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Trump Details Aid for Vets; Possible Third Candidate; Outrage over Gorilla's Death. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired May 31, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:18] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me on this Tuesday. You're watching CNN.

We begin with a rather extraordinary day on the campaign trail. The headline should have been, Donald Trump finally accounts for nearly $6 million he raised for dozens of veterans groups. Boom, done. The who, the what, the how answered. But instead the headline became, Donald Trump unleashing on the media in perhaps the most heated news conference he has had since launching his campaign a year ago.

For months and months journalists, including us here at CNN, did not question the motivation behind Trump's fundraiser, the one he held instead of attending that primary debate, we asked simple questions about the money trail. But instead of simply explaining those details today, Mr. Trump turned the announcement into a storm of insults, name calling and questioning the role of a free press.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm the only one in the world that could raise almost $6 million for the veterans, have uniform applause by the veterans groups and end up being criticized by the press.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: To follow up on that, you keep calling us the dishonest press, the disgusting press -

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, generally speaking that's 100 percent true. Go ahead.

ACOSTA: I disagree with that, sir.

TRUMP: But you know what, when I raise money -

ACOSTA: (INAUDIBLE) veterans -

TRUMP: Excuse me, excuse me, I've watched you on television, you're a real beauty.

Oh, I'm totally accountable, but I didn't want to have credit for it. Now, actually, though, what I got was worse than credit because they were questioning me. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But what you're doing is you're answering the questions now that we had back then. It was just a question.

TRUMP: All right, so -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is a question an attack? Is a question an attack?

TRUMP: Look, here's the story. Here's the story. I think - and I've been dealing with the press a long time. I think the political press is among the most dishonest people that I've ever met. I have to tell you that. I want to make this out of the goodness of my heart. I didn't want to do this where the presses is all involved and all of a sudden everybody's going, where did it go? Who did it go to? Then we said who it went to. Then we said how much was it. I'm not looking for credit. But what I don't want is when I raise millions of dollars, have people say, like this sleazy guy right over here from ABC, he is a sleaze in my book - you're a sleaze because you don't - you know the facts and you know the facts well. Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this what it's going to be like covering you if you're president?

TRUMP: Yes. OK, yes, it is going to be like this, David. If the press writes false stories, I'm going to continue to attack the press. Look, I find the press to be extremely dishonest. I may be right, I may be wrong, but that's who I am. And you think I'm going to change? I'm not changing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let me bring in my colleague, who you saw there at the top of the clip, Mr. Jim Acosta, our CNN senior White House correspondent, who had a front row seat to that today.

Jim, you say Trump is always scathing of the media. You tweet about it. But you say today this felt different. Why?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it was - it was rather pointed. And I think what you saw happen inside Trump Tower behind me a couple of hours ago and unfold over the course of, what, 60 minutes was basically Donald Trump not being very comfortable answering these questions about where this money was going to these veterans groups and he was just visibly angry. And that anger boiled over. And it - and it boiled over in a way that we've sort of seen before. We've seen him out on the campaign trail.

Brooke, you've carried many of his rallies live during your show. You know, he goes after the news media as the disgusting news media, the dishonest news media. And so I sort of felt like it was appropriate there to ask him, well, we're just sort of asking these questions here. Where is this money coming from? Where is it going? And because of those questions, we're not getting an accounting of where that money's going. And as you said at the top of this, this should have been a day where Donald Trump talked about the causes for these veteran groups that he's raising money for. A lot of very good, worthwhile (INAUDIBLE) helping our nation's

veterans. But it sort of was overshadowed by this, you know, Donald Trump going after the news media display that we saw take place over the course of 60 minutes. And as you heard there at the very end of that news conference he said, this is how White House press briefings are going to play out, that he is going to - he's going to engage with the press and if he feels like they're doing bad stories, negative stories on them, he's going to go after them.

But keep in mind, Brooke, this all started back in January when he skipped that Republican debate in order to hold this event. And he said at that event, we've raised $6 million. So all the news media has been doing over the last several months is asked, where is that money coming from, where is it going? And in the last couple of weeks, his campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, said well it's about $4.5 million, $5 million. And then Donald Trump contradicted his campaign manager and said it's around $5 million.

And so these are just questions that are being asked, questions that are being raised. But this is very much what Donald Trump does when he goes after his critics, he hits them hard. He did it against his GOP rivals. He does it against the press. He's going to do it in this upcoming general election battle against Hillary Clinton. This is very much tactical as much as it was emotional.

[14:05:05] Brooke.

