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Republican Party Disharmony?; Hillary Poised to Become Presumptive Nominee. Aired 3-3:30p ET
Aired June 06, 2016 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:03]
RASHEDA ALI, DAUGHTER OF MUHAMMAD ALI: But I think my most cherished moment with him was when we would FaceTime each other, because I couldn't always be there. But we would FaceTime each other and he -- or when I was with him, those two things.
We would watch Westerners and Dracula movies, because he loved Dracula. So, we watch movies. And he would always go see -- we saw "King Kong," which was like one of his favorite movies ever.
But when we couldn't be with him, we would FaceTime each other. And I used to always cheer him up because I would like put on these scary masks for him and I would dance around the room. And the kids would just laugh.
Biaggio and (INAUDIBLE) would be like, you're nuts. But daddy loved the activity. So, I would jump around the room and laugh. And he made my whole day. You have no idea. And I don't know a world without that. And I'm going to miss it. That, I'm going to miss.
BALDWIN: A beautiful thing. That is a beautiful thing. Cherish those memories.
ALI: Yes.
BALDWIN: Rasheda, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for just being so open with all of us. Thank you.
ALI: Absolutely.
BALDWIN: We all appreciate it.
ALI: May he see and may he live in a world without Parkinson's disease.
BALDWIN: Amen to that. Rasheda, thank you, Rasheda Ali.
All right. Here we go, hour two. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me on this Monday afternoon.
Let's shift gears and talk politics. Just as Hillary Clinton is expected to make history as the first woman nominee for president of the United States here, Donald Trump seems to be undoing some of the party unity he's built since becoming the presumptive Republican nominee.
Secretary Clinton is expected to earn the needed delegates for the Democratic nomination just about by the time the polls close in California, one of six states voting tomorrow. And as the only candidate in his race, the presumptive nominee, Trump will no doubt wins his primaries there, but he is losing ground, losing ground in his own party after he repeatedly told my colleague Jake Tapper that the judge overseeing the lawsuit against Trump University is biased because the judge has Mexican parents.
Stick with us. We're going to talk to Jake Tapper about that extraordinary interview here in just a minute and how he kept pushing him and pushing him and pushing him.
But now some of Trump's best-known Republican supporters are condemning his comments on the judge, including Trump's potential V.P. prospect, Newt Gingrich.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I think it's inexcusable. He has every right to criticize a judge. And he has every right to say certain decisions aren't right. But, first of all, this judge was born in Indiana. He's an American, period.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: I couldn't disagree more with a statement like that.
CHUCK TODD, MODERATOR, "MEET THE PRESS": Is it a racist statement?
MCCONNELL: I couldn't decision agree more with what he had to say.
TODD: OK. But do you -- will you -- do you think it's a racist statement to say?
MCCONNELL: I don't agree with what he had to say.
REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: It's reasoning I don't relate to. I completely disagree with the thinking behind that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: What's more, Trump took it to a new level when he then also said a Muslim judge could also be biased against him.
Let's begin with the hour with CNN's chief political correspondent, Dana Bash.
Dana Bash, where to begin? All the different names who have spoken out against him, all people, major Republican leaders who have supported him, in some cases maybe against him of their own principles, a la Paul Ryan, I mean, he is on an island right now.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Exactly.
He is on a virtual island. You know, I should stop saying I have never seen anything like it in 2016. I think I should just ban that from my vocabulary, but it is true. It was one thing when he was a candidate for the Republican nomination, but he's on a completely different level now. He is the effective head of the Republican Party as its presumptive nominee.
And that gives him a sense of responsibility as far as all of these Republicans you just played feel. They feel that he has to act differently, speak differently, have a different kind of sensibility, particularly when it comes to issues that he has had problems with during the primaries.
You know, Brooke, it is something that you see in politicians, traditional politicians, you know, sort of since the beginning of time, that when they do something that feeds into an existing narrative, it hurts them. And, you know, fair or not, the existing narrative during the primaries this season that Donald Trump made racially insensitive comments about Hispanics, maybe even made racially insensitive, not just comments, but proposed policy prescriptions against others like Muslims.
And I'm not saying that from myself. Even someone like Paul Ryan and other conservatives spoke out about it during the primary season.
[15:05:01]
But, again, this leads to my point about the fact that he is somebody who represents the Republicans, you know, sort of writ large now, which is why I think you see this almost uniform, universal condemnation of him like we haven't seen before.
