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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Candidates on Memorial Day; Rare Primate Shot; Accountability in Zoo Incident. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired May 30, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:16] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

Today we honor those who gave the ultimate sacrifice in preserving our freedom. Presidential candidates doing their part to remember those brave men and women who lost their lives for our country. Presumptive GOP nominee Donald Trump sending out this tweet. "Have a great Memorial Day and remember that we will soon make America great again." Senator Bernie Sanders sent out this post. "It is easy to give speeches about how tough we are, but let us not forget the cost of war on the men and women who serve in our military and people in other countries." And Hillary Clinton shared this tweet. "Our fallen heroes deserve our profound gratitude for giving their lives to protect our freedom today and every day." She followed it with the #memorialday.

In the meantime, when it comes to the race for the White House, the candidates have not stopped this holiday weekend. Last hour, Hillary Clinton and former President Bill Clinton marched in a Memorial Day march in Chappaqua, New York, in a parade. This is an annual tradition for, of course, the town and for this family. Well-received in Chappaqua.

As for Secretary Clinton's rival, Senator Sanders, he is on the West Coast and he is set to hold rallies in Oakland, California. All of this ahead of that all-important pivotal, you name the adjective, June 7th. That is a critical primary for everybody. Maybe not so much for this guy, Donald Trump, who is off after - off for the day. He's not having an events today after this event, appearing for the military veterans in our nation's capital at a rally yesterday. It was the Rolling Thunder Rally.

And despite things being quiet on the campaign trail for Donald Trump, his Twitter account is anything but quiet. It's actually lighting up. Especially after one of his biggest critics, the "Weekly Standard's" Bill Kristol, sent out this tweet reading, "just a head's up. Over the holiday weekend, there will be an independent candidate, an impressive one with a strong team and a real chance."

As we are now used to, this is Trump's response. It came on Twitter and I'll quote Donald Trump. "If dummy Bill Kristol actually does get a spoiler to run as an independent, say good-bye to the Supreme Court!" Quite something.

Let's discuss with a senior advisor for the Trump campaign, Tana Goertz. Also with us, CNN commentator and Hillary Clinton supporter Bakari Sellers and then Tara Setmayer is also with us. She's in the middle of it all wearing pink.

Hello to you all.

Tana, I just wanted to get you to respond. I feel like I have this conversation - it's a little like Groundhog Day. I have this conversation a lot. But Donald Trump typically attacks a person personally rather than the concept that the person is delivering that he finds displeasing. Is that ever going to change? Are we going to see infectives (ph) like "dummy" and "fat person" and - and I can't even repeat all the ones that he's used, in order to make his point. Is he not able to make his point without the foolishness?

TANA GOERTZ, SENIOR ADVISER, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Well, of course Mr. Trump is able to make his point. He's made his point to millions of Americans that have gone out to vote for him, Ashleigh. It's just a matter of if you attack Mr. Trump, he will come back at you and bring out your resume and talk about the things where you failed. So Mr. Trump definitely will be, you know, more presidential, if that's what you want to call it, but his America - the voters -

BANFIELD: When does the start, though, Tana? When does the more - he said he was going to be more presidential. When does it start and what's it going to look like?

GOERTZ: Well, when people stop - stop coming after him. When people stop attacking him. When people realize -

BANFIELD: Tana, you never get a break from that as president. Look at the last eight - look at every presidential administration. You are under the microscope. It is a critique machine. So is this just going to be the way it is because the criticism is not going to change. You don't to be - you get to rule by fiat.

GOERTZ: Well, Mr. Trump is - he's winning. He's doing it his way. And the American people are resonating with him. They're going out and they're voting for him, so it is working. And he is going to do it his way. And that way is winning. So he will most definitely continue to be himself and if people don't want to be attacked, then don't attack Donald Trump.

BANFIELD: All right, so, Tara Setmayer, the notion that Bill Kristol seems to be quite serious about fielding someone, the tweet may be short, but it seems very powerful. Is this - is this actually the spoiler that Donald Trump is tweeting about? Would this possibly be a Republican spoiler?

[12:05:04] TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I'm fascinated -

GOERTZ: You know -

SETMAYER: Just like everyone else. This is something that's been the intrigue of a potential third party or someone else jumping into the race, you know, from Ben Sasse to Mitt Romney himself. This has been going on for a couple of months now because voters are not satisfied with the option that we have in Donald Trump as our nominee. I mean a "Washington Post" poll just came out last week that said 44 percent of the American people would be interested in a third party candidate. So depending on who Bill Kristol puts forth, I think, could be very interesting. I mean we really haven't seen this much of an appetite for a third party in a long time than we've seen now. So it could absolutely have an effect.

