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New Polls Show Clinton and Trump in Dead Heat; Sanders Ramp Up Feud with New Establishment; ISIS Claims Syria Bombings, Dozens Killed; Iraq Launches Assault To Retake Falluja; Taliban Splinter Group Meets To Pick New Leader. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired May 23, 2016 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:00:15] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, good morning. I'm Pamela Brown in for Carol Costello. Thanks so much for being with me on this Monday.

And it is more than five months before the presidential election. But for Democrats there may be new cause for concern. A pair of polls show Hillary Clinton has lost a double-digit over the likely Republican nominee Donald Trump. The "Washington Post"/ABC survey shows her now trailing by a couple of points and the NBC/"Wall Street Journal" poll shows her leading by just a few points. Both reveal a statistical dead heat when you factor in the margin for error. Meanwhile, Trump may be inching closer to picking a running mate. He's due to meet today with Senator Bob Corker of Tennessee.

So there is clearly a lot to cover this Monday morning. And CNN's correspondents and experts are here to break it all down for us. Let's begin with the new polls and CNN's Phil Mattingly -- Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Pam. There were no shortage of Republican officials over the last couple of months who predicted a Donald Trump nomination would lead to an electoral wipeout, and with good reason. And there are a number of hypothetical head-to-head matchups with Hillary Clinton that showed Trump trailing by double digits.

No more. These polls coming out over the weekend clearly showing a much tighter race and there are a couple of primary reasons, Pam, if you look deep into the numbers. And that is, the Republican Party is coalescing behind the nominee. Up 14 points in support amongst the Republican Party in one of the polls, Pam. And that is an important point and also something that Hillary Clinton still in her own primary race with Bernie Sanders, hasn't been able to benefit from yet. Still Clinton kind of brushing off the polls, looking forward to her potential nomination. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Poll this is far out mean nothing. They certainly mean nothing to me. And I think if people go back and look, they really mean nothing in terms of analyzing what's going to happen in the fall.

CHUCK TODD, MSNBC'S "MEET THE PRESS": You think this lead for Sanders is an illusion a little bit?

CLINTON: I'll let others speak to that. I just think that I'm in a much stronger position, have been. And the voters who have turned out and given me three million more votes believe that as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And obviously Hillary Clinton speaking to Bernie Sanders, still holding a head-to-head lead over Donald Trump. But still when you look at what's happening with the Trump nomination, not only are Republican officials getting behind him, but Republicans inside the party having a more favorable view of Donald Trump. And actually, nationwide, the view of Donald Trump actually getting better. Still at historic highs, his negatives. But people starting to get behind him and Trump saying this is all essentially part of the plan. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think we're doing really well. We have had some tremendous rallies. People are in love with what we're saying. And you know I think we're going to do very well, I think we're going to do even better than that.

She's ineffective. Bernie Sanders said she's not qualified to be president. And he meant it. And he said it because, you know, frankly, with her decisions, you look at -- you look at Libya, you look at offshoots of Libya, Benghazi, et cetera, et cetera. So many different things. We could go on for days. When you look at her decisions, just bad judgment. She suffers from bad judgment. And that's Bernie Sanders saying it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Donald Trump obviously making clear the attacks aren't going to stop from here on out, through November, using some of Bernie Sanders' own words, something you can also expect to hear a lot of going forward.

Now another thing to keep an eye on, Pam, Donald Trump hits the campaign trail again in the days ahead. But first, another important meeting on foreign policy. This one with Senator Bob corker, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and also for those who are looking for vice presidential candidates, something to keep an eye on. Corker's name has been thrown in there every once in a while. Now Corker himself hasn't actually endorsed Donald Trump yet but was one of the first mainstream Republicans to release -- say positive things about this. Now these two will be meeting today in New York.

And as we're all trying to figure out signs of who Donald Trump may select as his running mate, obviously this piques a lot of interest. Worth noting, though, that Donald Trump and his advisers continuing to maintain, Pam, that they will make this announcement in July at the Republican National Convention.

BROWN: All right. Phil Mattingly, thank you so much for that.

