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Trump and Clinton Continue Personal Attacks; Bill Cosby Appears in Court as Preliminary Hearing Convenes; Battle to Regain Fallujah Underway; Virginia Governor, Terry Mcauliffe, Under FBI Investigation. Aired 10:30-11:00a

Aired May 24, 2016 - 10:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:31:10]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Well, the 2016 election is shaping up to be one for the ages. As Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump battle each other while entering the election with what many polls show are the highest unfavorable ratings for candidates in history. Joining me now to discuss, Andrew Smith, Director of the New -- The University of New Hampshire Survey Center. Tana Goertz, a Trump supporter, and Maria Cardona, a Democratic strategist whose firm currently does work for a pro-Clinton Super PAC.

Wow to the three of you, we have a lot to discuss on the heels of that contentious interview we just heard with Chris Cuomo and a member of Trump's team. Tana, as we heard, Trump is really focusing his attacks on both Clintons with this new ad, talking about how Hillary Clinton was an enabler for Donald Trump. But that same strategy backfired on Republicans back in the 90s. It actually boosted then-President Clinton's approval ratings along with those of Hillary, his First Lady. Your candidate also has his own colorful past. Is this the right move?

TANA GOERTZ, TRUMP SENIOR ADVISOR: Oh absolutely this is the right move. We don't want to have a repeat of the 90s and Mister Trump just wants to let the American voters know who they're actually voting for. It's not just Hillary Clinton, it's also Bill Clinton. And we don't want that back in the White House, and there's a lot of people that are very fearful of having the Clintons reenter the White House. And Mister Trump is just opening that up and letting people know that this is what in fact, you are voting for.

BROWN: But Tana, beyond that, I'm saying their approval ratings. They're actually -- (when that) -- for both Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton, when Republicans went after them during the Lewinsky scandal, in many ways Hillary Clinton became a more sympathetic figure to people. Could that happen this time around with Trump's attack?

GOERTZ: Oh, I do not believe that will happen again. I mean, back then people felt sorry for Hillary because her husband was unfaithful. And they believed that she was going to do the right thing for women, and empower women, and strengthen women, and support women. And that was actually to the contrary. None of that happened. She actually belittled the women. And she hid the women's stories, and no, that did not happen. And so that might have been a sympathy vote back then, but that will not happen again. There's a lot of smart women out there. The American women are very smart and this is a new Presidential election. And there has never been a Presidential candidate like Donald J. Trump. And so we do not have any fears that this will boost her favorability rating.

BROWN: Just before I get to you, Maria. You say American women are smart but are you worried that comments like what he said back in the 90s -- that you know, had Monica Lewinsky been more attractive like Marilyn Monroe, could further alienate women against Trump?

MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, CLINTON SUPPORTER: Yes. No, absolutely. And you know what? American women are smart. Which is why they have such a hugely negative view of Donald Trump. That's exactly what they -- how they should be viewing him ...

GOERTZ: And Hillary Clinton.

CARDONA: ... That's exactly how they should be viewing him. Because they have seen what kind of person he has been. If you want to talk about the 90s, let's talk about the 90s and how he went on the Howard Stern Show to degrade and grade women. And those are all things that are going to come back to haunt him. Especially if -- you know, somebody who lives in glass houses should not throw rocks. The Bill Clinton issue ...

GOERTZ: Well I will say that ...

CARDONA: Let me talk, I did not interrupt you -- The Bill Clinton issue is already baked in. People know him. He actually has a very high approval rating among Americans right now. And super high among Democrats. Hillary Clinton, American women know -- again, they are smart, and in fact I think, an attack on her because of what her husband did, is going to backfire in an incredibly big way ...

BROWN: But, but Maria ...

CARDONA: ... and she's going to continue to be focused on issues. That's what women care about.

BROWN: But is that the right move? Is that the right move to be focused on issues when you're dealing with someone like Donald Trump, who clearly has elicited so much emotion ...

CARDONA: M-hm.

BROWN: ... from his supporters. Is focusing on the issues right, or does Hillary Clinton need to play his game. And need to go after him more for his colorful past?

[10:35:10]

CARDONA: Well you know what? She's actually going to do both. As we have seen with her campaign recently, she is not going to take this the way that the 16 competitors against Donald Trump in the Republican primary did. She's not going to lay down and play dead. We have seen that from her. She can walk and chew gum at the same time. But the other parallel is incredibly important. She is going to be focused on issues that American families care about.

