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Zoo Reopens After Killing Gorilla to Save a Child; Mandatory Evacuations in Effect Near Houston; Rain From Tropical Depression Flooding Parts of SC; Trump Critical of Hillary Clinton and Veteran Affairs; Federal Infrastructure Spending Down 9% Since 2003; Rubio Revealing Lessons Learned from Campaign; Donald Trump's Numerous Feuds with Women. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired May 29, 2016 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:11] SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. Thank you for joining me. I'm Suzanne Malveaux. Fredricka Whitfield is off today. We begin in Cincinnati where the city zoo just issued a statement in response to its killing of a 450-pound gorilla. The animal was shot after a young boy slipped in to its enclosure. The zoo is saying, "We are heartbroken about losing Harambe, that is the gorilla, but a child's life was in danger, and a quick decision had to be made by our Dangerous Animal Response Team.

Our first response was to call the gorillas out of the exhibit. The two females complied, but Harambe did not. It is important to note that with the child still in the exhibit, tranquilizing the 450-pound gorilla was not an option. Tranquilizers do not take effect for several minutes, and the child was in imminent danger. On top of that, the impact from the dart could agitate the animal and cause the situation to get much worse." CNN's Rachel Crane explains how all of this unfolded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[16:01:12] RACHEL CRANE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A day of panic and desperation at the Cincinnati Zoo.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Making that second run to the Cincinnati Zoo, and this is in a gorilla cage, and a three-year-old child has fallen in to the gorilla cage.

CRANE: A four-year-old boy slips in to the zoo's gorilla habitat and over a mote wall. Suddenly, Harambe, a 17-year-old, 450-pound gorilla approaches the boy. His mother watches in horror at what happens next.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God. Calm down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Everybody - OK. Everybody back up. I think -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mommy's right here. CRANE: The young boy screams. The urgent calls to 911 can be heard on this bystander video. The family tries desperately to keep him calm as Harambe takes him out of sight. Harambe drags the boy around the mote and up a ladder for a total of 10 minutes. As the zoo's Dangerous Animal Response Team anxiously decides what to do next.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The little boy himself had already been talking about wanting to go in, go in, get in the water, and his mother is like, "No, you're not. No, you're not." I don't know if the screaming did it or too many people hanging on the edge. If he thought we were coming in. But then he, you know, pulled the boy down further away from the big group.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Engine 32.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) The gorilla has her child. And it dragged him around the pen.

CRANE: Officials consider the incident so threatening, deciding Harambe must be taken down immediately.

[16:02:52] THANE MAYNARD, CINCINNATI ZOO DIRECTOR: The reason that tranquilizing was not chosen is in an agitated situation, which the male was, it may take quite a while for a tranquilizer to take effect, but certainly at the instant he would be hit, he would have a dramatic response. You don't hit it and he falls over. It would take a few minutes. The child wasn't under attack, but all sorts of things could happen in a situation like that. So, he certainly was at risk.

CRANE: They say their only option, a rifle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God! Get the kid out of here.

CRANE: Harambe was shot and killed. The child was taken to Cincinnati's Children's Hospital with nonlife-threatening injuries.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have rescued the child. Disregard everybody. Children have been notified for a trauma.

MAYNARD: It's a sad day all the way around. The right choice was made. It was a difficult choice.

CRANE: Harambe was a western lowland gorilla, a critically endangered species. The zoo had hoped he would eventually father other gorillas.

[16:03:50] PATRICIA HARVEY, WITNESS: We love the zoo. It's very friendly and it's - everything is beautiful here, but when you see something like that, and then you have the disappointment, because how do you - what do you say to your grandchildren?

MALVEAUX: Rachel Crane is joining us now. And Rachel, this gorilla exhibit is now temporarily closed, but we know that the Cincinnati Zoo is open today. There are animal rights activists who are reacting to what happened. What are they saying here? And clearly, people are still talking about this at the zoo.