BALDWIN: Jim Acosta with the reporting, and I give you props for not missing a beat with some screaming there behind you on a busy 5th Avenue.

Jim Acosta, thank you so much here in New York.

Let's broaden now the discussion and bring in my panel. I have Dylan Byers standing by, CNN's senior media and politics reporter. I have Boris Epshteyn, a Republican strategist and Trump surrogate - Trump supporter, David Fahrenthold, reporter for "The Washington Post," and Mo Elleithee, executive director at the Georgetown Institute of Politics And Public Service and former coms director for the DNC.

Gentlemen, welcome to all of you. And, David, let me just turn and begin with you because we've been reading your "Washington Post" pieces. You have been, you know, for quite a while now, sort of holding Mr. Trump's feet to the fire when it comes specifically to this veteran's fundraiser piece, right? So we'll get to the media bashing in just a second. But, you know, very eloquently sort of outlined the number of questions you wanted answered. Today you were at the presser. Do you feel like you got those answers?

DAVID FAHRENTHOLD, REPORTER, "WASHINGTON POST": Partly. We wanted to know how much in total Trump had raised that night in January, and now we know, $5.6 million. It's less than the original six, but more than what Corey Lewandowski had been telling us a couple of weeks ago.

BALDWIN: Which is still a lot.

FAHRENTHOLD: It's still -

BALDWIN: Let's just pause and say, wow, that's still a lot of money.

FAHRENTHOLD: It's a great deal of money. And for the folks that have gotten these donations, it's been a huge, life changing donation.

BALDWIN: Yes.

FAHRENTHOLD: So the point is not to say that Trump never gave money to veterans, but that he had not been sort of given details about what had happened to the money he said he would personally give and the money he gathered from others to give away. So we know the total figure now. And so the question now is what took so long? And Trump talked a lot about vetting. You know, I had to vet these groups to make sure they were really worthwhile. And we're trying to dig in now to figure out how much vetting really went into selecting the newest (ph) groups that got the money.

BALDWIN: OK. Boris, I'm coming to you in a minute.

BORIS EPSHTEYN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: OK.

BALDWIN: I'm coming to you in minute, because I'm watching you - watching your face.

But, Dylan, to you. Let's just back up and also just mention, you know, it was CNN, it was our investigations unit, it was Drew Griffin, who really exposed the VA story on a national scale. It was January of 2014 when we broke it. And I know that, you know, Drew and David and others have been asking all the smart questions. As David just outlined, you know, still other questions remain here as it pertains to the - to the vets and the vetting, et cetera. Again, it is amazing that $5.6 million has been raised. But the question still must be asked, and, today, Mr. Trump, instead of really focusing on the causes and the veterans, railed on the media.

DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR MEDIA AND POLITICS REPORTER: Well, right. And it's really incredible that he railed on the media on this topic because it's precisely the reporting that has been done by David and others to really press Donald Trump to address this issue and to address it publicly. And had that reporting not been done, had the media not done its job in that regard, we don't know if Donald Trump would have ever addressed this issue. We don't know how much money he might have raised for charity had the media not pressed him on this.

And what he's doing here is he's coming back at the media and he is criticizing the media in large part to sort of make the story about Donald Trump verse the media once again, to draw attention away from the fact that he might not have raised this much money, to also draw attention away from something else that's going on today, which is, of course, the controversy over Trump University. Any day that Donald Trump can make the story Trump verse the media, that plays very well with his base and it goes further to inoculate him against criticism and objective inquiry from the media. And you look at every reporter in that room today at that press conference, they were doing their jobs despite what Donald Trump says. But that's not what his followers believe. They believe they're biased and dishonest and everything else that he's called them.

BALDWIN: So then, Boris, let me just turn to you, and I do want you to respond to all of this.

EPSHTEYN: Sure.

BALDWIN: But also just mentioning, you know, Trump said he didn't want any credit, but at the top of his presser he said, essentially, you know, the media's not being nice to me and I'm not getting any credit.

EPSHTEYN: Well, he said he didn't want any credit because the plan was to raise the money, to donate the money and not to have a big presser talking about it. And what Dylan said is so unfair, that Trump may not have given the money if he wasn't somehow pressed by the press. That is so unfair and completely out of line, frankly, to question someone's motives who did have this event, did raise the money and gave $1 million of his own money. So if we talk about the unfair press, that's a perfect example of it, right, saying that how can you put it out there. You have no idea, Dylan, whether somebody would or would not give the money.

BALDWIN: But this is - I can't - I can't crawl into Donald Trump's head.

EPSHTEYN: Right. And neither can I, right?