BALDWIN: Dana Bash, thank you.
And I know you're filing a piece on just sort of the role of race looking at Donald Trump through the years. We will look for that later this evening here on CNN. Thank you, my friend, very much.
BASH: Thank you.
BALDWIN: The judge that Trump has -- putting under fire will not comment about the controversy. He can't, right? He's part of this case.
But that is what he told his brother seen here. Brother's there on the right. Raul Curiel did talk to our correspondent Jim Acosta, saying he believes Trump being divisive is working for him, but it's actually just creating more division.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
RAUL CURIEL, BROTHER OF JUDGE GONZALO CURIEL: I don't think he's strictly an outright racist like some of your Ku Klux Klan. Those kind of people are really racist. They have no redeeming qualities. Trump, I don't believe, is that caliber of person. But he is very, very uninformed.
(END AUDIO CLIP) BALDWIN: With me now, CNN political commentators Mary Katharine Ham, a conservative commentator, Donna Brazile, a Democratic strategist and a superdelegate, and also here, chief executive officer of the National Diversity Coalition for Trump, Pastor Darrell Scott.
Welcome to all of you.
And, Pastor Scott, just coming off of Judge Curiel's brother's comments there, let me just get first your response.
DARRELL SCOTT, NATIONAL DIVERSITY COALITION: Well, I'm in agreement with him in regards to the statement that Donald Trump is not a racist.
In anyone's activities or actions, you seek for the motivation behind it. And I have stated before that, you know, in Donald Trump's opinion, this case should have been dismissed a long time ago. And in searching for a motivation as to why this judge does not dismiss it, when all of the legal opinions that he's received so far communicate to him that it should have been dismissed, and he's searching for a motivation, searching for a reason behind this judge's actions, so that in his opinion it might be because the judge is Mexican, and his statements about...
BALDWIN: Mexican-American.
MARY KATHARINE HAM, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He is American.
SCOTT: Well, he has a Mexican background, a Mexican heritage, Mexican ethnicity.
BALDWIN: Born in Indiana.
SCOTT: OK. He's an Mexican ethnicity, even though he's an American citizen.
And so, in Mr. Trump's mind, this might factor into his decision not to dismiss the case.
BALDWIN: Before we continue on, Pastor, Mary Katharine, essentially, we said the same thing at the same time. You want to jump in?
HAM: No, I just think, look, I think Republicans should be worried about this kind of thing, because Donald Trump is -- and he's happy to say it -- he is like sort of obviously self-interested. He will say whatever it takes on any given day to serve Donald Trump's purposes.
And in the process, he doesn't think through the things and he's happy to be sort of casually racist, casually sexist, casually authoritarian, whatever it is that gets him off the hook at that given moment, and then he also has a core of fans who are happy to see him un-P.C. as possible, which unfortunately sometimes translates, though it does not mean to, even being utterly offensive.
BALDWIN: OK, let me follow up with you.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. But on your note of being casual, here's a little mash-up for everyone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look at my African-American over here. Look at him.
I love Mexican people. I'm leading in every poll with the Hispanics. They love me. I love them.
I love the Muslims. I think they're great people.
Would I consider putting a Muslim-American in my Cabinet? Absolutely no problem with that.
I love the Chinese people.
We won with poorly educated. I love the poorly educated.
I even brought my Bible. The evangelicals, OK? We love the evangelicals.
Nothing beats the Bible, not even "The Art of the Deal." Not even close.
We love with women. I love the women. I cherish women. I love the people in this room. I love Israel. My daughter Ivanka is about to have a beautiful Jewish baby. Everybody loves me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Pastor Scott, how's that not -- how's that not pandering?
SCOTT: That's not pandering.
You know what I believe? Mr. Trump thinks out loud a lot. And I have said -- I have said it before. And I say it again. He's making a transition between being a public person and becoming a public servant. As a public servant, he is not allowed the liberty or license to think out loud as he does as a public person or a private citizen.
And so in making that transition, oftentimes, you know, once again, as I stated, he thinks out loud. But he's trying to express views that he knows are contrary to the depiction of him. Everyone tries to depict him as a racist.
[15:10:00]
He is not a racist. Everyone says he...
BALDWIN: The comment -- the comment -- I just have to ask you, because I know, I know you care. I know you're part of his Diversity Coalition. When he said, I want to say it was Friday, "That's my African-
American" in the crowd, "my African-American," I know the man he was pointing to, he's a Trump fan. He wasn't offended by that. But can you understand why people are saying, what?
