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STATE OF THE UNION
Interview With Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders; Interview With Presidential Candidate Donald Trump; Interview With Presidential Candidate Hillary Clinton; Press Conferences In This Week's "State of the Cartoonion". Aired 9-10p ET
Aired June 5, 2016 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Golden State warriors. It's crunch time here in California.
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: California strong.
TAPPER (voice-over): With the final major contest just days away, the candidates are all here, and they are all talking to us: Trump.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary Clinton is a stiff.
CLINTON: On Tuesday, I will have decisively won the popular vote.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (VT-I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If the turnout is very, very large, I think we have a chance to win big.
TAPPER: As violent protests continue and racial tensions rise.
TRUMP: He's a Mexican.
TAPPER: Can California change the course of this election?
TAPPER: It's getting hot out here.
A special STATE OF THE UNION on the ground in California starts now.
Hello. I'm Jake Tapper in beautiful, sunny Los Angeles, where the state of our union is golden.
This unbelievable primary season is reaching a critical moment, as the nation's most populist state votes on Tuesday, just two days. All of the candidates have come here to California dreaming of winning the White House. And, frankly, they seem freshly emboldened on their paths to getting there, Senator Bernie Sanders refusing to back down from Hillary Clinton, even as she seems poised to win the majority of pledged delegates on Tuesday.
But could a win here in California give Sanders enough momentum to soldier on to the convention?
We will talk to both of them in a moment, but, first, Donald Trump.
His racially charged statements this week have set off a firestorm, leaving everyone from Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders to Paul Ryan to rebuke them.
But, as the presumptive Republican presidential nominee made clear when he invited us into his mansion in Beverly Hills, he is not willing to back down for anyone.
TAPPER: This is the first time I have seen you in person since the Miami debate.
TRUMP: Thank you.
TAPPER: You're the nominee.
TRUMP: I told you.
TAPPER: You did. You did.
I want to get your reaction to Speaker Paul Ryan endorsing you. It took him a few weeks. It's interesting. When he told me in early May that he was not ready to endorse you yet, it seemed like he was suggesting he wanted you to change your behavior in some way before he endorsed you.
But I can't see any evidence that you've changed in any way, so, ultimately, did he blink? Why did he...
TRUMP: No, he didn't blink.
Look, he's a good man. He wants what's best for the party. And, you know, when you get right down to it, no matter how you cut it, it's very easy to figure. In the history of the primaries, the Republican primaries, I got more votes by millions.
We have still five states to go. We have California. We have New Jersey. We have Montana. We have New Mexico. We have some big states. And I'm going to win all those states by a lot.
And I will tell you what. In the history of the Republican primaries, I have gotten millions of votes more than Ronald Reagan, who we all love, and Dwight D. Eisenhower. Again, you go back, and I think he sees that, and I think a lot of other people -- you know...
TAPPER: So, the winning is more important than whatever concerns he might have about you as a candidate?
TRUMP: It's a party.
The people voted. And that's millions of votes, when we have 17 people, don't forget. So this isn't like, you know, we had two people.
Like Hillary Clinton, sometimes says, well, I got a little more votes than Donald Trump. She had one person. I had 17 people. So, I mean, I blew out everybody. And I think they see that, and I think that's very important, Jake.
TAPPER: Ultimately, that's the most important thing.
TRUMP: You know the other thing that's really nice about that story? The Republican Party has millions of more people, like, millions of more people that voted in the primaries. I think it was because of me. I hope it was because of me.
But millions of people voted in the primaries, some of whom never voted before.
TAPPER: So, Hillary Clinton -- around the same time that Paul Ryan was making his announcement, Hillary Clinton was giving a speech. She had some very tough things to say about you.
One of the things she said...
TRUMP: She wasn't giving. She was reading a speech that was written by other people, OK, but go ahead.
TRUMP: Sound bites.
TAPPER: One of the things -- one of the things she said was: "This is not someone who should have the nuclear codes. It's not hard to imagine Donald Trump leading us into war because someone got under his very thin skin."
What's your response to that?
TRUMP: Well, first of all, I don't have thin skin. I have very strong, very thick skin.
And when somebody's right about me, I always -- if you do a report, and it's not necessarily positive, but you're right, I never complain. I do complain when it's a lie or when it's wrong.
But I have a strong temperament, and it's a very good temperament, and it's a very in-control temperament, or I wouldn't have built this unbelievable company, I wouldn't have built all of the things that I have been able to do in life, I mean, number one bestsellers, one of the bestselling books of all time, tremendous television success. TAPPER: But I don't think anyone...
TRUMP: I have been successful.
Well, wait a minute, Jake. I have been successful in every business I have been in, if you think, real estate, one of the most successful, television, "The Apprentice," which is -- forget it. I mean, NBC came to me. They wanted to renew so badly, you have no idea.
TAPPER: But what does that have to do with temperament? You're very successful, there's no question.
TRUMP: Oh, it has a lot to do -- you can't -- oh, you can't have that success without good temperament.
And I will say this. I was thinking about the word temperament, and we need a strong temperament in this country. We have been led by weak people, weak, ineffective people.
Countries have taken advantage of us, whether it's militarily or otherwise. We have been taken advantage of by everybody. We have people with weak temperaments. I have a very strong temperament, but I have a temperament that's totally under control.