BALDWIN: And I don't know what his intentions were. Again, I say it again, I think it is extraordinary, the $5.6 million going to all these amazing groups.

EPSHTEYN: Over 92 percent of the (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: Yes. Yes. But this is also somebody who wants to be the leader of the free world -

EPSHTEYN: Right.

BALDWIN: And we, the press -

EPSHTEYN: Sure.

BALDWIN: The free press -

EPSHTEYN: Right.

BALDWIN: Thank goodness in this country, should get to ask the questions.

EPSHTEYN: Well, absolutely.

BALDWIN: Well, you're asking.

EPSHTEYN: And -

(CROSS TALK) EPSHTEYN: If you get to ask the questions, but the premise of, he wouldn't have given the money if the press hadn't asked is ridiculous and out of line.

BALDWIN: Jump in. Jump in.

FAHRENTHOLD: One interesting parallel I see here is Trump talks a lot about the VA, how terrible the VA is. And as you've said, there are a lot of problems at the VA.

BALDWIN: Yes.

FAHRENTHOLD: Trump uses - says, well, I'm the kind of person who can fix the VA. You think about how complicated, how much money, how many people, how many rules are involved in fixing the VA, it - this - what's happened here, which is raising $6 million, finding groups, distributing it, that - this is a much less complicated thing that Trump has just done and he's really been unhappy about the scrutiny he's received over this relatively simple operation. So to me it's an interesting parallel between that and what it would take to reform the VA.

[14:10:14] BALDWIN: Mo, Mo, let me bring you in. I want to hear your voice and I'm assuming you would call this, you know, a nightmare potentially for a campaign, but won't this help? Will this help among, you know, Trump supporters, everything that he, you know, stood by and said today?

MO ELLEITHEE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GEORGETOWN INSTITUTE OF POLITICS & PUBLIC SERVICE: Yes, I think both the Trump campaign and the Clinton campaign are happy with that performance because they both are actually able to reinforce some - a narrative that they want to drive. The Clinton campaign can point to this and says, see, this is the Donald Trump who is unhinged, who will rail against anyone who even remotely starts to criticize him. This is the risky Donald Trump we've been talking about. And the Trump campaign can point to this to their supporters and say, see, this is the guy who will take on the establishment, will take on the media and fight against these injustices. So both sides are going to be able to - to frame it the way they want to.

Now, I think there were some definite points in there that hurt Donald Trump. The notion that him saying I never wanted any credit, when the - when the whole thing was around an event that he held in January in Iowa where he was trying to take credit for helping veterans. That's laughable.

BALDWIN: He didn't attend the debate. He didn't attend the debate, right. Instead, he held -

ELLEITHEE: Right.

BALDWIN: Or he was participating in the fundraiser to raise money for veterans.

ELLEITHEE: Right. EPSHTEYN: And there's nothing wrong with that. Isn't that great? Isn't that a great thing to do?

ELLEITHEE: The notion that he's saying - the -

EPSHTEYN: Instead of going to one of the 18 debates or whatever it was.

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Mo.

ELLEITHEE: Look, look, he's saying, I didn't want any credit for it, OK? Now, he's also saying, take my word for it. How dare you question my motives. Take my word for it. This is a guy who questions motives all the time. He didn't afford the president of the United States that same courtesy when he questioned his birth certificate, right? I mean it's just - there are so many inconsistencies in here. What made this truly remarkable was not that he went after the press. That is about as typical Republican tactic as you can get. There - it was about as typical as you can get in the Republican Party to attack the mainstream press.

What made it truly outrageous and truly fascinating was the anger. The anger that we saw there. I mean you don't see that very often from a presidential campaign. You don't see that - it raises questions about how thin skinned Donald Trump really is.

EPSHTEYN: No, not at all.

ELLEITHEE: But, I mean, (INAUDIBLE), to borrow a phrase of Donald Trump -

BYERS: Well, and I would also -

BALDWIN: Isn't that why so many people like him?

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Dylan?

BYERS: No, I would like to just say that, look, look, it's not just that he's thin skinned and that he can barely stand up to any level of scrutiny whatsoever, it's that his expectations of the press are that they should just sort of be laudatory in terms of what happened today. He says, you know, why aren't you guys out there sort of saying how great this thing is? It's that idea (INAUDIBLE) serious question.

EPSHTEYN: Well, Dylan, you're bias is shining through just everything you're saying.

BYERS: No, I don't - I don't have any bias for or against Donald Trump. I have a bias for the truth and a bias for accountability.

EPSHTEYN: Oh, come on, Dylan. But, be honest.

BALDWIN: No, but what about this point?

