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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Gator Snatches Toddler; Shooter Made Phone Calls During Attack. 12-12:30p ET

Aired June 15, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:15] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Hello, everyone. I'm Chris Cuomo. We are live in Orlando and we are following two stories here. First is the major one, what happened just over my shoulder. It's been four days and still every hour brings new information and new heartache related to the Pulse Nightclub massacre. The terrorist hate crime perpetrated here that took more lives than any other gun event in American history. Forty-nine people lost their lives. So many families, so many more had their lives changed forever. But there are new leads, new details, and new faces and stories of survivors, as well as the victims. So, today, we're going to give you more of what we understand the investigation to be about.

But then another story broke here in Orlando and at Walt Disneyworld, which, of course, we've been talking about with the murderer here casing that joint. This family from Nebraska is sitting there enjoying their vacation, you know, Disneyworld, the happiest place on earth. They're near the lagoon. The toddler - they have two kids. The toddler leaves and is walking just at the water line, right by the lagoon. He's not out there swimming. Nothing crazy like that. All of a sudden, an alligator comes out of nowhere, grabs the toddler. The father runs over, tries to get his child back, and then watches as this gator disappears into the lagoon.

Our colleagues, CNN's Boris Sanchez is there. He's been there this morning after his excellent coverage. He's also been doing to help us out here in Orlando with the nightclub massacre.

We're waiting on a press conference from the sheriff, Boris. What's your latest understanding? We had heard from authorities, hope against hope, a miracle of a rescue, but really, it seems like, a recovery.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's absolutely right, Chris. As every moment passes, it becomes more and more - the odds just become more and more against this two-year-old toddler. I'm actually watching sheriff's deputies right now. They're about to walk to the podium at any minute.

What I can tell you at the last press briefing at 6:30 this morning, they told us that this was still a search and rescue effort. They had not given up hope that they were going to find this young boy alive. But when we asked them, based on history, based on the typical behavior of alligators, based on what you've seen before, has there been a case where a child this young has been missing for this long, more than 12 hours now, and survived an attack from an alligator? And they struggled to answer that question. As you said, the odds are mounting against the child.

You described it perfectly. This family was on vacation, what's supposed to be the happiest place on earth. On this beach, Alligator comes out of nowhere. The father and mother panic. They wrestle with the alligator. Then the authorities are called. Boats come in. They're equipped with sonar. They have divers. They also have helicopters. They're using infrared cameras. There's an alligator trapper on the scene. So there are a lot of resources dedicated to trying to find the child. The problem was, it was too dark. They were hoping that at daytime the odds would be in their favor. Unfortunately, hasn't been the case so far.

We can also tell you that they removed four alligators from that single lagoon and they're analyzing them now. So far there's been no indication that those four alligators were involved in this attack.

As you can see behind me, officials are now walking to the podium. Hopefully they have some kind of news for us. They're giving no indication that they know the whereabouts of the child, but we will wait and see what they have to say -

CUOMO: All right.

SANCHEZ: As the sheriff here of Orange County approaches the podium.

I'll go back to you, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Boris. Let's take the presser right now and see if there's any new information.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will be our sheriff, Jerry Demings, and followed by executive director of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, Nick Wiley.

Sheriff Demings.

SHERIFF JERRY DEMINGS, ORANGE COUNTY, FLORIDA: OK. Good afternoon to all of you. Thank you for being here.

We want to share some updates with you regarding this particular operation.

This is a tough situation. I want all of you to think about this for a moment, those of you who have children or grandchildren or what have you. I just happen to have a two-year-old grandson. And so, for me, this is a very human experience that we're talking about where we're dealing with this family now who, there's no question, will lose a two-year-old child.

It has been now about 15 hours since the child was taken into the water by the alligator. So we know that we are working on recovering the body of the child at this point. And so on behalf of everyone that is engaged in this effort, our ultimate goal is to try to bring some closure to the family by recovering their loved one.

[12:05:07] We have in excess of 50 personnel from the Orange County Sheriff's Office alone that is working on this recovery effort. We're going to be here throughout, but we're also concurrently doing this investigation along with FWC. Their executive director has traveled here from Tallahassee. Mr. Nick Wiley is here. He will be speaking to you momentarily.

I have received phone calls from the governor of the state of Florida, Rick Scott, about this effort, the mayor of our county, and we have also spoken with various Disney executives. I will tell you that Disney is doing everything that they can to make the family comfortable during this ordeal.