SCOTT: But, listen, first of all, you have to understand that offense is determined by intent. Was there malicious intent or a derogatory intent or denigrating intent behind his statement?
No. It was a term of -- I said it was a term of endearment. I will upgrade that to a term of engagement. But I don't understand how we can get upset about that and not get upset when Larry Wilmore said what he said to president, "Yo, Barry, my ninja." I'm not going to use the word.
BALDWIN: Larry Wilmore is not running for president. I was in the room, and a lot of people cringed. I will say that.
(CROSSTALK)
SCOTT: But when Larry Wilmore said that, the offense wasn't there. But if Donald Trump had said that, the nation would have been in an uproar.
If Donald Trump had had the joke that Hillary Clinton had about C.P. time, the nation would be in an uproar, if he said he carried hot sauce in his back pocket. So, I really believe he's judged through a lens that other candidates aren't judged there.
BALDWIN: Donna, you were laughing a second ago. Go ahead.
(CROSSTALK)
DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I laugh because the pastor and I, we haven't had any fellowship time together, but you know there's Scripture that says, may the words of my mouth and the medication of my heart.
Clearly, Donald Trump, you know, I'm not here to, you know, describe his intent. I don't know what's in his heart.
SCOTT: Right.
BRAZILE: That is not my purpose of coming on this show today. What I will say and I believe very strongly is that words have consequences.
They have meaning. And in a legal theater, which I'm not a part of, because I'm not a lawyer, but I talk to lawyers. There are ways in which, if you believe a judge is biased, if you believe that this case will not be handled in a fair and balanced way, whatever, there are legal ways where you can preempt and try to disqualify this Judge.
But to try to disqualify an individual based on their ethnic heritage, their racial background, their gender or what have you, their religion, that is what is un-American, unacceptable. And that is why you have everyone out there today, whether Republican or Democrat, whatever, condemning the kind of vitriol.
There's no place in our society.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: And that's what other people are objecting to. That is what Newt Gingrich is saying is disqualify -- that's wrong. That's what Kelly Ayotte, the senator from New Hampshire, said he should issue a distraction.
I mean, that is...
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Bob Corker, Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, Mary Katherine, all these voices, all these voices.
(CROSSTALK)
HAM: Well, because this is not -- he doesn't bother to make the argument, here's why I think the judge is not fit for this case. Right?
The argument he makes on its face, nakedly, is, his ethnicity, on its face, is disqualifying.
SCOTT: But you know what?
HAM: He is an American citizen. This is not a responsible argument for the presidential candidate to be making.
People are aware of this. And they say, look, this is not something we can accept. It is not a matter of just an un-P.C. comment. He's saying a man is not qualified to judge him because of his ethnicity, end of story.
SCOTT: He is not saying the man is not qualified to judge him. He's saying that because of the exaggerations of the media in regards to his...
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: No, no, no, saying...
(CROSSTALK)
SCOTT: No, listen, I'm giving you the motivation behind it.
He's saying that because of the media, what this man learned from the media in regards to my statements about Mexican-Americans or illegal immigrants, that it could bias him towards me.
And he's thinking out loud. He's saying that the judge is potentially biased. And the thing about it is this. We act as if we're not aware of the racial climate here in America.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: We're very aware of it.
SCOTT: Whenever there is a high-profile case and ethnicity is part of the climate of the case, when the Rodney King verdict came down, there was riot in the streets because blacks think that the white...
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Hold on. Hold on.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: But this isn't about Rodney King. This is about Trump University and people feeling like they were wronged and duped by classes.
(CROSSTALK)
SCOTT: But what I'm trying to say is, we utilize race in regards to judicial activity all the time.
There was an African-American judge that decided this Freddie Gray case recently. And the black community is calling him an Uncle Tom and a sellout because he didn't decide for the blacks. And so what we're saying is, in America, what we're saying is...
(CROSSTALK)
SCOTT: American citizens do believe that race factors into it. That's all I'm saying.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: I respect you. I respect you.
But hang on, hang on. Go ahead, Donna.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: Race has been a part of our DNA.
SCOTT: Right.
BRAZILE: It is our original sin as a country.
SCOTT: Right.
BRAZILE: But we have worked very hard, all Americans, to try to move beyond this so-called moment, where we essentially demonize someone because of their racial heritage or their ethnic background.