CRANE: Well, Suzanne, a lot of outrage within the animal activist community following the incident. PETA putting at a statement saying, "The gorilla paid with its life because of the negligence of others." Also, an online petition on change.org receiving 4,000 signatures calling for the parents to be held responsible here. Now, the police say that there are no plans to pursue charges. In spite of this incident, still a lot of visitors headed to the zoo today, but they did tell CNN that they are being extra cautious. Take a listen.

Well, what you would have heard right there as unfortunately we did not have the sound, that visitors were keeping a close eye on their children, but they were still enjoying the holiday weekend, and we're going to go to the zoo, seeing it's been open for 38 years, and this is the first incident of its kind. Now, the zoo did put out a statement earlier today saying that the boy did leave the hospital last night. He was in good condition, and they were very happy about that. Now, the gorilla exhibit is closed currently, unclear when it will reopen. Suzanne?

MALVEAUX: All right. Rachel Crane, thank you so much. I appreciate that. I want to bring in Lis Smith who's an active volunteer for the preservation of gorillas. And, Lis, this has gotten a lot of attention. You put out a blog and you also tweeted out this here. I mean, I'll read it out for our audience here. "Majestic animal killed because parents can't control their child. Let's hope for some charges here." Are you talking about criminal charges against the parents in this situation? What do you think -

[16:05:57] LIS SMITH, VOLUNTEER: Yeah.

MALVEAUX: -- is the appropriate response?

SMITH: Sure. I mean, I think more broadly what I'm talking about is responsibility here. I think, you know, this is clearly a tragic incident. And I think that we should use it as a learning experience for how do we move forward in terms of our treatment of our closest relatives? You know, we keep our closest relatives, chimpanzees, gorillas, orangutans, bonobos in zoos.

And for the purpose of educating people about them, and learning from them, and promoting conservation, so when you see an incident like this where the zoo officials and, you know, all of these parties acted somewhat irresponsibly, you do hope that there are some deterrents put in place to prevent - you know, to prevent tragedies like this from happening in the future.

MALVEAUX: I know when I watched that, and I watched it for the first time, my heart just skipped a beat when I watched that gorilla drag that child through the water. Being a parent myself, I know you're a parent, as well, and we know, you know, like your kid runs one minute, one second, and you know, you've lost them. Right?

SMITH: Well, right.

MALVEAUX: So, how do you - how do you make sure that the child's protected? Do you blame the zoo, the facility itself? Because you are squarely putting the blame here on the parents, right, that the parents should be held responsible and charged?

SMITH: Well, a few things. One, I am not yet a parent. I hope to be one day.

MALVEAUX: Oh, I apologize.

SMITH: But two - but, you know, I worked very - I worked closely - I've been blessed to work closely with chimpanzees in captivity, and to spend time up close and personal with gorillas and chimpanzees from the wild just a couple of months ago. And I can't tell you how magical it is to be able to communicate via sign language with chimpanzees. I can't tell you how magical it was to sit just five feet from a 700-pound silverback mountain gorilla just a couple of months ago.

And so, I think that, you know, the bigger issue here is, how as a society do we treat our closest relatives? And I think we need to use this to reassess whether we should be keeping them in captivity, and whether - and when if they're kept in captivity, if they're kept in more places that are more sophisticated with more well-trained personnel. Look, of course, I feel for the family in that situation. Every - any parent would be terrified. And that was - there's no - there's no right answer for what to do in that situation, but we should never be in a place where we allow that situation to occur.

There should be more enforcements in place in terms of, you know, the - you know, what the cage or what the enclosure is kept. And parents do have more responsibility to understand that we're the guests of the animals when we go to zoos. We're not there to run wild, to taunt them, to, you know, have our children jump in their enclosures. It's -- we are blessed to able to visit them. And I think some of that test

sensitivity is sometimes lost on people.

MALVEAUX: Certainly. And Liz, do you think that they handled this situation appropriately? Do you - do you think that they should have shot and killed the gorilla in this - in this case, in light of the fact that the zookeeper, the manager said that they thought a tranquilizer gun would have agitated the gorilla, and could have been more volatile in that moment, that they did not have that kind of time?

