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Gunman Called Local TV Producer; Gun Control Discussion; Gator Snatches Toddler in Orlando; Shooter's Profile. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired June 15, 2016 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:30:00] SCOTTIE NEIL HUGHES, POLITICS EDITOR, REIGHTALERT.COM: That are here in the United States. We don't know what's being taught in these mosques. We don't know what's being taught in these communities. We don't know what is being told to these people that are encouraging them to do these actions. Eighty-six people in America, Americans, have died since Barack Obama went into office at the hands of Islamic terrorists here at home. Nothing -- no solution has been proposed yet to stop that.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And, Tracy, I just --

TRACY SEFL, CLINTON SUPPORTER: (INAUDIBLE) on that. First of all, for Donald Trump --

COSTELLO: Go ahead.

SEFL: First of all, for Donald Trump, this espousing of racism does not constitute a plan. What he is saying would not stop a single terrorist. If anything, he's only stoking fears in this country. Moreover, if you listen to what President Obama said in the first half of his powerful and angry remarks yesterday, he was providing a complex overview of many of the successes that he has had in this fight again terror. And, finally, with the primaries now behind us, Hillary Clinton is in a position to bring together Democrats and continue to push, as we would like, for these measures on gun control. Why would you be on a no-fly list, but be able to buy a gun? These simple and practical measures are things that she is committed to pushing through and she has the support of her -- of her voters.

COSTELLO: I have to leave it there. Scottie Neil Hughes, Tracy Sefl, thanks to you both.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, it's the loophole that bothers some gun shop employees. You heard Tracy talking about. People flagged by the government, barred from flying, but still allowed to purchase weapons, even semi-automatic weapons. We're talking about the terror gap, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:35:58] COSTELLO: We have breaking news to share with you right now on the Orlando terror attack. A source now confirming to CNN the shooter called a local TV producer during the attack.

Jim Sciutto has details on that.

So in the middle of the shooting, not only did he call 911, but he called a television station?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Our justice team confirming that this was the other call. We had heard that there was another call he made from inside the club as the shooting was underway. We can now confirm, based on local law enforcement, that it was to a local TV station.

Now, that local TV station, they have said, there's a whole interview with the producer, said that during that call he identified himself as the shooter. First, beginning by asking the station, do you know what's going on down at the Pulse Nightclub and then saying I'm the shooter. So -- so you have this other kind of call for attention really while the attack was underway. As you know, he called 911, we reported that earlier, and identified himself as the shooter and said he's doing it for ISIS. Now you have him calling local media, right, to, in effect, get more attention for what he was -- what he was doing there.

COSTELLO: So did he want to be put on the air live? What did he want from this television station?

SCIUTTO: According to the station, he didn't ask for that. It was a very relatively short call. He was just calling to make sure they knew, right? So as you gain that out, here's someone who not only wanted law enforcement to know that he was doing this for ISIS, but he wanted the news media here to cover what he was doing.

COSTELLO: And what did the television station do with that information? Did they call -- they didn't air it, obviously. They called police?

SCIUTTO: My understanding, based on their own account, is that this was not live on the air. It was a phone call just to -- jut to a telephone at the station that someone picked up.

COSTELLO: So -- just so strange he did that.

SCIUTTO: And it adds to this further profile of, you know, why does someone do this? There are a whole host of explanations, right? But, you know, that demand for attention adds to a number of things, both his psychological profile, but his desire to carry out a catastrophic, spectacular attack for a terror group.

COSTELLO: Jim Sciutto, thank you so much.

All right, the -- the attack in Orlando reigniting the debate over who can legally purchase guns. A new report found nine out of ten people on the terror watch list who wanted to buy a gun were able to buy a gun.

So let's talk about why this is. I'm joined by CNN's senior law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes. And on the phone, gun rights advocate Larry Pratt.

Welcome to both of you. Tom, I'll start with you. Nine out of ten people on the terror watch list were able to buy a gun. What does law enforcement think of the so-called terror gap?

TOM FUENTES, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, for law enforcement, you know, they're enforcing the laws that we have, including the constitutional laws that we have. And, you know, many authorities have said that because we have an amendment, a constitutional amendment, the Second Amendment, that gives citizens the right to purchase and possess firearms, that that pretty much, you know, requires that you have a conviction or someone judged mentally ill before you can deny them the right to buy an arm -- buy arms. Now, our founding fathers negligently did not include the right to fly on an airplane, and so that's not a constitutionally protected right to fly, but owning a firearm is, unless these other factors kick in.

COSTELLO: So, Tom, as just a law enforcement officer, is it disturbing to you that people on the terror watch list can buy a gun or is it OK by you?