And for Bernie Sanders, a vow to fight for every last vote in the Democratic primary process is going beyond his battles with Hillary Clinton and spilling over to the Democratic Party at large. Sanders taking aim at an establishment he says has rigged the process, including one of the most high-profile Democrats in Congress.

Senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns joins me now with more on this.

Joe, good morning to you.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Pamela. Signs over the weekend of bitterness in this race. One of the top candidates suggesting if he's elected, he would get rid of the leader of his party. And then there's that Sanders sound bite, suggesting Americans could be choosing between the lesser of two evils in November. But, look, some of the latest polls really talk about sky high negatives for both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[09:05:02] SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you.

JOHNS (voice-over): Bernie Sanders coming out strong over the weekend against the head of the Democratic National Committee, Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

SANDERS: With all due respect to the current chairperson, if elected president, she would not be reappointed to be chair of the DNC.

JOHNS: Sanders going as far as backing her challenger for her Florida House seat.

SANDERS: Clearly I favor her opponent. His views are much closer to mine than is -- is Wasserman Schultz's.

JOHNS: The head of the DNC responding, insisting she'll stay unbiased, saying in a statement, "I remain as I have been from the beginning, neutral in the presidential Democratic primary."

Sanders further challenging the establishment, doubling down on charges that the party is unfairly propping up Hillary Clinton's campaign before the primary contests are finished.

SANDERS: You had 400 pledged delegates come onboard Clinton's campaign before anyone else was in the race. That's called an anointment process. That's called the establishment talking.

JOHNS: Sanders saying he's going to carry the party to victory in November.

SANDERS: Virtually every national poll and every state poll, we defeat Trump by larger numbers than does Secretary Clinton.

JOHNS: Pointing out the unfavorable ratings plaguing both Clinton and Trump.

SANDERS: I don't want to see the American people voting for the lesser of two evils.

JOHNS: But quickly walking back that description when pressed.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: Is that how you would describe Hillary Clinton against Donald Trump? The lesser of two evils?

SANDERS: No, I wouldn't describe it, but that's what the American people are saying.

JOHNS: Clinton less than 100 delegates shy of officially clinching the nomination.

CLINTON: There's no way that I won't be.

JOHNS: Taking a jab at Sanders' viability on Sunday.

CLINTON: I have been vetted and tested. I don't think he's had a single negative ad ever run against him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: And once again this week, we'll be keeping our eye on the West Coast as the candidates get ready for the California primary on June 7th. Bernie Sanders is spending most of the week there. And Hillary Clinton heads out west today after a speech in Detroit -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right. Joe Johns, thank you so much for bringing us the latest there.

Meantime, Hillary Clinton fighting on fronts and losing precious time and momentum. According to new polls, her double-digit lead from last month has dissolved into a statistical dead heat with Donald Trump.

Let's discuss, Jackie Kucinich, the Washington bureau chief of the "Daily Beast" joins us as well as Boris Epstein, a Republican strategist and a Trump supporter, also Maria Cardona joins us, Clinton supporter and Democratic strategist.

Thank you to the three of you.

MARIA CARDONA, CLINTON SUPPORTER: Thank you, Pam.

BROWN: So much to talk about in the wake of these polls just recently came out. And Maria, on that note, Trump, as we know, can focus just on Hillary Clinton at this point while she is spending this time and money beating back the Bernie Sanders' challenge. In your view, how much does that hurt her? And how much is that playing into these poll numbers we're seeing here?

CARDONA: Well, I think it is playing into the poll numbers, which is why we're seeing them really tighten up. You have the Republican establishment, as Phil was saying, coalescing behind their nominee, as regretful as that might be for many Republicans. But they're doing it. And that is what the polls are showing versus on the Democratic side where you still have an animated contest going on, even though at the very end she will still be the nominee.

I think that those polls will change once we come out of the convention in Philadelphia. But I think in the long run, this is not hurting her because anybody who has been participating in presidential elections understands that polls this far out really mean nothing. I mean, let's ask President Mitt Romney if he thinks any of these polls mean anything when they had him up over Obama at this same point in time in 2012.