As we have been dealing with this tragedy for the last few hours, I will tell you that it is somewhat of a complicated operation that we have going because this is a manmade body of water. It is a sizable body of water. And it has certain systems built in the waterway. My divers have been in the water today and at an appropriate time they may be back in the water. We have our marine units out on the lake. They're using sonar equipment to see if they can locate the body as well.

In addition to that, I'm going to ask, again, the executive director for FWC to come up and share with you some of the things that they're doing with this concurrent operation.

Mr. Nick Wiley.

NICK WILEY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, FLORIDA FISH & WILDLIFE: Thank you, sheriff.

First, let me say that the cooperation and support from the Orange County Sheriff's Department has been amazing. They have been here and really doing everything in their power. We have provided support. We have vessels on the scene with people out on the water. We have about a dozen officers and we also have brought in some experience alligator trappers who know how to go out and find alligators.

Again, I think you know that there's no real update on what we found so far. We're still going as hard as we can. And we're still hopeful that we'll be able to help this family find closure. And, again, our thoughts and prayers are with this family.

Also, Governor Scott called me also this morning to express his concerns and express his sympathies for this family as well. And he's very much engaged in this process as we go forward.

That's all I have.

QUESTION: What are the odds of this happening, sir, Mr. Wiley?

DEMINGS: I can - what I can tell you is that Disney has operated here now for 45 years and they've never had this type of thing happen before. Remember, this is - it is Florida and alligators are indigenous to this region of the country. But I want to reiterate that Disney has a wildlife management system

that is in place and they have worked diligently to ensure that their guests are not unduly exposed to the wildlife here in this area.

QUESTION: Sheriff, talk - sheriff, what brought you to the conclusion this - the conclusion to say that the young boy - there is no way he has survived?

DEMINGS: Well, we're 15 hours in and there were eyewitnesses here who certainly saw the child taken under the water and what have you. We know that that happened and it certainly is not survivable at this point for him to have been submerged for this period of time. So we know that this is a recovery effort at this point.

QUESTION: Sheriff (INAUDIBLE) taken by Disney with this alligator still out?

DEMINGS: Well, I can tell you that this is certainly very concerning to Disney. You all are very aware that Disney made a decision to close their other beach type properties and I believe that that's nine different properties in terms of the beach at the different resort areas. And that was done with an abundance of caution to ensure that we can continue our operation without the interference of other watercraft that may be out on the - on the waterways and also to make certain that other guests are not unduly exposed to something.

(CROSS TALK)

QUESTION: What is the - what is the likelihood that with (ph) protocols in place that requires Disney or anyone really with gators in this (INAUDIBLE) proximity (INAUDIBLE) where are they relocated to?

DEMINGS: I would say the question here is in terms of the wildlife management, if you will. Disney has full-time staff that works with FWC. So I'm going to ask the executive director from FWC to kind of fill you in on how they work with Disney in that regard.

[12:10:14] WILEY: Disney has been very proactive with regard to dealing with alligators and has - as the sheriff said, full-time staff observing these waters. They have essentially an open system permit where anytime they see an alligator that - or a complaint is called in, that it can be taken out. And these alligators are not relocated. These alligators have to be euthanized because when they become a problem, that if you move them somewhere, you're just moving a problem. So Disney does everything by the book and they have an amazing program for keeping track of and monitoring and then addressing any concerns that arise.

QUESTION: How many gators have been euthanized?

QUESTION: When was the last time that happened? When's the last time that happened where a gator was (INAUDIBLE)?

WILEY: They - they - they have - they've taken out - routinely taken out alligators in the lakes in the - in the property at large, but I don't know. I haven't heard of any taken out recently. But they have taken alligators out.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) that say they've been chased by an alligator just a few weeks ago. (INAUDIBLE) same stretch of water. Can you tell us any more about that?

WILEY: I'm not aware of that report.

DEMINGS: There was no report made to the Orange County Sheriff's Office regarding a family in this area (INAUDIBLE).

(CROSS TALK)

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) put into place that could have prevented an attack like this? Is there signage or anything that warns (INAUDIBLE) alligators there?

DEMINGS: In terms of signage, there's signage in this immediate area that says no swimming allowed essentially. That's the signing that is available in this area and the other resort areas at this time.

(CROSS TALK)

QUESTION: This alligators can migrate -

QUESTION: How long will this go on?