And, you know -- she mentions that I will bring us into war. She's the one that wanted to go into Iraq. She raised her hand. She didn't know what the hell she was doing. She raised her hand.
I said, I don't want to go into Iraq. Iraq is going to destabilize the Middle East, and I was 100 percent right.
TAPPER: Can I just say one point on that? I have looked so long and hard for any evidence of you...
TRUMP: I will give it to you. 2004, they had newspaper articles.
TAPPER: But -- but -- right, but the war started in 2003.
TRUMP: It did.
And -- but you know what? You look at -- I did an interview with Howard. And that interview was the first time I was ever asked the question. Don't forget, I was an entrepreneur. I'm a real estate person, asked me the question.
TAPPER: But didn't you -- didn't you say to Howard that you thought it was a good idea?
TRUMP: No, I -- this was before the war started, long before the war started.
TAPPER: Right. TRUMP: And it was a very like, well, I don't know. First, nobody
ever asked me the question.
You know, when you're doing what I did, nobody was talking about a lot of the questions that you ask me today. And I was -- I sort of said, like, well, I don't know, maybe -- I don't know.
By the time that started, I was totally against it. And from 2004 on, there's a lot of proof of that, because, as you know, there was articles in magazines.
TRUMP: There was a lot of articles.
TAPPER: Yes, a year after the war started.
TRUMP: No, no, but I was against it from before it started.
TAPPER: All right. But...
TRUMP: And if you go back and look at that interview -- and I will get it for you, if you want -- but that interview was substantially before the war started.
It was the first time I was ever asked the question. And even that, it wasn't like, oh, yes, we should go in. It was a very, yes, maybe, you know?
TAPPER: The only thing I would say, and then we don't have to belabor this point, is, if there is evidence of you being against the war strongly before the war actually started, I would love to see that.
TRUMP: OK, but I think there is evidence.
TAPPER: I just haven't seen that.
TRUMP: I think there is evidence.
TRUMP: OK. I hadn't been asked that question before. Nobody said that to me before.
I think there is evidence. I will see if I can get it.
TRUMP: But I will say, from the beginning of 2004, I mean, I have had articles, and there are magazines.
TAPPER: 2004, no question.
TRUMP: OK? TAPPER: No question.
TRUMP: So, I was against the war a long time ago, and it destabilized the Middle East. And that's exactly what I said was going to happen.
And I also said Iran will take over Iraq, because we ruined the balance of those two militarily. We destroyed -- we knocked out one of the two balancing prongs. And Iran is taking -- as sure as you're sitting there, Iran is taking over Iraq.
They're taking over the oil. They're taking over everything.
TAPPER: There's no question about a lot of Shia influence in Iraq.
But let's move on to something, a criticism you made of Secretary Clinton about her speech. At a rally in Sacramento, you accused her of lying about your foreign policy as it relates to expressing support for Japan being able to get nuclear weapons.
TRUMP: A hundred percent.
TAPPER: Well, let me just read from you.
TRUMP: A hundred percent.
TAPPER: And you explain to me.
This is from an April 3 interview with Chris Wallace of Fox News. You said: "North Korea has nukes, Japan has a problem with that. I mean, they have a big problem with that. Maybe they would in fact be better off if they defend themselves from North Korea."
And Chris Wallace says, "With nukes?"
And you say, "Including with nukes, yes, including with nukes."
TRUMP: Yes, but what I -- here's what you don't have.
Every time I have ever said anything about Japan defending themselves -- and, again, they're going to have to defend themselves with whatever they are going to have -- we right now defend Japan. Japan pays us a small fraction of the cost, a very small fraction. I want them to pay us at least the cost, because we don't have...
TAPPER: It's about 50 percent.
TRUMP: It's actually less than 50 percent. But a general got on and said 50 percent recently. But, even if it was 50 percent, why aren't they paying us 100 percent?
TAPPER: You want it to be 100 percent? TRUMP: Of course they should pay 100 percent. You're talking about -- you're talking about billions and billions of dollars, and you're talking about worse than that.
You're talking about World War III. Somebody attacks Japan, and we end up in World War III?
TRUMP: And, by the way -- by the way, no, listen to this. If we get attacked, Japan doesn't have to defend us, OK? That's pretty bad.
Whenever I talk about Japan and defense and NATO and defense and Saudi Arabia and, by the way, Germany -- a lot of people don't even -- until I got involved in this, most people didn't even know we were defending Japan and Germany. They knew about Saudi Arabia. I mean, Saudi Arabia's got more money than anybody. Why aren't they paying us, OK?
TAPPER: We have bases. We have military bases...
TRUMP: Yes. And, you know, we pay rent on those bases. We pay rent.
And do you know, we pay rent in Saudi Arabia? We're defending them, and we're paying rent.
TAPPER: But, anyway, my only point is...
TRUMP: No, no, what I'm saying, though, Jake, is, how can this be possible? Why aren't they paying at least the cost?
And don't forget, that cost, then we have tremendous backup and other things. I mean, we're providing a tremendous service. Our country is stone-cold broke. We owe $19 trillion. It's going to be $21 trillion very soon.
We have Obamacare, which is a total disaster. You saw yesterday in Texas 60 percent increase with Blue Cross/Blue Shield through Obamacare, 60 percent increase. It was -- I mean, it should be a scandal, but nobody's even reporting it. It's hardly being reported.
