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WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI
Clinton, Obama Slam Trump's Immigration Rhetoric; Source: Orlando Shooter Cased Disney And Gay Club; Source: Scene Of Attack Broadcast On Facebook; UEFA Hands Russia "Suspended Disqualification"; Russia, England Fans Clashed At Euro 2016; Orlando's Gay Community Shaken; Killer Broadcast Scene Of Attack On Facebook; Survivors Recount Night Of Horror At Club. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired June 14, 2016 - 15:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:10] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We are live at CNN London. Thanks for being with us. This
is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
Well, it was a powerful speech about American values and how the U.S. is responding to the threat of terror from the U.S. President Barack Obama.
Mr. Obama's statement about preserving democratic values while fighting jihadists comes in the aftermath of Orlando, the worst terrorist attack in
America since 9/11.
It also comes in a season of bitter partisan division and very different visions for America and how to fight terrorism. Mr. Obama was visibly
angry at his critics. We begin with his words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We now have proposals from the presumptive Republican nominee for president of the United States to
bar all Muslims from immigrating to America.
You hear language that singles out immigrants and suggests entire religious communities are complicit in violence. Where does this stop? The Orlando
killer, one of the San Bernardino killers, the Fort Hood killer, they were all U.S. citizens.
Are we going to start treating all Muslim-Americans differently? Are we going to start subjecting them to special surveillance? Are we going to
start discriminating against them because of their faith? We don't have religious tests here.
Our founders, our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, are clear about that. And if we ever abandon those values, we would not only make it a lot easier
to radicalize people here and around the world.
But we would have betrayed the very things we are trying to protect, the pluralism and the openness, our rule of law, our civil liberties, the very
things that make this country great. The very things that make us exceptional and then the terrorists would have won. And we cannot let that
happen. I will not let that happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, the issue at hand here is not simply what the president has to say but the path forward. The massacre in Orlando is forcing right now
the presumptive presidential nominees to both clarify very different approaches to the fight against terrorism.
We heard Donald Trump yesterday reiterate his call for a ban on Muslim immigrants, even though the shooter was a U.S. citizen. Today Hillary
Clinton attacked that plan. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've talk before about how this approach is un-American. It goes against everything we stand for as a
country, founded on religious freedom, but it is also dangerous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, there is Hillary Clinton. Now Trump today has not taken to the podium yet, but he has released a statement. President Obama claims to
know our enemy, and yet he continues to prioritize our enemy over our allies, and for that matter, the American people. When I am president, it
will be America first. That from Donald Trump, the Republican nominee.
Chief U.S. correspondent, John King, joins me now from Washington to discuss both speeches and the decision facing voters in November.
[15:05:04]And those are two extremely different approaches to how to tackle the problem of homegrown terrorism, of the terrorist threat against the
Unite States. Voters are going to have to make a decision on that in November -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is remarkable, Hala, both on the policy and politics. To have the incumbent president of the United
States come out standing at the Treasury Department after meeting with his national security team, spend so much time on his own -- he was not asked a
Sometimes the president is asked about Mr. Trump and he wades into the politics. But to bring it up himself and to go after the Republican
nominee saying essentially he's wrong about everything and he's dangerous about everything is a remarkable moment.
Number one, in the immediate aftermath of Orlando, when the United States government has to make important policy decisions and when Mr. Trump has a
following as the presumptive Republican nominee he now speaks for Republican Party in the United States.
So the president is trying to deal with the policy crisis at the moment. But make no mistake he's also wading with both feet, both hands, and his
rhetorical skills into the presidential campaign.
You heard Secretary Clinton making the case for the Democrats. Hala, it is five months to the election. We don't know how much Orlando terrorism will
be on the minds of American voters when they go to the polls.
But we do know at this moment after this tragedy the temperatures are rising and the divide is pretty sharp.
GORANI: What I found interesting is that this high level national security meeting was scheduled of course before Orlando. Presumably some of his
speech was written as well before Orlando.
And certainly before the comments Donald Trump made in the aftermath of this shooting. Yet I understand there were some heavy edits brought to
that speech after what the presumptive Republican nominee had to say. Is that correct?
KING: Yes, that is correct. They listened to Mr. Trump yesterday at the White House. Again, and you made the point, he reiterates his call for a
ban on Muslims, the perpetrator in this attack was born here in the United States.
The president wants to say factually, Mr. Trump, you make no case. You make no sense and he wants to get into this debate. Other Republicans are
quite exasperated, Hala, in the sense that Donald Trump also said, you know, the other day in an interview that something's going on with the
He doesn't seem to want to be enough here insinuating to many maybe that he sympathized with the attack. A lot of Republicans are apoplectic about
that because they think it is way over the line.
Now Donald Trump leads their party. When Donald Trump says things that are provocative and controversial and offensive, they have to answer questions
They believe you can make the case that the president hasn't taken the Islamic State seriously enough or at least he didn't in the beginning.
