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First Images of EgyptAir Plane Debris; Searching for EgyptAir Flight 804; First Video of EgyptAir Plane Debris; Trump's False Claims on Clinton and Guns. Aired 7-8a ET

Aired May 21, 2016 - 07:00   ET



[07:00:42] VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news this hour. Our first look at some of the debris recovered from the crash of EgyptAir Flight 804.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: The priority right now, finding the main wreckage so investigators can get crucial details from the black box. How the search is being conduced.

BLACKWELL: Also, Donald Trump goes after Hillary Clinton on guns with a questionable claim about her Second Amendment rights position.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She wants to abolish the Second Amendment. She wants to take your guns away.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

PAUL: Good morning. So grateful to have your company, as always. I'm Christi Paul.

BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell. Good morning to you.

Breaking news right at the top. We are seeing first pictures of the debris collected after the crash of EgyptAir Flight 804. These images just released by Egyptian armed forces.

Now, they appear to show here mangled pieces of metal of the plane. You see EgyptAir there on that H-shaped one there. We see here at this point unidentifiable. This looks to be upholstery from inside the cabin, inside the fuselage, although the fuselage has not been recovered.

And also, a photograph of a life vest here. And if you look up near the accreditation here, the crediting of the Egyptian armed forces, you see there on the tab "EgyptAir."

So, the name of the airline on this life vest.

PAUL: Meanwhile, French officials have confirmed smoke alerts went off just moments before the plane plunged into the water with 66 people on board. French officials confirming that just a couple of hours ago. U.S. and Egyptian officials suspect that this was a terrorist attack. So far, though, no claim of responsibility.

BLACKWELL: And we're covering this like only CNN can. Our international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is at an airbase in Greece. CNN senior international correspondent Jim Bittermann is live in France, at Charles de Gaulle airport. CNN's Ian Lee is live at Cairo International Airport.

Let's start with Nic Robertson in Greece.

Have investigators pieced together anything more by analyzing what we're seeing in these photographs, Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Not that they're saying publicly at the moment, Victor. Key things would be obviously the voice recorder, the data recorder from the aircraft, or a piece of fuselage that showed some signs of what may have caused the plane to come down, like a blast --


BLACKWELL: All right, guys. Let's drop this shot. Unfortunately, we're having some problems with Nic's shot. We're going to try to get him on the phone because, of course, that was very valuable information. But we're having some technical issue there. We'll get back to Nic in just a moment.

PAUL: And in the meantime, let's go to CNN's Ian Lee who is live for us in Cairo.

Ian, what do we know about -- what are we learning this morning about the smoke alerts that went off moments before the plane vanished?

IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this information came out initially yesterday, Christi, about this ACARS system which monitors systems on the plane, relays that down to the ground, indicated that there was smoke in several parts of the plane closer to the cockpit.

And now, today, we are hearing it from French officials as well verifying that that smoke was present in the final moments of that airplane's flight. Now, we don't know exactly what that means, if there was a big fire. We're really -- this is still very preliminary. We are looking into that. We're also hearing from Egyptian officials about the current ongoing search. We just talk to the military and the ministry of civil aviation. They say that their main focus right now is finding the fuselage, as well as finding those black boxes.

They still have not found them and they told us that once they're able to, they'll have a better idea of what took place, and especially to help -- to help verify the smoke -- what could have caused it, what were the pilots saying, these are all very crucial pieces of evidence.

Also, we are seeing that new wreckage, getting clues from that as well but it is still very much early on analyzing that. Meanwhile we do have family members who are waiting. Just like us, they want to know the latest information. There has been some frustration about the quickness of getting that information to them.

But of course, this is still very early on in the investigation. But talking to some of the family members, they say right now their priority is to get their bodies back so that they can give their loved ones a proper burial. Remember, 66 people died in this crash.

PAUL: And you just -- thoughts and prayers going out to those family members. Without those answers, it is so hard to reconcile anything.