FUENTES: You know, as a law enforcement officer, a lot of things are disturbing. The fact that anyone can still buy an assault rifle in this country and run around with extended magazines and commit these kind of acts, which has led to law enforcement having to go to militarization. You noticed in the attack the other night, the police officer's helmet that had a bullet hole in it that saved his life, that's a military helmet. That's a Kevlar helmet issued to our troops going to war. Used a bobcat, you know, an armored vehicle, to penetrate the walls of that place. So they were making use of the $65 million in grant money provided by the Department of Homeland Security, which helped them have the military type equipment they needed to deal with this attack.

[09:40:18] COSTELLO: All right, so, Larry, this question is for you. A survey by Every Town USA, that is a pro-gun safety group, so I want to make that clear, it's found that 76 percent of gun owners say people on the terror watch list should not be able to buy guns. I also want you to listen to what a gun shop manager here in Orlando told me. I asked him, I said, do you think that people on the terror watch list should be able to purchase a -- purchase a gun of any type? And this is what he told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Does that bug you?

HECTOR PAGAN, MANAGER, UNIVERSAL WEAPONS: It -- yes. I'm going to be honest with you, yes, it does, because if you are -- if you're on a watch list, where you can't even fly, you shouldn't be able to buy a firearm or any type of weapon for that matter. I do believe that.

COSTELLO: Do you think you're unusual in your line of business in thinking that way?

PAGAN: I don't know. But I -- honestly, they are -- there are things that we should be talking about, and, you know, when it comes to firearms ownership. I'm a gun owner myself, and it bothers me when somebody is reckless, because it gives other gun owners a bad reputation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:45:45] COSTELLO: All right, I am back. Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. I want to apologize for our technical difficulties, but it's very, very hot and humid out here and I think our equipment simply overheated and we had to get a back-up generator in place. So we're back up on the air and I apologize to Larry Pratt and Tom Fuentes. I think that it is an important conversation to have about people on the terror watch list being able to buy guns, and we will again have that conversation in the days to come, in the hours to come on CNN.

But right now I do have a bit of breaking news to share about that terrible gator attack at a resort in Florida, a Disney resort. Boris Sanchez has some new information for you this morning.

What can you tell us, Boris?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, we're still waiting to find out about the whereabouts of this toddler. But just in the past few moments, Walt Disneyworld Resort officials tell CNN that they are actually shutting down all the beaches on the Walt Disneyworld Resort here in Orlando. It is an expansive, giant property. And they say that out of an abundance of caution they're going to shut down all the beaches on the property, just to be sure that their patrons and their guests feel safe.

This is really an extreme move in terms of caution because not only are people not allowed to swim on these beaches, but this kind of gator attack is extremely rare. We had Jeff Corwin on earlier who was talking about how as more people move to Florida, essentially developments kind of encroach onto their natural habitat. And it's extremely difficult to keep gators out of even man-made lagoons, especially one like this, that is connected through a series of canals, through other large bodies of fresh water. So it's not uncommon to see gators in Florida, but having one -- animals that are very typically shy, having one come that close to a human and attack it is extremely rare.

So, again, Walt Disneyworld taking a very serious step to try to make its guests and patrons feel safe by shutting down all the beaches here to ensure, taking that extra step to ensure that something like this does not happen again.

COSTELLO: All right, Boris Sanchez reporting live for us this morning. We'll get back to you when you have new information. Thanks so much.

Back to the terror attack here in Orlando.

With each passing hour we spend here, we're getting a clearer picture of the chaos that unfolded in the moments after gunfire began ringing out inside the Pulse Nightclub. CNN's Brooke Baldwin was exclusively allowed near the scene of the massacre. She talked with one of the first responders there and she's with me this morning. Good morning.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. You know, it's been extraordinary hearing these different survivor stories. We heard from some people also at the hospital yesterday. But now I really wanted to take a moment to talk to first responders, and especially firefighters. I talked to this lieutenant who allowed us actually in that area right around early evening yesterday. And he wanted to show me exactly what happened as Fire Station Five, which is, by the way, about 300 feet away from this nightclub, describe, you know, first initially getting the calls, multiple shots. You know thought maybe that would be just a few people. Heard the shots from within this Fire Station Five. And suddenly, in the wee hours of Sunday morning, it became a makeshift triage area. You can imagine just the -- ultimately the gruesome scene as though some of the walking wounded came to the fire station, to a bagel shop across the street. I mean when you talk about heroism, this fire department here in Orlando exemplifies that. Here is what he told me happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: We're standing in front of your fire station. Explain to me that night. So you start hearing the shots. And the first thing you saw was what, people running --

LT. DAVIS ODELL, JR., FIRE LIEUTENANT: People running across the street, just screaming and running.

BALDWIN: Screaming and running that way?

ODELL: That way. Just running away from the building. The Pulse is less than 300 feet up there and they were just running for their lives.

BALDWIN: And then show me -- so here's the front of the fire station. And people were brought in, into -- inside?

ODELL: Eventually, they were brought inside. But we had groups of people hiding and groups of people seeking cover behind that wall right there.

BALDWIN: People were hiding from the club?