SMITH: Look, again, I'm not - I'm - I wasn't there, and I don't think it's appropriate for me to second guess what people on the scene were doing. There are clearly a lot of exacerbating factors. You know, you saw bystanders screaming, and clearly, I think zoo personnel could have stepped in and calmed the situation down. Maybe removed people from there, because that certainly serves to agitate - you know, would agitate a person, and certainly agitate a wild animal. But do I - look, I'm not here to second guess them.

What I do think, though, is that going forward, that we should assess how we treat gorillas, chimpanzees in captivities - in captivity. And how - we look at the responsibility of, you know, zookeepers and also parents who take their children to the zoo. Even looking at things like putting on age limits for children to go in to certain exhibits, you know, for instance, in Uganda, where-

MALVEAUX: OK.

SMITH: I was just in Uganda. You have to be 15 years old to go visit the gorillas in the wild. And that's because it's - there is a certain amount of responsibility that comes with this.

MALVEAUX: All right. OK. Lis, sorry, we're running out of time here, but I certainly appreciate your perspective and your time. Thank you.

SMITH: Great. Thank you.

MALVEAUX: Thank you. Last hour, we spoke to the woman who actually filmed the video that you watched in that piece. She took us through the whole ordeal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[16:10:40] KIMBERLY PERKINS O'CONNOR, WITNESS: Initially, I was trying to capture a photo of the larger gorilla as he was peeking out of the cave. All of a sudden, you heard the splash, older gentleman started yelling, "There's a child in there. There's a child." And everyone started screaming. Initially, when he approached the edge of the mote, and he was looking down and everybody was screaming, we're trying to calm everybody down, and get them to stop, but he disappeared. In a blink of an eye, he suddenly was down in the mote.

He knocks the child against the wall into the corner, and then, of course, people started screaming, yelling. He dragged the child a little further down in the moat, and he stopped him for a little bit. Almost looked like he was helping him, you know, pulled his pants up, stood him up, and then, all of a sudden, everyone started screaming again, and he pulled him completely out down the other end of the mote. And then the next thing, he brought him up on top of the mote once he was on top of the habitat, dragging the boy, you know, pulling him underneath of him. It was not a good scene.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Kimberly says that she heard the shot that killed the gorilla as she and others were being ushered out of the exhibit area. And parts now on another story of the Coastal South Carolina, they are in high alert after a tropical depression made landfall bringing heavy rain and flooding. You're looking at a highway here. It is in South Carolina submerged in water. Tropical depression bringing all this misery, slowly moving northeast now. So far, there is one report of a missing swimmer in North Carolina. Meanwhile in Texas, mandatory evacuations are in effect that is near Houston.

There are after several flooding killed at least four people. Several others are missing now including a 10-year-old boy who slipped and fell into the Brazos River, just south of Fort Worth. Bloated river is affecting cities across the State. The Mayor of Rosenberg, Texas has declared a state of disaster, telling residents to get to higher ground. Tom Sater has more from the weather center. And Tom, tell us a little bit more about this. Is there an end in sight, all of the rain and flooding that these poor folks are seeing?

TOM SATER, AMS METEOROLOGIST: There is a little bit of an end until Tuesday, I think, Suzanne, when the next batch of rain moves in. But to give you an idea just how unusual it's been in the Houston area and surrounding counties, on Friday, 17 and a half inches of rain. That's a 1-in-500-year rain event. They had the same community they have just a month ago. A 1-in-500-year event picking up a foot of rainfall. Now, we do have some severe weather in the northern part of the state, we'll see thunderstorms in the western part tomorrow, but Tuesday, it moves in. But the problems are not over with now in and around Houston.

It's Fort Bend County, it's Montgomery County. Friday, over 200 water rescues, and as the rain moved through the region, now all the rivers in the area are rising. In fact, a number of them. We're going to show you one. This little blue dot, to give you an idea, all-time record is 126 feet. It's the San Jacinto River, over 120 down right now but moving back up. The Brazos River is rising. Right now, Texas Correctional Facility has got problems, not just with the livestock that has been lost in peppering parts of the interstate, but now, the Texas Justice Department is trying to evacuate not one, but two federal prison facilities. That means by bus, they are calling in for additional support, some extra staff, correctional officers to get and remove 2,600 inmates.