So, whenever I talk about Japan or Germany or Saudi Arabia, I always say, no, no, if they don't make us whole, they may have to defend themselves.
TAPPER: And that's -- that's where the nukes would come in, if they don't make -- if they don't pay for...
TRUMP: That's up to them. It's not up to me. It's up to them.
TAPPER: OK. TRUMP: But you know what I think is going to happen?
You have to be prepared to walk from a deal. You can't go in there saying -- like Hillary said, we will never let our partners down. We will never, never, never. OK, that's wonderful, except, you know what? If I'm Japan, I say good.
We'll keep paying the 50 percent. It's actually less than that. We might even keep paying -- you know, just keep paying what we're paying, which is a fraction of the cost.
You have to be prepared to walk. If you aren't prepared to walk, you're never going to be able to able to -- these are very smart people we're dealing with, OK? They've been ripping us off for a long time. And I love Japan. I have many friends in Japan.
TAPPER: These are U.S. allies, I mean, major U.S. allies.
TRUMP: Excuse me.
TRUMP: It's got to work two ways.
TRUMP: They never talk about the economics. They never talk about the cost -- big factor, big factor.
They always say, Donald Trump -- so, she says, Donald Trump -- I could take that speech, and almost all of the lines, but certainly more than half, it was just written by professional people. And then she read it. I mean, you tell me. That's presidential, OK?
But she read it. So much falsity in there, I mean, so many things wrong. But I could take that speech -- and I actually will be doing it. I think I'm going to re -- I think I'm going to go to give a little retort to her speech.
TRUMP: Maybe I will do it on Monday before the election.
And most of the things, many of the things that she said were absolutely wrong.
TAPPER: I want to get your response to some violence we've seen outside events of yours, violence committed by people opposed to you.
TRUMP: By thugs.
TAPPER: What is your message?
TRUMP: By thugs.
TAPPER: What is your message? TRUMP: The people that burn our American flag, they're thugs.
TAPPER: What is your message to these people committing these acts of violence?
TRUMP: I would be very strong if I were the police. I think Sheriff Joe Arpaio would not have let a thing like that happen, I will tell you, because we had a potential of some violence. He walked in there, and they just split up like you have never seen.
TAPPER: So, you think the police forces have -- have failed?
TRUMP: No. No, I think -- well, they didn't have too many.
But I will say there's -- no, no, I'm the biggest fan. They have to be able to do their job.
TAPPER: No, no, but you don't think they were aggressive enough?
TRUMP: No, I think they have to be able to do their job.
I think the police forces are being treated very unfairly in this country. They're afraid to do anything, because they don't want to lose their jobs. They don't want to lose their pensions. They don't want to be criticized.
And people -- things are happening. Let me give you an example. We had a tremendous crowd, as you know, last night. It was a lovefest inside, no problem whatsoever. It was a lovefest. It went on for an hour. I spoke for an hour. The people were cheering and standing ovations.
I mean, it was an amazing thing.
TRUMP: Outside, there were probably 150. Some of those people are -- they go to every rally. OK, they're -- in my opinion, they're paid agitators. But you can figure that out better than anybody.
When my people walked out, they're peaceful people. Eggs were thrown in a woman's face.
TAPPER: It's not acceptable. I don't...
TRUMP: My people didn't start it. Eggs were thrown in somebody's face.
You know, it was very interesting. Last week, I was in San Diego. I had a massive crowd, and many of them were Marines and they were Navy SEALs. They were tough, because San Diego is very much of a military area.
And these people walked out. And they saw what was happening, and, man, was that problem over with pretty fast.
TAPPER: Let me ask you about comments you made recently.
TRUMP: And it's very important, though, that I say the people that are causing that problem, they're not my people. They're people that are outside. They're thugs and they're agitators. They're bad people.
I think they're sent by the Democrats.
TAPPER: Do you have evidence of that?
TRUMP: Well, they have the Bernie signs. They got a lot of Bernie signs.
TAPPER: So they're Bernie supporters?
TRUMP: Well, they have got the Bernie signs. And they're the Bernie signs, the same people -- the same signs that they use at their rallies.
TAPPER: I want to ask you about comments you made about the judge in the Trump University case.
TRUMP: Sure. Sure.
TAPPER: You said that you thought it was a conflict of interest that he was the judge because he's of Mexican heritage, even though he's from Indiana.
TRUMP: OK. Yes. Yes.
TAPPER: Hillary Clinton said that that is a racist attack on a federal judge.
TRUMP: Oh, she's so wonderful. You know, I mean, here's a woman that should be put in jail for what she did with her e-mails, and she's commenting on this.
TAPPER: But what about the substance of the...
TRUMP: Let me just tell you. Let me just tell you. It's very simple.
I have a case where I have thousands of people have taken this course, and thousands and thousands of people have said great reviews, great reviews. Fortunately, just about everybody that took the courses have signed a review, an evaluation, they call it. And it's gotten tremendous marks, thousands.
I don't mean like two people. I mean thousands of people.
I have a situation where the woman that brought the case brought the case. She's the plaintiff. She was deposed. She was found to be a disaster for them as a witness, because she gave an evaluation that was like the best evaluation you've ever heard. Wait just one second.
TRUMP: And she did a tape like front from your camera saying that this school was fantastic, it was fantastic.
They went to the judge and they said: Your Honor, we don't want her anymore to be our plaintiff.