We've already seen in the polls that she is the one that Americans care more to take care of middle class families. That represent middle class interests. That are focused on a good temperament. The majority of Americans don't think that Donald Trump has the temperament to be Commander in Chief. And they trust her more with foreign policy. Those are contrasts that she will continue to win, which will -- is what going to -- is what's going to be the thing that's going to put her in the White House in November.

BROWN: OK so, Andrew, on that note I have to ask you, with Trump's strategy focusing on the scandals and not the issues, he's likely solidifying his angry base. But does he need to do more to reach out and bring in Hispanics, women, groups of people where his unfavorables are high?

ANDREW SMITH, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAMPSHIRE SURVEY CENTER: Well I think first we have to take a step back and remember where we are in the process. It's May, not even June yet. We don't need to have -- we haven't had the conventions. Voters aren't really going to tune into this race until September and October. So what Trump is doing right now, I believe, is just setting the background for how this campaign is going to be fought out. And he knows that he has high unfavorables and he's going to bring Clinton down. But one thing I must say about Trump -- and this is something I've not seen with any other candidate -- is his ability to control his own favorables and unfavorables.

In New Hampshire in January of 2015, his net favorability rating was minus 50 among Republicans. By July it was plus 11. So he has the ability, like no other candidate I've ever seen -- and this is why I'm very cautious about trying to predict what's going to happen this Fall -- of turning around his own image, as well as controlling what the press talks about toward the image of his opponents.

BROWN: Hm. And Tana, back to you, also part of Trump's strategy is going after Bill Clinton. In this latest ad with some of his accusers, Trump says look, I'm a counter-puncher. I only go after people who go after me. So why is Bill Clinton his target, as well?

GOERTZ: Well because he is the spouse of Hillary Clinton. And that is who we probably will be going up against in the general election. So it's just, you know, letting the American people know that with Hillary comes Bill. And what has Bill's past been? And it's been no secret that Donald Trump likes pretty, beautiful women. I mean, he has a modeling agency for goodness sakes. Mister Trump has never been shy about that so he doesn't live in a glass house, as your previous guest was mentioning. Not at all. He's been very open about he likes beautiful things.

Hence why everything he builds is a huge iconic building or structure. Mister Trump does everything first class. His level of excellence is beyond what any American can conceive. So that's why he has such expectations for the American people and for the United States of America. Mister Trump wants the best of everything and there's never been any doubt that he's been shy about that. And so no, Mister Trump definitely wants the American people to know that with Hillary comes Bill. And with Bill comes that past.

CARDONA: And see ...

BROWN: OK, I -- this conversation could go on. We have to wrap it up because there's another big story we're following. Tana, Maria, Andrew, I could talk to you all all day. Thanks so much for that ...

CARDONA: Thank you.

BROWN: And I want to turn to the Bill Cosby hearing. Jean Casarez is in Norristown, Pennsylvania. Jean, what's the latest?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well I am right inside the courthouse, I am on the floor, there's a very short break. But the first witness has already taken the stand. Which was the detective that actually took the statement of the accuser, Andrea Constand, 11 years ago. Now here's what's interesting. It's obvious that -- to me -- the defense believed that Andrea Constand was going to take the stand. Because she can take the stand. And it used to be the law in Pennsylvania that the accuser had to take the stand in the preliminary hearing.

But that was all changed last year by an appellate court in Pennsylvania. So there was a conference, I could tell, in the judge's chamber. The attorneys walked out before it got started, and the look on the defense attorney's face -- they wanted to be able to cross- examine the accuser in this case. But they didn't get to. The detective is reading the statement that Andrea Constand gave in 2005. And what it states, is that she says that Bill Cosby was her mentor. He invited her over to his home because she was in the middle of a career change from broadcasting to being a masseuse -- a physical therapist -- and so he wanted to talk to her about that.

She said that she told him when she was there, she couldn't sleep, she was just very emotionally upset with this career change. He went upstairs, he brought down blue pills. He told her to take them, she did. He told her to take some wine with it, and she said, 20 to 30 minutes later, as they were talking, she suddenly got blurred vision, her legs were rubbery, she couldn't talk. He had to help her over to a couch where he had her lay down. She then says that she was aware but she couldn't stop him. That he began to sexually assault her. Well the cross-examination was absolutely devastating to Constand. Because of the defenses trying to bring out -- is not only attack her credibility, saying that after that she got -- she would go over to his house, that she would go out with him in different areas. But they're trying to show there was consent. But the prosecution fired back that the only reason she got together with him after that alleged sexual assault, was to try to confront him.

