I want to ask you finally, what will the debris field indicate when hopefully it's located in the sea, as far as the different plane parts and where they're located on the sea bottom?

ROSS: If the aircraft started to break up at 37,000 feet, parts would have fallen obviously a long way, they could have drifted, they would have -- wings tend to float and flap and end up perhaps a long way from the main part of the wreckage. The fuselage could have gone straight down.

If the wreckage is dispersed over a wide area, it would indicate the aircraft broke up at altitude.

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ROSS: If the wreckage is concentrated in a relatively small area, it would indicate the aircraft went straight in, intact, and broken up on impact with the water.

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ROSS: If those parts can be recovered and it's very important, if they can get as many of those parts as possible, back on to dry land, they'll take them to a hangar somewhere and they will essentially try to reconstruct the aircraft, like a jigsaw puzzle. That then gives you a very clear indication of what broke apart from what and how it happened. You can also tell by forensic analysis of the parts, whether there's traces of explosives, whether there's been a fire, et cetera. It's quite important to try to get all of that, in addition to the flight recorder which will tell us what parameters were set on the engines, et cetera. And the cockpit voice recorder might even give us the sound of an explosion. All of that is critical.

ALLEN: All right, Desmond Ross, Captain Desmond Ross, thanks so much. We'll talk with you again as we learn more, thank you for joining us.

ROSS: Thank you.

ALLEN: Weather conditions have cooperated so far with the search and rescue operations, but that could change in the coming hours and our meteorologist Derek Van Dam following that part of the story for us.

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DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Natalie, and it will change because of a cold front that's moving through the eastern Mediterranean as we speak. You're looking at the latest satellite loop across this region. I've highlighted the search area, I kind of focused in on that red dot you see on our screen. You can see the cloud cover that's drifted over this region. The main storm system associated with this cloud cover is to the north in the southern Adriatic Sea.

But look what's going to happen, the high pressure that's brought the clear conditions over the past 24 hours is going to erode rather quickly. A cold front will settle in. Not a lot of precipitation associated with this across the eastern Mediterranean, the bulk of the rainfall just to the north. But what am I concerned about, behind this cold front, the north westerly winds set to wrap in behind it and really pick up. So that's going to impact not only the search and recovery and rescue operations, but also allow for larger ocean swells to develop over this particular region.

We have a high resolution wind model that indicates wind gusts could exceed 50 to 60 km per hour especially as we head into the day on Monday. At least early Monday morning, and that continues into Tuesday as well.

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VAN DAM: So search, rescue, and recovery operations, ongoing across this region will need to monitor weather situations as I would imagine they already are very very closely. It looks as if the winds will continue.

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VAN DAM: Now, it's not only the winds that are going to allow for this potential debris field to disperse across the eastern Mediterranean. It all has to do with the various water currents in the ocean. Remember, these are call eddies, they're little areas of rotation.

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VAN DAM: And this is just a resolution model showing you some of the eddies that have moved across this area. In fact there's already an indication that the strong ocean currents are in place. Because the last known position with radar contact with the doomed airplane was about 40 kilometers from a satellite viewed possible oil slick. We keep showing these images. It's very tough to see on this. But nonetheless you can actually, if that indeed is associated with this downed airplane, that oil slick has drifted already 40 kilometers away from that last point of radar.

Now, as we head underneath the ocean's surface, it's interesting to note, that this is a relatively flat sea floor. Compared to let's say the MH370 Natalie, that when they scoured the Indian Ocean, that took several, several sweeps to get an understanding of what the topography is like. Here it will be a lot easier to find the black box, good news out of a very difficult situation.

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ALLEN: All right, Derek, thanks very much for that part of the story.

VAN DAM: All right.

ALLEN: French airport security is in the spotlight after the loss of the airplane.

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ALLEN: We'll tell you next how authorities are responding when we come back and we'll talk with another expert about security and who checked airplanes for safety before they take off.

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ALLEN: As we've been reporting, many experts are speculating that the EgyptAir flight was brought down by a terrorist operation, although there's no concrete answer as to what caused the crash quite yet.

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ALLEN: Authorities are trying to use what little information they have to figure out what happened. The plane's point of departure, Paris, has become a focal point of the early investigation.

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ALLEN: Security is ramping up at Charles de Gaulle airport as CNN's Jim Bittermann explains France has been taking the threat of terrorism quite seriously ever since last year's terror attacks there.