But I just can't get over the fact that Donald Trump and his supporters continue to explain away this petulant behavior. You know, I've never seen someone so thin skinned from New York in my life. He walks around and praises and brags about how he's a tough guy, he's a fighter, people like that about him. You know, he's a tough New Yorker. But goodness gracious, if someone says anything critical or has a dissenting opinion, then he acts like a - like a - like a spoiled brat on the playground in fifth grade.

BANFIELD: Well, it's - you know, as Tana mentioned -

SETMAYER: This is not how a president has to be - behaves. He's got a temperament. It's (INAUDIBLE) acceptable.

BANFIELD: As Tana mentioned, it's working. As Tana mentioned, it's working among his supporters. I guess we'll see how many of those supporters turn out in November.

SETMAYER: His supporters. Not a general election.

BANFIELD: Well, it remains to be seen.

GOERTZ: Well, we'll see.

BANFIELD: Bakari, I want you to weigh in on this idea of this third party, but not the one that Bill Kristol is tweeting out about. The libertarians, who had a very big weekend, they finished their convention, their debates, they got their nominee, they have their vice presidential nominee, and it's one, you know, popular Gary Johnson, former New Mexico governor and former Massachusetts governor Bill Weld at the bottom of the ticket. Do the libertarians, who by the way are polling around 10 percent right now and are on all 50 state's ballots, so that's important, do they draw from Republicans or do they draw from Democrats? Who are they more a spoiler for?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I definitely think that they're more in line with the Republican Party. I mean the libertarian branch of government are individuals that come to mind like Ron Paul and Rand Paul. I'm - it's hard for me to believe that someone from Bernie Sanders camp, for example, would jump over Hillary Clinton and go all the way to Gary Johnson. I just don't see that being the case.

BANFIELD: Well, legalize drugs and, you know, women's choice is a woman's choice. Those are definitely not Republican principles.

SELLERS: But what - I mean what you find out is sometimes this arc that we have, it bends and it somewhat touches. You have a lot of Democrats who are in favor of the - the decriminalization of marijuana. That is not something that's that nuanced. However, when you get into some of the other roles the government plays, whether or not you're talking about Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, health care for all, these type things, I mean that is not a true - that is something the Democrats stand for, and not something that libertarians fall in line with.

BANFIELD: OK.

SELLER: But I do think that it's interesting. I think that this whole phenomenon is interesting. What Bill Kristol is talking about, what Gary Johnson is talking about, but none of that bodes well for the Republican Party in November.

BANFIELD: All right, I'm going to have to leave it there, but thank you to all three of you, Tana Goertz, Tara Setmayer and Bakari Sellers, nice to have you here on this Memorial Day. Thank you for being with us.

SETMAYER: Thank you.

GOERTZ: Thank you.

BANFIELD: All three of you, I appreciate it.

Coming up next, yes, a child's life appeared to be in danger, but could the deadly shooting of a rare gorilla at the Cincinnati Zoo have been avoided? We're going to show you the entire terrifying and tragic video, raw and uncut. That's coming up next.

And as a reminder, you can watch LEGAL VIEW any time at cnn.com/go. And you can weigh in on the conversation on Twitter. Just go to cnnashleigh or you can join us on FaceBook as well. Back in a flash.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:12:36] BANFIELD: The Cincinnati Zoo is defending a split second decision that was made to shoot and kill one of their rare gorillas. It happened after a four-year-old boy somehow got into this gorilla enclosure. And this was the image. He came face to face with that 400 pound animal. This happened on Saturday. And the critics right now are saying there were other options than killing the animal. And now the zoo is facing a wave of criticism over this incident, which, by the way, it was captured on camera by zoo visitors. You've probably seen snippets of this video throughout the day, but I want to show you the complete video of the incident so you see how harrowing it was from the spectators and from the zoo keepers perspective. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mommy's right here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Call 911!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Call 911!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody call the zoo! UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God. I don't know how he fall.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mommy's right here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, everybody back up. I think he just - (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mommy loves you. I'm right here.

(INAUDIBLE) my son fell in the zoo -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No (INAUDIBLE) he's playing in it (ph). He was playing in it (ph). He's (INAUDIBLE).

(CROSS TALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please protect him, God. Please, protect him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tarzan (ph), be calm, be calm. Be calm. Be calm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God.

Oh, my God (INAUDIBLE).