DEMINGS: The question is, how long will we continue to search? We're going to continue to search until we find the body. Hopefully that will be today, but if it has to extend beyond that, we will do that as well.

(CROSS TALK)

QUESTION: Mr. Wiley - Mr. Wiley - Mr. Wiley, what is there to prevent the alligator from coming in?

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) how many have been euthanized at this point?

DEMINGS: Is there anything being done -

QUESTION: Any underwater fencing in that lake to prevent the alligator from getting in through the waterways and whatnot?

WILEY: Well - well, I'm not aware of any fencing or structures, but it wouldn't have been effective. Alligators can move across land and under the water. So fencing is just not a feasible option.

(CROSS TALK)

QUESTION: Alligators can migrate (INAUDIBLE) - alleviators can migrate to that area, why is there no type of signage? Just - as a wildlife official, tell us, if they can migrate there, why are there no signs -

WILEY: Well, I'm not assuming there's no signage. We're still - it's still early in this process and we're still working (INAUDIBLE).

QUESTION: Mr. Wiley, has any more alligators been euthanized?

QUESTION: The last time (INAUDIBLE) last time we spoke. What's that number at right now? Have you located any more gators?

WILEY: One more alligator's been found without any - without any additional.

(CROSS TALK)

QUESTION: Many people (INAUDIBLE) come here every year. What you do - you do (INAUDIBLE) the danger (INAUDIBLE) here?

WILEY: I'm not sure I understand the question.

DEMINGS: Not sure what the question was.

QUESTION: What do you (INAUDIBLE).

DEMINGS: What - I guess the question is, what do we do to improve security. Again, we - Disney has a very active wildlife management system that is designed to remove any potential threats.

We'll - what we're going to do also, in terms of giving you another update, we anticipate that there will be another briefing at - somewhere around 6:00 p.m. today, if not before. If there's new developments, we'll do it before then. And that time, we will likely also identify the family that is involved. We are being sensitive to the needs of the family in terms of them being allowed to notify the other family members. We do not want them to hear or read about it from the media, if you will. So we'll do that at that time.

(CROSS TALK)

QUESTION: Mr. Wiley - Mr. Wiley, can you address - can you address tourists and coming close to gators and how they become so comfortable around people, especially if they're fed.

WILEY: Absolutely. The question about - as you interact with alligators, if they're fed, what does that mean? It really means that the alligators can lose their fear of people and we - that's against the law in Florida. And we encourage - we have a lot of information if you go to myfwc.com, we have information about alligators and how to be safe around alligators. The story here is this is a tragedy and it's terrible, but it's a rare occurrence. And, fortunately, it doesn't happen that often. And we are doing everything we can to make sure it doesn't ever happen again.

(CROSS TALK)

QUESTION: Is this from (ph) a gator that had been fed and had been around people?

WILEY: It's really too early to speculate. I'd hate to go there because there's so many variables at play here and we just don't know.

(CROSS TALK) QUESTION: Nick, can you talk about whether or not - I mean is this a tourist area where children are playing all the time. This is in an area where we should have, you know, children playing there, you know, accessible, but it's close the (INAUDIBLE).

(CROSS TALK)

[12:15:19] DEMINGS: Well, some of that, we really can't get into now. There is an active investigation that is going on. The investigation itself is going to help us answer some of the questions that you've asked.

What we're going to do at this time, for those of you who have Spanish speaking media, we're going to transition to my media relations captain, Captain Angelo Nievez (ph), and he will be glad to respond to the questions in Spanish.

Captain Angelo Nievez.

QUESTION: Sheriff, is there (ph) a criminal investigation?

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) alligators -

QUESTION: Is that a criminal investigation?

CUOMO: All right, the press conference is breaking up right now.

Let's get back to Boris Sanchez.

Boris, you were able and able to hear everything that's being said. The headlines we've been putting on the screen, they haven't found the child. What other necessary details did we get there from what they're doing and what their concerns are?

SANCHEZ: Chris, I think the important thing to take from this is a change in approach. Earlier, at about 6:30 this morning we heard that this was still a search and rescue operation. They had not given up hope that they were going to find the child alive. At this point, the sheriff came out and said that this family is now looking for closure. That they do not expect to find the two-year-old child alive. There were just so many factors that could have gone in to keeping them from finding him still doing well. You consider not only the alligator attack, but being out in the water overnight, the water potential, potential swimming ability of the child. So there's the odds of finding him alive are slim to none at this point and the sheriff came out and essentially acknowledged that. he also said that Disney is doing everything that they can to comfort the family.