So, we said, let's dismiss the case. That's OK. Let's dismiss the case.
And he said: No, I won't dismiss the case, and she doesn't have to be the plaintiff. Let me tell you.
TAPPER: But what does that have to do with his heritage?
TRUMP: I will tell you what it has to do.
I have had ruling after ruling after ruling that's been bad rulings, OK?
I have been treated very unfairly. Beforehand, we had another judge. If that judge was still there, this case would have been over two years ago.
Let me just tell you, I have had horrible rulings. I have been treated very unfairly by this judge. Now, this judge is of Mexican heritage. I'm building a wall, OK? I'm building a wall. I'm going to do very well with the Hispanics, the Mexicans.
TAPPER: So, no Mexican judge could ever be involved in a case that involves you?
TRUMP: Well, no, he is a member of a society where -- very pro- Mexico. And that's fine. It's all fine.
TAPPER: Except that you're calling into question his heritage.
TRUMP: I think he should recuse himself.
TAPPER: Because he's Latino.
TRUMP: Then you also say, does he know the lawyer on the other side? I mean, does he know the lawyer? And a lot of people...
TAPPER: But I am not talking about that. I'm talking about...
TRUMP: No, that's another -- that's another problem.
TAPPER: But you're invoking his race when talking about...
TRUMP: Here's what...
TAPPER: ... whether or not he can do his job.
TRUMP: Jake, I'm building a wall, OK? I'm building a wall. I am trying to keep business out of Mexico. Mexico's fine. There's nothing...
TAPPER: But he's American. He's an American.
TRUMP: He's of Mexican heritage. And he's very proud of it, as I am of where I come from, my parents.
TAPPER: But he's an American. You keep talking about it's a conflict of interests because of Mexico.
TRUMP: Jake, Jake, Jake, are you ready? I have a case that should have been dismissed already.
I have thousands of people saying, Trump University's fantastic, OK? I have a case that should have been dismissed. I have a judge that never, ever give a -- now we lose the plaintiff. He lets the plaintiff of the case out. So why isn't he canceling the case? So, we thought we won the case.
TAPPER: So, you disagree with his rulings.
TRUMP: No, no, no.
TAPPER: I totally understand that. But you're...
TRUMP: Not me. I have had lawyers come up to me, say, you are being treated so unfairly, it's unbelievable.
TRUMP: You know that plaintiffs in the case have all said wonderful things about the school, and they're suing? You know why they're suing? Because they want to get their money back.
TAPPER: I don't really want to litigate the case of Trump University.
TRUMP: You have to because, because if he was giving me fair rulings, I wouldn't say that.
TAPPER: The question is...
TRUMP: Jake, if he were giving me fair rulings, I wouldn't be talking to you this way. He's given me horrible rulings.
TAPPER: But I don't care if you criticize him. That's fine. You can criticize every decision.
What I'm saying is, if you invoke his race as a reason why he can't do his job...
TRUMP: I think that's why he's doing it.
TRUMP: I think that's why he's doing it.
TAPPER: When Hillary Clinton says it's a racist attack...
TRUMP: Hillary Clinton is a stiff. If Hillary Clinton becomes president...
TAPPER: But Paul Ryan today -- Paul Ryan today said he didn't care for the way that you were attacking this judge.
TRUMP: Look, I'm just telling you, Paul Ryan doesn't know the case. This is...
TAPPER: Isn't it the...
TRUMP: I should have won this case on summary judgment.
This is not a case -- this is a case I should have won on summary judgment.
Do you know the law firm paid Hillary Clinton hundreds of thousands of dollars to make speeches? Do you know the law firm has...
TAPPER: I do. And we've reported it.
TRUMP: Oh, you do? Oh.
TAPPER: We've reported it on my show, in fact.
TRUMP: OK, good. Well, I'm glad. You're the only one.
TAPPER: The only ones...
TRUMP: The law firm -- wait a minute. The law firm paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to Hillary Clinton for speeches.
TAPPER: Before either of you were president -- were running for president.
TRUMP: She wasn't worth it. Everybody fell asleep during the speech, OK?
TAPPER: Before either of you were running for president, they did.
But here's the -- just the fundamental question.
TRUMP: Do you know that they have contributed tremendous amounts of money to her campaign?
TRUMP: Do you know that they contributed a lot of money to Eric Schneiderman, the New York attorney general?
TAPPER: Here's my question.
TRUMP: No, no. Do you know that?
TAPPER: I did not know that.
TRUMP: Do you know that these people went to every attorney general, practically, in the country that they could, and do you know this case was turned down by almost every attorney general, from Texas to Florida to many of these states?
TAPPER: Is it not -- when Hillary Clinton says, this is a racist attack -- and you reject that -- if you are saying he can't do his job because of his race, is that not the definition of racism?
TRUMP: No, I don't think so at all.
TRUMP: No. He's proud of his heritage. I -- I respect him for that.
TAPPER: But you're saying he can't do his job because of that.
TRUMP: Look, he's proud of his heritage. OK? I'm building a wall. Now, I think I'm going to do very well with Hispanics.
TAPPER: He's a legal citizen.
TRUMP: You know why I'm going to do well with Hispanics?
Because I'm going to bring back jobs, and they're going to get jobs right now. They're going to get jobs. I think I'm going to do very well with Hispanics. But we're building a wall. He's a Mexican. We're building a wall between here and Mexico.