Not from one but two facilities, if they can find the beds to house them somewhere else. Now, there will be more rainfall moving in to the area, but again, that's Tuesday. Again, unbelievable, two 500- year events. Now, what we had, of course, last night at 5:00 p.m., the first tropical storm, its name was Bonnie. It made landfall this morning at8 a.m., but as a tropical depression. But to give you an idea, tropical depression sometimes can cause problems, too. I-95 shut down just north of Savannah. Heavy amounts of rainfall there, nothing like Texas.

It looks like it'll slide off the coast in a couple of days, and then make its way Wednesday off around the outer banks. But because it's a slow mover, I think we'll see more rainfall with this. Again, the problems that they're going to find, area roads shut down just like they have been in parts of Texas and the Houston area. We're going to watch this one closely. You may be wandering, well, why is it called Bonnie? What happened to the letter A? We had an odd storm named Alex back in January. Atlantic hurricane season begins June 1st. Here we go, Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: All right. In to the b's already. And thank you, Tom, I appreciate that. And ahead, Donald Trump criticalled Hillary Clinton and the VA at the Rolling Thunder event in Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[16:15:16] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She thinks that VA is doing good. Did you her statement a couple of months ago? The Veteran's administration is doing a good job. If she thinks they're doing a good job, then I've been wasting a lot of time, because I know the vets, and they are miserable with what's happening.

MALVEAUX: Up next, the military promise Trump made.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL)

[16:18:39] MALVEAUX: Donald Trump rolled through the nation's capital for the annual Rolling Thunder motorcycle rally saluting veterans. The Republican presumptive nominee used the opportunity to criticize the state of our military. He's now actually the nominee, and promised that he would make it great again.

[16:18:58] TRUMP: We have to rebuild our military. It's been decimated. It's been decimated. So, we're going to rebuild our military. We're going to make it bigger and bigger and better and stronger than ever before. We have no choice. We have to do it. And by the way, it's the single, cheapest thing we can do, believe me. So, we're going to rebuild our military, and we're going to take care of our veterans.

MALVEAUX: Seniors complain he is at the rally where Trump's folks. So, Scott, give us a sense how the veterans responded to him. Do they - do they like him? Do they think that he gets it? I mean, he certainly riled up the crowd.

[16:19:40] SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORESPONDENT: Yeah, Suzanne. And it was a pretty interesting crowd out today to hear what was really a traditional Donald Trump stump speech in a pretty non-traditional setting. A lot of the people here as you mentioned are veterans themselves taking part in the Rolling Thunder event. But they were mixed in with a lot of people who are just average, ordinary passersby out for the Memorial Day weekend. A lot of whom didn't even know that Donald Trump would be speaking here today.

The speech itself ticked a lot of the normal Donald Trump boxes. He talked about trade, if you heard, they're building our military, taking care of veterans, the second amendment. And he seemed to get a good reception from the crowd. Here's a bit of a sampling of the reaction when I asked about Donald Trump's support for veterans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's been saying it all along in his entire campaign, he's got the best interest of the vets in mind, and we hope that he holds true to that promise, because they are in need. And hopefully, he does what he says he's going to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, he seems to - he seems to care about the veterans, and he says a lot of things, but all politicians comes down to what they actually do.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MCLEAN: Well, you might remember a couple of months ago, Donald Trump opted to skip out of a Fox news debate and instead hold a competing event to raise money for veterans. Now, he said that he raised $6 million, and he talked about that today. He also talked about the fact that he's going to provide a full accounting of where exactly that money went on Tuesday, because ever since he's been dogged by questions about where exactly the money went. But, Suzanne, Donald Trump is also facing new questions about comments he made about a year ago about Senator John McCain who was formerly a P.O.W.

