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Inside Syria; Officer Cleared in Freddie Gray Death; Trump's V.P. Search. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired May 23, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:02]

ALAN ARNETTE, CLIMBED MOUNT EVEREST FOUR TIMES: So, in order to unclip, you put yourself at danger. So, you're going kind of stuck behind slow people.

And then over time, potentially, you run out of oxygen, and you go slow, and you develop fatigue, you get cold and frostbite. So, certainly, crowds are an issue.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Alan Arnette, I'm out of time. We will talk again. I have a feeling you think about that Everest summit day every day of your life.

Thank you so much for weighing in. I really appreciate it.

ARNETTE: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right. Let's continue on. You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Top of the hour here.

He's one of the highest-ranking Republicans to meet with Donald Trump on Trump's own turf. Moments ago, Republican Senator Bob Corker, a leader on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, finished meeting Mr. Trump at Trump Tower here in New York.

And their face-to-face visit is feeding the talk that Senator Corker is a potential pick for Trump's vice presidential nominee.

Let's go to Sara Murray, our CNN political reporter. She is there at Trump Tower.

Tell me, what did Senator Corker and Donald Trump, what exactly did they discuss? Do we know?

SARA MURRAY, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, Senator Corker was careful to come out and say, I have no reason to think I'm being considered for Donald Trump's V.P. He said he would say it until he was blue in the face

And he described this as more of a get-to-know-you meeting, a way for them to talk about issues at sort of the 10,000-foot level and dig in a little bit on foreign policy issues, which really have been Corker's expertise. Take a listen to what he told reporters coming out of the meeting. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BOB CORKER (R), TENNESSEE: You know, we talked more about China, Russia. You know, I will tell you what's interesting. My -- I met my counterpart this last week from China.

The fact that he's challenging some of the status quo, it is causing these countries to think a little bit differently about U.S. -- the U.S. And I say that in a positive way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURRAY: Now, Brooke, I can tell you that, in talking to Trump allies today, they say that even if Corker is not on Trump's V.P. short list, even if he doesn't end up under consideration, this is still someone who could help Donald Trump get a better grasp on a number of foreign policy issues, who adds a little gravitas and could be helpful to Trump in the general election and possibly even in a Cabinet-level position if Trump does win.

BALDWIN: So, there's the Senator Corker visit. That's a huge deal today. Number two, talk to me, Sara, about these polls that show Mr. Trump rising and gaining on Secretary Clinton.

MURRAY: Well, these are polls that have the Trump campaign very happy, because there was a lot of conventional wisdom whirling around that, if it was a Donald Trump vs. Hillary Clinton general election, that she would win in a blowout. And, of course, it's still early.

But new national polls show a race that's tightening significantly, Brooke. If you look at "The Washington Post"/ABC poll, it has Clinton at 44 percent, Donald Trump at 46 percent, a dead heat there. And a 'Wall Street Journal"/because national poll shows essentially the same thing, Hillary Clinton in this on at 46 percent, Donald Trump at 43 percent.

What that says is, at this point, if you're predicting a blowout, it might be time to hunker down. This could be a much closer, much bloodier general election battle than we may have been anticipating, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Sara Murray, thank you at Trump Tower.

Moments ago, Hillary Clinton hit Donald Trump on what is considered to be his forte, the economy. Listen to what Secretary Clinton just said to a major labor group, the Services Employees International Union.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He could bankrupt America like he's bankrupted his companies.

(APPLAUSE)

H. CLINTON: I mean, ask yourself, how could anybody lose money running a casino, really? (LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: With me now, Joe Borelli, a New York councilman who is co- chair of Trump's New York campaign, and CNN political contributor Bob Beckel, a veteran Democratic strategist.

Joe, let me just first turn to you and get your response to Secretary Clinton there. Bankrupting America?

JOSEPH BORELLI, CO-CHAIR, DONALD TRUMP NEW YORK CAMPAIGN: Well, I don't know what Secretary Clinton knows about the economy. She's never created a job in her life. Donald Trump has. You know, she's free to say what she wants. She's obviously panning -- pandering to her friends in the labor movement there.

I'm not terribly concerned. I think she is doing everything possible to avoid the conversation about today's and this weekend's poll results.

BALDWIN: Bob Beckel, as a Dem, care to respond?

BOB BECKEL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, just a quick response is that, first of all, when I summitted Everest, I was -- nobody gave me the credit for that.

The thing about Trump is, Trump, yes, he's got people to work on his buildings, but a lot of them have been immigrants who have come over and done their job and gone back over. Here's a guy who is the champion of keeping illegal immigrants out, and yet when they build his buildings, he will find over half the workers are not Americans.

[15:05:07]

BALDWIN: OK. I'm going to come back to you on Everest offline, sir.