(CROSS TALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's the zoo worker.

[12:15:01] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ma'am, just be calm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God, he is (INAUDIBLE).

(CROSS TALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just the mom (ph) to go.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's just sitting there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think she's right there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) my baby.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God, he's (INAUDIBLE). Get the kid (ph).

(CROSS TALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And that's how it played out. In a statement, the zoo says, "we are heartbroken about losing Harambe, but a child's life was in danger and a quick decision had to be made.

CNN's Jessica Schneider joins me live now from the zoo.

The zoo is not the only group putting out a statement. The boy's family is also speaking out. What are they saying?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Ashleigh. The family is not speaking directly to what transpired, but they are saying that their child is safe and that they are grateful. In fact, they've released a statement. They said they're not doing any interviews, but they have released this statement saying, "we are so thankful to the Lord that our child is safe. He is home and doing just fine. We extend our heartfelt thanks for the quick action by the Cincinnati Zoo staff. We know that this was a very difficult decision for them and that they are grieving the loss of their gorilla. We hope that you will respect our privacy at this time."

But in the meantime, anger is boiling over. You can see a very small group of protesters just behind me. They've gathered outside the zoo for a vigil proclaiming justice for Harambe. In addition, a change.org petition is circulating. It already has more than 100,000 signatures. The people on that petition are calling for police and prosecutors to file criminal charges against the parents.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Well, so far we are not hearing that that's in the cards. The police have so far said that's not something they're thinking of right now. Jessica Schneider, thank you for that.

Western lowland gorillas, that's what Harambe was, they're in - critically endangered in the wild right now and there are less than 175,000 of them left according to the zoo. I want to talk more about this with animal expert and host of ABC's "Ocean Mysteries," Jeff Corwin.

Jeff, thanks for taking the time to talk to me about this.

I want to get some perspective here. I was terrified, but I know nothing about gorillas. I know nothing about their body language. I don't know what I would have been thinking were I one of the zookeepers seeing the gorilla behave with the baby in that way. Is there something you can sort of shed light on here?

JEFF CORWIN, ANIMAL EXPERT: Well, what I can tell you is that they are remarkably powerful creatures. These gorillas have huge size, a tremendous amount of strength. And if this gorilla wanted to dispatch this child, it could have done so instantly. This animal's exponentially much stronger than an adult human being. So they're very powerful.

But it's hard to really get in the mind of a gorilla. We know that they are intelligent. We know that they judge their situations and make decisions. And we've seen examples in the past where humans have been in harm's way in a zoological environment and gorillas have actually rescued people. That happened in Chicago. It's happened in the United Kingdom.

But that's not to say this would have been the case. This was a very tough decision for the zoo. And I will tell you, Ashleigh, that this is a remarkable zoo. It's a great center for conservation. It's also an urban zoo. Thousands of inner city kids in Cincinnati learn about nature and connect to wildlife through this zoo. Unfortunately, this was a terrible connection and a terrible tragic moment.

BANFIELD: And so some of the video that's playing besides you as you're speaking, Jeff, is that moment where the gorilla dragged the baby by the foot. And I think we've all seen gorillas swinging their offspring up onto their backs, but I've never seen a gorilla drag one of its own offspring this way and I don't know if that was telling to the zookeepers that this gorilla was not behaving perhaps the way he would normally with a small being, one of his own.

CORWIN: It's a terrifying observation to make, but the truth is, is these gorillas, these lowland gorillas, have incredibly complex and diverse behaviors. Sometimes we see altruism. Sometimes we see a gorilla stepping up to defend a baby adolescent gorilla. But sometimes we see aggression. Just like we see in human beings, the complex array of emotions that we can display, the same is for these gorillas.

[12:20:06] And I've seen examples where primates in the wild, for example like chimpanzees, have dragged other animals around. So it's not unheard of to sort of have a very nerve-wracking moment like this. The great challenge is, is how do you get this child out of harm's way? And the other thing, Ashleigh, we need to recognize is that this gorilla did nothing wrong. It wasn't rampaging through this Cincinnati city like King Kong.

BANFIELD: Yes.

CORWIN: It was just being an animal minding its own business that found itself in such a terrible predicament.

BANFIELD: In an enclosure that, you know, was not his choice either, which I think a lot of the critics are saying. PETA is saying, look, this is an example of enclosures not working. But then on the flip side, this is an example where thousands of kids and people learn about gorillas. They don't have the opportunity to go into the lowlands to see them for themselves.