The answer is, he is giving us very unfair rulings, rulings that people can't even believe. This case should have ended years ago on summary judgment. The best lawyers -- I have spoken to so many lawyers. They said, this is not a case. This is a case that should have ended.
This judge is giving us unfair rulings. Now I say why. Well, I want to -- I'm building a wall, OK? And it's a wall between Mexico, not another country, and...
TAPPER: But he's not -- he's not from Mexico. He's from Indiana.
TRUMP: In my opinion -- he is -- his Mexican -- Mexican heritage. And he's very proud of it.
TAPPER: But you're not from Scotland because you have Scottish heritage.
TRUMP: Excuse me. Hey, you know what? I'm not building a wall between Scotland and the United States.
TAPPER: I have two more questions. I'm being told we're running out of time.
I interviewed Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, who has endorsed you. And he just wrote a book, and in the book, he talks about how he did not vote for Barry Goldwater in 1964 because Barry Goldwater voted against the Civil Rights Act. And he thought that that destroyed years and years of great work the Republican Party had done for civil rights, and it alienated blacks from the Republican Party for generations.
He is worried that you might do the same thing for Latinos.
TRUMP: I don't think so. I don't think so.
Look, he's worried about a lot of things, I guess. But I don't think so. I think I'm going to do very well with Latinos or Hispanics. You know, I employee thousands of Latinos. I employ, over the years, thousands of Mexicans. They're great. They're great.
I deal with them. I sell them apartments. I deal -- you know, I deal with them. And, by the way, I deal with China. I have tremendous relations, business relationships with China, including having the largest bank in the world of a tenant in one of my buildings in Manhattan.
TRUMP: And selling lots of condos.
I get along with all these countries, by the way. And I don't blame Mexico, and I don't blame the leadership of Mexico. I don't blame the leadership of China.
I blame the leadership of the United States, because they're doing stupid things. They're doing -- they're -- I don't know, are they stupid people? I guess the answer is yes, or they have bad intentions, one or the other.
But you look at what's happening to our country, and, you know, you congratulate me before on winning.
TRUMP: And I told you I was going to win.
And one of the primary reasons I felt so confident was that the people of this country are smart. And when they see the stupidity going on with the Iran deal and these trade deals -- trade deals that are just sucking the blood out of our country -- they're sucking the jobs and the money out of our country -- I felt I would win. And I turned out to be right.
TAPPER: Last question, a fun one for you.
If you win, or, in your construct, when you win, you're going to move into the White House, yes?
TRUMP: Yes. Yes.
TAPPER: Will you redecorate it Trump-style?
TRUMP: No, I wouldn't. I would -- I just want a place -- honestly, look, it's a very special place. It's a very special building.
A lot of people say I'm going to move into the hotel that I'm building two blocks away. No. The White House represents something so important.
TAPPER: So, no big Trump sign on top of the White House?
TRUMP: It's going to be clean. It's going to be beautiful. It's going to be well-maintained. It's going to be just like it is.
I'm going to be working. I'm not going to be decorating. I'm going to be working. We're going to make new deals with China, new deals with Japan, new deals with Mexico. We're going to make great deals for the country. We're going to make the country rich again, and we're going to make our country great again.
TAPPER: Mr. Trump, thanks so much for your time. I always appreciate you taking my questions.
TRUMP: Thank you very much. Thank you, Jake.
TAPPER: Thank you so much.
TAPPER: Coming up: She still has to fend off Bernie Sanders here in California, but Hillary Clinton is making clear that her primary target is Donald Trump. Will her attempt to take down Trump work, when so many others have failed?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CLINTON: I believe this with all my heart -- he is not qualified to be commander in chief, either by experience, preparation or temperament.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Jake Tapper in Los Angeles.
It may be sunny here in California, but the presidential race has taken a dark turn this week, with Donald Trump's charged remarks roiling many, and Hillary Clinton warning ominously of the consequences of electing Trump.
Her newly full-throated attack comes on Trump while she's still struggling to fend off that other rival of hers, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders.
Sanders is pledging to fight on for the Democratic nomination.
I asked Clinton about both men when we met up here in Los Angeles.
TAPPER: Madam Secretary, thanks so much for doing this.
CLINTON: Thank you, Jake. Good to see you.
TAPPER: Appreciate it.
So, you had some very strong comments about Donald Trump yesterday.
I asked him about specifically the one where you said that you couldn't trust him with the nuclear codes. It's not tough to imagine him bringing the country into war because somebody got under his very thin skin.
That's pretty close to a quote. And his response was, hey, she's the one that voted to go to war in Iraq.
How do you respond to that?
CLINTON: Well, I think the speech was really an attempt to present to the American people everything that he has said, what he has proposed that he would do which violates Republican and Democratic agreement about how to be strong in the world, how to present ourselves, how to protect our allies and our friends, how to take on our rivals where necessary.
And I'm happy to put my record up against his comments, his rants and his outright lies any time. TAPPER: But his specific criticism was, why would you accuse me of
going to war, when you actually brought us into a war that he criticizes as an unnecessary one?
CLINTON: Well, he supported it. We have evidence and audio of him supporting it. So, I think that's another example of him trying to rewrite history.
But I said, look, it was a mistake to vote for that. But I have a lot more experience as a senator, as secretary of state, that I am more than happy to talk about throughout this campaign, because, when people vote, they are voting for the president, who is our commander in chief.