And Trump said, "I like people who were not captured." And yesterday on CNN, former Senator Bob Dole came out, and added his voice to the list of people who think that Donald Trump should apologize. We asked the campaign about that today, and Campaign Manager Corey Lewandowski, when asked whether Mr. Trump would apologize, he said, "Not that I'm aware." Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: All right. Thank you. It's great reporting, Scott. Scott McLean there on the ground for us. Head of America's infrastructure, of course, needs help, bridges falling apart, airports overloaded. Why it's not so much the security lines, but it's actually the airports themselves. We'll going to explain that up next.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[16:25:34] MALVEAUX: Some of the bridges you drive across every day literally are falling apart now. Bridges all over this country, they are cracking, crumbling, covered in lead paint. 60,000 of them need to be fixed, and there is less and less money set aside to do this. Well, CNN's Rene Marsh is now taking a closer look at the problem.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[16:25:52] RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: 68,000 vehicles cross the Arlington Memorial Bridge between D.C. and Virginia every day. This is what drivers don't see.

[16:26:01] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's just eroding and the concrete is falling off. We have to wear masks and gloves inside of the bridge, because this paint is all lead paint. Now, this beam is helping to support the bridge. And if you take a look, it is badly corroded, and you see how thin that steel is, you see holes in the steel.

MARSH: The original support beams from 1932 have never been replaced.

[16:26:25] RAY LAHOOD, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION: We're like a third-world country when it comes to infrastructure.

MARSH: Federal government spending on infrastructure has declined nine percent from 2003 to 2014. Every state has some degree of bad bridges that need to be repaired. From Los Angeles where trees are growing out of cracks in this bridge to Chicago where netting is in place to protect drivers from falling concrete.

LAHOOD: The reason we have 57,000 deficient bridges is because we have not made the investment as a National Government.

MARSH: Former Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood blames congress for failing to raise the gas tax in 23 years, which funds projects like bridges and roads. Have you been against raising the tax because it's just bad politics?

[16:27:11] BILL SHUSTER, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FOR PENNSYLVANIA: Well, first of all, the economy has been - hasn't been great. Raising the gas tax doesn't solve the long-term funding problem.

MARSH: As congress tries to figure out this long-term solution, bridges are crumbling. So, what do we do right now?

SHUSTER: Well, our bill, the FAST Act which we place - we passed in December, the president signed the law, we put more dollars into focusing on the critical infrastructure.

MARSH: His republican colleague disagrees.

[16:27:35] JIM RENACCI, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FOR OHIO: It's funded for five years, but we use ten years' worth of gimmicks to pay for. These are the kind of things that don't make sense.

MARSH: Anthony Foxx is the current head of the Department of Transportation. But isn't everyone guilty, I mean, when democrats were in control of congress, this situation was what it is today as well.

[16:27:51] ANTHONY FOXX, U.S. SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION: I think every year we go by, the challenge gets that much greater. And that's why we don't have another moment to waste.

MARSH: Researchers at the University Of Michigan believe they may have a solution. A bendable concrete that can heal itself from cracks.

[16:28:05] VICTOR LI, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN PROFESSOR: How about if we set our targets towards creating infrastructures that would last a hundred years.

MARSH: Regular concrete can fail quickly and suddenly, but Prof. Victor Li says bendable concrete can withstand a force hundreds of times more powerful. This sped up video shows how it responds to pressure. Cracks heal themselves with the help of air and water. The technology lines portions of this bridge in Michigan. The hope is it could help already crumbling bridges like the Memorial Bridge near the Nation's Capital.

The Memorial Bridge will shut down in five years if it doesn't get the $250 million needed for repairs. And the lack of funding to fix these crumbling bridges is an issue we're seeing nationwide. Now, bridges in bad condition are regularly inspected to prevent a deadly collapse. And that professor you saw there from the University of Michigan, he was just in Washington, D.C. meeting with government entities to discuss this bendable concrete technology. It just goes to show, even though it is still in the research phase, it has the attention of the Federal Government. Rene Marsh, CNN Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: And coming up, Marco Rubio unfiltered.