He went a step further. There were a lot of questions about Disney as, frankly, there should be as to what they can do to try to prevent this from happening again, as to whether or not enough was done to prevent this from happening at all. The response was that Disney has been here in central Florida for more than 45 years. Nothing like this has happened before. He mentioned that Disney has an expansive wildlife management program and that they've had to remove alligators from lagoons before. So it's not something that is necessarily uncommon to the company. But, obviously, again, the sad news being that now it is a search and recovery effort. Now the effort is to bring closure to the family instead of still trying to keep hope alive, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Boris, you know, and from the outside, this sounds like a relatively simple task for the investigators and fish and wildlife. It's a lagoon. You're there at premises at Disney. Find the kid.

SANCHEZ: And it's not.

CUOMO: We're just putting it up on the screen. It's a big body of water. It's very deep in different places. And, you know, they're looking for a relatively small human being here, this toddler. So they've got their work cut out for them. They've been looking for over 13 hours now. We'll stay with them as they give us the updates.

But I want to bring in Jeff Corwin right now. We all know him. He's from ABC's "Ocean Mysteries."

And, Jeff, just to be clear, there's a lot of media in town right now because of this horrific terror attack that happened over my shoulders. So there's a lot of media covering what's going on with this search for this child as well. And that's giving it an intensity. But when we followed up with fish and wildlife, you know, the question was, just to be clear, what are we dealing with here? Are you dealing with a lot of gator attacks now? Is there a dealing with an - you know, an increased population? And they said, no, no, no. And, in fact, to see a gator this size, four to six feet, it's place at by people who were nearby the attack, they say that's really rare for them to attack a human being. All of this is very rare. So give us a context for that.

JEFF CORWIN, ANIMAL EXPERT: Chris, the Florida wildlife service is absolutely correct. By the way, they are the experts when it comes to this stuff. They have been managing the wildlife successfully in Florida for generations. And so has Disney. Again, this is nothing new to them of having alligators on their property and they have a very powerful, well-structured system in place to manage this. And it is very unusual for alligators to attack people and even more unusual of an alligator based on the size that we've been told to be predatory.

CUOMO: So this is all just really random and horrible. And we will continue to monitor it and try and see if this family gets some closure. I mean, at this point, that's what we're all holding out hope for here.

Jeff, thank you very much. I'll check back with you to there's anything that requires your expertise. Thanks for helping us about this.

All right, now, obviously, we're monitoring the situation with the search for this kid, but we're here because of what happened in Orlando at this club over my shoulder. And we do have new turns in the investigation. So we want to bring in our national security correspondent, our senior one, Jim Sciutto. You've been monitoring this. There are a lot of different ways that

this investigation has gone. There seems to be a focus on the wife, but there's new information about what this murderer did before and during the night of the shooting. What can you tell us?

[12:20:00] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Right. OK, let's run through the biggest developments.

CUOMO: Please.

SCIUTTO: One of them - one of them an obstacle of the investigation. Our justice team at CNN reporting that they're having trouble exploiting (ph) the shooter's cell phone, which he had with him in there. We know he had it with him in there because he was making phone calls. Because during the siege, that cell phone was - they broke a water main, apparently, and it was covered in water and, of course, blood, because there were many victims around it. So the phone was damaged in some way.

CUOMO: So that's what they meant by biohazard?

SCIUTTO: Well, they did. I mean, initially, we were talking about blood -

CUOMO: OK.

SCIUTTO: But apparently water was also involved. So they're having trouble exploiting that, which, of course, they're very interested in who did he talk to -

CUOMO: Sure.

SCIUTTO: Who did he text, who did he message, what applications he was using, et cetera. That's one thing. But they are making other progress in terms of what he did in the final days and hours before this attack. What kind of sites he looked at. We know that he looked at not just the Pulse Nightclub with his wife present. She took him there in the days leading up to the attack. But also a Disney property here. And we know, of course, we reported this yesterday, they went to Disneyworld Resort in April. You have that.

In addition to that, we know that the wife is now a focus of this investigation because she has told them, though she's cooperating, she's told them that she knew he was thinking about some sort of jihadist attack. She's told them that. But she dissuaded him. She's also told them that she went with him to some of these potential targets, but she says didn't know that they were potential targets.

