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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Police Focusing On Child's Family Instead Of Zoo In Recent Tragedy; Animal Rights Group Calling For Zoo Probe; Trump Fundraiser Donations Sent To 41 Vets' Groups; Airport Guard Is Accused War Criminal. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired June 01, 2016 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00] JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ... that the parents are the only part of this investigation. The zoo is actually under the purview of the USDA and the federal government and the USDA did have an inspection here at the zoo back in April which the zoo did pass. Ashleigh?

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Jessica, thank you. If you can hold those thoughts for a moment, I want to bring in Ian Redmond. Ian, one of the issues that has come up and it's not getting prep as much media attention, is all of the sound and the noise coming from the spectators who were 10 feet above the scene playing out. A lot of screaming. A lot of angst and fear among all of those adults and at one point, it seemed like that massive gorilla was acutely aware of what was happening above him and I know you have some thoughts on the presence, on the actual physical architecture of having people loom over an enclosure. What are those thoughts?

IAN REDMOND, CHAIRMAN, HE GORILLA ORGANIZATION: Simply that when gorillas feel threatened in the wild, they will try and get uphill, above the threat. So they're in a dominant position and looking down on it. So the ability to enclosure where humans are looming over the top of gorillas so that they are in the -- the humans are in the dominant position, it's going to be a constant low-level stress of that gorilla and there's very little privacy (ph) in that enclosure from where I can see. So he's on permanent view with the people above him, and people are start screaming and shouting and yelling, yes, of course, that's going to cause a lot of stress in the gorilla.

BANFIELD: So there are competing thoughts of those who are experts in your field watching this video as to what the behaviors meant of this gorilla at these critical moments. There is one former zoo keeper who cared for gorillas that said these males do elaborate displace when they're agitated, flanning (ph) and dragging things about, dragging large branches and barrels, heavyweighted balls around to make as much noise as possible but not an effort to hurt anyone. Although we know that that could certainly hurt a child where it wouldn't hurt a branch and the former head of zoo Atlanta, that person wasn't sure whether this was an aggressive display towards the crowd or whether it was a playful interaction. Did you have insight in the video that you saw of what the gorilla was doing with the child?

REDMOND: It's difficult from a shaky video that keeps, you know, the gorilla coming in and out of view, but it looked like a stressed gorilla display. His arms and leg straight and the other observers are quite right that gorillas with drag anything to hand and to show their strength and assert their dominance.

So this gorilla was suddenly presented with a small human in his enclosure which is never happened before. Lots of shouting and screaming and I think he would be both fascinated by the arrival of a small human and at the same time, wanting to assert his dominance and dragging the child in one way of doing that.

And when you are dragged by a gorilla, as I have been on a number of occasions in a forest, you're being dragged to (inaudible) or it doesn't hurt. In the most, it probably didn't hurt (inaudible), it might be frightened for the child but had he done that over the rocky enclosure, which does have no soft substrate, that clearly would be dangerous for the boy but having grabbed him, he don't seem to examine him and be interested in and concern for this small child. Especially when the child cried.

BANFIELD: Yeah, I'd love to show people. When you just said that you've been dragged before, I want to show some people in the video, in the pictures that you have shown us about your remarkable interactions in the wild with gorillas. Literally mere inches away from these gorillas and there is no barrier between the two of you. So you know of what you speak. There is still this controversy about the tranquilizing possibility. Some saying it could have worked. Others saying it might have taken too long but also that the gorilla may have actually fallen and drowned in the moat or worse, pinned the child and drowned the child. Is that a legitimate thought to how the zoo keepers might be thinking before they shot?

REDMOND: It is. And I express my agreement with the zoo director who felt that wasn't the right course of action. A tranquilizer darting in the bottom is a painful and startling experience. And when a gorilla is standing over a small child, you don't want to (inaudible).

So I don't know what happened after the end of the 2.5 minute video, and between then and the end of the event which we're told took about ten minutes, I hope that people who knew Harambe and who Harambe trusted were trying to calm the situation by talking to him, offering him treats by trying to negotiate, handover of the child and return for something he might find more interesting, but we have no information as to what was happening in the 7.5 minutes of the 10 minute event.

[12:35:04] BANFIELD: Right. And all we know is they tried the treats, the female gorillas responded and that Harambe did not. But I so appreciate your insight, Ian. Thank you so much as we continue to navigate.

REDMOND: Well, I'm glad that the little lad's all right.

BANFIELD: I know.

REDMOND: Judging the parents are being a bit hasty because any -- their parent knows their heart is to keep hold of kids all the time. BANFIELD: Amen to that. Again, I live in that glass house. My children get away from me on a regular basis just a few weeks ago, in fact. Thank you, Ian, do appreciate it.

REDMOND: You're welcome.

BANFIELD: Coming up next, while Donald Trump's critics question the timing and the motivation behind the money he doled out to veterans groups in the millions, the fact remains that dozens of (inaudible) huge checks. It's important to remember that.