Ian Lee, we appreciate it. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: All right. Let's go back now to Nic Robertson in Greece. I think we have him on the phone here. We were discussing the search for those black boxes. And preliminary analysis of the photos we are seeing.


ROBERTSON (via telephone): Well, the -- there are several things we can say. One is that the debris that's been recovered is small.

I can tell you the weather conditions out here in the Mediterranean are much worse today than they were yesterday. The seas are very choppy. Swells with being white caps, strong, strong wind, which means trying to spot from the air or even from the sea small amounts of debris in the sea is going to be much tougher. That means it is going to be harder to spot and locate what could be the -- what could be the actual site of the impact, and therefore help lead investigators to the black boxes.

I think there is another piece of information we can perhaps at least discuss. We don't know for sure. Life vest that we saw in the photograph from the Egyptian military, that is not in its wrapper. This is an indication that in those three minutes of the ACARS warning, the smoke detector and other warnings it those three minutes, that those alarms were going off on board the aircraft. Were the crew able to tell the passengers, put on your life vests, get out your life vests?

We don't know this but these are al pieces of information for investigators and what will beery important, never mind the size of the debris, is can they take some technical swabs to look for explosives, traces of explosives, anything even in those small pieces of debris that could be an early indication that there was some kind of explosion on board the aircraft or what type of smoke even these alarms and detectors were seeing on the aircraft, victor.

PAUL: All right. Nic Robertson, we appreciate the latest from there. Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Of course, the question that families in Paris and in Cairo and in cities around the world are waiting to get an answer to, was this a mechanical failure or something more sinister? We're going to take you inside the theories, try to figure out what took down EgyptAir Flight 804.


[07:11:22] PAUL: Our first look this morning at wreckage of EgyptAir Flight 804. We have just gotten these pictures in a short while ago. Investigators are just beginning to piece together what may have happened based on what they're seeing.

You are looking here at looks like some of the upholstery from one of the chairs in that plane and on this particular picture that life vest, you can see the left-hand side, that tab at the top, does read "EgyptAir." We've highlighted it there for you.

CNN contributor Tim Lister joining us from Paris with a look at a few of the theories officials are trying to decipher. Tim, first of all, I would have to think that a smuggled bomb is one of the first and foremost theories here. Would that be the case?

TOM LISTER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It is certainly one theory, yes. The French foreign minister has just said, we're exploring all theories but none should be favored at this point. I think that really is critical.

Normally, investigators look broadly at four different areas. Was it the weather? Was it pilot error? Was it some sort of technical malfunction or was it an act of sabotage? Of all those probably, weather can be ruled out? The conditions at the time were fine, there was no suggestion that the pilots had rerouted for any reason.

But that leaves you still with a myriad of different possible explanations for the crash of EgyptAir 804. Certainly terror is among those possibilities, but so is some sort of mechanical or technical catastrophe, particularly now with the release of that ACARS information about smoke at the front of the airplane, Christi.

PAUL: Right, right. And it's interesting to note that these reports, as Miles O'Brien pointed out yesterday, included anti-ice issues with pilots and windows that are heated where they saw some smoke then in the lavatory and smoke in the avionics bay, which is beneath the cockpit and inaccessible during the flight.

So, if you go with the theory first that perhaps there was a smuggled bomb, do investigators first and foremost then look obviously at where it came from and how it got on that plane?

LISTER: Clearly, that's extremely important. But they will also be painstaking trying to put the wreckage back together again once they find it so that they can determine what sort of impact any device, if there was a device, had. Normally the skin of the plane would be blown apart by a bomb. Remember with the Malaysian flight that crashed over the Ukraine they put that back together and could eventually work out what happened to that plane, what impact came from a missile at the front of the plane that caused its demise.