And I have said -- and I believe this with all my heart -- he is not qualified to be commander in chief, either by experience, preparation or temperament.
TAPPER: There have been some -- there were some really ugly images on the TV screens yesterday, attacks by anti-Trump protesters against people who support Donald Trump.
Do you condemn the violence? What is your message to people who are protesting Donald Trump?
CLINTON: I condemn all violence in our political arena.
I condemned it when Donald Trump was inciting it and congratulating people who were engaging it. I condemn it by those who are taking violent protests to physical assault against Donald Trump. This has to end. He set a very bad example.
He created an environment in which it seemed to be acceptable for someone running for president to be inciting violence, to be encouraging his supporters. Now we're seeing people who are against him responding in kind.
It should all stop. It is not acceptable.
TAPPER: At the end of the day, do you think that those violent anti- Trump protesters actually might be helping him in a way by showing his opposition in such a horrendous light?
CLINTON: I don't think any of this helps anybody.
I don't think his protests that were led by his supporters beating up people who were peacefully protesting against Trump helped Trump. And I don't think that people who are protesting and using physical violence against people supporting Trump are helping anybody.
So, I want it to just end, Jake.
CLINTON: I don't want to parse it. I don't want to talk about the political implications. I want it to end. The police have a hard enough job trying to make sure that we're able to gather and talk about the issues facing our country, and Trump has lowered the bar, and now is it a surprise the people who don't like him are stepping over that low bar? I don't think it is. He needs to condemn all violence by everyone. I already have. I will continue to do so.
TAPPER: The Sanders campaign has been mounting a very strong challenge against you here in California and in fact, it's neck and neck according to public polling. Anybody could win.
Eight years ago when you were behind then Senator Obama, although you were closer than Sanders is with you, you said, if Obama is so inevitable, why is he having such a tough time closing the deal?
So let me just put it to you. You are inevitable in your view, you will be the nominee. Why is it a tough landing for you in California and elsewhere?
CLINTON: Well, let's see what happens on Tuesday. I'm very proud of the campaign we're running here. And I believe on Tuesday I will have decisively won the popular vote and I will have decisively won the pledged delegate majority.
You can't get much more than that out of a primary season. And in fact the contest between then Senator Obama and myself was much closer, by some standards I actually led a little bit in the popular vote, but I fell a little short in the pledged delegates.
So I have a decision to make. A lot of my supporters said, hey, let's keep going, you know, let's make sure that we go to the convention. I said, no.
I ran to become president because I have deep values and beliefs about what should be done in our country. I am much closer in the goals that I think we should be pursuing with Barack Obama than I am with the Republicans.
The same is true with Senator Sanders and myself. We both want to raise the minimum wage. We both want to get to universal health care coverage. We both want to make sure Wall Street never wrecks Main Street again. We share so many of the same goals.
We have different approaches, different ideas about how best to achieve those. So if you are a supporter of mine or you're a supporter of Senator Sanders and you look at this contest, which has been largely on issues although we've had our difference...
CLINTON: ... compared to the Republican side, which has been largely on insults and plans that never would be feasible.
TAPPER: It's gotten tough with you and Sanders, though. I mean, not as --
CLINTON: Well, but nothing like what we saw on the Republican side.
And so, after Tuesday, I'm going to do everything I can to reach out to try to unify the Democratic Party and I expect Senator Sanders to do the same. And we will come together and be prepared to go to the convention in a unified way to make our case to leave the convention, to go into the general election to defeat Donald Trump.
TAPPER: There's one other thing about Donald Trump I want to ask you and then I know you have to go, and that is, when you were launching your criticism, your attack against Trump University, which is right now in the middle of a civil suit for fraud, the Trump campaign started hitting back by questioning donations to the Clinton Foundation and how the money is spent. There have been questions in the media about that, and I'm not equating Trump University with the Clinton Foundation but do you think those questions undermine at all your argument against the Trump Foundation -- the Trump University?
CLINTON: Not at all. I mean really this is like an absurd comparison.
We have disclosed everything. You can see what we do. We have -- we put out reports. We could find you millions of people who feel that their lives have been improved because of the work.
Contrast that, the attorney general of New York has said that Trump U is basically a fraud. It's a fraud, where Donald Trump has preyed on people, has taken them by asking them to max out their credit cards to a point of financial despair, and walked away. So I will let the lawsuits go on. I think it's very clear, even from the testimony we've already heard about from his close associates that even people working in it call it fraudulent. And, you know, look, he has to answer to that.
TAPPER: Madam Secretary, thanks so much. Good luck in California.
CLINTON: Thank you.
TAPPER: It's a tough race you got there.
CLINTON: Well, we're doing -- we're doing well. We're going to go all the way to the finish line.
TAPPER: All right. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
CLINTON: Thank you.
TAPPER: You heard Clinton there, confident she can lock up the nomination and the win over Bernie Sanders (INAUDIBLE) but Sanders (INAUDIBLE) --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: You don't know what the (INAUDIBLE) is going to be like four weeks from now -- five weeks. But let's not forget the Democratic Convention is the end of July, that's a long time from today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Welcome back to CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION." I'm Jake Tapper in Los Angeles.
The primary here in California has been hotly anticipated for months, but few could have predicted that Donald Trump would be running unopposed, while the Democrats continue to battle until the last votes are counted.