BYERS: And there's no accountability with Donald Trump.

BALDWIN: What about this point? And this is before I ask you all to stand by and, Boris, I'll turn to you.

You know, listen, it's our job to have thick skin, right?

EPSHTEYN: Sure.

BALDWIN: And we're the press. We ask tough questions. People aren't always really nice to us. We get over that. But, you know, for somebody to sit there and ask Donald Trump, will this be how you treat the White House press corps if, in fact, you're elected president? OK, great, whatever. But is this how you would treat critics, world leaders? Because you know the second you are sitting in that Oval Office in the White House, you have critics in every corner of the globe. And he said today he's not changing. Is that OK?

EPSHTEYN: Well, Donald - Donald Trump throughout his career has shown unbelievable ability to be successful in the boardroom, in negotiations, with folks all over the - all over the world, both world leaders -

BALDWIN: But I'm not asking you about success.

EPSHTEYN: Both world leaders.

BALDWIN: Tone.

EPSHTEYN: Both world leaders and business people. But tone matters to a degree, but success is what matters in this country. We want America to be successful, right? Does tone really matter? Ask Teddy Roosevelt, who was not, you know, someone who was meek. He was very brash. Truman, very brash. Very successful presidents who had that ability to be out there.

Now, if I just may respond to what Mo was saying, there's not one voter out there who is not going to vote for Donald Trump based on what today was. Voters are angry and he's channeling that anger and the voters are attracted to it. We've seen it in the primaries and we'll see it in the general.

BALDWIN: I agree with you.

EPSHTEYN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: (INAUDIBLE) speaks to a lot of people.

Let me ask all of you to stand by. I'm not finished with you all yet. I still have more.

But just quickly, a reminder to all of you watching, Jake Tapper will be interviewing Hillary Clinton this afternoon on "The Lead." That is coming up after my show, 4:00 Eastern here on CNN. Certainly she will respond to what we're discussing.

Meantime, coming up next, Donald Trump responds to a prominent conservative suggesting he has found a third party candidate to run against this presumptive nominee. How Mr. Trump responded to that and other political narratives from - from the presser. Also ahead, Hillary Clinton gets a huge endorsement of someone who has

had a long-time feud with her, and specifically her husband. Why the bad blood has been wiped clean.

And breaking news involving the death of that gorilla at the Cincinnati Zoo. Have you heard about this? Prosecutors now revealing an investigation is, in fact, underway. Hear why.

You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:18:59] BALDWIN: All right. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We're back with our panel. Trump supporter Boris Epshteyn, "Washington Post" reporter David Fahrenthold and Mo Elleithee, former communications director for the DNC.

So, let's begin now with what Donald Trump said today about "Weekly Standard" editor Bill Kristol who said - tweeted out over the weekend, he has this impressive, independent candidate who is in the works.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Bill Kristol's a loser. His magazine is failing, as you know. I's going to be down - I don't think it even survives. He's getting some free publicity. But Bill Kristol - I've been watching this for two years. Trump isn't going to run. Then I go into a race. We go into New Hampshire. Oh, he's not going to win New Hampshire. Win in a landslide. I go - every place I went I was not going to win, but I win in a landslide. Do you think maybe he doesn't like me?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Well, I can tell you, Bill Kristol responded to that on Twitter. Quote, "I gather Donald Trump said I'm a loser. I've won some and I've lost some. One thing I've always tried not to be is a roaring jackass." Can I say that on CNN? OK, good, because I just did.

David, turning to you first. Just on - to his point, and a lot of people saying, well, what the heck is Bill Kristol doing because we're supposed to have this candidate by the end of the holiday weekend. It's Tuesday. What's going on?

[14:20:10] FAHRENTHOLD: Well, I don't know. And it - the longer this goes on, the less relevant it becomes because a lot of states filing deadlines are passing and so whoever he finds is going to have a hard time even getting on the ballot in a lot of states.

BALDWIN: But, still, even if he were to get on for a number of key states, that could make a dent.

FAHRENTHOLD: But then you - then that candidate has to run as this sort of kamikaze candidate, right? They're not actually hoping to be president. You're hoping to take somebody else out. And that's a lot harder to run.

BALDWIN: People are - people are willing to take great lengths apparently this - this go around.

So you still - you don't know what's up with this?

FAHRENTHOLD: I don't know what's up with it, no.

BALDWIN: OK.

EPSHTEYN: It's great comic relief, that's for sure.

BALDWIN: OK. What about Susana Martinez. I want to ask you, Trump surrogate.

EPSHTEYN: OK.

