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Bill Cosby in Court for Sexual Assault Case; TSA Security Chief Removed Amid Frustrations at the Airports; Scandals in Spotlight as Clinton, Trump Battle; Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired May 24, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:00:30] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, good morning to you. I'm Pamela Brown in for Carol Costello. Thank you so much for spending the part of your Tuesday morning with us.

And at this hour Bill Cosby is in court after arriving at the Montgomery County courthouse just outside of Philadelphia just minutes ago with today's critical hearing now under way. Cosby could come face to face with Andrea Constand, one of the some -- 50 some women accusing him of sexual abuse. Cosby's attorneys will argue this case should not go to trial. Prosecutors will try to peel away the image of a beloved TV dad and expose a ruthless predator.

CNN's Sara Ganim is outside the courthouse with the latest -- Sara.

SARA GANIM, CNN INVESTIGATIONS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Pamela. Just a few moments ago Bill Cosby making his entrance into this courthouse, the Montgomery County courthouse. He gave a little wave of acknowledgment to the media that's gathered here to watch him make his entrance. There were also some supporters on the street, just a handful, cheering for him as he walked in.

You know, nowhere is there a place where Bill Cosby was so beloved than this place, his hometown just outside of Philadelphia, and it is here at this courthouse where he now faces criminal charges. Three counts of aggravated indecent assault against a woman, Andrea Constand. She was the former director of women's basketball here at Temple University, and she says that back in 2004 Bill Cosby had her over to his house, gave her some blue pills, and then sexually assaulted her.

Now she was the first to come forward back in 2004, more than 12 years ago, and make allegations like this against Bill Cosby. Of course, since then more than 50 other women have also come forward and made similar allegations, but here in Montgomery County, this is the only place that Bill Cosby faces criminal charges. All of those other allegations because of statute of limitations laws are confined to civil lawsuits. In this case, if this goes to trial, Bill Cosby could face jail time.

Now, as this hearing, which we presume began on time, around 9:30, is under way in the courthouse behind me, it's unclear if Constand herself will take the stand and testify against Bill Cosby. He has stayed, for the most part, silent as these allegations have been levied against him over the past several years. However, it was his own words that shocked us all last summer when a civil deposition in Constand's lawsuit was made public that showed that he admitted that he had gotten a prescription for Quaaludes and used that to give to women who he wanted to have sex with.

Now he's denied all of the allegations of wrongdoing, all of the allegations of sexual assault or misconduct. In this particular case, Pamela, he says that the conduct between him and Andrea Constand was consensual.

BROWN: And I'm sure that that is what his defense will be pushing today in this hearing.

Sara Ganim, thank you very much. Let's discuss all of this. With me now, CNN legal analyst Laura Coates and Paul Callan.

Great to have you both on. Paul, just to set the stage with you first, break it down for us, what is going on inside that courtroom right now? What's the significance of today?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's a very, very important day in the development of the case. It's a preliminary hearing where the prosecutor has to establish to the satisfaction of the court that there's probable cause or sometimes people call it reasonable cause to believe that a crime was committed and that Bill Cosby committed the crime. It's sort of this hurdle, proving that you basically can prove that a crime was committed, not beyond a reasonable doubt, but just that there's reasonable cause or probable cause to believe that there was a crime, has to be gotten over before the case can go to a jury. Now the judge can toss it completely today or more likely find that there's enough evidence to go forward.

BROWN: But, so, Laura, how does the prosecution establish the probable cause in this case for this to move forward because, as we heard, Cosby's defense attorneys have said that the encounter with Constand was consensual. How can the prosecution prove it wasn't now 10 years later?

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Pam, there really are two ways the prosecution will go about this. The first option is to have Andrea Constand go and take the stand and testify about what occurred in 2005. The other alternative, however, is for her not to testify and them to submit what's called an affidavit, meaning whatever she told the officers at the time she made the claims could suffice in the court.

[10:05:01] There's a real benefit, however, to having her just give the affidavit rather than take the stand. If I'm the defense counsel, my immediate plan is to try to attack her credibility and find any little inconsistency that she may have had between her testimony today and the one she gave to the officers back when she first made the claim, and any single inconsistency can be used against her to discredit her at the trial.

BROWN: And back in 2005, Paul, the prosecutor decided at that time that there wasn't enough evidence to press charges, and Cosby's defense attorneys are expected to argue that the prosecutor made a firm commitment at that time that he wouldn't be prosecuted in Pennsylvania. How could that play into all of this?