Polls show the contest here between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders is neck and neck, and Sanders thinks a win here means the race is far from over.
TAPPER: Senator, thanks so much for doing this. I appreciate it.
SANDERS: My pleasure.
TAPPER: So we're here in the beautiful Golden State of California. The vote -- people here vote on Tuesday. What are you expect something going to happen?
SANDERS: Well, I think that if there is a large voter turnout, if working people and young people are prepared to come out to make it clear that it's too late for establishment politics and establishment economics, we're going to win. If the turnout is very, very large, I think we have a chance to win big.
TAPPER: In all likelihood, even if you do win in California, which is certainly possible, according to the latest polling, Secretary Clinton on Tuesday night will declare victory in the nomination race.
She'll say that she has enough delegates and will be the nominee.
SANDERS: Well, I think that's kind of not quite accurate and I think the Democratic National Committee has made that clear. What she would be doing is combining pledged delegates. Those are the real delegates that people vote for. With superdelegates, people who are appointed by the committee, and what the DNC has made it very clear is that the media should not lump those two together, because pledged delegates are pledged to the candidates, superdelegates may change their mind.
TAPPER: Will your strategy be different if after all the contests are over she has more pledged delegates than you do or are you taking this to the convention no matter what?
SANDERS: Look, again I don't want to speculate about who will end up having more pledged delegates. She is ahead of us right now, no question. But California is coming up. We've got 475 pledged delegates here. You don't know what the world is going to be like four weeks from now, five weeks. But let's not forget the Democratic convention is the end of July. That's a long time from today.
TAPPER: What is an area -- an important area for California voters to know that you do have some disagreements, would climate change be an area where there's a --
SANDERS: It sure would be.
I mean -- and Secretary Clinton is right. And let's be very clear Trump would be a disaster and she and I agree on that. In terms of climate change which here in California, by the way, is an issue of huge consequence, unlike Donald Trump, the people of California know the climate change is very real, that there is a drought here.
And second of all, I worry very much about the future water supply, clean water supply in this country and around the world. I think we have to ban fracking now. Secretary Clinton does not agree with that. She thinks we can -- quote -- unquote -- "regulate" -- you can't regulate fracking effectively. And also as secretary of state she pushed fracking in other countries around the world. Those are pretty fundamental disagreements.
TAPPER: I want to ask you about some of the violence we've seen by anti-Trump protesters against supporters of Trump. Some of these people who have been very violent have been seen with your signs, Bernie Sanders signs, chanting your name. Do you condemn the violence?
SANDERS: Absolutely. And let's be very clear. I mean, we have millions and millions of people who are supporting us, and I wanted to make it clear that any person who is a Bernie Sanders supporter, please, do not in any way, shape or form engage in violence. That is absolutely not what this campaign is about.
TAPPER: There was an interesting back and forth between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump that I really actually wondered what you thought about it.
She said that it's not hard to imagine Donald Trump getting the U.S. into a war because someone got under his -- quote -- "very thin skin." I asked him about that. He said hey, she's the one that voted to go to war in Iraq, not me. You've been critical of her for that vote as well. I was wondering where you came down on this.
SANDERS: Well, I think, frankly they both make a point. War and peace issues are obviously of enormous consequence. And this is a guy who (ph) -- attacking, ugly words about people. No, he does not have the temperament. Is it possible that something would get him angry and he may want to get us involved in a war? Yes, that is a possibility.
On the other hand, let's also be clear Secretary Clinton's temperament is not Donald Trump's, that's for sure, but she and I back in 2008, I was in the House, she was in the Senate, we all heard the evidence, the so-called evidence coming from Bush and Cheney about the need to go to war in Iraq. I studied that, I really did. I not only voted against the war in Iraq, I led the opposition to that war. She studied the same information -- she supported that war.
TAPPER: Do you think she's too quick on the draw, too eager to use military force?
SANDERS: I worry about that, yes, I do. I mean, I think that the -- her support for the war in Iraq was not just an aberration. I think that her willingness to kind of push President Obama to overthrow Gaddafi and lead to the kind of instability that we're seeing now in Libya, not in consistent with her other views on Syria, where she wants a no fly zone which I think had sucked us into never-ending conflict in that area.
TAPPER: Gaddafi's forces were about to, it looked like commit mass murder against the rebels and citizens, and the move by Clinton, Obama, et cetera, and the French and the British was to stop that. Are you arguing that a President Sanders would not have intervened?
SANDERS: In that particular instance, probably not. There are other ways to deal with crisis.
Look, you could always make the case. You can make the case about Saddam Hussein. Saddam Hussein was a murdering thug. You could make the case about Assad in Syria, my god, what he has done to his own people or about Gaddafi.
These are terrible, brutal dictators. But our job is to think what happens the day after these guys are removed, the kind of instability that occurs.
TAPPER: The argument basically is that the world would be better off with Saddam Hussein and Gaddafi still in power than what happened.
SANDERS: The world would be better off with these dictators out of power but there are ways to get them out of power without causing mass instability and the deaths of many, many, many hundreds of thousands of people.
TAPPER: What ways? Because obviously it's not that easy.
SANDERS: No, it's not that easy but you bring the entire world together.
If your thought is, Jake, or Secretary Clinton's thought is, I don't know what it is but every dictator that's out there, we have to rush in and overthrow them we disagree very, very much. Certainly the war in Iraq, Bush's era, Clinton's era has caused us incalculable harm.