BALDWIN: I'm correcting myself. Trump was asked about his attacks against - she's one of the country's most, you know, prominent governor, Latina governor, Susana Martinez, telling a rally in Albuquerque, this is Trump recently, "she's got to do a better job." So here was Mr. Trump today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She was not nice and I was fine, just a little bit of a jab, but she wasn't nice and you think I'm going to change? I'm not changing, including with her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, she is well liked, Republican, Latina, head of the Governor's Association. She is not someone he should be irking. Why is he not courting her instead of saying what he just did?

EPSHTEYN: Because he's not a regular politician, right? She was in New Mexico. He's identifying that she was in New Mexico (INAUDIBLE) and he's being honest about it. A regular politician would do anything he could to bring her to his side.

BALDWIN: But isn't he trying to unify a party and the coalescing behind Mr. Trump and she's a mega voice in the party?

EPSHTEYN: Well, the key is, for the other - for the rest of the party to realize that the voters are behind Donald Trump. Unfortunately, Governor Martinez is not quite there yet. She should be. And he - she's voicing concerns about him, as she has done, and he has the full right to voice his concerns about her. So it goes both ways.

BALDWIN: Mo, to you sir, finally here on the - the Clinton campaign strategy. You know, they released this press release ahead of this Trump Tower news conference, getting ahead of it, attacking Trump on his record on vets. We know she's calling in to talk to Jake Tapper later today. She's been calling in ala, you know, Donald Trump to a couple of networks recently. What do you make of this - this new strategy here? ELLEITHEE: Well, I think it's smart. Look, I mean one thing you've got

to give Donald Trump credit for, for a guy who just spent, you know, an hour railing against the media, he is as successful as he is in this race because of his master manipulation of the media. He knows how to use the media to his advantage and he's rewriting the rules on how to do it. Which mean that is the Clinton campaign has got to be able to tactically be able to compete in terms of getting media attention.

Now, I'd argue Hillary Clinton's probably the best suited Democrat out there to be able to do that, but it means, you know, they're going to have to throw caution to the wind a little bit and get out there and take every chance that they can to drive their message against him. Otherwise, he can actually drown them out to some extent. Not entirely. But drown them out to some extent in the media coverage.

BALDWIN: All right. Mo and Boris and David, thank you all very much.

EPSHTEYN: Thank you so much.

BALDWIN: I appreciate the time today.

Coming up next, police are now investigating the shooting death of a gorilla at the Cincinnati Zoo after this three-year-old boy dropped into this enclosure over the weekend. This as the debate is growing over who, if anyone, is actually to blame for this. What the local prosecutor is now saying, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:27:56] BALDWIN: The outrage over the shooting death of a beloved gorilla at the Cincinnati Zoo, it is mounting and now CNN has learned the city police and the county prosecutor are looking into the incident. The gorilla, Harambe, was killed to save the life of this three-year-old little boy who slipped into his pen. An online petition calling for the child's parents to be held accountable for the endangered animal's death now has more than 300,000 signatures.

Meantime, the zoo has performed a necropsy on the gorilla. A research doctor also extracted and froze his genetic material. Not clear exactly what will happen with his remains. Our correspondent there has been working this for us is Jessica Schneider. She has more from Cincinnati Police. Also with us today here in New York, CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson.

But, Jessica, to you. You know, when I saw the bit from police about this investigation, my question immediately was, who are they investigating? Is the target of the investigation the mother? The zoo? Both?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brooke. So right now the only thing that the police department and the prosecutor are saying is that they're investigating this very tense ten minutes when that four- year-old boy was yanked and dragged violently by the gorilla. They are not saying exactly who or exactly what they're investigating. But regardless, this is a new development after the - three days after

that very tense incident. So to put a fine point on it, the Cincinnati Police Department saying this in a statement. "The Cincinnati Police Department is reviewing the circumstances surrounding the incident with the gorilla at the Cincinnati Zoo. After the review, we will determine if charges need to be brought forward. If it is determined charges need to be brought forward, we would then discuss it with the Hamilton County Prosecutor's Office."

Now, the prosecutor's office releasing nearly an identical statement, refusing to say exactly what they're investigating, only saying that they'll release the details of this to the media when the whole investigation is complete. And, again, no exact timeline on that either, but you would presume that the police have to interview witnesses, maybe look at some video and find out exactly what happened because all we know is that what we've seen in that short time frame of video but I'm sure police will dig much deeper.

[14:30:08] Brooke.

BALDWIN: You know, we sat here, Joey Jackson, on this show for 45 minutes, listened, you know, hung on the every word of the zoo director there in Cincinnati.