So, putting the physical wreckage back together again is extremely important but also going beyond that, one of the other questions, how was a bomb smuggled aboard. And really, all the systems you have on the ground and elsewhere are only as good as people operating them. That is obviously one of the potential weaknesses in civil aviation worldwide, Christi.

PAUL: Tim, if it was not terror and we look at where investigators focus at that point then, I would think would the main question be, was there a fault in the maintenance system of this plane?

LISTER: They will be looking at absolutely everything, Christi. Was it a peculiar combination of events on this plane? They'll need so much more information from the flight data recorder, from the voice recorder in the cockpit to see if there's any information in there which of course records not just communications with air traffic control, but communications inside the cockpit between the pilots.

[07:15:03] They need the physical evidence. They need those boxes. They need parts of the plane to begin to put together some sort of picture.

They'll also be looking at maintenance records, clearly. They'll be being looking again at some of this automated messaging that came from the plane. There's probably a lot more of it. In any situation like this, a little information is a very dangerous thing. There's such a long way to go before they can unravel the complexities of what might have happened onboard this plane.

PAUL: I only have a couple of seconds, but I want to ask you, what kind of surveillance video is there in these certain areas of the airport that might indicate what could have happened?

LISTER: Well, here at Charles de Gaulle, for example, there are 900 cameras trained on sensitive parts of the airport, huge number. They have started to go through what was recorded that night. But there are other things they're doing as well, like interviewing anybody from baggage handlers through caterers, through people on the ramp that night to see if they spotted something suspicious or if there was something amiss. They'll be taking all of those precautions.

But until that point we reach some sort of conclusion, we don't really know if it was anything to do that happened on the ground here. It appears at the moment that the flight left Paris in fine shape.

PAUL: Right. Tim Lister, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

BLACKWELL: Now, if this was the result of a terror attack, why have we not heard a claim of responsibility from a group like ISIS or al Qaeda? The man who literally wrote the book on ISIS, our terror expert, Mike Weiss, weighs in this just a moment.


[07:20:12] BLACKWELL: All right. New this morning, the first pictures of debris from EgyptAir Flight 804. Egyptian officials say they suspect terrorism was what brought down the plane but no group has yet claimed responsibility.

Let's bring in CNN contributor Michael Weiss. He's also the author of "ISIS: Inside the Army of Terror."

Michael, good morning.


BLACKWELL: So, as the days go on now and there is no claim of responsibility, does this make you think more or less likely that -- it is more or less likely that this is an act of terror?

WEISS: Well, it's bizarre with respect to ISIS. I mean, it's true in the past al Qaeda for instance sometimes takes weeks or even months for them to come out and claim responsibility for a terrorist operation. But ISIS has been sort of quick out of the gate. It took them about four hours after the MetroJet bombing to say, yeah, we did it. Because of a mistranslation or translation error, I should say, there was confusion as to the how. There was speculation it might have been a surface-to-air missile. We now know it was an IED or explosive device built into a soda can, which is embedded in the fuel lining of that plane.

But that does not mean, however, that this is not an act of terrorism. I just read an article in "The Daily Telegraph" in the U.K., European avionics specialist thinks this was a bomb because of the so-called cascading series of failures that occurred within a very sensitive part of this aircraft. I mean, the nerve center, the intelligence main frame of the aircraft, which essentially just shut down all the computer systems.

Now, if that's the case, I have to stress, putting a bomb in that part of the plane would mean that you would have to have access to the innards of this machine. And that would suggest that somebody in either Charles de Gaulle or one of the other airports that the plane had landed in the past 24 hours, let's say, was working for a terrorist organization. So had infiltrated the security and aviation industries of some country, most likely France, because the plane does get swept every time it lands. So, we don't know. It's a little too soon.

I would also say the following: ISIS is -- I don't like to use the word "evolving" with respect to a terrorist organization -- but it is changing. And one of the ways in which it is changing is it is becoming Europeanized.