[15:15:08]
We should be celebrating the diversity of this country. We should be celebrating the fact that we have judges from all different variety, backgrounds, so this is an important moment, but he is the leader of the Republican Party. If this was -- if the shoe on the other foot, and I was the Democrat and I had to tell someone my candidate was saying this, I would do what Newt Gingrich and Kelly Ayotte and Susan Collins and Paul Ryan and everyone else is saying, which is, this has no place in our political discourse.
And Mr. Trump should take responsibility and stop making these disparaging statements.
(CROSSTALK)
SCOTT: I believe he was speaking as a plaintiff there, rather than as a presidential candidate.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: Amen on that.
BALDWIN: Donna Brazile, Mary Katharine Ham, thank you all very much.
SCOTT: God bless you. Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Thank you.
SCOTT: Bye-bye.
BALDWIN: Bye.
Moments ago here, on the Democratic side, it's almost like these rival moments between these two obviously vying for the nomination, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders holding dueling events, as Secretary Clinton gets closer and closer to clinching the nomination, this as we're learning that President Obama's endorsement of Secretary Clinton is imminent this week, that from Jeff Zeleny.
Also ahead, Donald Trump promises to deliver a rebuttal to Secretary Clinton's scathing foreign policy attack, that speech we took live last week on him. What exactly would a rebuttal of him look like? Let's walk through that.
And the stunning message from a rape victim to her attacker who was given six months, six months behind bars. You will hear from her and what the rapist's dad told this judge.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:20:35]
BALDWIN: We're back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.
With Hillary Clinton on the verge of securing the delegates she needs to clinch the Democratic nomination, she's about to get the endorsement of the nation's top Democrat, none other than the president of the United States.
White House officials and Democratic aides tell CNN that President Obama's poised the throw his full support behind Secretary Clinton as early as this week. Today, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders held dueling events as they're making their final push for votes in California ahead of tomorrow's big primary there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm going to wait an see where we all are after tomorrow.
I am, as you rightly point out, on the path to not only have a very big lead in the popular vote, but a very significant lead in the pledged delegates. And so we will take stock about where we are tomorrow. I'm going to do everything I can to unify the Democratic Party. And I certainly am going to be reaching out to Senator Sanders and hope he will join me in that.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (VT-I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Right now, my focus is on winning the largest state in our country, which has 475 delegates, and in winning the South and North Dakota election, in winning Montana, and in winning New Mexico, and doing the best that we can in a tough race in New Jersey.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Any moment now, Secretary Clinton will be speaking at another event in the Los Angeles area. We will be watching for that here. She is now only 26 delegates shy of clinching that party's nomination. Of course, it officially happens in Philadelphia. But we're watching and they're watching for the numbers of course after tonight.
David Brock is with me, the founder of Correct the Record, a Clinton super PAC. And Jonathan Tasini is here as well, who is the author of "The Essential Bernie Sanders and His Vision for America."
Gentlemen, welcome, welcome to both of you.
And, Mr. Tasini, hearing Senator Sanders speaking at that news conference last hour he was at, we heard him talk again about the superdelegates and he's saying to everyone, slow your roll, essentially, but he was asked if he would be willing to, if he doesn't get the numbers, would you consider endorsing Hillary Clinton before the convention?
He did not rule it out. All of that wrapped up in our he reporting that the president is expected to nominate Hillary Clinton or endorse Hillary Clinton this week.
How do you answer to both of those things?
JONATHAN TASINI, AUTHOR, "THE ESSENTIAL BERNIE SANDERS AND HIS VISION FOR AMERICA": Well, first of all, only bill collectors call me Mr. Tasini, Brooke. I thought we knew each other a little bit better than that.
(LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: I was being kind to you, sir.
TASINI: I'm just kidding.
Look, I'm with Bernie all the way to the convention. Actually, I want to give credit to Secretary Clinton. In the clip that you played, she didn't say she was going to clinch the nomination tomorrow. That's incorrect. And I'm disappointed the media keeps repeating that not- factual point.
Tomorrow, when -- after those votes are held, there's still a December (sic) 14 primary in the District of Columbia. We will not know who the nominee is until the convention, when the superdelegates stand along with the pledged delegates and vote.
And there's 50 days between tomorrow roughly and the convention roll call. So, personally, and along with the thousands of people that were out there enthusiastically working for Bernie, I just got back from California. Enormous enthusiasm. People want and really believe, Brooke, we want to take it to the convention because people really believe in this fundamental difference in visions and in a political revolution.