I think what it does say, though, is that the Clinton campaign does need to be concerned. And I have said this from the very beginning. And they are. They should wake up. And they do wake up every day concerned that this is going to be a very divisive, polarizing tight fight, because they are running against a nonconventional, nontraditional candidate who has no playbook, knows no playbook and is going to throw everything at her. They're prepared to take him on.

BROWN: And on that note, Jackie, one of the polls showed that I think 20 percent of Bernie Sanders' supporters say that they would throw their support behind Donald Trump. How concerning is that prospect for the Clinton camp that Trump could pull in some of the sort of disillusioned Bernie supporters who just want a revolution, want an outsider candidate?

JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, that clearly is the danger. The more you hear Bernie Sanders, you know, criticize Hillary Clinton. But while these polls are far out and Maria is absolutely right, they may not mean anything in terms of the hard numbers, they do continue to point out vulnerabilities that Hillary Clinton has had throughout this process. She's not doing well. She's losing independents to Donald Trump. She's losing white men to Donald Trump. This is something that we keep seeing in each poll throughout this cycle for Hillary Clinton.

[09:10:06] So you'd think that the Clinton campaign would want to start honing her message, specifically to the independents who might encompass some of the Sanders supporters that you're talking about.

BROWN: And Boris, I want to bring you in and talk about the unfavorables in these polls because they're really remarkable and alarming for both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, the highest we've seen in a presidential race. What does Trump need to do to turn that around? Will Trump see Trump launch a charm offensive with the voting public?

BORIS EPSTEIN, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, largely you're going to see Trump continue with what's got him to this point. Let's remember, just about 11 months ago when he got in the race, the GOP establishment completely rode him off and so this is going to be a candidate that's a flash in a pan and gone. Now you've said some of the Democrats do it about a month ago when the

spread was double digits between Hillary Clinton and Trump. But now it's tightening and Trump is leading in several major polls, the Democrats are no longer doing that. Donald Trump is going to stay on message. Make America great again, concentrate on economy, immigration, national security, foreign policy, all issues where Hillary Clinton is losing now to Donald Trump.

And he is going to be appealing to those independents and blue-dog Democrats. Now that 20 percent number is very important. 20 percent of people who are Democrats would vote for Sanders are going to be voting for Trump. And that number is only going to grow as that divisive primary gets worse and worse between Sanders -- he said going to go to convention, and Hillary Clinton.

Hillary Clinton is a terrible national candidate. Let's remember, she's only won two layup elections in her history. She did not have to win election to be first lady, only won two for New York Senate and then he was appointed as secretary of state and was a failure as secretary of state. So Donald Trump has a very clear path to the White House in November,.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: All right, Maria, go ahead.

KUCINICH: Donald Trump has never run for election. So, you know --

EPSTEIN: But he's won at everything else in his career.

CARDONA: But here's a couple of things that the Trump campaign is not taking into consideration and something that these polls are not taking into consideration. Polls this far out -- and, frankly, polls in general characteristically under represent voters of color. When you look at Donald Trump's negatives among Latinos, among women in general, and among African-Americans, they are sky high. And we all know that without at least 42 percent of the Hispanic vote for a Republican candidate, there is no path. So that is one thing to keep in mind.

The second thing is that Hillary Clinton is also going to continue to keep on message. And when you have a candidate -- you know, today we have a piece in Politico that talks about his very detailed connections to the mob. When you have somebody who is as incompetent on --

EPSTEIN: Come on, Maria.

CARDONA: Hey, that's not me writing it. That's Politico.

EPSTEIN: OK. Let's talk about the Clinton foundation.

CARDONA: And when you talk about --

EPSTEIN: Let's talk about all the Middle Eastern money that's going into that. CARDONA: And when you talk about Republicans, former Defense

Secretary Robert Gates and a Republican GOP chairman of the Homeland Security about how dangerous Donald Trump's proposals are on foreign policy, these are things that in a general election electorate are really going to affect Donald Trump.

EPSTEIN: Well, Hillary Clinton's history on foreign policy has been terrible and a failure. If I were Hillary Clinton, I would not talk about foreign policy all day.

CARDONA: He has not faced -- he has not faced a general election electorate. And it's not going to be as easy as it was in the primary electorate process.