But I think you could make a policy case that he should have pressed the Iraqi government harder to leave a residual U.S. force there and maybe the
Islamic State would have not gained the strength that it gained.
But instead Mr. Trump steers us into debates about banning Muslims and then innuendo about, you know, what's going on with the president. So the
president is mad about this. You could see it. He's annoyed there and Republicans are worried about this.
GORANI: But let me ask you this though, I mean, is this hurting him politically? Because in the past every time he's -- Donald Trump has said
things that even in his own Republican Party have angered some of the top leadership. In the polls, it did not translate into a loss of support.
What are we seeing on that front?
KING: You're asking the defining question of the U.S. presidential election, can Donald Trump get away in the general election with the
tactics that he used in the primary campaign?
Republican primaries are overwhelmingly white voters and majority men voters. The general election in November in the United States will have a
much more diverse electorate and will be majority women at the polls.
We have five months now and he has one opponent, not 15 or 16 opponents that he can play ping-pong with. I do know this. Before this incident,
Donald Trump's poll numbers were dropping when he was attacking the Latino judge overseeing a fraud case.
His poll numbers dropped in a number of key battleground states. The question you're asking now, let's look in a week, ten, 12 days, what's the
state of the U.S. presidential election then.
Does this hurt or help Donald Trump? When we see those numbers we'll get a sense of whether he doubles down and continues this strategy or whether he
recalibrates a bit.
GORANI: All right, John King, our chief U.S. correspondent in Washington, thanks very much.
Now back to Orlando, a very complex picture is emerging today of the gunman behind the massacre. Investigators say Omar Mateen in fact was no stranger
to gay night clubs. Certainly not the one where he opened fire killing 49 people.
Regular customers say he'd visited the Pulse Club multiple times over several years. The FBI is also questioning several men who say they met
Mateen on gay dating apps.
Investigators are also focusing on Mateen's wife. Sources tell CNN they are trying to determine whether she had prior knowledge of the plot. CNN
has also learned that Mateen cased out the nightclub and a Disney entertainment site earlier this month.
Let's get more now from CNN justice correspondent, Evan Perez. He is following developments from Washington. So let's talk about these new
details emerging about the shooter and the possibility that he may have cased a site at Disney and this nightclub as well.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: That's right, Hala. I think we're getting a picture -- at least the investigation by the FBI is getting a
picture of -- is one of intense preparation by this gunman before he launched this attack.
[15:10:06]He according to information that the FBI has been able to get from interviews and from other evidence gathered they've discovered that he
traveled to a complex, an entertainment complex known as Disney Springs.
It's right next to the Walt Disneyworld theme park. It is a very popular place. It's packed with families and certainly during the time in early
June when he traveled there, it was also the focus of gay days celebration, something that attract LGBT tourists from all over the world,
who come to various theme parks there in Orlando to celebrate what's known as gay days.
He traveled there in early June, between January 1st and January 6th. The FBI believes that this visit, along with another visit to the Pulse
Nightclub during that same time, may have been an effort to case or to do surveillance in preparation for an attack.
Now he had previously been to Disneyworld. Disney security has told the FBI that they found that he visited on April 26 with his family, with his
wife, and they suspect that that visit also was an effort to do reconnaissance and do surveillance in preparation for a possible attack.
We know also, Hala, that he was at Disney Springs just hours before the attack on the night before the attack, on Saturday night he was there for
several hours. Cell phone tower data has been able to identify that he was in that complex before he launched his attack.
GORANI: What about all these reports that he was on gay dating apps, that he frequented Pulse over several years? I mean, was he secretly gay? I
mean, what is being said in terms of law enforcement? What is the going theory here?
PEREZ: Well, I think you called it a complex picture. I think that's exactly what this is. The FBI frankly doesn't know what to make of this.
They are interviewing those people who have come forward to say that they saw him there.
They are looking at records to see if they can place him at that location in those previous cases. They're looking at his computers. They've been
able to retrieve his computer from his house. They've got his cell phone.
Now they can find those apps and to see whether or not he's been able to use those. Now it is something that also his family I believe his ex-wife
has now spoken about that she had some suspicions in the past and she said this in interviews in the last couple of days.
I got to tell you, this is not an unusual situation. We've seen multiple ISIS cases in this country in the past year in which the FBI has found when
looking at their media and looking at computers of these suspects finds gay porn and that type of material.
These are people who sometimes are struggling with their identity, trying to figure out where they fit. Sometimes they are angry and this is what
they do. They go to -- become followers of extremist Islam, some kind of way to prevent themselves from following those tendencies. So that is
something that the FBI is certainly looking into -- Hala.
GORANI: All right, well, more details will emerge. Thanks very much, Evan Perez there for looking into that. We'll speak again soon.
