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Ex-Workers Testify Against Trump University; Child's Family Releases New Statement; Republicans for Hillary? Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired June 01, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00] DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Or so before it went out of business in 2010. And these declarations which were filed in court in San Diego and released yesterday are really damning from an inside perspective.

Consider the declaration of Ronald Schnackenberg. He was sales manager with Trump University from October 2006 to -- May 2007. And that's when he said, "I resigned my position in May of 2007 because I believe that Trump University was engaging in misleading, fraudulent and dishonest conduct."

"In my experience," he writes, "virtually all students who purchased a Trump University seminar were dissatisfied with the program they purchased and that it preyed on the elderly and uneducated to separate them from their money."

This involved what is being called upselling where you get people into these free 90-minute seminars, Carol, as we've been reporting and then try to sell them a three or a five-day seminar, upwards of $34,000. And as we have been reporting all along now, there was a playbook on how to actually get people to use their credit cards, to max out their credit and tell them that they were going to be rich and immediately be able to pay back themselves, according to the documents released it was all really just a scheme to try to get money from vulnerable people.

There's a second declaration. Jason Nichols, sales executive from May 2007 to October 2007. He said, "The Trump University instructors and mentors were a joke. Most of them were not experts in real estate and the whole focus of Trump University was on selling, not on teaching."

There's reference to one real estate instructor who is actually a jewelry salesman and we've reported many of them didn't even have high school graduations.

In Defense, there is also a declaration from a person who worked at Trump University who kept track of all of those evaluations that Donald Trump has been talking about on the campaign stump, Carol, for several months now talking about his 98 percent, 97 percent approval rating for anybody who went into a Trump instructor led class. And this person, Mark (INAUDIBLE), does say he was the keeper of those records and said of all of the students that had to fill out those evaluations at the end of the seminars, he said 97 percent gave Trump University a 4.85 or better on their five-point rating. So all this information is out there now. This is all part of these

continuing fraud cases against Trump University, the defunct real estate seminar school that Trump allegedly took in $40 million during the course of that.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I think -- I think perhaps the most disturbing thing to emerge from these documents is the allegations that Trump University preyed upon the elderly and uneducated to separate them from their money.

So I know you gave us some specifics of how Trump University allegedly did that but give us more. Explain.

GRIFFIN: Well, they would have -- they would have lead sheets, they would have seminars, and they would bring people in. They would target a certain market. They wanted people who wanted to make money, who perhaps were unsettled about where they were in terms of their retirement, but had enough net worth, $200,000 or better, that they would be able to draw upon credit.

We talked to one man, a Navy veteran for 40 years out in California, Felicisimo Limon. He was retired, he was looking to pad his retirement funds, and leave something for his kids. This guy went into a seminar and started believing that really Donald Trump, this is what he told me, Donald Trump himself personally wanted to make him wealthy. That same day, within hours, his credit card was swiped for $26,000. In fact he had to put together a couple of credit cards to get that.

He's never gotten his money back. He said he learned nothing in the class and he said he was just a victim of this upselling motivational speaker type scheme that was designed to separate him from his money just like it said in one of the declarations today.

COSTELLO: Very disturbing allegations. Drew, I'm going to let you get back to it. I know you're still poring over those documents. Thanks so much.

I want to bring in Phil Mattingly now, Sally Kohn, who's a columnist for "The Daily Beast" and CNN political commentator, and Gina Louden, a Trump supporter.

Thanks to all of you.

Phil, I'm going to address the first question to you. So these are pretty serious allegations.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right.

COSTELLO: And they seem to prey on the very people who are supporting Donald Trump's campaign. So how might the candidate respond to this?

MATTINGLY: Well, there's a couple of theories here. First he has lashed out at the judge that's overseeing this case. And I think this has been one of the more unsettling things from people that have been watching this entire process play out. This judge was born in Indiana. He's of Mexican descent. But Donald Trump on the campaign trail has repeatedly referred to him as a, quote, "Mexican," kind of riling up his supporters as he questions the judge's rationale behind continuing this case, behind releasing documents like were released yesterday.

So he's lashed out a bit about the case but he's made very clear, thinks he's in the right, he thinks he will win this case.

[10:05:04] He could have settled the case long ago but chose not to because he thinks he can win. And as Drew pointed out, Donald Trump's lawyers have pointed to the sheets of recommendations for the course that 97 percent gave it a 4.8 rating or above. The lawyers themselves say they have depositions that haven't been unsealed yet that counter a lot of the claims that we've seen yesterday.

