Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump and Clinton Battle; EgyptAir Crash Investigation; Sanders Clarifies Convention Remark; Kurdish Forces Try to Retake Raqqa. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired May 24, 2016 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:30:00] GINA LOUDON, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Secretary Clinton has been very clear also. He's going to be raising taxes.

MICHAEL NUTTER, CLINTON SUPPPORTER: Maybe he should release his tax returns.

LOUDON: She's going to be increasing costs of entitlement into the tens of billions of dollars. And so there are some very clear policy differences all the way down the line between the two of them. And I think Mr. Trump has been very specific. And, in fact, if you go to his website --

NUTTER: If he wants to talk about --

LOUDON: You can read great specifics of his plan for America.

NUTTER: Yes. Right.

LOUDON: And so I think --

NUTTER: If he wants to talk about taxes, he should release his tax returns.

LOUDON: To use generalities -- to use generalities yourself -- to use generalities yourself and say that he speaks in generalities, it really says more about the depth of your knowledge of this candidate than it does about his actual policy because he --

NUTTER: One liners. I know a lot about Mr. Trump. I know a lot about Mr. Trump. If he wants to talk about taxes, he should release his tax returns. He should explain to the American public why for a couple of years he paid no taxes. He should explain how he could champion, how he could trumpet the potential of a housing crisis.

LOUDON: He has -- he has explained all that, sir. And he's also said he will release his taxes when his audit is over with.

NUTTER: No.

LOUDON: He can't release them until the audit is completed.

NUTTER: The IRS -- the IRS --

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, he can release them while an audit's going on. That's not true. I mean that --

NUTTER: The Internal Revenue Service said the audit is not holding him back in releasing his taxes.

BROWN: Yes, that mean --

NUTTER: The Internal Revenue Service said that. He doesn't want to release his taxes because he has something to hide.

LOUDON: And he -- and he will release them. He will release them.

NUTTER: No, he's not. No, he's not.

LOUDON: And I think if we're going to -- and I think if we're going to talk about -- if we're going to talk about things that we want to know, how about knowing where in the heck Hillary made all the millions and millions of dollars in just the six years during her term as secretary of state.

NUTTER: You -- Gina, you may have missed --

LOUDON: How come she says she was dead broke when she left the White House and now she has more than $100 million?

NUTTER: You -- you may have missed the release of 33 years of tax returns by Hillary and President Clinton. You may have missed that. But Donald Trump needs to release his tax returns. Nothing is holding him back from doing that, other than himself.

LOUDON: By someone who has always been a public -- a publicly employed person for much of her life, and her husband's life.

NUTTER: OK.

LOUDON: And, therefore, it's mostly all a matter of record. That's a different thing than a guy who's been in business, had more than 500 companies you failed to mention when you (INAUDIBLE) --

NUTTER: He's running for president, Gina. Gina, he's running for president of the United States of America.

(CROSS TALK)

BROWN: OK. Gina Loudon, Michael Nutter, I've let you all go over the time limit because this was such a great, lively discussion and I do appreciate you both coming on.

NUTTER: Yes.

BROWN: Thank you so much.

NUTTER: Thanks, Pam.

BROWN: This conversation, of course, will continue.

LOUDON: Thank you. BROWN: And still ahead on this Tuesday, human remains from Flight 804 are now being examined in the Cairo morgue. What they could reveal about the cause of the crash, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:36:35] BROWN: Well, officials at a Cairo morgue say human remains found from EgyptAir Flight 804 so far show no signs of an explosion, but there is still no word of terrorism or mechanical failure brought down this jet. This comes as family members are coming forward to offer DNA samples to identify the victims. CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson joins us from Alexandria, Egypt.

What's the latest, Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, hi, Pam.

And wat morgue officials are telling us here is that while they're able to examine these body parts, they say they've been given 15 bags of body parts that have been recovered from the scene so far, they describe these parts as being very small, While they've been able to examine them, their priority at the moment appears to be the DNA identification of who they may have, who they may have recovered so far. The families are coming forward, 39 families, have given DNA samples so far. We know 66 people aboard the aircraft.

But one of the critical tests that the officials here say that they will need to do, and this is going to require more time, one of the critical tests that they would need to do would be to test for explosive residue. And they say that is going to take more time and it's probably something that's complicated by the fact that these human remains have been in the water for a while.