Now the survivors of this massacre giving horrific accounts of what they had to endure in that nightclub for hours not knowing if they would live or
if they would die. Some are in the hospital still receiving treatment for their wounds.
One man described how he was shot several times in the leg, then trampled on as people ran in panic and the nightmare didn't end there. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGEL COLON, ORLANDO SHOOTING SURVIVOR: All I could hear was the shotgun one after another and people screaming. People yelling for help. By this
time, this man, he goes into the other room and I can just hear more shotguns going on.
I thought I was a little safe at this time because it's giving everyone time to tackle him down or get him down. But, unfortunately, I hear him
come back and he's shooting everyone that's already dead on the floor, making sure they're dead.
I was able to peek over and I can just see him shooting everyone. And I can hear the shotgun's closer and I look over and he shoots the girl next
to me. And I'm just there laying down, I'm thinking I'm next, I'm done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, thankfully he survived. Angel Colon describing how the shooter essentially aimed his gun at the girl next to him, shot in his
direction, but for some reason missed his head and hit him in the hip. And he's been treated there in the hospital since that horrific night.
While Orlando struggles to recover from the devastating mass shooting, France confronts another deadly terrorist attack. A man who pledges
allegiance to ISIS killed a French police commander and his wife Monday night northwest of Paris. In an especially sick twist, the aftermath of
the attack was broadcast on Facebook live.
[15:15:10]Atika Shubert joins me now live from Magnanville in France where these killings took place. Tell us more about what authorities are saying
about this double murder.
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is where the attack took place at night, just before 9:00 p.m. last night.
Initially reports were very confusing as to what happened. All that we knew was that a police officer had been stabbed several times and his wife
and child taken hostage.
But as it became clear when we heard about this Facebook live being posted, there was no question that it was a terrorist attack.
SHUBERT (voice-over): These images of the chilling moment Larossi Abballa broadcast live on Facebook just after he had stabbed to death a police
officer, Jean-Baptiste Salvaing, and his partner, Jessica Schneider, in their suburban home taking hostage their 3-year-old son.
In the video, Abballa swore allegiance to ISIS. At one point, even gestured back at the child and said, I don't know what to do with him.
By midnight, SWAT teams forced their way in and shot Abballa dead rescuing the child. In his car, police say they found a list of targets, including
police officers, journalists, musical artists, and other public figures. The French prosecutor confirmed what was found.
FRANCOIS MOLINS, PARIS PROSECUTOR (through translator): Three knives were seized, in particular a knife covered with blood. In the vehicle which was
parked near the building, a Koran was found as well with references to authentic belief. You know those certain number of claims were made by the
terrorists including a posting at 8:22 on Facebook with a 12-minute video claiming responsibility.
SHUBERT: The 25-year-old was known to police as a petty criminal convicted of terror recruitment in 2013. According to the prosecutor, he did serve
time in prison, but was also given early release. The prosecutor's office also said his phone was monitored, but there were no signs of an imminent
Abballa operated a nighttime food delivery business in the same area as his victims. Neighbors in this quiet town describe to CNN the night of the
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We thought it was a war scene. We didn't think we were in Magnanville. We thought we were in a film, a
SHUBERT: In his Facebook video, Abballa said he was answering ISIS' call for attacks during the Islamic holy month of Ramadan and he threatened to
make the ongoing European football championship into a cemetery putting France already on the highest state of alert, even more on edge.
SHUBERT: Now French police say they have arrested and are interrogating two other people who are associates of the attacker. But at this point, it
does seem that he acted alone -- Hala.
GORANI: All right, thank you very much, Atika Shubert outside Paris.
Amid the latest terror attack, football fan violence inside stadiums has made it a difficult start for Euro 2016. Now the organizer is taking
action. If this happens again, they will be in trouble. We'll be right back.
GORANI: It's been going on for less than a week, but Euro 2016 has already been marred by some pretty shocking violence. Now UEFA, the organizer,
says Russia could be kicked out of the competition entirely if there is a repeat of trouble inside its grounds by Russian fans.
Dozens of people were injured during clashes Saturday inside the stadium in Marseilles, which followed days of rioting on the streets. Matthew Chance
is in Moscow with more.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is a thug's eye view of the violence that's marred Euro 2016. One Russian
hooligan actually filming his own rampage through the streets of Marseilles. One seen he shows himself and his comrades vandalizing a cafe.
In another, they're kicking an English fan as he cowers on the ground. It is this kind of appalling behavior that's seen UEFA impose a suspended
disqualification on Russia. If it happens again, UEFA says they're out.
(on camera): Do you still think it is OK for football fans to fight?
(voice-over): It is a message even the most belligerent Russian officials appear to be heeding including the MP who tweeted support for the fighting.
Out of step with the kremlin, which condemned the violence, he's now changed his tone.