One other issue about what you just said, the way that zookeepers can entice gorillas. There's been a lot of criticism that they have many different methods to try to entice a gorilla perhaps away from some behavior. Do you see an opportunity that was missed here? I would never armchair quarterback this, but others have. Are they legitimate criticisms? Was there another way to get this child separated from the gorilla?

CORWIN: I think right now a lot of folks that work in this community are soul searching and are heart-wrenched from what has unfolded here. As to what you said before about the enclosure where these gorillas live, you have to remember that this has gone under the scrutiny of one of the toughest organizations when it comes to stuff like this, the AZA. And this enclosure is designed to keep the public safe, to prevent the inmates and the creatures inside of it from escaping, and so it's unusual for someone to be able to gain access. So I think there will be questions asked as to how you could prevent something like this to happen in the future.

I also think the other question needs to be asked is for the public to really recognize their roles as a visitor to a zoo.

BANFIELD: Yes.

CORWIN: When you go there with your family, I'm not saying that this happened with this individual case, but when you're there with your family, you have a responsibility to watch your children. You need to take time away from the selfie sticks and the texting and be there to experience that moment. I don't think this little boy slipped into the enclosure in a matter of seconds. This is something that would have taken time.

Now, when it comes to the life of a human child, what decision do you make? Is there a chance that this gorilla would have let this boy be? Maybe. But what if it hadn't?

BANFIELD: And they said that. And what if they hadn't is the critical question. I think the zookeepers have said that they were absolutely heartbroken, but that the child looked as though the danger was just too imminent.

Jeff Corwin, thank you. Appreciate your time today on this story. I wish we could meet on a different topic, but I appreciate your insight. Thank you.

Coming up next, who is to blame for what happened here? The parents for letting the child out of their sight? It happens to all of us everywhere. What about the zoo for not making the gorilla enclosure more secure so that this couldn't happen in the first place? Should someone be held accountable for what happened? Criminally? Civilly? There's still a lot of questions about this harrowing incident. Those stories, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:27:50] BANFIELD: We've got this just in to CNN. The Cincinnati Zoo is planning to hold a news conference about what happened in that gorilla enclosure on their property. That's expected to happen about 3:00 Eastern Time. We're going to bring it to you live right here on CNN just as soon as it does happen. They put out a statement about how tragic this incident was, but perhaps there will be more information forthcoming at the news conference in about two and a half hours from now.

That rare animal dragged a four-year-old boy who somehow was able to crawl in and then fell in to that enclosure at the Cincinnati Zoo. The critics say that the zoo did not have to ultimately shoot the animal. While some say the parents should have kept a closer eye on their child. For the zoo's part, they said the child was in danger and that was a split second decision that needed to be made. To talk more about this, I want to bring in CNN's legal expert,

analyst, Joey Jackson.

I'm sure that you have parsed this one way or another. Criminally speaking, the authorities have weighed in already -

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

BANFIELD: And they have suggested that they don't see a kind of charge for the parents on this. I doubt highly that this would be a charge for the zoo either. But that's criminal.

JACKSON: Sad scenario. Awful when you think about this. And then when you envision that it didn't have to happen. But let's examine the criminality here. Certainly you can make the argument that parents have an obligation, a responsibility, and a duty to make sure that the children are always in control. That they're supervised. Any parent, however, knows, that in a split instance, a child gets into anything and everything.

BANFIELD: Everything. Everything.

JACKSON: Absolutely. And so do you want to -

BANFIELD: Every one of us has had this happen.

JACKSON: Every one of us.

BANFIELD: If you have a little child, you have had this happen.

JACKSON: Every one of us. And, you know, and so how - it's harrowing and I'm sure we all have, and at home people have their own individual instances. A child runs out into the street. You know, a child jumps into a pool. Anything can happen.

BANFIELD: You're at the zoo and you turn around and you can't find Bobby.

JACKSON: And so the reality is, do you want to start criminalizing, as horrific as this is and the fact that there is a gorilla who's dead and it didn't have to have, do you want to start criminalizing parental conduct when you lose sight of your child for just a split instance. And then if you think about this, and we talked about this, Ashleigh, 1978, zoo opens. This is a very first breach inasmuch as a child getting into an enclosure, right, with the actual gorilla.

[12:30:06] BANFIELD: Thirty-eight years it's been open with no breaches.

JACKSON: And nothing. Nothing. But -

BANFIELD: Thirty-eight years. It's called -

JACKSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: Gorilla World. JACKSON: And so -

BANFIELD: No breaches.

JACKSON: No breaches