The new head of its foreign intelligence division or foreign intelligence arm (INAUDIBLE) is a French national. His nom de guerre is Abu Sulaiman al Fransi (ph). Apparently, he had a direct hand in planning the Paris attacks. He actually presented the plan for them to Abubakr al-Baghdadi. And as a result of this particular success, at least according to ISIS that those and was promoted to what is in effect the CIA of ISIS.

I've just seen today news that al Baghdadi is due to release an audio statement soon. We don't know what that could contain. It could have to do with the war on the ground in Iraq and Syria.

BLACKWELL: Yes. WEISS: It may have something to do with this. So, we'll see.

BLACKWELL: Let me ask you this. I mean, we've covered -- you and I have discussed on this show the continued one-upmanship between ISIS and al Qaeda in this superiority of global jihad.

Why would it benefit any group to successful carry out a terror attack and not immediately claim responsibility for it? Does this then point to possibly a lone wolf?

WEISS: It could. Or the other option or alternative would be, look, ISIS is foreign operations. They operate semi-autonomously.

So, we'll give you cash, we'll recruit the people that we will send abroad or we'll put you in touch with a network of fixers and logistics, sort of contact points. But we don't want to know too much, we don't want to know details of what you are doing because the more you talk to us through the telephone or Internet, the greater the likelihood it's going to be intercepted by Western or regional intelligence, signals intelligence is really only thing that the United States has to go on with respect to understanding what ISIS is up to.

So, it could always be the case that a cell or a group of agents in Europe or in the region perpetrated an attack, and ISIS is just actually being careful and waiting to find out if this in fact was one of their guys. Because one thing you don't want to do -- they've done it before -- is claim credit for something you haven't done because then you look like fools. So --

BLACKWELL: All right. Michael Weiss, thank you. We are still waiting for more details after the discovery of these photographs of the debris that's been pulled from the Mediterranean. We'll continue our coverage throughout the morning.

Michael, thanks so much.

WEISS: Sure. Thank you.

PAUL: Meanwhile, France is wrapping up its airport security in the wake of the EgyptAir crash. But as travel season heats up, of course, can their airports keep everyone safe? We're going to talk about that.

And in political news, Donald Trump going after Hillary Clinton on guns saying the Democratic front-runner wants to abolish the Second Amendment.

[07:25:06] Well, Clinton has responded to that. We're going to talk about it.

First though, here is look at the current mortgage rates for you.


BLACKWELL: All right. Breaking news: we now have video in, the first video of debris collected in the search for EgyptAir Flight 804. You see here pieces of foam, what appear to be from a seat on board that plane. Some of this we saw in the still photographs but there are some personal effects that are captured in this video that was not captured in the initial photographs that were released about 30 minutes ago.

PAUL: Yes, there were go. There's a purse right there. There are some shoes, as you can see there to the right. And you can see visibly on some of these items that are from the plane the words "EgyptAir."

But again, these are just some of the small items that have been collected from the Mediterranean Sea. It looks like that's a piece of shredded carpet from the plane. And then, of course, that life vest.

One of the things interesting about the vest that Nic Robertson pointed out -- he is in Greece right now -- that the life vest was found unpackaged but makes you wonder -- we do not have any confirmation but with the three-minute span that they have we know based on the ACARS reports, they may have been told to put their life vests on so they may have been opened but we do not have confirmation of that.

[07:30:00] It is just speculation at this point.

BLACKWELL: Yes, just a few, few pieces of this -- the debris, the wreckage. The search continues for those black boxes and the fuselage.

But now, let's check in with CNN senior international correspondent Jim Bittermann. He is at Paris' Charles de Gaulle Airport where security before this crash, Jim, was already very high. And now there are new initiatives that are being put into place.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. They just announced yesterday that they're going to add another 30 intelligence officers to the security force here at the airport, plus the fact that they are going back over the CCTV footage of the people who were involved in handling the Egypt aircraft and also personnel, trying to find out if anyone do anything looking suspicious during the moments that it was on the ground here. Plane was on the ground for just over an hour here.