IGOR LEBEDEV, RUSSIAN PARLIAMENTARIAN (through translator): The softest punishment would have been a fine. The harshest one would have been a
total disqualification. UEFA's decision was something in between and we only have to be thankful for that. And I support the opinion of the
Russian football union chairman who said we would not appeal the decision.
CHANCE: Back in France, the authorities are finally, perhaps belatedly, getting tough. Riot police surrounding a Russian fan bus suspected of
carrying some of the hard-core hooligans French prosecutors say were behind the violence.
Russian social media postings say many on board have been told they'll be deported. The rest are being returned to Marseilles for questioning as
French police struggle to prevent the events of this weekend being repeated in the games ahead. Matthew Chance, CNN, Moscow.
GORANI: All eyes now are turning to Lille in the north of France and not too far away Lens in Northern France. Russia plays Slovakia on Wednesday.
England plays Wales in Lens on Thursday. You can see just how close the two are on the map.
Let's go to Lille and speak to Fred Pleitgen. All right, so first let's talk about the atmosphere. Are there -- in Lille, we have Russia/Slovakia.
Are the Russian fans there already?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They certainly are, Hala. The Russian fans are here. There is actually a lot of England
fans that are here as well. I'd take tens of thousands of fans from both countries are here once again.
The reason for that is because Lens where England plays and Lille where Russia is going to play are pretty close. England fans have actually been
told to stay here in Lille because there is more hotel capacity here.
So right now I'm standing in the center of Lille. I would say it is definitely the England fans who are in the majority. There have been some
skirmishing here in central Lille, the England fans saying they were attacked by some Russian fans. Video surfaced on YouTube as well.
Over the past I'd say two hours we've been here in this location it's been quite loud here. The England fans are singing but we hadn't really seen
anything in the way of violence. At this point in time it appears as though things are under control here in Central Lille.
But certainly authorities here really are fearful that something like what happened in Marseilles could happen here once again simply because you have
so many of the same fans.
But at the same time what you also have is of course the threat of those disciplinary measures especially against the Russian team if their fans
cause any more trouble inside the stadium.
But then again there could be tougher measures against Russia if things happen outside the stadium. Those are measures that UEFA would have to
take up at some point in time or decide if they want to take.
But right now, I would say the mood is a little bit tense here in Central Lille, but it has remain pretty calm so far.
GORANI: I understand that Lens is banning alcohol completely, as in a town-wide ban. The town will be dry. But in Lille, it is a big French
city. Obviously alcohol is a big part in what fuels all this nonsense.
[15:25:07]And I can imagine that people are in bars, in cafes, et cetera, et cetera. So there has to be some concern there or not?
PLEITGEN: Well, there is. You are absolutely right. There is certainly some concern. Some of the bars remain open. In fact we are standing in
front of some that are open right here. Some have actually shut their doors. One of the things that is here, obviously they're not going to stop
giving people alcohol here in this very big city.
What is going on here, however, is that there is a massive police presence on the ground. We've seen dozens of police vans, police in riot gear
patrolling the street really making clear to a lot of these football fans that they aren't going to tolerate anything in the way of violence.
We'll wait and see whether or not that's something that the fans are actually going to heed. One of the other things, quite frankly, Hala, that
the authorities are hoping for here in the next two days is rain.
They believe that if the weather is bad that could actually quell some of the will of people here to pick a fight. There are certainly some bars
that are not open. There are some that we've seen closed down just over the past two hours that we've been here in the central square in Lille --
GORANI: I'm not sure rain has ever dampened -- in England you're pretty used to it so it is not something that's going to change anybody's plans.
Let's hope it stays quiet.
But in Marseilles the issue was some people were saying the police showed up too late, the fights were going on for a while before law enforcement
intervened. But it appears as though Lille, their security setup is different right from the beginning. Right?
PLEITGEN: Well, yes. They've said that they've definitely bolstered the police force here in Lille and Lens as well. They've put a lot of
different police officers in various parts of France on streets, on the ground in Lille. It is interesting.
As we've been standing here in the central square we've seen a lot of police vans additionally come in. You look over to the central rail
terminal which is a place where really often is a place friction happens because a lot of the fans coming up here from places like Marseilles,
Russians and also English as well, they'll congregate around the railway terminal.
There is a lot of police vans going on there and police trying to be proactive showing out in force, trying to make clear to the people that
they are not going to tolerate any sort of transgressions here. We'll wait and see whether or not that holds.
It is right now about 25 past 9:00 p.m. here in the evening. We'll see what the rest of the night brings but so far the police is going to show
that it is here in full force -- Hala.
GORANI: All right, Fred Pleitgen in Lille, thanks very much.
Now to a very emotional day in court at the sentencing hearing for Oscar Pistorius in South Africa. Shaking with emotion and fighting back tears,
Reeva Steenkamp's father said the former Olympic track star must pay for murdering his daughter.