But one of the interesting elements here is, as you dig through these documents, there is not much that looks good out of there. This is the type of thing that in a normal election cycle with a normal candidate would be severely problematic. And one of the theories as to what happened yesterday when Donald Trump really lashed out at the media is that he works very well to draw attention away from potentially problematic issues on campaign trail. He did it by attacking the judge. He's done it by attacking the case in general.

And yesterday he lashed out at the media about a totally separate issue at the same exact time these documents were being released. And I think if you talk to both Republicans and Democrats who are watching this race closely, they think there's a very good chance there's a correlation there.

COSTELLO: OK. So, Gina, I'm going to get to you, don't worry. But I wanted to get Sally's input in this because if you're a Democrat and you don't support Donald Trump, you're looking at these documents and you're kind of saying, wow.

SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, you're sort of saying wow and you're saying, look, this is just an extension of what his campaign is. I mean, this is a sort of -- a false swindle, saying, I'm going to promise you all these things, all you have to do is trust me and oh, well, you know, at the end of the day when it doesn't work out, you're just out your democracy, and I, Mr. Trump, I get the big prize.

I mean, this is sort of -- and I want to go back to the evaluation point, which is just because something is popular, doesn't mean it isn't also fraudulent and wrong and dangerous, and I think again, that's where Trump University and the Trump campaign are pretty analogous.

Trump can be as popular as he wants with voters. That doesn't mean -- that he isn't actually ultimately both perpetuating a fraud in terms of his credibility and qualifications to be president and ultimately proposing to do something very dangerous with the American economy, with our standing in the world. You know, we should see this as a warning and start to take this really seriously and then look at who we're on cusp of electing. COSTELLO: So, Gina, you're a Trump supporter. What do you make of

these documents?

GINA LOUDEN, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, I think that first of all that it's interesting that we're looking at this on the heels of him giving more than $5 million to veterans just yesterday with his organization and you hold his organization up to, for example, the Clinton Foundation that keeps upward of 80 percent of the money raised. They are not doling that money out.

And I'm looking for Hillary's donations to veterans. I'm not seeing that. And I look at -- when you use words like dangerous with regard to Mr. Trump, I don't know. To me dangerous are the things that the Clinton administration has done, the long history of what they've done to women and Hillary's cover-up of that, and lack of defense of women in the face of the things that were done and perpetuated by her husband, not just the extra marital affairs but also some of the abuses.

And so those are the sorts of things that I see as a voter that perhaps people are looking at and saying, I don't know, that looks a little more dangerous to me than somebody who had a -- something they were selling like any university does and they sold it. I don't see how -- I mean, of course there were going to be people that were disgruntled but I don't think that that necessarily translates to somehow dangerous.

COSTELLO: OK. So Hillary Clinton did articulate what she's done for veterans and we're pulling that sound now. She said that on Jake Tapper's show. We don't have it yet but we're going to get that. But she said Trump needed to be shamed into honoring his commitments to the veterans and that's really why he ponied up all of that money. Right? So I'm just giving you the other side.

Sally, how would you respond to it? Are -- is the media looking closely enough at the Clinton Foundation?

KOHN: As far as I know, the numbers that Gina just gave are fully incorrect and the Clinton Foundation, look, hold them up to scrutiny, do that. But you don't respond defensively to legitimate critique. So the Clinton Foundation does fantastic work in the world, should be scrutinized by the media, has been by the way scrutinized by the media. But again, to say that oh, you know, Hillary Clinton in private conversations, you know, saying nasty things about her husband's mistresses is any way shape or form analogous to Donald Trump saying he would like to bankrupt this country, that he wants Japan to get nuclear weapons, that he wants to, you know, talk to Kim Jong-un.

Just his extreme level of lack of knowledge, let alone some of the things he's planned to do, that he wants to ban, 30 percent of the world from participating in our economy. 30 percent of the world. Ban them, outright.

[10:10:09] That he wants to attack judges who try to hold him accountable. Think of that as president, and he said, this is how I'm going to behave as president. More of the same. That level of irresponsibility and recklessness, I'm sorry, it's unprecedented. So say whatever the heck you want to say about anyone else, but that's indefensible.

COSTELLO: And Gina, I have that Hillary sound right now, and I'm going to play it and then you can comment on the other side. So here's Hillary Clinton telling Jake Tapper what she has done for veterans, let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I of course have given money to veterans charities and John McCain and I actually helped raise funding for the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund at Brook Army Medical Center to build a rehabilitation facility for veterans to get the very best world class rehabilitation services.