CALLAN: Well, you know, when the case first came about and was brought currently by the current D.A., this was a big issue, and actually they've already gone into court on it trying to get the charges dismissed, the Cosby forces, but the court has ruled that that prior agreement with the prior D.A. that he wasn't going to go forward, is not binding on this court. A lot of new evidence has come to light.

And you know, another thing I wanted to add that makes this case different from all the other Cosby cases, and remember there are about 40 women now who have made allegations against him, but this judge --

BROWN: It's 50-plus now.

CALLAN: It's 50-plus. OK. I like to say when you can fill a school bus you start to think, you know, there might be something there. But in truth these cases are judged one by one, on an individual basis. This case is different, though, because Cosby testified at a deposition, and he was questioned about this case.

BROWN: Right.

CALLAN: And he admitted drugging her and he also said other strange things like, you know, that he really -- he wasn't certain about consent because she had taken pills, and she drank alcohol, and this was sort of a thing that he would say in a lot of different depositions. I mean, his defense was really the times were different then, and everybody was doing Quaaludes, and I can't remember whether somebody actually affirmatively consented in 2004. So whatever words were used in the deposition relating to his encounter with Constand can be used in this preliminary hearing so that could be something that comes up today.

BROWN: That could be key. And what about these other women, Laura, as we were talking about, 50-plus women, who have accused Bill Cosby of rape or sexual assault to some degree? Could they be brought in to testify to help Constand's case?

COATES: They absolutely could, and let's be clear, what Paul is saying is right. This is a case-by-case scenario, and although Mr. Cosby did say that he provided a drug to Miss Constand, I think it was Benadryl he claimed, he did not go so far as to say that he provided her with drugs to disable her from being able to get consent. In the prior case which the prosecution will certainly use will be all the testimony and statements made by other people who have alleged the same thing to show this is more than an isolated incident.

This is a pattern, a theme, his modus operandi, if you will. This is what he does in order to be able to have his way with women sexually, and those will all be game for the prosecution to come in. However, it's a very big hurdle for them to be able to get all that testimony in. It actually has to be very, very aligned with the same facts. Otherwise, the court will say, no, that does not come in, only this case.

BROWN: Right. And, of course, the defense could say, look, these are accusations. They haven't been vetted yet.

COATES: Right. Right.

BROWN: I mean, that could open up a whole other situation.

Paul Callan, Laura Coates, thank you very much for that.

COATES: Thank you.

BROWN: Another big story we're following, a major shakeup rocks the TSA as sky high frustrations over long lines fuel anger at airports across the country. The agency's security chief Kelly Hoggan now out, raising major red flags. Why he was paid $90,000 after a scathing report by the feds highlighting airport security failures?

Let's get right to CNN aviation and government regulation correspondent Rene Marsh. A lot of developments here, Rene.

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Certainly, Pamela. You know, this is a major shake-up at TSA. This, of course, as airports, airlines, and passengers complain about those painfully long airport security wait times.

Now the head of TSA security operations made more than $90,000 in bonuses paid to him in $10,000 increments, and that was on top of his base salary of $181,000. He received all that money despite the fact he was in charge when TSA failed to detect fake explosives and weapons 95 percent of the time during covert testing. That alone is just a prime, prime example of a broken Washington.

Now this shake-up happens just two weeks after members of Congress grilled the head of TSA, Peter Neffenger, about why Hoggan was getting such a handsome salary and bonuses despite his poor performance. And on top of that, Pamela, of course, as you know, we've been talking about it for weeks, airport security lines were not getting better. But when it comes to those long lines, everyone had a hand in this. TSA shares the blame with Congress for not allowing or allotting I should say funding for the needed staff. It is truly a broken system -- Pamela.

[10:10:11] BROWN: And it is yet to be seen if any of these changes, Rene, will impact the long lines at airports. We sure hope so.

Thank you so much for that report, Rene.

Meanwhile, the '90s are back as Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton punch and counter punch over the past.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He could bankrupt America like he's bankrupted his companies. I mean, ask yourself, how can anybody lose money running a casino? Really.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Hillary Clinton drudging up the past as she looks to the future and a likely November election against Donald Trump, and Trump for his part also turning back the calendar. He's attacking Bill Clinton's past infidelities and his wife's handling of them.

Clearly, in what promises to be a bitter fight, something old is new again.

Let's bring in CNN's Phil Mattingly. He is here with more. This is just the beginning, Phil.

[10:15:04] PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Just the beginning. We've got about five months of this.

BROWN: Yes.