Coming up, I'm going to talk to one of those recipients. Lee Woodruff, wife of Bob Woodruff and she is the cofounder of the Woodruff Foundation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:40:13] BANFIELD: Dozens of veterans groups are getting some brand new funding courtesy of the Donald Trump Foundation and one of the organizations receiving part of that $5.6 million that was raised by the presumptive GOP nominee is the Bob Woodruff Foundation. The organization was started by and named after the ABC News journalist who is injured by a roadside bomb while covering the war in Iraq a decade ago. It was a tough road to recovery but Bob's result has been amazing.

And now alongside his wife, Lee, who co-founded the organization with him, the two dedicate the efforts to helping veterans and their families and I am thrilled that Lee can be with us today. It's great to see you.

LEE WOODRUFF, CO-FOUNDER, THE BOB WOODRUFF FOUNDATION: It's great to see you too.

BANFIELD: Thanks for joining us.

WOODRUFF: Yeah.

BANFIELD: So big surprise, as you said, you had no idea this was coming. You hear about it. Did you ever get the calls about the vetting process that we hear was why it took so long to get this process going?

WOODRUFF: To my knowledge, we didn't get any calls. So they have must done their vetting with third party sources or you can see all of our (inaudible) and tax information online.

BANFIELD: But, I mean, nobody would bite the hand that feeds them. This is a remarkable amount of money you got.

WOODRUFF: It is. It takes a lot of work to raise $75,000. So we're thrilled that -- I mean to have a wind fall like that come in and be able to put it to good use, we're excited. Yeah.

BANFIELD: Some people say that, how is it feel to be a political pawn and other veterans were protesting outside of Trump Tower, others were in the background saying, this is phenomenal, Donald Trump himself saying I've never been so criticized for doing so much good and some of the press saying we have to criticize you to get that good. I can only assume when you're -- in a situation you don't want to be political about this.

WOODRUFF: I don't see it as a political issue. I'd see -- he raised money. People donated to give to vets. And he sent us a check which we'll be able to use in a million different ways. And if he wants to add a few more zeroes and send more, we'll take it. We'll be here.

What I love about the pawn part is that -- that is what America is all about and the fact that someone has the right to that free speech is the very reason our veterans are raising their hands going into areas of conflict to uphold those democratic principles and so how great. You know what somebody has wants to give us a check, if no restrictions, which there were not, we'll take it.

BANFIELD: So you and Bob have worked tirelessly for the last decade. I can't believe it's been a decade.

WOODRUFF: I know.

BANFIELD: And just in the last couple of months, Bob put out an open letter to all candidates on all sides of the aisle, but got a response from one and give me just a -- clarify what the open letter was requesting and what the response was.

WOODRUFF: There was a wonderful report passing the baton from the (inaudible) and it really outlined. He help to fund that with veterans on Wall Street and an outlined what the challenges were going to be for the next commander in chief. So looking at the entire landscape of 2.2 million veterans, I think I got that wrong and figuring out long-term issues. So people are live longer, we've got health care issues. The V.A., obviously, is overloaded and backlog, how we deal with mental health.

So he asked the candidate to consider, I think five different issues that they're going to be inheriting from this last administration. And we wanted to know, you know, what are you going to do about it essentially?

(CROSSTALK)

WOODRUFF: Think about it. Hillary Clinton was the only person who responded. And it was -- it's really almost sort of the best wisdom of the field. So it's a nice encapsulation of what our next president is going to have to deal with.

BANFIELD: And Bob is doing well?

WOODRUFF: He's great. He's a walking miracle. A walking miracle.

BANFIELD: And he's a great guy. By the way. Yeah, I met him in Afghanistan.

WOODRUFF: I was going to say ... BANFIELD: Yeah.

WOODRUFF: ... I feel like weaker up together a little bit.

BANFIELD: We kind of grew up together.

WOODRUFF: Yeah.

BANFIELD: I got to say.

WOODRUFF: I know.

BANFIELD: Thanks to see you. I'm glad you go the money and I'm glad Bob is doing well. Thank you for coming.

WOODRUFF: Thank you so much.

BANFIELD: Thanks. Appreciate it. Coming up next, how do you hold a job as a security guard at one of the D.C. area airport when you are simultaneously accused of war crimes? War crimes. This man is a former Somali military commander accused of torture and mass executions. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:48:03] BANFIELD: One of the most talked about issues this election campaign is immigration's role in national security. And how do we know who exactly is coming into this country and being welcomed? And that's what makes this next story so disturbing. An alleged war criminal accused of torture and murder is living in the United States. And he is working as a security guard at one of the nation's busiest airports. Here's CNN's investigative correspondent, Kyra Phillips.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Bones are all that remains of ethnic clan members slaughtered in a vicious civil war in the 1980s. Evidence of the brutality carried out by the government regime in Somalia. Now CNN has learned a former military commander accused of some of the worst atrocities is living in the United States and working near our nation's capital.

His name is Yusuf Abdi Ali, also known as Colonel Tukeh. He and soldiers under his command are accused of terrorized the Isaaq people, torturing them, burning their villages, and carrying out mass executions.