Barry Steenkamp took the stand for the first time against Pistorius sharing his deep pain and grief.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARRY STEENKAMP, REEVA STEENKAMP'S FATHER: At times I thought that (inaudible) -- against the walls, my knuckles, the injections I would want
to shove it into my arms to see if I can feel the same type of pain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Barry Steenkamp talking about what it was like in the months and years following the death of his daughter.
A lot more to come, U.S. President Barack Obama calls it a political distraction firing back an criticism of the language that he uses in
dealing and describing terrorism. We'll get some Republican reaction to the president's fiery speech this evening.
And there is a new climate of fear but a spirit of resolve in a city that has been a beacon of understanding and inclusion. What it is like to be a
gay activist trying to help victims in Orlando coming up next.
[15:31:02] GORANI: A look at our top stories, a man under investigation for links to terrorism has killed a French police commander and his partner
in the northwest of Paris. This is a photo of one of his victims, Commander Jean-Baptiste Salvaing. A French SWAT team rescued the couple's
3-year-old son and then killed the attacker.
Also among our top stories, new information is emerging about the gunman who killed 49 people at a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida. Regular
customers say Omar Mateen visited the club multiple times over several years. The FBI is also questioning a few men who say they met Mateen on
gay dating apps.
And Russia will be thrown out of Euro 2016 if its fans cause trouble again in the stadium during the tournament. That is the ruling of Europe's
football governing body after violence disrupted Saturday a Russia/England match. The Russian team must also pay a fine of $170,000.
Let's return to our top story. President Barack Obama and Democratic presidential nominee, Hillary Clinton's attack on Donald Trump today and
what Mr. Obama called his dangerous proposal for a ban on Muslims.
Take a listen to another issue the U.S. president raised during his speech.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: The main contribution of some of my friends on the other side of the aisle have made in the fight against ISIL is to criticize this
administration and me for not using the phrase "radical Islam." That's the key, they tell us.
We can't beat ISIL unless we call them radical Islamists. What exactly would using this label accomplish? What exactly would it change? Would it
make ISIL less committed to trying to kill Americans? Would it bring in more allies? Is there a military strategy that is served by this? The
answer is, none of the above.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: After dealing with the wording, the semantics, both Mr. Obama and Hillary Clinton went on to say that the substance of Trump's argument could
be harmful to the country's national security. Listen to what Hillary Clinton had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: First, we rely on partners in Muslim countries to fight terrorists. This would make it harder. Second, we need to build trust in
Muslim communities here at home to counter radicalization, and this would make it harder.
Third, Trump's words will be -- in fact, they already are -- a recruiting tool for ISIS to help them increase its ranks of people willing to do what
we saw in Orlando. And, fourth, he's turning Americans against Americans, which is exactly what ISIS wants.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Hillary Clinton. Let's discuss Trump's rhetoric and strategy with two conservative voices who probably won't agree on Trump himself.
[15:35:04]Lanhee Chan is a former aide to Mitt Romney during his 2012 presidential campaign. Mitt Romney has come out against Donald Trump and
his statements, and CNN political commentator, Jeffrey Lord supports Donald Trump.
Lanhee, let me start with you. The GOP has a big problem here, doesn't it? The divide is becoming bigger and bigger between the Republican
establishment as symbolized and personified by Mitt Romney, among others, and Donald Trump. Would you agree that the party is in trouble here?
LANHEE CHAN, FORMER 2012 MITT ROMNEY CAMPAIGN AIDE: I think there is a division. I think the challenge really comes down to this, which is that
there is a critique of the Obama administration and that includes Hillary Clinton regarding their conduct of the war on terror.
And you know, that criticism comes, for example, from arguing that they have not been aggressive enough in pursuing ISIS, but also their actions
with respect to closing down Guantanamo Bay as a place to hold enemy combatants. So there is a substantive critique.
The problem is that Donald Trump, in giving the speech that he gave yesterday, wasn't providing a substantive critique but was really kind of
taking our eyes off the ball, and that I think really gets some Republicans worried because there is a critique that we believe works. It is just not
the one Donald Trump is using.
GORANI: All right, Jeffrey Lord, how do you respond to that? Because Republicans in the GOP -- not just Democrats, you are saying, this is
really just out of control now. It is not just a Muslim ban, it is a ban from very large parts of the world where perhaps there is some connection
At what point in time, it is unclear, but this is becoming something that is just very -- in direct opposition to American values of inclusion. How
do you respond to that?
JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I would say it is not in direct opposition to American values. Number one, Franklin Roosevelt put --
immediate the day after Pearl Harbor issued three presidential proclamations that put controls on Germans, Japanese and Italians who were
in the country and we're not American citizens. Did that in essence by fiat.