So this, so far, they can say there is no evidence of an explosion on board. They're not able to advance any theory at the moment of precisely what brought the aircraft down. And, of course, out at sea, a huge effort underway to try to locate the plane. No large parts of debris have been found so far, but we are told so far 18 separate groupings of debris have been recovered. So they're -- what's emerging here is the authorities are getting more -- are recovering more than they've been shown us so far. But the tests on the body parts so far do not show explosive -- an explosion on board. That said, the caveat, of course, is there are more tests to be done, Pam.

BROWN: Absolutely. A long way to go in the investigation.

Nic Robertson, thank you very much for bringing us the latest there.

And still ahead right here in the NEWSROOM, Bill Cosby arriving in court just moments ago. His first criminal assault case now underway. And, of course, we are following the latest developments.

But next, Bernie Sanders says the Democratic Convention could be messy. We'll have more on that after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [09:43:07] BROWN: Well, Bernie Sanders digs in and issues a new warning to Democratic. The national convention could get messy. In an interview with the Associated Press, Sanders essentially said if things get chaotic, so be it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's going to be messy, you know. Democracy is not always nice and quiet and gentle. But that is where the Democratic Party should go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you think the -- you think the convention could be messy?

SANDERS: So what. A democracy is messy. Every day my life is messy. But if you want everything to be quiet and orderly and allow, you know, just things to proceed without vigorous debate, that is not what democracy is about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton is focusing on the threat of a Trump presidency, and declining an invitation to debate Sanders in California.

With me now, CNN political commentator and anchor for New York News, Errol Louis. And we're also joined by Peter Beinart, CNN political commentator and contributor to "The Atlantic."

Thank you both for coming on.

Peter, first to you. So Sanders was asked about this messy convention comments on the "Today" show and here's how he responded. Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The media often takes words out of context. The context of that was that democracy is messy. That people will have vigorous debate on the issues.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will the convention be messy?

SANDERS: Well, of course it will be, but everything -- that's what democracy is about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So what's your reaction to his comments, Peter? Do you think they could be misinterpreted and potentially spark chaos, or do you think he makes a fair point here that, look, this is democracy, this is how it should be?

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think, you know, like him or not, Bernie Sanders feels like he represents a movement. He's not a typical politician. I think the best analogy may be to Jesse Jackson in the 1980s, who Sanders, in fact, supported, which is that Sanders is not as transactional as some other politicians. He genuinely believes in a certain set of propositions, which would move the Democratic Party substantially to the left. And I think he and his supporters are willing to fight for those, even if it means a fight at the convention floor that the Hillary Clinton folks might not want.

[09:45:14] BROWN: And he's already made a lot of headway, Errol. I mean, in fact, the Democratic National Committee is now saying that Sanders supporters will make up one-third of all seats on the party's platform committee. This is significant. In your view, is this the DNC making a concession to Sanders?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's very much a concession. It's one, in fact, that I think the DNC may come to regret at some point. One of the people that they're putting on is my old professor, Cornell West. He is a radical. He's got goals that go far beyond what the convention might want, what the Democratic Party might want. And he's not going to be shy about making those -- those needs and wants and desires known.

This is a part of the Bernie Sanders movement that, you know, really is in some ways using the Democratic Party and using this election the way you would use a rental car, you know, kind of a one way trip to where you want to go, whereas the rest of the party, if you want to use the metaphor, wants a family car, something that they're going to use to go from here to there and use every day. So, yes, it is a concession because the chair of the DNC really has control of all of the seats and they did not have to give any to Bernie Sanders or to anybody else. They could have all been hand-picked.

BROIWN: Why did they give it to him, do you think?

LOUIS: Well, you know, the -- here's the other side of it. The party platform is nonbinding. I don't know what's in the party platform and neither do you. We haven't talked about it for four years. The same is true on the Republican side, by the way. It's not -- there are no penalties for violating the party platform. There is no guidance that goes out to local candidates. There's really, you know, in some ways it's very symbolic. And so it's a symbolic gesture to acknowledge that there are different factions within the party that all voices should be heard and that if they want to sort of make the party at least symbolically stand for this or that proposition, say, you know, free tuition for college and so forth, they seem to be comfortable with that. But actual control of the convention, actual -- the actual nomination process and, of course, who's on the ticket, that's going to remain in the hands, I think, of the party establishment, despite this gesture.