[16:29:25] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In one way, you are responsible for an unprecedented moment in American politics when Donald Trump went on stage, and assure the American people that there was no problem, regardless of the size of his hands, I guarantee you, and -

[16:29:35] SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yeah. And you know what, and I -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To be fair to him, you raised that issue.

RUBIO: I did. And so, you know - and I - and I actually told Donald in one of the debates, I forget which one. I apologize to him for that.

MALVEAUX: More on that, plus why Rubio is taking time away from politics.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:30:00] MALVEAUX: Former presidential candidate Marco Rubio is revealing the lessons that he's learned from his campaign and from his former rival republican presumptive nominee, Donald Trump.

Rubio said after the GOP's very first debate he realized his campaign had underestimated Trump.

He spoke to our exclusively Jake Tapper on State of the Union.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBIO: And that was the first time that I think you sensed, you know what it doesn't really matter. I mean, he's figured out something about the electorate that's going to allow him to survive in ways that no one else on the stage will be able to do.

We under estimated how well he understood how the media. And I don't mean this, you know, it's very common for political people to attack media people but it's just the way it is. Media is a business and it's driven by ratings and based on your ratings is what you change your advertisers.

And so, this content is interesting content. It's different. And it's over the top and it drives eyeballs and ears to hear people are saying and to see it. Donald understood that.

So, he's said these outrageous things. If you respond to it it's just giving more fuel to the fire, will be even more coverage about it. If you don't respond to it then, you know, someone who is basically looking the other way. So, you're kind of in a bind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: A lot of Reagan republican strategists, Brain Morgenstern and democratic political analyst Ellis Henican. Ellis, thanks again. Good seeing you guys again.

So, Brian, I want to start up with you hear. Is it just that he got it, Trump got it from the very beginning and, you know, the rest of us didn't really quite understand that he was getting it? That it was all premeditated and strategy, you know, on point from the very beginning because he's a reality TV star and somebody who's used to dealing with like creative that narrative and getting those eyeballs?

BRIAN MORGENSTERN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes, I mean, that's part of it. But the other part of that interview is when Rubio follows up on how, you know, Trump sort of bullying where he names somebody, you know, low energy Jeb and little Marco and is able to come off genuinely as a bully and therefore generate the ratings and sort of benefit and not get the sort of negativity that Marco got when he tried the same bullying tactics because it's not true to himself.

[16:04:58] So, it's a brutal reality that Trump not only understood how to get headlines but could do so in a way that nobody else could and that was hard to difficult to retaliate against.

So, you know, that was some genuine sort of frustration, reflection and I guess just calling it like he sees it now that he is not a candidate.

MALVEAUX: Now, Ellis, what do you think too? Because Trump also had that ability to use social media, right, to say something outrageous and then react to it or send out a tweet which sent out another cycle of a discussion which then dominated the other news cycle. I mean, it kind of really fed off itself for a long time.

ELLIS HENICAN, POLITICAL ANALYST: That's right. And he won. I mean, the point of running for office is to win. And Donald dominated all of the others including poor Marco.

I mean, listen, it sounded to me like a pretty genuine expression. But it's hard to do that and not make it sound a little icky. You know, it's like this is the guy that lost, that one of the guys who lost, and there he is, you know, kind of whining about the pains of losing. I mean, it's sad but I don't know what you can do about it now.

MALVEAUX: Now, well, you know, I mean, he looks like -- he sounds to me like he says, you know, you would run for president again, he would try again for now, he's not in politics but he doesn't rule out to a potentially another run and he is offered Trump an apology.

Brian, do you think this is really kind of a set up here for something? What's next in four years? MORGENSTERN: Well, I think it's certainly -- you know, he intends to

lay the ground work. I think this interview was sort of a televised therapy session/lesson for everybody about the realities of campaigning in politics.

I disagree with Ellis. I don't think it was whining. I think it was just, as I said, you know, sort of calling it like he sees it in hindsight. But to your question about the future, he certainly, I think, would like to run for president again. I don't know that there is another office, you know, elected office that would really capture his interest.

He has expressed interest in NFL commissioner or, you know, working in football as have other politicians like Condoleezza Rice.