So under a law, I might add it was passed in 1779 when John Adams was president of the United States and was there to control the French during
the French revolution. So this has been going on for a long time.
GORANI: Jeffrey Lord, you know better than anyone that that period of American history certainly is not remembered fondly where you had Japanese
non-American -- of Japanese origin in camps after Pearl Harbor.
LORD: I'm not talking about the interments. I'm talking about something else entirely where if you were an immigrant here in the country of one of
those three nationalities, you weren't allowed to hold a job more than six miles from home, you had to register with the government. I'm not at all
talking about --
GORANI: But you think that should be done with American-Muslims or Muslims who are in the United States today in 2016?
LORD: There is precedent for dealing with these kind of things. Now what Donald Trump is saying is let's stop the flow here until we can fix the
system and then start it up again. We simply cannot have people continuing to come in to the country and murder Americans, mass murder Americans. In
this case they targeted this guy targeted gays. I mean, this is --
GORANI: He was born in the U.S. Lanhee Chan, how do you --
LORD: Why were the parents here? How come we didn't know anything about their background?
GORANI: Well -- but in that case -- anyway, I'm going to let Lanhee Chan respond to that. How do you respond to that? Because within the GOP here
you have very, very starkly different approaches even within the same party. What's your response to what Jeffrey Lord has said?
CHAN: Well, you know, look, I think you have alluded to some of this. First of all, talking about what was done in the wake of Pearl Harbor, you
know, one can make an argument about the national security exigency, but everyone agrees that a lot of that activity was simply not consistent and
in keeping with America, the country that we are.
I think that the policies that Donald Trump is talking about now, it is not just saying, hey, let's put a pause on refugee flow to the United States.
It's actually much broader than that.
He's talking about limiting the flow of immigration not just from Muslim countries but also potentially from parts of the world that may have
propagated terrorist activity against the U.S. in the past. That could include the entire world.
So it is just not a serious proposal. I think the challenge is we're all waiting for the serious critique of Hillary Clinton when it comes to
foreign policy and national security.
Instead, we're getting proposals which I don't think anyone can take seriously. I think that's really the challenge here, is that this campaign
should be fought really on a critique of the Obama administration --
GORANI: Lanhee, your candidate, I mean, Mitt Romney, the Republican establishment, failed at doing that, failed resoundingly. They weren't
able to provide any sort of political competition to Barack Obama and his re-election. So therefore, is the rise of Donald Trump not a result of the
failure of the establishment you support?
[15:40:07]CHAN: Well, to be fair, it was a hard-fought campaign in 2012. Obviously, we came up short so we weren't successful. But I think the
bottom line is this -- we are in an electoral cycle now where Hillary Clinton represents the continuation of Barack Obama.
And the question for American voters really is this -- do they want four more years like the last eight years. I think there are really substantive
issues on which there can be differences between a conservative world view and that which Hillary Clinton is presenting. The problem is that isn't
what the nominee, the presumptive nominee of the Republican Party --
GORANI: But he's your nominee. He's your nominee. Like it or not. Jeffrey, go ahead.
LORD: Hala, he is the nominee because 13.2 million people in the base of the Republican Party wanted him to be the nominee because they're really
upset about these issues. This is a terrible thing to say, but what happened here in Orlando as with San Bernardino, only drives the point home
and is going to help him.
I mean, when these terrible things happen, this makes the American people furious, furious. They feel that what's been happening the last eight
years has utterly failed and it's literally killing people. They want it to stop. So they're looking to Donald Trump.
GORANI: Well, it's also a question of whether or not the American people in the general election will decide that Donald Trump's world view and his
approach to dealing with not just terrorist attacks but mass shootings and gun violence is one that they agree with.
Lanhee Chan, I've got to ask you, I mean, if Donald Trump were elected, do you consider he is a good representative of the Republican Party? Would
you prefer him over Hillary Clinton as someone who advised Mitt Romney in 2012?
CHAN: You know, I have great discomfort about Donald Trump and what he's been saying and what he purports to represent. I don't think that it is a
fundamental value of the Republican Party to say that we exclude people from this country based on a religious belief or on race or ethnicity. I
just don't think that that is the way a party should --
GORANI: But will you vote for him?
CHAN: -- should operate going forward.
GORANI: Will you vote for him?
CHAN: I don't plan on it. No. I don't plan on voting for Hillary Clinton either. I think that it is a big problem when you have somebody who's
articulating these points of view which are highly disruptive and highly problematic.
GORANI: All right, Jeffrey, last word?
LORD: What he's saying is that we stop the immigration process because we want to weed out people who are national security threats. National
security. Race, religion, ethnicity, anything. They should not be coming in to this country if their objective is to murder Americans, period.
GORANI: Well, OK. Even though those who have murdered Americans in the last two attacks were born inside the United States, but we're going to
keep on having --
CHAN: Were born in America.