But if anything had happened here, there is no reason at this point to say that terrorism is favored by the French authorities in terms of what they suspect brought the plane down. But they are doing this basically because they want to make sure that they're part -- their part of the equation has been cleaned as much as possible, has been examined as much as possible to see if there's any suspicion here. It's the kind of thing that started almost within hours after the announcement that a plane crashed.


BITTERMAN (voice-over): Even before it's known what brought down EgyptAir 804, security questions have been raised about its last point of departure, Paris' busy Charles de Gaulle airport. The plane was on the ground here just over an hour, but in that time, could someone have placed a bomb aboard, perhaps hidden in baggage or a food service cart? Or could a terrorist have managed to board with other passengers?

Questions that have been raised, in part because of last year's bloody terrorist attacks in France. In their aftermath, interior ministry officials revealed that 85 security badges which are needed to access secure areas of the airport were revoked last year because the badge holders allegedly showed signs of radicalization. What's more, after the attacks, airport authorities carried out a new security sweep of employees, again looking for anyone who might pose a threat.

But 86,000 people work at the airport, and screening for signs of radicalism is a daunting task. Nonetheless, in the wake of the EgyptAir crash, without knowing the cause, officials ordered a thorough investigation of anyone who might have come in contact with the plane and a review of video footage which might reveal untoward activity.

PIERRE HENRY BRANDET, FRENCH INTERIOR MINISTER SPOKESMAN (through translator): This is not only a necessity but a principle of cautionary measures. This is not a judgment nor an assumption. There was a failure but it's a way to continue as we always have done to make sure our citizens are safe.

BITTERMAN: In fact, French officials from the president on down have been trying to reassure everyone in the traveling public that security is their highest concern. Since the EgyptAir crash it's been announced that 30 new intelligence officers will be added to the 5,700 security personnel already working at the airport.

JEAN-MARC AYRAULT, FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTER: The government is strengthening all its measures. Following the January attacks, everything is being done to reinforce everywhere.

BITTERMANN: But the French foreign minister has also said there is no such thing as zero risk.

(on camera): The EgyptAir crash has put spotlight on security here at a very awkward time. In the next two months the country will host the French Open Tennis Tournament, the European Soccer Championships and the Tour de France bicycle race, events which will attract millions of people. Many of whom will travel through the same airport as the Egypt airplane did.

(voice-over): If there is no cause established for its crash, which dispels doubts about security, the impact on those events could be devastating.


BITTERMANN: And the other bit of reassurance that's going on here, Victor, is to the families of the victims, about 70 some of them were walking at the foreign ministry today. The foreign minister talked to them, as well as people from the accident investigative agency and the prosecutor's office to let them know what's the latest is on the investigation -- Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right. Jim Bittermann there at Charles de Gaulle, thanks so much, Jim.

PAUL: Well, switching gears here, Donald Trump winning over the crowd at the National Rifle Association convention, slamming Hillary Clinton even saying something about his own sons that is turning a few heads this morning.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Incredible. They have so many rifles and so many guns, sometimes even I get a little bit concerned. I said, that's a lot.



[07:38:07] PAUL: Thirty-seven minutes past the hour right now. So grateful to have you with us here.

Six million dollars, that's how much Donald Trump has claimed that he raised for veterans groups back in January. Well, the campaign is backing away from that number now calling it inaccurate. Washington put the amount raised closer to $4.5 million. Trump's team tells CNN the shortfall emerged when people pledged donations but they never paid up.

A CNN investigation from March found only $2.9 million had been disbursed to groups thus far. Trump campaign has declined to release all of the groups who made donations.

BLACKWELL: Well, that's far from the first many contradictions and inconsistencies from the Trump campaign. Take a listen to Mr. Trump on MSNBC earlier this week.


TRUMP: Libya is a disaster. We knock out Libya and you knock out Gadhafi and she thinks we did a great job and it is just more destabilization.