So that's where we're at, at this point. But I do want to tell you I'm in the second row and I suddenly -- before it all starts -- I suddenly feel my court bench just, just move. And I looked up and right there was Bill Cosby right above me. And had stumbled into my bench as he was walking -- assisted -- into the courtroom to sit at the defense table. Now as we know, the defense has said that his eyesight is impaired, it has been for a while. Well he really bumped into my court bench as he was walking into that courtroom this morning.

BROWN: Hm. Jean Casarez, stand by, we want to continue to talk to you when I -- want to bring in Paul Callan on the heels of what we just heard from Jean, what went on inside that preliminary hearing. It's clear that when the detective was reading Constand's statement from the early 2000s, that the defense's strategy was to go after her credibility here. Saying, "look, even after this she continued to go back to his house." Do you think that's an effective strategy, do you think that will work?

[10:42:00]

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well that's going to be the core of the defense here. I think there's probably enough here that the court will sustain the charges and say, "OK, this case can go forward." However at the time of trial, this is the core of the defense. She -- Constand's claim is that he had a long-term relationship with her. That she voluntarily came to the house that day, and by the way, she continued to have contact with Cosby even after this incident.

This is another big part of the Cosby defense. If you were sexually abused, or if an aggravated sexual assault on you occurred, would you continue to go to the home of the man who had assaulted you? So there's going to be a real attack on her credibility during the course of this entire trial, and we're getting a little bit of a taste of it now.

BROWN: So OK, so her credibility will clearly be a focus for the defense. But what about all these other women. More than 50 plus now, have come forward to accuse Bill Cosby of sexual assault or rape. How will that play into all of this?

CALLAN: Well the first question is, does it get into court in this trial? And if you have prior crimes that you have committed, generally that's not admissible in a criminal prosecution. Now the reason for that is that we -- when we hear that somebody did something before, you immediately make up your mind, they must be guilty. And the court system has always had this idea that we're just looking at the facts of an individual case. However there's an exception to this rule. And that is, if you have sort of, a signature crime that you commit -- now let's say a murderer always carves an "X" on his victim -- that might be relevant to whether you committed the crime or not. And here, this is what the prosecutors are going to say.

His M.O. is always the same. He induces these women to get involved in a friendship, and then he drugs them, and then he has sex with them, or some kind of sexual contact with them. And that that's his signature crime. So they will use that to try to get some of the evidence of other sexual assaults. And let me say this, if you get a bunch of those prior incidents into evidence, Cosby's going to have a hard time winning this case.

BROWN: And we just saw this video of him walking in initially. This was earlier video of him walking into that courthouse in Pennsylvania. And the question is, Jean, what was he like during all of this when this was going down? Can you give us some color on his demeanor and what he was like inside that courtroom?

CASAREZ (via telephone): Sure, very professionally dressed in his suit. He sat at the defense table. He appeared to watch and listen to the testimony -- obviously we don't know what his eyesight is like. But he, as you would look at him in the courtroom -- very serious, not a comedian at all, very serious. Just appeared as though one of the attorneys, along with the rest of his attorneys at the table.

BROWN: And he's older. I mean he's -- you know above the ...

CALLAN: He's 80.

BROWN: He's 80. He's right -- how, I mean, we see him walking in. He's holding onto someone walking into that courtroom. How could his age play into this, Paul? I mean he ...

CALLAN: Well there's always the thought that ...

BROWN: Oh, go ahead, Jean.

CALLAN: Go Jean, yep.

CASAREZ: No he doesn't appear that old in person. I mean, he has a very youthful look, actually in person. And it's just being assisted as he walks (simply) because of what the defense says is his eyesight. So no physical disabilities are really apparent at all.

BROWN: And I, I'm sorry if I missed this earlier, Jean, we know that Constand didn't testify, but is she there?

CASAREZ: You know that's speculation at this point. I don't think anyone knows for sure. No one has seen her.

BROWN: OK, I figured -- and I figured you would have mentioned that but I wanted to make sure I didn't miss something. Thanks so much Jean Casarez, and Paul Callan. We'll be back to discuss more, appreciate it.

[10:45:40]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Welcome back. Taking a live look here inside the courthouse in Norristown, Pennsylvania. That is where this preliminary hearing is underway to decide whether Bill Cosby should be tried on criminal charges of aggravated, indecent assault. We will be staying on top of this story and bringing you the very latest. In the meantime, we want to turn to another big story that's happening on this Tuesday. The battle to drive ISIS out of Fallujah is happening at this moment.