GORANI: Exactly. We'll keep on having this conversation. Jeffrey Lord, Lanhee Chan, thanks so much to both of you for taking part in the program
this evening, as always.
We've been discussing the political fallout from the Orlando nightclub massacre. Let's return now to the people who have been so hurt by it.
Orlando has a vibrant LGBT community but now it also has a rising level of fear which is quite understandable. Martin Savidge reports from Orlando.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the center, the phone calls, the donations, the people, all just keep coming. Drawn to the heart
of Orlando's LGBT community to help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you for your generosity.
SAVIDGE: Rob Dominico (ph) is on "The Center's" Board of Directors, he's also constantly moving afraid that if he slows down he might see the list,
the list of the dead.
ROB DOMINICO, BOARD OF DIRECTORS, "THE CENTER": Someone on that list is somebody I love.
SAVIDGE (on camera): You know them.
DOMINICO: There is just no doubt.
SAVIDGE: You don't want to face that?
DOMINICO: I'm not ready. I'm just not ready.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): The hate-fueled slaughter of 49 people inside the Pulse Nightclub has not only left Orlando's gay community in grief, it's
introduced an emotion many here have never known before -- fear.
CHRISTIAN CASTOLAN, VOLUNTEER: We went out to eat dinner. I had fear even being close to my partner just because of what had just happened.
SAVIDGE: Orlando's LGBT population set to number over 100,000. Many drawn by theme park jobs, great weather, and most of all the city's reputation
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody feels comfortable going to Pulse. We've really kind of assimilated in a way which is a good thing.
SAVIDGE: But in the aftermath of the nation's deadliest mass shooting, that good thing has gone bad.
ALEX LUGO, RESIDENT: That change in the first eight hours after this, after everything happened. That's changed for everyone.
SAVIDGE: Alex Lugo says the attack killed not only killed at least seven of his friends, it also left him forever changed, fearing he's targeted
because of who he loves.
LUGO: How am I supposed to feel comfortable now, you know? Not knowing whether I'm safe or not.
SAVIDGE: Back at "The Center," Rob Dominico understands that feeling as he introduces something the facility has never had in its four decades --
[15:45:11]DOMINICO: As they're coming in, just have a mandatory bag check.
SAVIDGE: Orlando's gay community lost more than 49 lives this past weekend. Many here believe it also lost the idea of a safe place. Martin
Savidge, CNN, Orlando.
GORANI: Still ahead, a killer broadcasts live from the scene of his attack in France. We'll look at the role of Facebook in this particular double
murder terrorist attack next.
GORANI: Let's turn now again to the situation in France. A man under investigation for terrorist ties killed a police commander and his wife
overnight. The killer -- this is really hard to wrap your mind around -- livestreamed the aftermath of the attack on Facebook.
The social media site says it's working with French authorities on the case. The incident raises a whole load of questions about how platforms
like Facebook and Twitter may be used to broadcast some crimes or terrorist attacks.
CNN Money business correspondent, Samuel Burke is live from the Nasdaq Entrepreneurial Center in San Francisco, California.
Samuel, let's first talk about Facebook itself because this -- correct me if I'm wrong, this was broadcast on Facebook live, the live streaming
capability within Facebook, right? So what is Facebook doing about this video?
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN MONEY BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: That's correct, Hala. Just to make the distinction, you can upload a video after you finish
recording it. But this was actually broadcast live, as you were saying, as this was happening, the aftermath of this attack.
This is really worst case scenario or near worst case scenario for these tech companies. They have planned that something like this could happen,
but this is really on the far side. It only could have been worse if the actual killing had happened on Facebook.
Now Facebook has removed the video. They've removed the page of this man and they say the following in a statement to us. A spokesperson told me a
short time ago, quote, "We are working closely with the French authorities as they deal with this terrible crime. Terrorists and acts of terrorism
have no place on Facebook.
Whenever terrorist content is reported, we remove it as quickly as possible. We treat take-down requests by law enforcement with the highest
Just so let you know how this works, Hala. Basically they depend on the community, users like you and me to flag up this content. Then it goes to
a Facebook team somewhere in the world. They now have teams around the clock, around the world.
Only after someone like you or me has flagged the content, then it comes down. The problem is, of course, once we've seen it, it's already been out
there for some people, if not many people to see.
GORANI: I remember when we reported that horrible -- it was a periscope video of a young woman who committed suicide.
[15:50:05]She was broadcasting live and of course, we showed only a very short snippet of it, but it really highlights the fact that now, with all
these live streaming capabilities online and on your phone, that it just opens this up to misuse. What else have we seen similar to this in some of
these streaming devices?
BURKE: It is really quite interesting, because here in Silicon Valley, this is really the talk of the town, the ability to use this technology.
They're investing hundreds of millions of dollars in it and it is really being celebrated as a big move here in San Francisco.