ODELL: Yes.

BALDWIN: Behind that brick wall?

ODELL: Yes, they were behind that wall right there. And rightly so. They were trying to get anything between them and the bullets. So --

BALDWIN: Wow.

ODELL: You know, the firing was constant and, you know, it just kind of -- it's kind of sick to think about it, but each time he's shooting, he's shooting somebody in there. And what's more, you know, going about his business as methodically as he was at a gun range. I won't forget the steady pow, pow, pow. I mean this guy was deliberate about his business in what he was doing. (INAUDIBLE) --

[09:50:23] BALDWIN: And you heard it from here?

ODELL: Oh, absolutely. As soon as I stepped into the bay, I could hear the gunshots. And I go, this is not going to be a disagreement where I'm going to end it by shooting somebody. This was, as we've seen.

BALDWIN: So as people are running that way and are seeking shelter at your fire station, then you decide to send first responders and medics to the bagel shop?

ODELL: Yes. Right across there where that parking lot is over there, they were bringing the victims behind Einstein and putting them there. That put the building between them and the Pulse.

BALDWIN: As a protective barrier.

ODELL: Right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Lieutenant Odell, 35 years as a firefighter. You know, you train and you train and you train, but never, ever, ever in a million years would think you'd find yourself in this sort of situation. He is a father, and so he did quickly share with me his text to his wife in the thick of it all essentially saying, do not let the kids, when they wake up Sunday morning, to turn on the television because of what happened right here.

Carol.

COSTELLO: And you're going to have much more on your show later this afternoon.

BALDWIN: Yes. Yes. Carol, thank you.

COSTELLO: Brooke Baldwin, thank you so much.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, new twists in understanding the killer's motive. What witnesses saw and heard during the attack that's raising new questions about his ties to radical extremism.

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:56:10] COSTELLO: The more we learn about the Orlando kill, the more confusing we know what was -- how his brain worked. It's just confusing. Conflicting reports are now swirling around his jihadist claims, his mental health, and even his sexuality. Much of what we're learning is coming right from his victims. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATIENCE CARTER, SURVIVOR: Everybody could hear, who was in the bathroom who survived, could hear him talking to 911 saying that the reason why he's doing this is because he wants America to stop bombing his country.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: You heard that clearly?

RICHARD AIKEN, SURVIVOR: Yes, that he pledged allegiance to ISIS, and that -- that we were bombing his people and that we needed to stop. He told everyone in the -- in the stall that he had no problem with black people. He had no problem with black people. And he even referenced the South Carolina shooting at the church.

NORMAN CASIANO, SURVIVOR: Once he shot him, he laughed.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: The gunman laughed?

CASIANO: Yes. And that's something that's imprinted in my head for the rest of my life.

ANGEL COLON, SURVIVOR: This person had to be heartless, heartless, ruthless. It's -- I don't know how you could do something like this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: With me now is Robi Ludwig, the psychotherapist and author of "Till Death Do Us Part."

Welcome and thank you for being with me this morning, Robbie.

So the latest information we learned --

ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Thanks for having me.

COSTELLO: Thank you for being here.

The latest information we learned about this killer is that he called into a local television station while he was inside the Pulse club shooting people. What does that tell you about him?

LUDWIG: Well, it tells me -- when they've done profile of lone wolves, they're hard to profile, but what they have found is that they tend to have personality disorders and depression. So here's somebody who certainly wanted to make a name for himself. This killer's idols were famous for killing Americans in large numbers. So this is something that is religiously driven, politically driven. He clearly was radicalized. But he liked the idea of getting some fame for this for sure.

COSTELLO: So he said to the victims inside the club, you know, I'm not going to shoot African-Americans because they've been through enough, yet he chose Latin night at the Pulse Nightclub to carry out the carnage. It just seems like mixed messages to me.

LUDWIG: Well, you know, for somebody who's radicalized, basically they dehumanize anybody they consider is a nonbeliever. So we really don't know enough about this man to know who he considered nonbelievers. But in general, these radicalized individuals feel that nonbelievers are deserving of death, deserving of punishment. So who he considered in that grouping, it's a little bit unknown at this point because he's not here to tell us.

COSTELLO: Well, if you could give us your best guess about what really drove him to do this. Is that even possible?

LUDWIG: Well, I think what drove him -- there -- there obviously was some conflict that got him to be a radicalized individual, and I would also look very much at the relationship between the killer and his father. I mean the killer had a father who was supporting the Taliban, which supports sharia law, which is a very punitive law that believes in killing people who don't follow the rules exactly as they're set out to be, I guess, followed. And so his anger got to a point.

But this is somebody really who was expressing signs of anger and anti-American sentiment with violence for a very long time. His high school friends describe this man as enjoying 9/11 and what happened. So the seeds were certainly in the making for a very long time.

[10:00:04] COSTELLO: All right, Robi Ludwig, thanks for your insight.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.