BALDWIN: But, to your point -- David, I'm coming to you in a second -- but to your point about the pledged delegates vs. the superdelegates -- and you're absolutely correct about, you know, the convention -- back in 2008, once then Senator Obama clinched the pledged delegates, Senator Sanders endorsed him, called him the nominee.
Why is this different?
TASINI: So, let me make two points.
One is, there's no doubt to me in my mind that whoever's the nominee, that other person will support the nominee because of the danger of Donald Trump. And both Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton have said I think favorable things about each other compared to Donald Trump.
But there is a very fundamental difference between the primary that happened in 2008 and now. Back then, frankly, there wasn't the kind of divide and vision between Secretary Clinton, then Senator Clinton and Barack Obama. The difference between Bernie Sanders and the vision that he has, which is to have a political revolution, to get rid of establishment politics and establish economics, is very fundamentally different than what the status quo candidate, Hillary Clinton, offers.
[15:25:00]
And that's what I have seen, Brooke, in the many people I have met. I have traveled now since August, September for Bernie in towns, cities all across the country. BALDWIN: Sure.
TASINI: And people really feel very strongly about that.
BALDWIN: Sure. I have been to rallies. I have felt it, reported on it myself.
David Brock, I want you to respond to Jonathan's points, but also -- we also know that there are efforts under way. The Clinton campaign is talking to the White House about this Obama endorsement, and perhaps some sort of an event. You know, obviously they would like to have Senator Sanders on board, depending on what happens this week and his preferences.
But wouldn't the Clinton campaign need him?
DAVID BROCK, FOUNDER, CORRECT THE RECORD: Oh, sure, yes.
Look, I think it is instructive to go back, because eight years ago tomorrow, I believe, is the day that Hillary...
BALDWIN: That's correct. Bowed out.
BROCK: ... conceded the race.
And the reality is that she did that in a way that was the gold standard. She actually by some counts had more of the popular vote, but what reality was that a combination of the pledged delegates and the superdelegates had put then-Senator Obama over the top.
And her imperative was to help elect him. And so flash-forward now eight years later. The same standard that is going to apply tomorrow night, when she goes over the top and the media's going to report that she goes over the top, is the math on the superdelegates and on the pledged delegates.
So, to argue otherwise, to say that this reality should not be reported and we shouldn't go forward operating in it is to create a double standard for Hillary and all that she has achieved.
TASINI: No.
(CROSSTALK)
BROCK: We are going to see history made tomorrow night.
(CROSSTALK)
BROCK: Hold on. We're going to see history made tomorrow night. And there's no difference between now and when Senator Sanders accepted then-Senator Obama as a presumptive nominee eight years ago. That's the definition of presumptive nominee.
(CROSSTALK)
TASINI: Brooke, David, as usual, is creating falsehoods from facts. The fact is -- and what everyone is saying in 2008 happened in 2008. The fact is, tomorrow night...
BROCK: But it always happens. These are the rules. It applies to every nominee. Why say differently?
(CROSSTALK)
TASINI: ... pledged delegates to clinch the nomination.
The nomination will not be known until both the pledged delegates and the superdelegates stand on the floor. There's 50 days between tomorrow and the convention.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: OK, OK. I understand. I understand that.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: But let me jump in. I understand. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.
I want to pose a question to David.
BROCK: Sure.
BALDWIN: Because we heard from Bill Clinton over the weekend. He was at an event. Apparently, he was heckled by some Sanders supporters.
And I want to ask you about his choice of words, because if in fact Hillary Clinton does clinch the pledged delegates, he said that the supporters are toast, David. Would you agree with that?
BROCK: Well, I don't think they're toast.
I think we need Sanders' supporters to join Hillary's cause. I think the stakes are so high in this election. We all know it. Jonathan knows it. Senator Sanders, we take at his word.
And I agree with Jeff Merkley, who is the only senator who has actually endorsed Senator Sanders, that if in fact Hillary goes over the top tomorrow night, as we know she will, it's time to bring people together and to fight Trump.
TASINI: She will not.
BALDWIN: All right. All right.
David Brock, Jonathan Tasini, gentlemen, thank you very much.
BROCK: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Thank you.
TASINI: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Coming up next, Donald Trump announcing he will be delivering a speech hitting back at Hillary Clinton over critiques of his foreign policy chops and really his temperament. We all watched that together a couple of days ago. What might that rebuttal look like?
We will talk to David Rohde about that coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