MALVEAUX: Condoleezza Rice.

MORGENSTERN: Of course, George W. Bush wants to be MLB commissioner. So, you know, he's in good company there. I think it would be a job that obviously suits his interest and his ability to lead.

But, you know, he may want to run again. And so, staying in the public eye will be important. He will go out his campaign, cycle and campaign for other republicans to stay up there and sort of stand on people's radars.

MALVEAUX: And to both of you, this question here, I mean, because he does bring up some insights that are important for us all of us to reflect on. I wonder if in four years what kind of candidate would need to win the presidency and garner the kind of attention.

What kind of environment will we be in four years when we heard some of the most outrageous statements we've heard from a potential candidate, potential presidential. What more could be done? What needs to be done? What is that person going to be like to really kind of draw that kind of support?

HENICAN: Great question. But I got to tell you, I think the only lesson we learned from this time is you didn't seen nothing yet. I mean, clearly, clearly the old version isn't going to work anymore. There's no reason to think that, you know, we're coming back to the days of Marco or the days of Mitt or Bob Dole or any of that stuff. I mean, get used to the brave new world let's figure it out as we go along.

MALVEAUX: Yes, I think -- go ahead.

MORGENSTERN: Yes. I was going to say, or and I don't necessarily think this will happen but sometimes elections are backlashes, you know, what we've had in the past.

Think about it. We went from George W. Bush to Barack Obama to now Donald Trump captivating, you know, the voters. So, I don't know, maybe we go back to just somebody who's in the fetal position rocking in a corner whimpering. You know, compared to what Donald Trump is. I don't know. MALVEAUX: Hopefully not. Hopefully we move forward. All right. Thank

you so much, guys.

MORGENSTERN: Yes, it will be fun.

MALVEAUX: Brian Morgenstern and Ellis Henican, yes, it's always a lot of fun. That's for sure.

MORGENSTERN: Yes.

MALVEAUX: All right. We'll be right back. Thanks, guys.

[16:40:05] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: Megyn Kelly, Senator Elizabeth Warren, Rosie O'Donnell, Carly Fiorina and Hillary Clinton those are just a few of the women that Donald Trump has had a feud with or still at odds with. Some critics say he has a problem with women.

But former Trump organization executive, Louise Sunshine says he treats both men and women equally. Here's what she had to say about her longtime friend in an exclusive TV interview with our own CNN's Fredricka Whitfield.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOUISE SUNSHINE, FORMER TRUMP EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT: Are we ready?

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No longer working with real estate mogul and now presumptive presidential nominee Donald Trump, Louise Sunshine believes he would bring the same kind of leadership to the White House.

So, describe the Donald Trump that you know.

SUNSHINE: The Donald Trump that I know is a very skilled, intelligent, incredibly determined, very successful, very charming, brilliant businessman, marketeer and to me a very loyal friend.

WHITFIELD: Sunshine, who would have been confined by a very low glass ceiling in the late '70s.

SUNSHINE: The ceiling then could have been two feet high.

WHITFIELD: Credits Trump for some of the first ceiling cracks, bringing her on board. Sunshine eventually rising to executive rank. She's proud of his new ascension.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We love Albany, right.

SUNSHINE: But he must be people around him who, a, are totally familiar with the issues, b, have a great deal of experience in foreign policy, national policy, local governments, the way Washington operates. I mean, I think he will bring something that the United States has never had, ever.

WHITFIELD: So you are voting for Donald Trump?

SUNSHINE: You are not supposed to ask me that question. Because I'm a life-long democrat. I've been a democrat since the day I went into politics.

WHITFIELD: And you know the Clinton's.

SUNSHINE: I do know them very well and admire them.

WHITFIELD: And what do you admire about them? Do you like Hillary Clinton, as a candidate?

[16:44:58] SUNSHINE: I thought that Bill -- I thought Bill Clinton was a brilliant president. I spent a lot of time in the White House when the Clintons were there. I think Hillary is -- I mean Hillary, how old is Hillary?

WHITFIELD: She's a -- I like to say seasoned.