BECKEL: Please, please.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you, Bob, with regard to the polls, Mr. Trump has to be thrilled at seeing, you know, the big mo' on his side, gaining on Secretary Clinton. I have to ask how, shaken are liberals here?

BECKEL: Not much.

Look, I'm been through seven presidential campaigns. And every time you get to this stage -- first of all, these polls are useless. They will change. But it reflects two things. One, Trump, after being the nominee, the presumptive nominee, the Republicans rallied around him.

And Hillary Clinton does not have the support yet of all the Democrats, because a lot of the Bernie Sanders people are not saying in polls they're going to vote for her. But they will. The easy thing to organize a Sanders voters going to be Donald Trump.

BALDWIN: Noteworthy, though, in looking at some of these polls -- and I know you say they don't matter. It's interesting. Different days, people say they do and they don't. That 20 percent of Sanders supporters will eventually go toward Trump, which is something that Secretary Clinton is going to need to -- that's what they say. I'm just saying...

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: That's what they say in polls. I have done a lot of polls. It's fine. Let them believe that.

That's like going to the Wizard of Oz and asking for support. I mean, it's not going to happen. A Sanders supporter going with Donald Trump? Won't happen. They may not vote.

BALDWIN: OK. We will see. We will see.

Let's get to the issues. Chuck the polls. Let's get to the is, specifically on guns. We were doing the show live and we saw the NRA officially endorsing Mr. Trump, but then there was the flip-flop on his stance on guns.

Joe, I'm coming to you. Here's the sound.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't want to have guns in classrooms, although, in some cases, teachers should have guns in classrooms, frankly. But I'm not advocating guns in classroom.

But, remember, in some cases -- and a lot of people have made this case -- teachers should be able to have guns. Trained teachers should be able to have guns in classrooms.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Shouldn't have guns, should have guns. Here's who should have guns, like flip-flops within -- it's one thing to evolve over time or if it's something happens. It's another like 20 seconds later, point number one.

Point number two, just on climate change, on a flip-flop, Politico unearthed the permit application by Trump International Golf Leagues Ireland. They were trying to build a seawall designed to protect one of his golf courses from global warming and its effects. He had said this wasn't a thing.

How do you explain that?

BORELLI: Look, well, let's take the gun issue first. Donald Trump's position on the Second Amendment has been fairly clear from the start, although he made somewhat of an unclear statement there regarding teachers and whether there should be armed personnel in schools.

But his opposition to, you know, Second Amendment or restrictive Second Amendment policies goes back to 2013, even here in New York, when he was outspoken against the New York gun law. As far as climate change, you know, you can't blame someone for trying to protect their property and use whatever they can.

So, we don't know the full details about what happened in Scotland. We don't know Scottish law requires as far as coastal protection. I'm not going to hypothesize that he -- even he was responsible for putting that line in that application.

But I just want to point out to Bob, it is funny how Bob has mentioned time and time again or cited the polls, but now the polls suddenly don't matter because they don't show his preferred candidate winning.

BECKEL: No, I don't cite polls. I don't. I think they're a waste of time.

But, listen, I will tell you this. I think Trump's statement about teachers, some teachers might have guns is a reasonable position to take. But he got the NRA endorsement and that caused a big rift in the NRA. So he's running a fine line here trying to have it both ways, and with the NRA, you don't get it both ways.

BALDWIN: Let me move on. Bill Clinton, Bill Clinton just said this. Roll the sound.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, we're going to grow this economy and put every American on an escalator to a brighter future.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

B. CLINTON: I agree what make America great again really means, which is hey, I will make it the way it used to be. You will be better off. And if you're not, at least you will have somebody else to look down on. That is a dumb idea. It will not work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right. So, you know, make America great again, obviously this is the slogan for the Trump campaign.

And so now you have critics, Joe, asking Trump, saying, let's pick a year. When was America last great? And what is your answer to is that?

BORELLI: Look, it's not about pinpointing any moment in time. But it really is identifying this notion that many Americans have that eight years of Barack Obama, prior administrations, whether they're be Democrat or Republicans, have led the country in a misguided way.

And Trump has done a successful job in sort of channeling that by his message. It's been consistent from day one. And now we see that, once he's secured the Republican nomination, more people are gravitating towards it

I think a former president just making hay out of nothing and he's trying to essentially grasp at straws and he sounded off a bit, to be honest, when he was speaking there.

BALDWIN: Bob Beckel?

[15:10:00]

BECKEL: Well, he was -- listen, President Clinton was president in the greatest economic expansion in history. More jobs were created, more wages went up. So, he has got some standing to be talking about that.

And I just wonder what Donald Trump's standing is. He talks about the economy. What? What is it? One of these days, he's going to have to answer some questions, fundamental questions. How are you going to do what you say?

And if you want to make America great again -- Brooke had a good point. When was it not great? And what are you going to do to make it greater, specifically?