[10:50:20]

BROWN: These images just in show Iraqi troops attacking an ISIS stronghold just outside the city. The Iraqi Army started its defensive this week after months of preparation. And U.S. led coalition forces have been pounding ISIS targets for days. And the top U.S. Commander for the Middle East takes CNN inside the battle for Iraq. General Joseph Votel, commanding General of the U.S. Central Command is part of an effort to fight ISIS in the region. CNN's Barbara Starr is in Imam with this CNN exclusive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Protesters invade Baghdad's green zone for the second time. Violence rising as opposition to the Iraqi government grows. The top U.S. Commander running the war against ISIS is watching carefully for the stress mounting on the Iraqi military even now, as it tries to recapture the key city of Fallujah.

GENERAL JOSEPH VOTEL, CENTCOM COMMANDER: They're having to make decisions in terms of where their force is going, where their priorities are.

STARR (voice-over): But in Baghdad, with the U.S. Embassy and military headquarters inside the heavily fortified green zone, does the U.S. have enough security on hand?

VOTEL: Yes, I do think we have the right security forces on ground -- on the ground from a U.S. perspective, to take care of ourselves there.

STARR (voice-over): CNN was the only network with General Joseph Votel, the U.S. Commander in charge of the war against ISIS, as he traveled in Iraq, getting the latest assessments on security and the readiness of Iraqi forces.

STARR: This base about one hour North of Baghdad is one of the frontlines in the effort to train, advise, and assist Iraqi forces. But they have at least temporarily seen some Iraqi forces being called back to Baghdad for a few weeks to deal with the security situation there, in the wake of the rising attacks by ISIS.

STARR (voice-over): Votel is trying to convince Iraq's military to make certain to station enough troops around the country, and not to flood Baghdad with security forces, as the government tries to confront the latest violence in the capital.

VOTEL: They are attempting to create chaos in the capital. They're attempting to divert attention away from other areas where they are -- where the coalition forces and the Iraqis are having success.

STARR (voice-over): This military warehouse just to the South, in Kuwait, brimming with more than 25,000 weapons for those Iraqi forces. All are being shipped out as more Iraqis show up for U.S.-led training.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: Even as the effort to train the Iraqi army moves full-speed ahead, the U.S. is worried that the fighting in Fallujah, and the unrest in Baghdad could distract the Iraqi government from getting their Army fully trained and out in the field. Pamela?

BROWN: Barbara Starr reporting from Imam, Jordan in that exclusive report, thanks so much. And still ahead in the Newsroom, Virginia Governor, Terry McAuliffe reponds -- responds, rather -- to a story CNN broke. News of an FBI probe, why he says he's confident all of his campaign contributions were legal. But first, a quick check on the markets, we're off to a good start this Tuesday, as we see the DOW now up about 200 points. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:56:15]

BROWN: Virginia Governor, Terry McAuliffe says he's confident his campaign has done nothing wrong. And he's responding to news the FBI and Justice Department are examining whether donations made to his campaign were illegal. It's a story first broken by CNN. Let's bring in CNN Justice Reporter, Evan Perez. He joins me now from Washington. So Terry McAuliffe, Evan, was asked about this story we broke here, on CNN yesterday. And how else did he respond to it?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well Pamela, he says -- he focused really on one part of the investigation. And as we reported yesterday, this is an investigation by the FBI and by the Public Integrity section of the Justice Department. And they're looking, not only at this -- at his campaign donations, but other things that we actually could not learn everything about. What we know about is that they were looking at his 2013 gubernatorial campaign.

And in particular, we know that one thing that got the attention of investigators was a donation from a Chinese national -- a Chinese businessman by the name of Wang Wenliang. And it was about $122,000 in three different contributions. Now it's illegal for a foreign national to donate to U.S. campaigns, whether it's federal, state, or local campaigns. We're told by Wang's representatives that he has a U.S. greencard. So that would seem to make his donation completely legal. And that's where McAuliffe was focusing on when he spoke to reporters this morning, Pamela.

BROWN: And quickly, Evan, we know that Terry McAuliffe is very close to the Clintons and he was part of the Clinton Global Initiative. Are investigators looking at his role there?

PEREZ: That is something that the investigators have looked at. Now we don't know and there's certainly no allegation that the Clinton Global Initiative did anything wrong. There's no allegation of wrongdoing, but we do know that investigators have scrutinized those records as well, part of this investigation.

BROWN: OK, thank you so much Evan Perez for the latest reporting there. We do appreciate it. And thank you for being here with us on this Tuesday. I'm Pamela Brown. AT THIS HOUR with Berman and Bolduan starts right after a quick break.

[10:58:15]

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