Listen, interrogators, some of those answers aren't going to add up and that's why they're considering charges. They haven't decided to, but they're considering.

CUOMO: They're waiving that (INAUDIBLE) of a felony, you know -

SCIUTTO: Exactly.

CUOMO: Which is basically, you knew about a crime, a federal crime -

SCIUTTO: And didn't report it.

CUOMO: And didn't tell anyone. Unusual to hear it, but, again, they're using any point of leverage they can.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CUOMO: But we do know that he made a couple of calls -

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CUOMO: While he was there. He certainly made a 911 call. We now know that he called a news station. We now know that he called a friend.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CUOMO: And that's important to investigators for a couple of reasons. One is, it shows - well, we don't know that he called anyone who he was working with in concert or ring leader.

SCIUTTO: Right.

CUOMO: What else does it matter for (INAUDIBLE)?

SCIUTTO: OK. So we now know he called 911 that night, claimed it for ISIS. We learned today he called a news station and said to the producer who picked up the phone, do you know about this attack? Yes, we know about this attack. I'm the shooter. You know, in effect he's saying, come and cover this attack. He wanted the attention.

We also just learned that he called a friend to say good-bye that night as well. So this speaks to his state of mind. He was making plans, right? He wanted to make sure people know - knew who he was doing the attack for, ISIS. He wanted to make sure the media was there. But even personally, he wanted to say good-bye to one friend. That speaks to the mindset, to the planning that he - that he made before the attack.

CUOMO: So that is the specific of what's going on. There's also the general, which is now this conversation around the investigation of, is this a time to look at what the FBI is allowed to do?

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CUOMO: They knew this guy. They had two bites at the apple with him. Not to suggest in any way that they dropped the ball. We have no indication of that. They couldn't make the case. They closed the case. But they knew who he was. And when he went to buy a weapon, they had no authority to do anything to advance on him. Is that getting any traction, that issue?

SCIUTTO: Well, politically, we already know, you've heard, not just a - you have a Democratic senator, Murphy from Connecticut, Chris Murphy, who says he's going to filibuster on the floor talking about this kind of thing and you've started to hear even from some Republican voices that they might consider a ban where if you turn up on some sort of terror watch list that you can't buy a gun, just like the no fly list. So that's on the political realm.

But, you know, there's still legal questions there because, you know, what gets you on the watch list? Is it, if I investigate you and determine, you know what, Chris Cuomo is OK, you're not going to be on the list necessarily. You're not officially on the list. There are a lot of people who have been investigated and they've determined they're not a risk. Of course they made a mistake here. It creates big legal challenges.

CUOMO: A little bit of legal. A lot of political.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CUOMO: And we're going to see it play out that way. Jim, thank you very much.

SCIUTTO: Thank you.

CUOMO: Appreciate it. I'll check in with you in a little bit.

Speaking of the political, Donald Trump just put out a mention that he is going to try to meet with the NRA. He says they endorsed him and he wants to talk to them about exactly what Jim Sciutto was just telling you, that if you're on a list, you should not be able to get a gun. The NRA responded via Twitter saying, we don't think any terrorist should have guns. We just believe in the laws of due process and self- defense. Not really responsive. What will happen next? We'll take you through it.

[12:24:10] Stay with CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right, the implications of what happened here in Orlando playing out in real time in our political process. You're looking at Senator Chris Murphy from Connecticut. He came to public attention after Newtown. He is now filibustering on the floor of the Senate talking about right now to bide time or to extend his time the nature of the Second Amendment. His point of purpose is to exploit the inaction by lawmakers even after what we saw here and in Newtown. That's his point. Let's listen in and see how he makes it.

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D), CONNECTICUT: And this isn't me talking. This is an analysis of domestic terror attacks in the United States by Professor Louis Clavorous (ph) of the University of Massachusetts. He showed that since September 11, 2001, 95 percent of the associated deaths connected with terrorist attacks, with terrorism, were committed with guns.

[12:29:33] And according to a project run by the Department of Homeland Security's Center for Excellence at the University of Maryland, something called the Global Terrorism Database, this is a government database run by the Department of Homeland Security, terrorism attacks in the United States are ten times more likely to result in fatalities when they involve guns than when they do not. Between 1970 and 2014, non-firearm terrorist attacks resulted in deaths 4 percent of the time, whereas 40 percent of the attacks involving firearms resulted in deaths.