BALDWIN: It's a question that is being asked. It a question on a date and time.

Bob Beckel and Joe Borelli, thank you, gentlemen, very much.

BECKEL: You're very welcome.

BORELLI: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let's move on to this. We're getting some news just in to us here, the head of the Veterans Affairs under fire here for comparing the time it takes veterans to receive medical treatment to wait times at Disneyland.

Veterans Affairs Secretary Robert McDonald downplaying the fact that veterans died waiting for appointments. Speaking with reporters at a breakfast, he claimed his agency should not use wait times as a measure of success because Disney doesn't either.

With that, Drew Griffin, give me some context. CNN senior investigative correspondent, you broke the story on the deadly VA wait list. What exactly did he say, first of all?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: This came up in a conversation where a reporter at this "Christian Science Monitor" breakfast was trying to kind of nail down what we have been trying to nail down for years now, I must say, for years, exactly how the VA measures wait times, how the VA can say that wait times are getting better.

And it's all centered around this issue of a create date and when asked about this create date, this is what the VA secretary said.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

ROBERT MCDONALD, U.S. VETERANS AFFAIRS SECRETARY: What really counts is how does the veteran feel about their encounter with the VA? When you go to Disney, do they measure the number of hours you wait in line or the number -- you know, what is important? What's important is, what is your satisfaction with the experience?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: What has outraged a lot of people about that statement is that many people -- and the statistics show that wait times are still a pretty big problem at the VA.

And these are people waiting in line for medical care, not people waiting in line to ride a Dumbo ride or something like that. He's really getting a lot of pushback. Just last month, the Government Accounting Office said that new recruit -- newly enrolled people in the VA system, half of them that they surveyed are not getting timely care at the VA.

And what is worse, the GAO confirmed what we have been reporting. It is so convoluted and complex as to how the VA measures these wait times, Brooke, I don't even think the VA know what their wait times are.

BALDWIN: Wow.

Who has, Drew, who has spoken out since these comments at this breakfast? I understand Donald Trump has -- is one of the voices.

GRIFFIN: I mean, almost immediately, in terms of a tweet -- and Donald Trump tweeted out this. "The Obama VA secretary just said we shouldn't wait times. Hillary says VA problems are not widespread. I will take care of our vets."

Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican Committee, also put out a statement. He was criticizing this, talking about the fact that, you know, hundreds of thousands of veterans have reportedly died waiting for care due to corruption and mismanagement at the VA.

That is not entirely accurate. But you get the gist. I think the most thoughtful comment from the House Veterans Affairs Committee chairman, Jeff Miller, who has tried to run that committee in a bipartisan fashion, Brooke. And he released a statement later this afternoon and he said: "Unfortunately, nearly two years after McDonald took over at the VA, the department's wait time rhetoric doesn't match up with the reality of veterans' experiences. Attempts among department officials to downplay the significance of wait times for VA medical care will only further erode the trust of the veterans the department is charged with serving."

It may have been some ill-advised comments made by the VA secretary, but the underlying belief among many Republicans now is that the VA administration still is denying and defending its practices and not living up to the reality, which is vets are still waiting, Brooke. They are very much still waiting for care.

BALDWIN: Keep digging. Drew Griffin, to you and your team, thank you so much. Thank you for pointing that out and us getting that on. I appreciate that. Just ahead, he once told Donald Trump to go to hell. And now Senator

Lindsey Graham is privately telling Republican donors back this guy. We will talk with the fund-raiser who organized an event where that was said.

And two actors, one idea that could change the entire Democratic race. Hear who Woody Harrelson and Mark Ruffalo think should be Clinton's running mate.

And breaking news. One of the officers charged in Freddie Gray's death has just been cleared of all charges. We have those details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:58]

BALDWIN: Breaking news today out of Baltimore. The second police officer to stand trial in last year's high-profile death of Freddie Gray ha been acquitted on all charges.

He is officer Edward Nero. He opted for a bench trial, meaning only a judge would ultimately decide his case, instead of a jury. And for him, it paid off. Nero was one of those three bike officers involved in the initial arrest and encounter with Freddie Gray. Gray ultimately died of a fatal spinal injury after he wasn't restrained inside a police van.

And the judge here in Baltimore essentially said there were no credible facts to show Nero's actions contributed to Gray's death. Nero's attorney says his client is just glad -- quote -- "This nightmare is finally over," but protesters outside the courthouse today visibly upset that yet another trial ended without a guilty verdict. Remember, the first was a hung jury.

Today, the attorney for Gray's family is praising the judge's decision.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILLY MURPHY, ATTORNEY FOR GRAY FAMILY: I found no problem with the judge's reasoning. And, of course, the outcome about how he weighed the evidence is strictly up to him and not to us.

[15:20:05]

I commend Judge Williams, because he's one of the rare judges that disregarded public opinion. There was enormous pressure from the African-American community to get a conviction.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: An African-American judge, we should say.