I've also worked starting as first lady to deal with some of the problems veterans had, whether it was Agent Orange or whether it was a mysterious illnesses they were bringing back from the Gulf War. I worked as a senator on the Armed Services Committee on many things, for example increasing death benefits for families of the fallen from just $12,000 to $100,000. And I worked with Senator Lindsey Graham to expand health care to National Guard and Reserve members.

And so much of the work that I've done has tens of millions of dollars in increased benefits to veterans and their families as well as personal commitment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: And just to make clear. The Clinton Family Foundation has donated $105,000 to veterans related charity organizations.

So, Gina, your comments after that.

LOUDEN: Yes, it doesn't change the fact that the Clinton Foundation hangs on to more than 80 percent of the money that is raised that's not given out.

COSTELLO: Where are you getting that figure?

LOUDEN: It's out there. It's everywhere. You can Google it yourself. But here's the thing, too. You look at how the Clinton Foundation has raised its money. Hillary Clinton herself says that her family was dead broke when they came out of the White House, not all that long ago. Within six years of being secretary of state, Hillary Clinton somehow has gone to being a multi, multi-millionaire, more than $100 million made in speeches, sometimes to foreign government that are enemies of the United States.

This kind of thing -- the questions need to be asked. And let's not forget, she still has refused to release the transcripts of her speeches made on Wall Street. Again, more millions of dollars. This is someone who's claiming to represent the little guy, claiming to represent women and yet the track record is just not there. KOHN: I'm sorry, but what point does this not become OK? At what

point -- you can't do that. This is a democracy. This is a civil society. We actually care about facts and information and at what point, at what point in this crazy mess of an election does it become unacceptable to address real serious, substantive concerns with your candidate by continuing to deflect and attack?

At a certain point we have to just -- we have to call that. We have to say that's not OK. So I'm sorry, but we're talking about your candidate who wants to be president of this country making $40 million, not by giving speeches, not by whatever, scrutinize that if you will, but we're talking about --

(CROSSTALK)

LOUDEN: You're talking about allegations here that are wholly unproven.

KOHN: They are allegations by this former employees that he swindled him --

LOUDEN: To take allegations --

COSTELLO: I'm going to stop you both right there. I'm going to bring in Phil Mattingly because I don't know where you're getting your figures so kind of makes me uncomfortable. I don't know where you get that 80 percent thing. And I don't get my information by Googling.

So I wish I could -- answer your question factually but I just don't have the information right now. So I'm going to go to Phil Mattingly and we're going to talk about -- you know, this is clearly going to be an issue for both candidates going forward.

MATTINGLY: No question.

COSTELLO: So how will this play going forward?

MATTINGLY: I think the interesting thing is the Clinton Foundation is a very real issue for the Clinton campaign to deal with. And it's one they've been dealing with over the course of the entire campaign.

The interconnectivity between Hillary Clinton's role at the State Department, the foundation, how Bill Clinton raised money, how the foundation raised money, they are very real questions there, there are very real issues there and there have been a lot of reporting done. There has been a lot of reporting done on those issues and I think we're going to see more going forward.

The interesting thing with Donald Trump is you take a businessman, a very successful by his own account, many times over, businessman, who enters the political arena. You are going to receive scrutiny on every aspect of your business record. Now plenty of Republican candidates who are no longer in the case will argue that maybe that scrutiny wasn't done at the level it should have been during the Republican primary when there's 17 candidates and you're digging into all of them, maybe there's some truth to that. [10:15:11] But the reality is for Donald Trump, whether it's Trump

University, whether it's specific real estate deals, whether it's his ties, his steaks or his water, all of that will now be dug into. And anything that looks improper, anything where there have been lawsuits and there have been dozens of them over the course of his career are now fair game for the press to look into.

And I think the issue that came up yesterday where he kind of lost it a little bit about how he was scrutinized related to his veterans donations, that's the reality of running for president of the United States. And I think the issue here is both candidates are going to have their records dug into. The disadvantage Donald Trump has here is he hasn't gone through this before. And because of the businesses that he's run, and there have been many and as he said he's billions of dollars on them. That means there's a lot of lawsuits to dig through, there's a lot of litigation to dig through, and there are a ton of records to dig through.

Reporters are going through all of that right now. That's all fair game and that means that Donald Trump is going to deal with this whether he likes it or not until November.

COSTELLO: All right. Phil Mattingly, Sally Kohn, Gina Louden, thanks so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, the family of that little boy who fell into the gorilla enclosure. They have a new statement, what they are saying now, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:20:12] COSTELLO: The family of that little boy who fell into a gorilla pit is speaking out once again, issuing a new statement as the family faces intense scrutiny of what they were doing moments before the boy fell into the enclosure.