EPSTEIN: Maria, I would completely disagree.

BROWN: And these polls do show, Boris --

EPSTEIN: The primary was very hard. It wasn't easy and he won.

BROWN: The polls do show that despite the high unfavorables and despite the fact that the two candidates are in a dead heat, that people polled felt like Hillary Clinton had more experience, more foreign policy experience and also it talked about this idea of a third party candidate to run. In fact, more than 40 percent said they want a third party candidate to run. How concerning is that for Trump, if someone else enters the race?

EPSTEIN: Not concerning at all. That discussion has been going on for months now. It's completely petering out. So it will completely go away. Once the deadline has passed to get on the ballot -- and they've already passed in major states like Texas.

Now to Maria's point, I'm sure if Hillary Clinton was leading by 15 percent, Maria wouldn't be saying that these polls are worthless. And neither would Hillary Clinton.

CARDONA: Sure I would.

(CROSSTALK)

EPSTEIN: Hillary Clinton also --

CARDONA: I've said that from the beginning.

EPSTEIN: Hillary Clinton also dismissed the investigation that's been going on into the e-mail scandal just like --

CARDONA: Because they haven't found anything. They found nothing.

EPSTEIN: So her dismissals are not that important.

CARDONA: And they won't find anything.

EPSTEIN: It's that ongoing investigation with over 100 federal agents on top of it. BROWN: All right, Jackie, I want to give you the final word here.

Jackie, go ahead.

KUCINICH: You know, I mean, get ready. This is going to be a really long process. And they're right. The polls are going to go up and down. And you know -- but I will say there is one vulnerability that Donald Trump has. You see in some of the other polls. His tax returns. So you know, we'll have to wait and see if he does release those because people -- Republicans, independents and Democrats want him to do that.

BROWN: There's a lot of pressure --

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: Lots of things that Trump has not been vetted on.

EPSTEIN: As of now he's leading in some of the major polls and he'll continue to do so.

CARDONA: Lots of issues. All of his business dealings. You know. Get ready.

BROWN: OK.

EPSTEIN: What about the Clinton Foundation and those tax returns?

BROWN: All right. Get ready is right. We have five months to go of this and it's going to be quite a ride.

CARDONA: That it is.

BROWN: Jackie Kucinich, Boris Epstein, Maria Cardona, thank you so much.

CARDONA: Thank you, Pam.

KUCINICH: Thank you.

[09:15:00] BROWN: And switching gears from politics, the search for the black boxes of EgyptAir Flight 804 is intensifying this morning. A submarine has joined the hunt in the Mediterranean Sea for the flight data and voice recorders. Investigators are hoping they'll reveal what happened to the plane.

Meanwhile, the Egyptian aviation minister is now warning people not to jump to any conclusions. He told reporters hours after the crash that terror was likely. We'll have the latest on the search coming up in just about 15 minutes from now.

But first, explosions ripping through Syria. Now ISIS is claiming responsibility as Iraq launches a major assault on the terror group. We'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: Another round of deadly explosions rocked Syria. ISIS is now claiming responsibility for bombings that killed at least 78 people this morning according to Syrian state media.

[09:20:05]The attacks hitting two cities that are home to Syrian government strongholds.

These attacks on Syria's coast coming as turmoil grips the Middle East. Iraqi officials pulling the (inaudible) in Fallujah launching an assault to retake the city from the terror group. Tens of thousands of civilians are still inside that city, trapped by ISIS. CNN's Jomana Karadsheh is live in Amman, Jordan with more -- Jomana.

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pam, in the last 24 hours, we've heard from the Iraqi government, the Iraqi military asking civilians in the city of Fallujah to leave. As you know, that military operation is currently under way, starting overnight in Iraq, to recapture that city of Fallujah, the first city to have fallen to ISIS back in January of 2014, a very significant operation.

They have been preparing for this for a very long time. As you mentioned, the real concern here is for the civilians inside Fallujah. According to groups like Human Rights Watch -- we've also heard from the United Nations -- there's an estimated -- they estimate there are tens of thousands of civilians who remain inside Fallujah, unable to leave.