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JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Even before it's known what brought down EgyptAir 804, security questions have been raised about its last point of departure, Paris' busy Charles de Gaulle Airport.

The plane was on the ground here just over an hour, but in that time, could someone have placed a bomb aboard? Perhaps hidden in baggage or a food service cart? Or could a terrorist have managed to board with other passengers? Questions that have been raised in part because of last year's bloody terrorist attacks in France. In their aftermath, Interior Ministry officials revealed that 85 security badges, which are needed to access secure areas of the airport, were revoked last year, because the badge holders allegedly showed signs of radicalization.

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BITTERMANN: What's more, after the attacks, they carried out a new sweep of airport employees, again looking for anyone who might pose a threat. But 86,000 people work at the airport and screening for signs of radicalism is a daunting task. Nonetheless, in the wake of the EgyptAir crash, without knowing the cause, officials ordered a thorough investigation of anyone who might have come in contact with the plane and a review of video footage which might reveal untoward activity.

PIERRE-HENRY BRANDET, FRENCH INTERIOR MINISTER SPOKESMAN: (As translated) This is not only a necessity but a principle of precautionary measures. This is not a judgment nor an assumption. There was a failure, but it's a way to continue, as we always have done, to make sure our citizens are safe.

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BITTERMANN: In fact French Officials from the president on down, have been trying to reassure everyone in the traveling public that security is their highest concern. Since the EgyptAir crash, it's been announced that 30 new intelligence officers will be added to the 5,700 security personnel already working at the airport.

JEAN-MARC AYRAULT, FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTER: (As translated) The government strengthened all its measures following the January attacks. Everything is being done to reinforce everywhere.

BITTERMANN: But the French Foreign Minister has also said there's no such thing as zero risk. The EgyptAir crash has put the spotlight on security here at a very awkward time. In the next two months, the country will host the French Open Tennis tournament, the European Soccer championship and the Tour de France bicycle race. Events which will attract millions of people, many of whom will travel through the same airport as the Egypt airplane did.

If there's no cause established for its crash which dispels doubts about security, the impact on those events could be devastating.

Jim Bittermann, CNN, Paris.

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ALLEN: Paris was just one of the stops made by that Egyptian airliner on that day. The plane underwent a routine maintenance check in Cairo. Earlier flight tracking data shows the plane in both Eritrea and Tunisia.

Jeffrey Thomas, Editor-in-Chief at Airlinerating.com joins us now. Jeffery, thank you for being with us.

I want to ask you first -

GEOFFREY THOMAS, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, AIRLINERATING.COM: My pleasure.

ALLEN: I want to start with the other stops before the plane got to Paris. What potential alarm bells might that set off, or the last flight to Cairo was this aircraft's fifth flight in one day. What will they need to trace? Will they need to trace all of those stops?

THOMAS: Look, indeed, if it turns out that it was a bomb that was planted on board that aircraft, then they'll obviously be looking at its first flight of the day, which was Asmara in Eritrea to Cairo. There it did two Cairo, Tunis, return flights before moving on to Paris.

Now a bureau of diplomatic security report from the United States said of the Asmara security, inexperienced operators and unpredictable levels of security. While the British government warns that Tunis in Tunisia is the most dangerous area for Britons to travel to. And we may recall that last year, we had the terrible tragedy where 31 Britons were massacred at the beachside resort. So both areas have serious question marks over the security level within the country and also at their airports.

ALLEN: And Charles de Gaulle airport has made changes in security since the terrorist attacks in Paris. What do you know about what they have done to enhance security there?

THOMAS: I'm not familiar with the fine detail on what they have done.

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THOMAS: As mentioned earlier, they got 86,000 employees, they did go through all the credentials of those employees sometime ago and dismissed quite a number. They're now going through them again and looking at the backgrounds, if there are any links whatsoever, and obviously tightening up the various levels of security. They've got the scanning of the baggage, scanning of passengers. There will be more pat-downs of passengers. Just a general increase in the level of security, which of course is going to delay passengers and delay flights as well.

But the real problem, I don't see the problem as Charles de Gaulle. I think if there's a bomb on board, it was either -- I think it would have been smuggled on earlier possibly in Asmara or possibly in Tunisia.

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ALLEN: And how are incoming airplanes screened for possible sabotage? Say if there was something smuggled on in those locations, what kind of screening or checks would be done for a plane sitting at the Paris de Gaulle airport, it was there about an hour and a half I believe.