SUNSHINE: Right. So I'm seasoned, too. And I think watching Hillary her energy and her knowledge -- I mean, she can speak to any issue at any time and knows exactly what she is talking about. I totally identify with Hillary.

WHITFIELD: In what ways?

SUNSHINE: In that she has been a great mother, a great wife, and an outstanding brilliant woman who has written books, taught, been loved in a lot of charities, and she's been a leader. She is a leader.

WHITFIELD: Do you see her as being presidential?

SUNSHINE: Definitely. No question about it. And, you know, the comments that are made about her in terms of her marriage, I think what's a woman supposed to do? Half of the men in the world cheat on their wives. And you know what? What does a woman do, she either stands by her man or she gets a divorce.

WHITFIELD: So Donald Trump called her an enabler.

TRUMP: And Hillary was an enabler and she treated these women horribly. Just remember this. And some of those women were destroyed, not by him but by the way that Hillary Clinton treated them after everything went down.

SUNSHINE: I think she handled it beautifully. And if he -- maybe he thinks she was an enabler, but I think she was fabulous.

WHITFIELD: Would you want to see a woman in the White House?

SUNSHINE: I would want to see a woman anywhere. I think women are tremendous. I think women are intuitive. They multitask, they are smart.

WHITFIELD: Couple over things. Would you consider Donald Trump a flip-flopper when he says banning Muslims in one step and now he says, well, it was just a suggestion? Does that make him a flip-flopper? Should people trust his word?

SUNSHINE: He does not -- he is not a flip-flopper. What he is -- what was it that he said on page five of his book? I'm going to play that I am...

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: "Sometimes it pays to be a little wild."

SUNSHINE: That is that. He was being a little wild or a lot wild. A lot of the outrageous things, wild things that he said, you will see him being different.

WHITFIELD: Just as Trump himself states in "The Art of the Deal." "The point is that if you are a little different or a little outrageous or if you do things that are bold or controversial, the press is going to write about you."

He says all press is good press. But Sunshine did want to set the record straight on that Washington Post report last fall revealing Trump had a so-called fat picture of Sunshine that he would bring out from time to time.

SUNSHINE: As a friend, he would simply show me a picture and say, you know, you look beautiful. This is a beautiful picture of you. And I would get the point. But maybe I looked better as a size 6 than a 14 and I thought it was like so fabulous that he did that.

Because today, I keep pictures around of myself, never -- I considered it the nicest thing somebody could do for you. How many friends do you have that would do that?

WHITFIELD: She doesn't recall Trump doing that with male employees. Still she maintains he's not sexist and uses ear plugs when he says something she believes absurd.

TRUMP: Go, I don't know what I said.

WHITFIELD: Things that you say are ear plug moments, doesn't it say something about Donald Trump? Does it say something about his character? Does it say something about how far he is willing to go to get attention or to deflect from issues? Any of that in your view?

[16:49:55] SUNSHINE: For me, what it says, is here goes Donald being outrageous to get the media to talk about him for the next two weeks, nonstop. That's what it says.

WHITFIELD: So, it says less about him in your view and more about those who pay attention...

SUNSHINE: Right.

WHITFIELD: ... to these things and latch on to them and give it a life of its own.

SUNSHINE: Bravo. (END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: It's a fascinating interview. To see more of that interview, head to cnnpolitics.com. We'll be right back.

[16:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: Tomorrow is Memorial Day and in his weekly address, President Obama remembered all those who have served our country.

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BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA PRESIDENT: Right now there are American troops serving in harm's way and standing center around the world. They are veterans who served honorably in times of war and peace and often came home bearing the invisible and visible wounds of war.

They may not speak loudest about their patriotism; they let their actions to do that. And the right time to think of these men and women and thank them for their service and sacrifice is every day of the year.

Memorial Day, which we will observe on Monday, is different. It's the day we remember those who never made it home. Those who never had the chance to take off the uniform and be honored as a veteran.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Thank you for joining us today. I'm Suzanne Malveaux. More CNN Newsroom after this break.

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