MURPHY: Yes. And he did not bend to that pressure. And so, I think that the family's going to respect that opinion and await the outcome of the rest of the cases. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me bring in CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Danny Cevallos and DeRay McKesson. He's a Black Lives Matter activist who lost his bid to become Baltimore's next mayor.

Gentlemen, thank you so much for being with me.

And first just on the legal side, Danny, let me just begin with you. As we have pointed out, Nero is one of the six officers to be charged in this case. He's the second to stand trial. The judge finding he cannot be blamed for Gray's death. Can you explain that?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Sure. That would probably be an issue of causation. Right?

When you have multiple defendants here, the prosecution has a challenge in making a proof that any one of them caused the death, as we understand legal causation to mean. There are also other legal challenges the prosecution had here.

Was the initial stop lawful under existing case law? And was the initial arrest also lawful? And finally did this officer have the legal privilege to reasonably rely on his brother officers' determination to make that initial arrest?

What you have here with this defendant is in that this group of defendants who are being charged and tried separately, his relative culpability was certainly on the lower end of the spectrum, which is something of a risk when the prosecution charges him individually.

They have to essentially say he is a piece of a larger pie, but the piece that this defendant contributed to was enough to cause a death.

BALDWIN: DeRay, before we get to this next trial which involves the officer who was actually driving that van, I just want your thought. When you heard the new of the acquittal today in Baltimore, what were you thinking?

DERAY MCKESSON, SOCIAL MEDIA ACTIVIST: So, disappointed, but not unexpected. We know that this is just one of six trials. This is the only acquittal. The trial before this ended up with the hung jury.

And, again, what came out of today wasn't that he -- the judge didn't say that he was not involved at all in Freddie's death. He just said that it did not meet a legal standard.

We know that the work continues, that the law enforcement officer bill of rights essentially protects the officers at all costs in the state of Maryland, that the police union contract also needs to be changed. So there are a host of the things that the activist community and people all across the city continue to work as we think about police reform.

But this is just one of six cases. And people will be vigilant about working towards the other cases as well. BALDWIN: DeRay, I'm just curious if you -- you heard the interview

between Miguel Marquez and Billy Murphy, who was really praising that judge today, pointing out that he's African-American, really, you know, holding up in a very high regard, respecting the decision he made. Thoughts on that?

MCKESSON: Yes.

So, Billy Murphy's an incredible lawyer in the city. And Billy and I both agree that Freddie should be alive today. And we know that these officers, if they had not intervened, because Freddie was not committing a crime, that Freddie would be alive.

I think that -- I respect his legal opinion around the judge's decision. I also know that if this officer hadn't intervened, Freddie would be here. So, when we think about -- what we're doing is looking forward to the next five trials to see the outcomes there, so that there's somebody who's held responsible for Freddie's death.

BALDWIN: DeRay, do you think, had this decision involved a jury, instead of just a judge, do you think there would have been a different outcome?

MCKESSON: I do think the public has a different way of understanding the facts, especially when it involves the police, and that could have been a powerful alternative.

But, again, we look at the first your that led to a hung jury. So we don't know. I'm hopeful, though, about the rest of the cases. The one with the driver should be different. And we know that all six officers have played very different roles with regard to Freddie's death.

So, we will see how it plays out, but, again, we are in this for the long haul, but this one setback does not mean that we're not focused on the end results.

BALDWIN: Danny, let me pick up on DeRay's final point, which is the next trial. I think the date, off the top of my head, is June 6. I believe that is officer Goodson, who was the one who was driving the van. Talk a little bit about his role beyond that and how this could have a different outcome.

CEVALLOS: Well, with all of these defendants, now that you're increasingly -- you got a mistrial on the first one, now you have an acquittal -- the prosecution is going to have a mounting challenge, because this acquittal, the news is going to get around.

You could potentially taint a jury pool. And you may now have defense attorneys opting for a bench-only trial, which normally people say is bad for defendants. But in a case where you have issues of law that a jury might not be as able to grasp as a judge like here, issues like whether or not someone can arrest and the privilege to arrest and stop, those might be issues better suited for a judge.

But, as a general rule, a bench-only trial is viewed as a gambit, as a risky proposition. Now that it's been tested, you may see defendants opting for that.

[15:25:04]

And it will be interesting to see how the prosecution responds.

BALDWIN: Early June, all eyes on Baltimore.

Danny and DeRay, thank you both for your time. I appreciate that. We will pick it up in a just couple of weeks in this next trial.

Meantime, next, the top commander of U.S. troops goes on a top-secret trip to Syria to visit special forces training the rebels there, and our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, was the only TV journalist invited along. She joins us live with her exclusive reporting from Syria.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: In Syria, coordinated bombings tearing through two Syrian government strongholds, killing at least 78 people --