This new statements reads, in part, "Some have offered money to the family which we do not want and will not accept. If anyone wishes to make a gift, we recommend donations to the Cincinnati Zoo in Harambe's name." That's the gorilla's name.

Now we don't know much about the family except that the boy's mother is a daycare worker who wants to remain anonymous. Investigators say they are now focusing on the boy's family that day, though. A key witness, maybe the woman who shot this footage at the zoo.

Here's Jessica Schneider. She's live in Cincinnati with more on that. Good morning.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. You said it, the scrutiny has been intense and the Internet backlash has been swift. A lot of people are wondering what were this boy's parents doing in the minutes before he came face to face with a gorilla. Well, that will be exactly the focus of the police investigation. They'll be honing in on the parents' actions and potential inactions. The parents and family, however, have not spoken out about this police

investigation. They've only released a statement. You gave part of it, the other part says, quote, "Our child has had a checkup by the doctor and is doing well. We continue to praise God for his grace and mercy and to be thankful to the Cincinnati Zoo for their actions taken to protect our child."

But people really want to know, how did that 3-year-old boy get through a barrier that zoo officials say was secured. I've had many people tweeting, asking me, what does this look like? Well, take a look at this. This is video that was shot by a zoo visitor just one day before this incident. You can see them walking up to the barrier itself. Zoo officials say it's about a three-foot high rail barrier. Past that there's a brush and also some protective wiring. Then there's a moat wall before that 10 or so foot drop into the moat itself. Zoo officials say that there has never been a breach since this Gorilla World exhibit opened in 1978 but that witness who shot the whole video, she does say where there's a will, there is a way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIMBERLY O'CONNOR, WITNESS: The little boy was a typical little boy like at the candy store, can I get this, can I get that? And he wanted jokingly and bantering to go in and see the monkeys and the mother was, you know, no, you're not. No, you're not. And I think as they got ready to leave, that to tend to the other children, gather them up, get them in the stroller and move everyone along, I think in the 60 seconds he got away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHNEIDER: Just 60 seconds. Well, the Cincinnati Police Department has stressed that only the parents are the focus of this investigation, not the zoo. The zoo of course falls under the federal government purview under the USDA. The USDA was last here doing a check back in April -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Jessica Schneider, reporting live from Cincinnati. Thank you.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Reaction among all of your Republican friends.

DOUG ELMETS, FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT, ELMETS COMMUNICATIONS: They think I've lost my mind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Long time GOP operative breaks with the party. He says he actually supports Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [10:28:01] COSTELLO: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thanks so much for joining me.

Hillary Clinton delivers a major foreign policy speech tomorrow in California. A delegate rich state that could clinch her party's nomination. But beyond the primary she is looking to win over Republicans who have national security concerns regarding Donald Trump and some longtime GOP loyalists are answering her call.

CNN's Kyung Lah has more for you.

LAH: Well, Carol, it's something that we first noticed o social media. Republican for Hillary. But what began as something snarky on Twitter has now real Republicans embracing it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAH (on camera): What happens to the Republican Party if Donald Trump becomes the president?

ELMETS: That's a scary prospect.

LAH (voice-over): So scary to lifelong Republican Doug Elmets that he's left with only one choice.

ELMETS: It's going to be an easy vote. Four years of Hillary Clinton is better than one day of Donald Trump as president.

LAH (on camera): Have you ever voted for a Democrat?

ELMETS: Never. I've never voted for a Democrat in my entire life.

LAH (voice-over): This is more than the never Trump or stop Trump movement. Elmets is part of Republicans for Hillary. Not just a Twitter hash tag, Elmets is actively urging prominent Republicans to vote for the Democrat.

(On camera): Back when you had dark hair.

ELMETS: Yes. Back when I had dark hair.

LAH (voice-over): A once unthinkable move for a man who worked for President Ronald Reagan through two terms, as a White House spokesman and then the Department of Energy. A Republican operative through four presidential campaigns, a decades-long consultant to California's Republican Party.

ELMETS: I think Ronald Reagan would be astonished by what has happened. He's managed to hoodwink America into believing that he will lead this country through the fire. I think he will thrust us into the fire.

LAH (on camera): What has been the reaction among all of your Republican friends?

ELMETS: They think I've lost my mind. LAH (voice-over): But he's not alone. William (INAUDIBLE), one of

the GOP's biggest money contributors, tells CNN, "If it is Trump versus Clinton and there's no viable third party candidate, I will be voting for Hillary Clinton."