BROIWN: And you raise a good point, that interesting analogy with the rental car.

Peter, it makes you wonder what Bernie Sanders' end goal is here. In fact, Jonathan Martin of "The New York Times" says, getting a bigger voice at the convention may not be enough for him. That Sanders may want to have some influence over Clinton's cabinet pick if she becomes president. So what is your take on all of this? What do you think his end goal is?

BEINART: It's important to remember that Bernie Sanders is not just the cause of this, he's a symptom of it. We are dealing in both parties with a long-term political fallout of the financial crisis. And in the Democratic Party, you could see it with the Occupy movement, it has shifted the center of gravity on economic issues significantly to the left. So when Hillary Clinton goes, and if she wants to choose, you know, conventional people with a Wall Street background to talk economic positions, she's going to get a lot of push back as -- if she becomes president, not just from Bernie Sanders, but from Elizabeth Warren and from other Democrats. You saw this when Barack Obama could not choose Larry Sommers, former Treasury secretary, to be the head -- to head the Fed. There is more resistance from the left wing of the Democratic Party now on economic issues than there was before. And Sanders represents that, but it's bigger than him.

BROWN: So it's bigger than him. On that note, you know, some may argue that Sanders is actually hurting the chances of a Democratic being president because there is this decisiveness within the Democratic Party. It seems as though Republicans are coalescing around Donald Trump. We saw the poll numbers yesterday. They're neck and neck. What do you think?

LOUIS: Well, I think, look, every day, every news cycle is precious. Every day spent refuting charges or getting into a back and forth with Bernie Sanders is a day that the party as a whole, the Democratic Party as a whole, is not preparing for the big showdown in November. So to that extent, yes, it's a distraction, yes, it could be a problem, yes, it could -- could it end up costing the Democrats the election? That seems unlikely at this point. But that's why this question of messy really is sort of pivotal. If it gets messy and it goes beyond the convention, or if there's a big, ugly demonstration while the eyes of the world -- eyes of the nation are on the convention, then that really does set back things in a very serious way. Right now, though, the back and forth, not all that serious.

BROWN: Yes, we still have a lot of time, by the way, before the convention and even the general election.

LOUIS: Yes. Right.

BROWN: Errol Louis, Peter Beinart, thank you very much for sharing your analysis.

And still ahead on this Tuesday, the battle to retake Fallujah is raging. Iraqi and coalition forces attacking ISIS by land and air.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:54:09] BROWN: Well, the battle to drive ISIS out of the Iraqi city of Fallujah is now under way. New images show Iraqi troops clashing with ISIS militants just outside the city. The Iraqi army started its offensive this week after months of preparation.

Meanwhile, U.S. forces have been pounding ISIS targets for days, And new at is hour, we are getting information that a U.S.-backed Kurdish offensive against ISIS is taking place right now in Raqqa, Syria.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is live in Beirut with the very latest.

Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Pamela, limited what we know about this move to the north of Raqqa. It is not, I'm told by Kurdish forces, aimed at the city center itself, t the defacto council of ISIS' self-declared caliphate, but more to the countryside in the north. Activists reporting heavy clashes there and a plethora of statements and videos from what's called the Syria Democratic Forces. They're the U.S.-backed coalition of Kurds and Sunni Arabs who have been mustered together to try and move towards Raqqa.

[09:55:11] But this announcement and this clear military action, because there are clashes certainly happening there, is of no coincidence happening at the same time as the Iraqi military offensive against the other ISIS stronghold of Fallujah. The idea to try and strain ISIS by having them under attack in multiple different cities.

Now, the Raqqa offensive, I'm told, potentially limited in scope. The Fallujah offensive got underway yesterday. There seems to have been a slight ebb in fighting so far today, but the big concern is for the people trapped inside. Ten thousand families trapped inside Fallujah. Right now, 80 of them apparently, according to the U.N., got out in the past four days. Three, in fact, dying as they tried to flee. The fear being that as the artillery being used by many of the Shia militia helping the Iraqi army gets into full effect, we could see more civilian lives lost and potentially a horrifying scene in that city, and one more complex scene evolving in Syria around Raqqa too.

Pam.

BROWN: Your heart goes out to those families dealing with this.

Nick Paton Walsh, thank you very much.

And the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM begins after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)