TRUMP: And ISIS has the oil.

JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC ANCHOR: Would you have stayed out of Libya?

TRUMP: I would have stayed out of Libya, yes.


BLACKWELL: So he said there he would have stayed out of Libya. This is what Trump said back in 2002.


TRUMP: I can't believe what our country is doing. Gadhafi in Libya is killing thousands of people. Nobody knows how bad it is. You have soldiers all over the Middle East and we're not bringing him in to stop this horrible carnage. We should go in. We should stop this guy which would be very easy and very quick. We could do it surgically. Stop him from doing it and save these lives.


BLACKWELL: All right. So that's Libya. Let's now go to the decision to invade Iraq. This is Trump from the CNN debate in Simi Valley last year.


TRUMP: I am the only person on this dais, the only person that fought very, very hard against us and I wasn't a sitting politician, going into Iraq.


[07:40:04] BLACKWELL: All right. Now, listen to Donald Trump back in 2002 speaking with Howard Stern.


HOWARD STERN: Are you for invade something Iraq?

TRUMP: Yes, I guess so. You know, I wish it was -- I wish the first time it was done correctly.


BLACKWELL: And now, let's go to Obamacare. He told our Anderson Cooper at a town hall on February 18th that he, quote, "liked the mandate" and then eight days later at a Republican debate said, "I don't like mandates."

Let's talk about this. We're joined now by Trump supporter and CNN political commentator Jeffrey Lord, along with CNN political contributor and host of "The Ben Ferguson Show", Ben Ferguson.

Good morning to both of you.



BLACKWELL: All right, Jeffrey. Let's start with the description from "The Washington Post" on Trump's policies. Let's put it up on the screen.

"Trump doesn't so much seem to have firm positions as he has words that have come out of his mouth more recently than other words." As he moves to the general election and during the primary, he famously said, "I could go out on 5th Avenue and shoot someone and I wouldn't lose supporters." Do you foresee that he will have played back-to-back in what will be ads? What will be interviews for the next six months?

LORD: Well, you know, Victor, in listening to what you were saying there, some of these positions, changes were 14 years ago. I mean, in 14 years, Ronald Reagan went from being a liberal Democrat to a conservative candidate for governor of California. People change over time, there is no question about that.

Hillary Clinton has changed. I mean, I remember that Bill Clinton and Al Gore once upon a time when they were running for elections in Arkansas and Tennessee were pro-life. Then suddenly they got the glimmer of a national career ahead of them, and they changed.

This is -- this is what goes on in politics and I certainly don't think that something that somebody believed 14 years earlier should be used as a standard today.

BLACKWELL: Ben, what do you say about the inconsistencies? Although the last one on Obamacare is eight days apart. Ben, to you about these inconsistencies. Do you think that there will be challenges for Donald Trump or will he be able to brush this off as he has in the primaries?

FERGUSON: Well, during the primary, I was very critical of Donald Trump, brought up a lot of these inconsistencies of things he's said in the past compared to the present day. And it was very clear the voters were more than happy to forgive or overlook these because what they are getting now is "authentic."

When it comes to an issue like Libya, for example, he's going to explain it as, hey, I've learned from mistakes others have made, and this is back in 2002, now it's 2016. The world is a different place, things are different.

When you talk about inconsistencies that are eight days apart, those are the ones that can trip you up in a general election. Because if people feel like you're pandering to them based on what you think they want to hear at that exact moment, that can be exploited. So, I do think that Donald Trump is going to have to get tighter with remembering what he said eight days ago.

As for the long-term differences, I don't think those are going to matter at all. My foreign policy has changed from 2004 to 2014 to 2016. The way I look at the war in Iraq and Afghanistan is different than it was when we were going to that war. I think many conservatives, their foreign policies have changed as well when it comes to how you deal with terrorists and how you deal with state sponsors of terrorism and do you invade countries instead of maybe pushing people back into their country if they invade others. Those I think are going to be forgiven easily.