TAPPER: You have not been critical of the Clinton Foundation but there are those who say that there's something inherently wrong with an American charity especially one with ties to a secretary of state taking money from the Saudis...
TAPPER: ... and other foreign governments that don't represent our values. Is that a fair criticism?
SANDERS: Yes it is. It is.
If you ask me about the Clinton Foundation, do I have a problem when a sitting secretary of state and a foundation run by her husband collects many millions of dollars from foreign governments, governments which are dictatorships -- you don't have a lot of civil liberties or democratic rights in Saudi Arabia. You don't have a lot of respect there for opposition points of view for gay rights, for women's rights. Yes, do I have a problem with that? Yes, I do.
TAPPER: Do you think it creates the appearance of conflict of interest?
SANDERS: Yes, I do. I do.
TAPPER: Let's turn to some issues that, no matter what you're going to have a seat at the table when it comes to the platform of the Democratic Party, whether you're the nominee or whether you're not the nominee. And it seems like last time you and I discussed how you thought that superdelegates might be something the party considers getting rid of.
SANDERS: Here is my problem, my problem is that the process today has allowed Secretary Clinton to get the support of over 400 superdelegates before any other Democratic candidate was in the race. It's like an anointment.
TAPPER: Before any vote -- anyone voted?
SANDERS: Eight months before -- eight months before the first vote was cast in Iowa. Frankly, I think that's an absurd process, when it's to the degree superdelegates make any sense, and I don't know that they do. Theoretically their job is to say take the broad view, look at what's going on, who is the strongest candidate, not so be part of an anointment process before any other candidate comes on board. That's just the money interest and the establishment are talking. So I think at the Democratic National Convention, there is going to be a lot of discussion reforming that issue, and that process.
TAPPER: We did a profile this week, Jeff Zeleny, from my show of Bernie or bust. The Bernie or bust movement. These are people who say you're not the nominee, that's it. You're out of the process. What is your message to those people? Obviously you want their support and want to be the nominee...
TAPPER: ... but is Bernie or bust a palatable position? SANDERS: Well, I think to answer your question, the idea that I can snap my fingers and have millions of supporters kind of march in line, that is not what our effort is about.
I think, if I am not the nominee we're going to fight to become the nominee. It is Secretary Clinton's job to explain to those people why she should be -- why she should get their support. And that means she has got to have to address their needs.
Secretary Clinton has got to have to make the convincing argument to them, that how could it be that she's getting huge amounts of money from Wall Street and other powerful special interests and she has got to stand up and fight for them.
TAPPER: But no matter what, are you going to work hard to make sure that Donald Trump loses and the Democratic candidate whether it's you or her...
TAPPER: ... wins?
TAPPER: Senator Sanders, thank you so much and good luck to you here in California on Tuesday.
SANDERS: Thank you very much.
TAPPER: Coming up, what a press conference can tell us about the person behind the podium, it's this week's "States (ph) of the Cartoonion" next.
TAPPER: Welcome back to CNN's STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Jake Tapper coming to you from the beautiful Golden State of California.
Here to cover what could be the end of an endlessly surprising primary season. So many reporters have been working day and night for months to bring you all of the latest from the campaign trail. This week Donald Trump rounded up a bunch of us to tell us how much he hates us. It's this week's "State of the Cartoonion."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The next president of the United States --
TAPPER: Donald Trump held a press conference this week that seemed in large part designed to excoriate its invitees.
TRUMP: Look, I find the press to be extremely dishonest. I find the political press to be unbelievably dishonest. I will say that. OK. Thank you all very much. Thank you.
TAPPER: Trump, who engages with reporters much more than he lets on, was probably playing to the cameras a bit, but a press conference can display a politician's real feelings about the reporters who cover him.
John F. Kennedy was the first to use the presidential press conference televised live.
JOHN F. KENNEY, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Even though we never like it, even though we wish they didn't write it, even though we disapproved, there still is -- there isn't any doubt we couldn't do the job at all in a free society without a very, very active press.
TAPPER: Ronald Reagan adopted JFK's telegenic manner, using humor to deflect questions he didn't care for.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, in talking about the continuing recession tonight, you have blamed mistakes of the past, and you have blamed the congress. Does any of the blame belong to you?
RONALD REAGAN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, because for many years I was a Democrat.
TAPPER: Richard Nixon was regarded as not quite as quick on his feet, and he felt the wit of Dan Rather.
RICHARD NIXON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Are you running for something?
DAN RATHER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No, sir, Mr. President. Are you?
TAPPER: Lesson learned. Humor can always be deployed as an effective tool.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Jake Tapper?
TAPPER: While I appreciate your Spock-like language about the logic of the health care plan --
OBAMA: Was the reference to Spock, is that a crack on my ears?
OBAMA: All right. I just want to make sure.
TAPPER: No, I would never make fun of your ears, sir.
TAPPER: Thanks for spending your Sunday morning with us. You can catch me here every Sunday and weekdays on "THE LEAD" at 4:00 p.m. Eastern, 1:00 p.m. Pacific. And you can go to CNN.com/SOTU, STATE OF THE UNION, for extras from the show.
I'm Jake Tapper in Los Angeles, California.
"FAREED ZAKARIA, GPS" is next.