MATTINGLY: And there's no question, right now both candidates are really trying to tag the other with something that will boost their negatives, but what's really interesting here is people are trying to figure out what Donald Trump is trying to do, what's his strategy? We got a really solid insight on that this morning. Listen to what Chris Cuomo and Michael Cohen, an executive vice president for the Trump Organization, also a special counsel to Donald Trump, had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Why go after Bill Clinton? Isn't that bad for Donald Trump?

MICHAEL COHEN, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: Why? Why is it bad for -- why is it bad for Mr. Trump? What he's doing is he's exposing not just Bill Clinton for what he was and what he had done, but it's the same as it relates to Hillary. She attacked Mr. Trump as being a sexist misogynist and that's inaccurate. Donald Trump is not any of those things, and again what they're trying to do is to portray him as such so that they can end up turning the women against Mr. Trump when, in fact, the women seem to be turning against Hillary Clinton for being the enabler-in-chief.

CUOMO: If you are not a sexist, what you usually say is, I'm not a sexist. Here's all the things that prove that I'm not, here are all the beautiful things, the beautiful women in my life --

COHEN: Of which Mr. Trump has done many times.

CUOMO: Right. You don't turn around and say actually you're a sexist. You call me a sexist, I call you a sexist. Seems juvenile.

COHEN: Except what she's doing is she's deflecting. The issue is, they're really the -- she's the enabler-in-chief, and he happens to be the sexist. So instead she needs to win the women's vote. That's what she needs. She's certainly not going to win the men's vote. So she needs to go after the women's vote. She's not going to be able to do that if Donald Trump is not portrayed by the Clinton campaign as a sexist. So she's deflecting --

CUOMO: His numbers with women were not good before she ever said anything like that.

COHEN: His numbers -- his numbers are good. His numbers are getting better each and every day across the board.

CUOMO: With women?

COHEN: With women, with Hispanics, with African-Americans, with Muslims.

CUOMO: Here are my two reasons that I think it's bad for him. One, hypocrite. Two, glass houses. He defended Bill Clinton for years. He said the same allegations that you guys are talking about now were a waste of time, were wrong, were hollow. That Bill Clinton was a terrific guy, that he was a great president, that the impeachment was wrong, that it was a waste of time --

COHEN: And Hillary Clinton said Donald Trump was one of the smartest, best businessmen in the United States on several occasions. Now she's attacking him on these ads --

CUOMO: Well, but hold on. Right. So she's bad, too.

COHEN: OK.

CUOMO: So she's bad, too. But isn't he bad for saying that Bill Clinton is great and now going after him?

COHEN: All he's doing is he's giving the facts.

CUOMO: No, no, no.

COHEN: He's giving the facts.

CUOMO: He knew the facts then in the '90s when this was all happening and he said it was B.S.

COHEN: He was a private -- he was a private citizen who was friendly with the Clintons, and he was trying to protect a friend, all right? Now it's a different game. It's 2016.

CUOMO: Michael.

COHEN: He's the presidential --

CUOMO: Michael.

COHEN: He's the Republican presidential nominee --

CUOMO: If you decide to run for office and people say, hey, you knew Cuomo back then, you used to say he's a said guy.

COHEN: I will always deny that.

CUOMO: You say -- but now -- now I'm running against him, Cuomo's a bum? That makes it OK?

COHEN: Absolutely.

CUOMO: Come on.

COHEN: Because if I was telling the --

CUOMO: Michael, telling the truth?

COHEN: If I was telling truth, then it's absolutely fine.

CUOMO: So he was lying then?

COHEN: He's not lying. He was protecting a friend. There's a difference.

CUOMO: What is the difference?

COHEN: The difference is he was being a true friend. He was -- it didn't matter to him --

CUOMO: So he would be friends with a guy that he thought was a piece of crap basically? Is that what you're saying?

COHEN: What his relationship is with his wife is between the two of them. Now it's different. They're attacking Mr. Trump on a daily basis. Hundreds of millions of dollars spent in attack ads, right? Whereas, you know, it's funny because I keep seeing CNN and others talking about these two ads that are going against one another right now. Trump spent probably $250 on his ad, right? And no expense in terms of getting it out. And she's probably spent several millions of dollars --

CUOMO: You know, you could argue he spent what it's worth.

COHEN: This is the difference.

CUOMO: Why is he going after stuff that he used to defend the guy with? He called Paula Jones a loser.

COHEN: Do you know what the difference is?

CUOMO: What?

COHEN: This ad he put out against the Clintons is legitimate. The one she put out against him is inaccurate.

CUOMO: He says it's a -- he says it's illegitimate.