BLACKWELL: All right. Let's talk about the NRA and Louisville and what he said about guns and Hillary Clinton. Watch this.


TRUMP: The Second Amendment is under a threat like never before. Crooked Hillary Clinton is the most anti-gun, anti-Second Amendment candidate ever to run for office, and as I said before, she wants to abolish the Second Amendment. She wants to take your guns away. She wants to abolish. Just remember that.


BLACKWELL: Ben, I want to stick with you. Does this work outside of the room as well as it appeared to have worked inside the room?

FERGUSON: With people that know the history of Hillary Clinton and gun control, absolutely. Hillary Clinton have been two of the biggest advocates for taking away people's rights when it comes to firearms.

And this is going to be an issue that Donald Trump is going to be able to really connect with a lot of people that do not trust her. She doesn't have a knowledge of weapons either. She's one of these classic liberals who says this gun looks scary so let's ban it regardless of what the gun actually does, what caliber the weapon is, how many bullets are in the magazine.

These are different issues that she has been able to basically just walk out on stage and go, these guns are bad, support me, I'm for gun control.

[07:45:04] And Donald Trump got a lot of support yesterday and is going to get support on this Second Amendment issue because Hillary Clinton has made it clear, she wants to limit in an extreme way the guns that Americans are allowed to own.

BLACKWELL: Jeffrey, let me to you on what appeared to be just a contradiction in the room. Donald Trump called for potentially the Clintons to disarm their Secret Service agents, get rid of, as he called them, the body guards' guns. But Secret Service reportedly did not allow the attendees of his address to bring their guns in to the room. He wants to get rid of gun-free zones. However, some of his properties are gun-free zones.

I mean, will he face some challenges based on the inconsistencies of his rhetoric and the distinction he makes for his own properties?

LORD: I think it is pretty clear -- matter of fact, he has a permit to carry himself. This does have real consequences.

I'm talking you to you here from Pennsylvania. People tend to think of Pennsylvania in the electoral sense in terms of the economy and things like that. There is a very, very significant pro-gun vote here in Pennsylvania. Candidates have lost elections in Pennsylvania statewide if they're perceived as being anti-gun.

So, this is something that in the battle for Pennsylvania which is now going to be a key battleground state, this is something that could really do some damage to Hillary Clinton.

BLACKWELL: All right. Jeffrey Lord, Ben Ferguson, good to have both of you.

LORD: Thanks, guys.

FERGUSON: Thanks, Victor.


PAUL: Turning to the Democratic side of things. Senator Bernie Sanders is calling on top Democrats and blasting them for rigging the contest against him, he says. The Vermont senator is crisscrossing New Mexico and California today ahead of the June 7th primary and vowing to keep fighting until the national convention in July.

But it is his rhetoric on the campaign trail that is suggesting this party is so deeply divided. Sanders says it's clear party insiders are pushing for Clinton.


SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But it is a bad -- not only a bad idea from a Democratic perspective, the idea that a party would in a significant way determine who the candidate is before people got involved in the political process. Hillary Clinton is not the Democratic candidate most likely to defeat Donald Trump.


PAUL: Let's put it in perspective what we know. As it stands now, Sanders lags behind Clinton by more than 700 total delegates. That number does include superdelegates who have not yet voted, we need to point out. Hillary Clinton is just 90 delegates from winning the nomination before the July national convention.

BLACKWELL: All right. As we get the first pictures of EgyptAir 804 debris, getting back to the breaking news, what investigators will be looking for to determine whether a bomb brought down that plane.


[07:51:43] BLACKWELL: It is still too early to determine if a bomb brought down Flight 804, but the wreckage will be key to finding the cause.

PAUL: Some of the video that you're seeing here is new this morning. We've just got it in within the last hour. Some of the debris that has been collected from that search in the Mediterranean Sea.