In 1992, Somali locals told a Canadian documentary team what they experienced under Colonel Tukey. A reign of terror.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (TRANSLATOR): Two men were caught tied to a tree. Oil was poured on them. And they were (inaudible) eyes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (TRANSLATOR): He caught my brother. He tied him to a military vehicle and dragged behind. That's how he died.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you see Tukeh do that with your own eyes?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (TRANSLATOR): Yes and many people around who saw it.

KATHY ROBERTS, LEGAL DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR JUSTICE & ACCOUNTABILITY: He oversaw some of the most incredible violence that you can imagine.

[12:50:01] PHILLIPS: Kathy Roberts is an attorney for the Center for Justice & Accountability. A non-profit dedicated to bringing war criminals to juice. She's now representing an alleged torture victim in a lawsuit against Ali in civil court.

ROBERTS: He tortured people personally. He oversaw torture.

PHILLIPS: But now Yusuf Abdi Ali lives in the United States and we found him working at one of the nation's largest airports. He is a security guard at Dallas International. Our camera captured him guarding a security exit. He even started a conversation with our producer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your name?

YUSUF ABDI ALI, SECURITY GUARD: Ali. Ali.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ali?

ABDI ALI: Yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh Ali. OK. The Yusuf Ali?

ALI: Yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where you originally from?

ALI: Somalia.

PHILLIPS: A couple weeks later, we approached him as he left his apartment. Mr. Ali, I'm Kyra Phillips with CNN. I just want to ask you a couple of questions about your time in Somalia. As commander of the fifth brigade?

ALI: No comment right now, but go to my lawyer then I will talk to you.

PHILLIPS: It's all baseless and all false?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No comment.

ALI: No comment. No comment.

PHILLIPS: What about violating immigration law, Mr. Ali? And lying about your pass, sir? Did you murder any innocent people in Somalia, sir? If it's none if it's true, then tell me that none of this is true.

ALI: We will talk with my lawyer. I tell you. I tell you. PHILLLIPS: While Mr. Ali said he would talk to us, his attorney said no, insisting his client is innocent.

JOSEPH PETER DRENNAN, ATTORNEY FOR YUSUF ABDI ALI: How dare anyone call him a war criminal? Those are just allegations. If he is indeed a war criminal, take him to the Hague or if he's a war criminal, take it up with the immigration authorities. My client deserves to live in the United States just as any other legal permanent resident deserves to live in the United States.

PHILLIPS: But right now, there is no criminal court in the world where Ali can be tried for war crimes because the international war crimes court didn't even exist during Somalia's civil war. However, the U.S. Government says it's been aware of Ali for years. Based upon allegations that he had been involved in human rights violations, but wouldn't answer any of CNN's detailed questions.

I think it's really hard for the average viewer to listen to this and the fact that he is working in an airport that we all fly through on a regular basis.

ROBERTS: It's deeply disturbing in part because that is a position of trust. You abuse that authority terribly in Somalia, in my opinion, he should be in jail.

PHILLIPS: Ali ended up in the U.S. after being deported from Canada because of his past. He got a U.S. visa through his wife, a Somali woman who became a U.S. citizen. Adding to the outrage, his wife was convicted of immigration fraud for lying. She claimed she was a refugee from the same Somali clan Ali is accused of torturing.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

PHILLIPS: And Ashleigh, as of this morning, Ali is been taken off the job because of the CNN investigation. Security guards now at are hired by a private contractor Master Security. They said they didn't know about the accusations against Ali until CNN contacted them and they told us, quote, "Due to the serious nature of the allegations, we have placed Mr. Ali on administrative leave."

BANFIELD: So that's great. But how did he get this job from square one? I thought the security guards at airports have to undergo background checks.

PHILLIPS: Great question. Absolutely they do and we asked that question, Ashleigh. The Washington airport's authority which is in charge of the area's three airports said that all security guards are "Subject to full federally mandated vetting including a criminal background check by the FBI and a security threat assessment by the TSA." They told us, "We have verified that all of these processes were followed and approved in this instance."

But, you know, here's a simple thing to point out. If you do a Google search, OK, Yusuf Abdi Ali's name pulls up and all the accusations are there against him in writing and ISIS aware of him, so we're still not sure how that was missed or why he was even hired. BANFIELD: Very odd that a background check wasn't more exhaustive

than the Google. Kyra Phillips, thank you for that. Appreciate it. We'll continue to follow with you.

In just a few minutes, Bernie Sanders is expected to speak live at a stop during a busy campaign day in California just days ahead of the primary there.

[12:55:09] And Hillary Clinton also expected to speak in the next hour. You're going to get both of those events live coming at you, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 10:00 a.m. in Spreckels, California, 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 8:00 p.m. in Damascus, Syria. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Up first, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton in a sprint to the finish line. Sanders is out on the campaign trail in California this hour ahead of Tuesday's primaries. He's holding a news conference in Spreckels part of all an place to try to defeat Hillary Clinton in California. Clinton makes the campaign stop in Newark, New Jersey later this hour. Tuesday, New Jersey primary could potentially favoring (ph) enough delegates to clinch the nomination.