They say they are trapped by ISIS inside the city and that they are besieged by the Iraqi security forces and the allied Shia militias. We've heard the military, asking them, saying that they've created safe passages, asking them to leave or call into the hotlines that have been setup by the government if they need assistance leaving.

But the problem with that, Pam, as we have heard in recent weeks that people have been unable to leave. There have been reports of people executed for trying to leave the city. ISIS executing them and also communications cut inside the city by ISIS.

So, a lot of concern for the civilians. We're hearing from the Iraqi prime minister, asking the security forces to be very cautious and to provide utmost attention when it comes to the civilians inside the city because when it comes to Fallujah, pam, this is a predominantly Sunni city.

Forces surrounding it, going into Fallujah are predominantly Shia. So a lot of concern about the sectarian dimension of this operation and that it could enflame sectarian tensions in that country, something Iraq really cannot afford right now -- Pam.

BROWN: Absolutely not. So horrifying for those citizens. Thank you so much, Jomana. We do appreciate it.

And tonight on CNN Fareed Zakaria has a special investigation into hate radical Muslims and the United States, "Why They Hate Us" airs tonight at 9:00 pm only on CNN. Well, President Obama forging new ties with Vietnam announcing the U.S. is lifting a decades-old band on arm sales to Vietnam. The president defending this decision stressing it's dependent on Vietnam's commitment to human rights. Mr. Obama says both sides have established a level of trust.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The decision to lift the ban was not based on China or any other considerations. It was based on our desire to complete what has been a lengthy process of moving towards normalization with Vietnam.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And during his visit to Vietnam, the White House says the president is having dinner with CNN's Anthony Bourdain, their conversation will be featured in an upcoming episode of "ANTHONY BOURDAIN: PARTS UNKNOWN" coming in September.

And meanwhile, in Pakistan, a Taliban splinter group tells CNN that they are now looking a new successor after U.S. air strikes take out their leader. Nick Paton Walsh is covering this story from Beirut. Good morning, Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Key really, Pamela, is who is the successor to Mullah Mansoor (ph). Now it is as you say clear according to the White House that he is dead after some wait, I think, by U.S. officials to get definitive evidence, presumably from the scene of the explosion, from drone strikes against the car he was traveling in with one man.

Afghan officials, too, saying he was dead. Silence so far on official level from the Taliban. We understand from Taliban sources, they have, in fact, had a meeting yesterday in the Pakistani city of (inaudible).

The strike having happened in Pakistan. Pakistan accused of sheltering the Afghan Taliban, exploiting it to get sort of strategic leverage over its neighbor, Afghanistan.

That meeting (inaudible) Taliban inclusive about who his successor, but it's probably not good news for United States' interests. The White House has suggested that perhaps by killing Mullah Mansoor, the new leader of the Taliban, now deceased, that because he was an opponent of peace talks they might find some moderates willing to take his place to pursue that diplomatic path.

That seems highly unlikely if you look at the list who might replace him. One of the key figures, Saraj Hakani (ph). Now he is the man that the U.S. calls the key facilitator of al Qaeda in Afghanistan, hardly at lurch towards moderation.

If he takes the job, most of the other names as well look potentially to be slightly more radical. And, of course, as we've seen with Mullah Mansoor, himself, when a new leader takes the sort of helm as it were over the Taliban they tend to prove their prowess on the battlefield.

[09:25:05]Try and consolidate sort of fracturous nature of that insurgency by seizing more territory and being militarily effective.

So I think regardless perhaps of the messaging success for the U.S. and Afghan governments of killing the leader of the Taliban, you know, this is a substantial high-profile strike inside Pakistan. The biggest, frankly, since Bin Laden was killed in 2011.

Despite that messaging success, I think we're not likely to see a drop in violence in Afghanistan and the very vital fighting season ahead or we may see some disarray among the Taliban leadership as they struggle to work out who replaces him -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right, Nick Paton Walsh, thank you so much for that.

And still ahead on this Monday, the mystery of EgyptAir Flight 804. Was it a mechanical problem or something more sinister? Searchers get a new tool to help them in the underwater hunt for answers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)