And as the investigation unfolds, there are specific signs that investigators will be looking for.

CNN's Kyung Lah takes us inside a bomb research lab.


KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's in the wreckage of EgyptAir Flight 804 that investigators will inspect for more evidence of a possible explosive device.

THOMAS ANTHONY, USC AVIATION SAFETY AND SECURITY DIR: If we compare the sides, there is a -- there's a difference. There's a very distinct difference.

LAH: Walking us through this bomb research lab, former FAA civil aviation security manager, Thomas Anthony, says investigators look for telltale marks of each type of bomb.

ANTHONY: C4 is very adaptable for the purposes of the terrorists, because it can be formed into shapes.

LAH (on camera): C4 doesn't burn.

ANTHONY: It does not burn. It releases its high temperature, and high pressure gases through shock.

Look at the edges here. The edges on the black powder are very, very different. They have this sort of like almost coral-like look to them.

This is napalm. Look at all the residue of the napalm that was left behind. That's something that is indicative and characteristic of the napalm.

LAH: Are there countless numbers of explosives?

ANTHONY: There are dozens of types of explosives.

In the view of the terrorist, a terrorist is likely to follow up a success with a similar form of attack.

LAH (voice-over): Last October, MetroJet Flight 9268 crashed over the Sinai Peninsula, killing all 224 aboard. ISIS claimed in a propaganda magazine they brought it down, using explosive material hidden in a soda can. The picture shows wires and a detonator with an on and off switch. CNN cannot independently verify the authenticity of the photo.

As relatives of the passengers wait through the agonizing search and recovery, the victims' bodies will also hold forensic clues if it was an explosive, the direction of the blast and what type. But this recovery will be under water, like the AirAsia Flight 8501 disaster in December 2014, potentially eroding some of the evidence but not all of it.

A lab can still detect evidence underwater, even melted seal. Anthony says it's critical to have forensic proof in an aviation investigation. But just as important: the investigation beyond the wreckage.

ANTHONY: Not what happened only, but how it happened so that that vulnerability can be identified and fixed.

Kyung Lah, CNN, Los Angeles.


PAUL: And as we continue to follow the investigation, I want to show you these new media images coming in of debris from EgyptAir Flight 804. This is part of the rescue, but we have these new images we're going to walk you through what they found thus far, life vests, personal belongings.

[07:55:04] But what they have not found, the flight data recorder that could reveal exactly what prompted that plane to go down.


BLACKWELL: New this morning, one of the biggest anti gang sweeps in history netted nearly two dozen guns and $45,000 worth of narcotics. Most of the 140 people arrested in the two day operation were documented gun members. The city police and federal agents took part in the sweep that targeted gang hot spots in the city.

PAUL: Pro-life groups are furious that Oklahoma's pro-life governor vetoed an anti-abortion bill that cleared the state legislature the day before. The proposal would have outlawed abortion the state, except when necessary to save the mother. Governor Mary Fallin said the bill's language was too vague and would lead to costly lawsuits. One pro-life group denounced her veto as a, quote, "despicable betrayal".

BLACKWELL: Kentucky Derby Nyquist tries for two in the row in today's Preakness. The weather could be a factor for the thoroughbred, with rain turning the track into sloppy mud. If Nyquist wins, though, he'll have a chance to win the Triple Crown at the Belmont Stakes in three weeks. You remember that American Pharoah just last year became the first horse to win the Triple Crown since 1978.

PAUL: And we have so much news to talk to you about this morning.

BLACKWELL: Next hour of your NEW DAY starts right now.


REPORTER: Real time data sent from the plane shows smoke was detected in one of the plane's bathrooms.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I asked God for the flight to be hijacked or something like that, instead of what we've been told.

SEN. DICK DURBIN (R), ILLINOIS: What I want to make sure of is that we do everything humanly possibly to make airline travel safe. I wish we didn't have to face this madness but we do.