On the flip side, the case that you've talk about. We also saw a live stream of an alleged rape. We've seen all these types of videos. So
they're starting to see the flip side of this.
Also what I am hearing from every expert with whom I speak is that they expect for this to become the new normal. They don't think that there is
any way to combat it in its entirety.
Yes, the videos can come down after they are already out but their big concern prior to today, and now this is really coming to fruition, is that
groups, terrorist groups, individuals, lone wolf attacks will continue to use this type of technology and they'll mimic other people's behavior
because it guarantees that the video will get out there.
GORANI: All right, Samuel Burke in San Francisco, thanks very much.
Well, it is just nine days until Britain goes to the polls to decide whether to stay in the European Union or leave the European Union. And as
you can see behind me, one major tabloid newspaper has come out strongly in favor of Britain leaving.
"The Sun," one of Britain's biggest selling dailies says a vote to leave is, quote, "a vote for a better Britain. Believe in Britain." That comes
as polls show an increasing lead for the "leave" campaign.
Although polling companies took a hit to their reputation after some pretty poor performances in the 2015 election and also the Scottish referendum,
they weren't extremely accurate there.
There will be a lot more on the upcoming referendum at the top of the hour on "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS." He's live in Cambridge in just a few minutes'
Coming up next, they survived the horror at the Pulse Nightclub, and then turned to save the people around them. We'll have the stories of the
heroes from that night. We'll be right back.
GORANI: For the people who lost friends and loved ones in the mass shooting in Orlando, the pain is still very, very raw. As we remember the
victims, we also want to give a nod to those who risked their own lives to save others. Randi Kaye has that.
RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He was spinning records when bullets started to fly. Ray Rivera, otherwise known as Deejay
Infinite, had just started playing reggae music.
RAY RIVERA, ORLANDO SHOOTING SURVIVOR: I just heard the shots getting closer and closer. At that point I was like, all right, it is time to go.
KAYE: Time to go, but he wasn't alone. He was hold up behind his deejay booth, along with another man and a woman. The man took off running, but
the deejay helped the woman escape, unharmed.
RIVERA: The girl was down there panicking so I kind of told her she needed to be quiet and as soon as there was a break in the shots, then I kind of
just pushed her and said come on, let's go.
KAYE: When the shooting started, Josh McGill ran outside. Then, more shots and screams so he took cover underneath a car.
[15:55:10]That's when a stranger, this man named Rodney Sumter, began stumbling toward him covered in blood. Josh pulled him behind the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had multiple gunshot wounds. One in each arm. So I took my shirt off, tied it around one arm as high as I could. Took off his
shirt, tied it around his other arm.
KAYE: The man had been shot in the back, too. Josh applied pressure on that wound all the way to the hospital in the ambulance. He talked to
Rodney to keep him conscious, telling him God has got this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was mainly scared. I was like, God, please, don't let me break my promise.
KAYE: Rodney Sumter is alive and recovering. Chris Hanson thought the sound of gunfire was part of the music until he realized a gunman had
entered the club. He hit the ground, then crawled to safety across the street.
CHRISTOPHER HANSON, ORLANDO SHOOTING SURVIVOR: Most people was just blood everywhere. I was helping somebody because he was laying down. I wasn't
sure if he was dead or alive. I was like, hey, are you alive. Are you OK?
KAYE: The man Chris says was named Junior.
HANSON: I took my bandana off and put it in a knot and I shoved it in the bullet hole that was in his back. I was like talk to me, stay with me. I
was holding pressure down like it is OK.
KAYE: This woman also jumped in to help. Her friend, a nightclub employee, was bleeding badly.
JEANETTE MCCOY, ORLANDO SHOOTING SURVIVOR: My only instinct was to help everybody else around me. I saw my buddy, Juan, was the bartender. First
thing I do is I see his wound and I take off my shirt and I just tie my shirt around his leg to stop the bleeding.
KAYE: This medical student stayed around to help, too, instead of running for his life. Carlos Rosario saved one man who fell to the floor on his
CARLOS ROSARIO, ORLANDO SHOOTING SURVIVOR (via telephone): I realized he was hit. He had a gunshot wound to his back. I held pressure on his wound
for about 20 minutes or so and still checking in with him, keeping his conscious.
KAYE: He also helped a woman who had been shot in the hand even using his own cell phone to call the woman's mom so her daughter could speak to her.
ROSARIO: It was so heartbreaking because even though she was saying those messages, I didn't want to her give up and I didn't want her mom to give up
on her. I didn't want them so say their last goodbyes.
KAYE: In the faces of hate, heroes emerged. Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.
GORANI: You always have those heroic actions during very, very difficult times such as that massacre in Orlando. Those were just some of them.
This has been THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. I'm Hala Gorani. Thanks for watching. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next.