COHEN: Who says?

CUOMO: He says in the '90s. He said Linda Tripp was a lying loser.

COHEN: You want to go back -- let's talk about 2016.

CUOMO: The personification of evil. COHEN: Let's talk about 2016, Chris. We're not going to talk about

1990 when he was defending Bill Clinton because it didn't matter.

CUOMO: Why would I trust you if you say that all the things that you said then were false?

COHEN: He's was -- he was a private individual --

CUOMO: So you'd tell the truth when you're a politician but you lie when you're a private individual?

COHEN: He had no obligation to say anything to anybody.

CUOMO: But he said plenty.

COHEN: So what? Because he's Donald Trump.

CUOMO: That's the record of what you believe.

COHEN: No. No, no, no. He was standing up for a man who he considered to be a friend at the time.

CUOMO: So he was saying things that he knew was untrue at the time.

COHEN: No.

CUOMO: Did he believe them to be true at the time?

COHEN: I don't think he knew the answer. He was standing up for a friend.

CUOMO: Called Paula Jones --

COHEN: Which shows loyalty. The one who called Paula Jones --

[10:20:04] CUOMO: Called Linda Tripp the personification of evil. Does he know what he was talking about?

COHEN: The person who called -- the person who called all of them the worst was Hillary Clinton, the great enabler.

CUOMO: This is about your guy, what he said. Paula Jones is a loser, and she may be responsible for bringing down the president indirectly. Did he know it or did he not know it?

COHEN: You'll have to ask him that question.

CUOMO: Michael.

COHEN: You have to ask him that question.

CUOMO: Michael, that is a nice dodge, my friend. Very well done on that. What I'm saying is that's the hypocrisy part. You defended the guy more than anybody else basically who didn't have to, and now you're bringing all the same attacks and saying well, it's different now. I'm running for office. I think that sounds like hypocrisy. COHEN: Like I said to you in the very first that I came on this show.

CUOMO: Yes.

COHEN: Donald Trump is a counter puncher. Had she not turned around and brought out the issue where she's referring to him as a sexist and misogynist.

CUOMO: Yes.

COHEN: This ad would never have come out.

CUOMO: And you know what one of the things is?

COHEN: And you know what's going to be even worse?

CUOMO: What?

COHEN: Here is a little hint for them.

CUOMO: Please.

COHEN: Donald Trump is this uber-billionaire real estate developer, possibly the greatest negotiator in the history of this planet. He'll never come out with his first offer, right, in real estate right off the bat. Meaning, is she thinks that this is bad, right, this is nothing. He's not coming out with his strong, right, from day number one, right?

CUOMO: But how far can he go?

COHEN: Between -- how far?

(CROSSTALK)

COHEN: You're going back to 1970s, 1980s, 1990s. You guys feel that it's OK to go back as far as you want in order to take a snippet, right, whereas --

CUOMO: 25 years ago when he --

COHEN: You're going back 30 years.

CUOMO: When he pretended to be a PR guy on the tape?

COHEN: Well, that's your opinion whether he was --

CUOMO: So you're saying it wasn't him on the tape still?

COHEN: I'm not -- I'm not --

CUOMO: He admitted it in the past that was him on the tape.

COHEN: I'm not sure he admitted anything.

CUOMO: I know you're not admitting that because you're a lawyer and you're a very good one. But what I'm saying is.

COHEN: I appreciate that.

CUOMO: Not everybody wants to litigate these things. Another problem is the hypocrisy. The other part is glass houses. Back then when he was defending Clinton, kind of a joke but it kind of wasn't. He said you know what his real problem was, one, is he answered the questions. He should have refused to answer the questions. You shouldn't have been honest with the American people.

COHEN: What's the joke about the allegations that he had --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: He made fun about the women. He said -- I'll tell you -- I'll tell you --

COHEN: Ruined women's lives and then had his wife go after them.

CUOMO: Right. Well, women that Donald Trump said were losers, were terrible, were liars and were ugly and that's why this is an issue. Kennedy had Marilyn Monroe. He was on a different level with beautiful women of sophistication. People would have been more forgiving if he had an affair with people like that. That's what he said back then.

COHEN: You know Mr. Trump.

CUOMO: Yes.

COHEN: And you know that he has a sense of humor whether you like the humor or not. He was making a statement that was --

CUOMO: Here's what I'm saying.

COHEN: Because Marilyn Monroe was a beautiful woman.

CUOMO: But it's the context that you say it. What I'm saying is this, this is now where we're starting to vet in real, OK? Both sides.