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THOMAS: To my knowledge and I could be corrected here, to my knowledge, there's no protocol about screening of aircraft. A cabin crew get on board. First of all, an airplane is cleaned. Cleaners go through. If they see anything suspicious, they alert the authorities. When the cabin crew get on board, they check all the lockers, all the obvious places where something might be left. But as far as, for instance, examining the avionics of an aircraft, that is not done.

I mean, engineers from airlines do have a quick look around to make sure everything's in order. But there are so many little small spaces on an airplane, if somebody wanted to hide something on board there and leave it for a couple of flights before detonating it, I'm afraid that would be a rather simple thing to do. And the real barrier here is the security of the airport workers to make sure they don't have links to terrorism.

ALLEN: Many, many questions to consider. Thanks so much. We appreciate your expertise, Geoffrey Thomas from Perth, Australia, thank you.

Coming up here on CNN Newsroom, we turn to politics.

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ALLEN: Donald Trump ramps up his attacks against Hillary Clinton. We'll tell you what he's saying now about what he thinks her position is on gun rights.

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ALLEN: In the race for the White House, the war of words between presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump and Democratic front- runner Hillary Clinton is heating up.

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ALLEN: Trump's latest attacks on Clinton came at a National Rifle Association event after the lobbying group endorsed him. He claims that Clinton will take away people's guns. She staunchly denies that.

Our Sara Murray has more.

SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump is capping off a week of wooing conservatives in front of a friendly audience.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will not let you down.

MURRAY: Picking up an endorsement at the National Rifle Association's annual meeting and serving up some red meat as he slammed Hillary Clinton.

TRUMP: Crooked Hillary Clinton is the most anti-gun, anti-Second Amendment candidate ever to run for office.

MURRAY: Trump setting up a sharp general election split with the Democratic front-runner, who labeled the NRA an enemy in a debate last year.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've all made people upset during your political careers. Which are you most proud of?

HILLARY CLINTON, U.S. DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In addition to the NRA, the health insurance companies, the drug companies, the Iranians, probably the Republicans.

MURRAY: The contrast on gun rights is just one of the fault lines already emerging ahead of the General Election. Trump not waiting for evidence and sticking by his political instincts as he declared the crash of an EgyptAir flight an act of terror.

TRUMP: I can practically guarantee who blew it up. And another plane went down.

MURRAY: While Clinton took a more measured approach. CLINTON: Well of course, it does appear that it was an act of

terrorism. Exactly how, of course the investigation will have to determine.

MURRAY: And laid out her plans to combat is.

[02:25:00]

CLINTON: We're going to defeat them on the ground, using our air power, equipping and training and supporting Arab and Kurdish fighters. We're going to drive them out of Iraq, drive them out of their stronghold in Raqqa, Syria.

MURRAY: In true Trump style, he offered a blunt prescription with few specifics.

TRUMP: I would say knock the hell out of ISIS, which we could have done originally.

MURRAY: But Trump's promise that he won't back down against the terror group, may run up against what critics call his isolationist world view, as he continues to blast the Obama administration decision to send some U.S. forces into Syria.

TRUMP: I would have stayed out of Syria and I wouldn't have fought so much for Assad, against Assad, because I thought that was a whole thing.

MURRAY: A position that puts him to the left of many in his own party.

Now the Clinton's campaigning back at Donald Trump's. At one point her advisers called Donald Trump's foreign policy unhinged and she took to twitter to defend her view of the Second Amendment. She's never called for actually abolishing the Second Amendment. Instead she said on twitter, "you're wrong Donald Trump, we can uphold Second Amendment rights, while preventing senseless gun violence."

Sara Murray, CNN, Louisville.

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ALLEN: Despite Hillary Clinton's lead, democratic rival, Bernie Sanders, continues to say he will not back down.

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ALLEN: Sanders says that he is the Democratic candidate to defeat Donald Trump, not Hillary Clinton. He's keeping his fight going and pledging to stay in the race until all Americans get the chance to make their voices heard at the polls.

BERNIE SANDERS, U.S. DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And let me also say that we are going to fight for every last vote between now and June 14th. And that we are going to take our fight into the Democratic convention. ALLEN: While some Republicans try to rally around Donald Trump,

Democrats seem to be growing further apart. How will they bridge the Democratic divide? We'll join Jonathan Mann for "Political Mann." You can see that Saturday at 7:30 p.m. in London, 10:30 p.m. in Abu Dhabi.

Thanks for watching. I'm Natalie Allen, "Open Court" is coming next after our top stories.