COHEN: Chris, you have -- let me stop you for one second. You have two candidates. Right.

CUOMO: Yes.

COHEN: Well, actually you really have one right now. You have the presumptive Republican nominee.

CUOMO: We have three right now.

COHEN: Right. It's interesting that Hillary is taking the position that she is the presumptive nominee for the Democratic Party. Not if you ask Bernie Sanders.

CUOMO: Fine. COHEN: And he's going to take her to task.

CUOMO: Fine, and that's an issue.

COHEN: And she's being taken to task by Bernie Sanders.

CUOMO: That's an issue. That's a legitimate issue.

COHEN: Wait until Donald Trump comes in. Assuming she comes in --

CUOMO: How much dirt can you go with?

COHEN: So much.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Why do you want an election to be about that? Isn't this about making America great or is it making it its worst election ever?

COHEN: Of course it's making America great.

CUOMO: How is it making this great, by talking sexual past of 25 years.

COHEN: Let's talk about file-gate, pardon-gate, China-gate, travel- gate. Let's talk about the Clinton Foundation-gate.

(CROSSTALK)

COHEN: Chris --

CUOMO: Is that fair game now?

COHEN:: You and I should go into businesses buying gates, right, when it comes to the Clintons.

CUOMO: That started with Watergate. What I'm saying is, what am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to have Harry Hurt on and go through his book about Donald's scalp surgery and how it made him crazy and became physically abusive? Are we supposed to do mob stories about what the Castellano guys have been saying for years about Trump? Is that fair stuff for this election?

COHEN: What's story are we --

CUOMO: You read what was in "New York" magazine. I've been hearing those stories for 20 years about what kind of concrete he bought at what price and why.

COHEN: The same concrete -- the same concrete that the city of New York bought.

CUOMO: Did he pay for the same price?

COHEN: Because the city of New York --

CUOMO: Who did he hang out with. Who did he have --

(CROSSTALK)

COHEN: He bought the concrete from the same people because it was the city that gave the license to only a handful of people to sell concrete. And you know that as well.

CUOMO: The developer who came forward, wanted him shut down as the mob --

(CROSSTALK)

COHEN: Of course they want him shut down because you had this young Turk that's out there making great moves, he was this young billionaire.

CUOMO: With the mob?

COHEN: Had nothing to do with the mob. You know, if you go ahead and you have waste going back pre-Giuliani and you had waste disposal coming in and picking up your garbage.

CUOMO: Dirty business.

COHEN: Are you now involved in the mob?

CUOMO: Dirty business. My answer, no. But what I'm saying is, is that what you want this election to be about? There are plenty of stories out there with as much stuff behind them, as a lot of these stuff that you just put on Instagram.

(CROSSTALK)

[10:25:03] COHEN: Not even close. Not even close. And in order to make this country great again, women, Hispanics, African-Americans, whites, everybody wants the same thing. We want to fix the economy.

CUOMO: Yes.

COHEN: You cannot exist with a $19 trillion debt. We want jobs. The only way to work jobs.

CUOMO: Then talk about that.

COHEN: Let him speak about it. They keep wanting to bring in --

CUOMO: You just put out this video about this.

COHEN: It's in response to an inaccurate video put out by the Clinton campaign that they spent millions of dollars on.

CUOMO: We all have -- he could respond any way he wants. Shake my hand.

COHEN: Always.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: So obviously, Pam, quite an exchange there, but there's a lot of value in it and a couple of reasons why. First and foremost, you get insight there into how the people closest to Trump are viewing this campaign. The areas where they think they can attack Hillary Clinton and why they believe they need to attack on those fronts, fronts that traditionally wouldn't be part of political discourse, but you also get a sense there of how interconnected these two candidates are. Their vulnerabilities often shared by the other side. Their relationships over the past, if it's Donald Trump defending Bill Clinton or defending the Clintons, the Clintons defending Donald Trump.

We're in an area right now that simply hasn't been seen before in politics. It's slightly bizarre and, frankly, if you talk to a lot of political operatives, it's not only uncomfortable but it kind of leads to a lot of unknowns. Nobody knows what's going to happen next. It's part of why it's a great story, but it's also part of why people are really scratching their heads right now and trying to figure out what the -- the next five months will actually entail.

BROWN: Yes. It's what you call unchartered territory.

MATTINGLY: No question.

BROWN: Thanks so much, Phil Mattingly. We do appreciate it.

There's still a lot more to discuss. We're going to talk about that interview coming up, that contentious interview. We're going to break it down with our panel straight ahead, so be sure to stay with us.

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