Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Fired Trump Campaign Manager Speakers Out. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired June 20, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:00] COREY LEWANDOWSKI, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: And if we put a plan in place with the RNC so that they can have the resources necessary, you know, Mr. Trump could be raising this money for the campaign, but he said, no, I want to give the money to the party. I want to make sure that the party has the resources and the boots on the ground and the data programs and the build-out so that they can be successful. The difference was, four years ago, Romney has his whole team of fundraising and bundlers and the RNC had their whole team of fundraising and bundlers. And when you go into the states, there were two very separate groups of people there. You had the Romney people and you had the RNC people. The difference now is, we're completely integrated. It's a very different model and it's much more efficient than it was four years ago.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: OK. So you're telling me that at the end of the day we're going to see fundraising better than it seems to be now and the infrastructure better. But, actually, before I go to the - another question I'm going to ask, I want to ask about infrastructure because I had reporting that the campaign had 70 people. Other reporting said it was as low as 30. That's nothing. And I know you're saying it's a different world. Donald Trump is different. But, again, I just come back to the fact that this is not a primary campaign. You need to reach hundreds of millions of people, not a small slice of the electorate.

LEWANDOWSKI: Hillary Clinton had 732 people on her payroll at the same time Donald Trump had 70 people on the payroll. We had more votes, almost 14 million votes in the primary, than any other Republican candidate.

BASH: But this is not a primary campaign.

LEWANDOWSKI: I understand. But here's the difference. Her salaries that are covered by their (ph) have to be 10x what our salaries are as a comparison. So what they're doings is they're taking money and spending it on things. We are leaner, meaner, more efficient, more effective, get bigger crowds, get better coverage. That's very important to understand that. And Mr. Trump can go directly to the people and that's not what Hillary has to do.

BASH: So your - is your -

LEWANDOWSKI: They're going to waste millions of dollars on paid advertising which consultants and others are going to make a fortune on. That's not the Trump model.

BASH: But your - so your philosophy is that you should continue to stay lean and mean?

LEWANDOWSKI: No, I think you have to grow, but you have to grow smart and strategic and efficient. Look, if this was the business world, people would be commending Mr. Trump for the way he's run this campaign. That on $50 million, he's beat candidates who have raised three times that. and in Hillary's case and Bernie's case, four and five times that. The difference in politics is, they think that money equates to votes and it's been proven time and time again that the amount of money you spend does not equate to the amount of votes you get.

BASH: Corey, you're painting a very nice picture of the Trump campaign and the state of play. If it was that great, why wouldn't you still be the campaign manager?

LEWANDOWSKI: Look, I'm proud of the campaign. I'm proud of the campaign. I really am. But I also understand the reality of building an infrastructure, coupled with the RNC's 500 people on the ground and all the resources necessary -

BASH: But why couldn't you be the person to do it? Why do you think that you were not the person to do it?

LEWANDOWSKI: Look, I don't know the answer to that. But what I know is -

BASH: What do you think?

LEWANDOWSKI: I know I've had a privilege and an honor of being part of this for the last 18 or 19 months and I have no regrets and I'm - I'm so thankful for this chance. And I know that what I will do moving forward is share my advice of what I know with Mr. Trump and his team if they want it. I' will still chair the New Hampshire delegation to the RNC Convention next month and I can tell you that me and every person that I know will continue to vote for and support Donald Trump in any way possible.

BASH: You're such a good soldier - you're such a good soldier and you're loyalty here is exactly why, one of the main reasons why Mr. Trump kept you on for so long. But you've got to -

LEWANDOWSKI: Well, it's not just - it's not just loyalty. It's a true difference -

BASH: And belief in him. And belief in him. I get that. But I guess my question is, somebody tuning in to watch this might be thinking that they're, you know, on another planet because you're making it seem like everything was really great. And I get that that's your, you know, your instinct because you've been so loyal to him, but it just doesn't make sense in a logical way if things were that great why you would not still be over at Trump Tower.

LEWANDOWSKI: Look, the campaign is moving in the right direction. That's the most important thing. And building out that campaign is something that's very important to do. And I can tell you, again, I'll give any advice I can to the campaign, but at the end of the day, voters are going to have to make a choice. They're going to choose Hillary Clinton or they're going to choose Donald Trump.

BASH: Two more questions.

LEWANDOWSKI: And they've got to choose Trump if they want to save our country.

BASH: Got two more questions. We were talking a lot about structure, but you were also in charge of communications. When Mr. Trump said, this is the speech I'm going to give after Orlando, and he was doubling down on the Muslim ban, and he ended up delivering a speech that was by Republicans almost universally thought what was that and panned (ph)? How involved were you and were you encouraging him to do that?

LEWANDOWSKI: I don't think that's true. I think what he has said and has been given a lot of credit for, stepping up and making a speech immediately after the terrorist attack and calling it what it was, which is radical Islamic terrorism, and you know what, it -

BASH: That's not what I'm talking about.

LEWANDOWSKI: People don't -

BASH: I'm talking -

LEWANDOWSKI: People don't want to understand -

BASH: I'm talking about his policy prescription.

LEWANDOWSKI: I understand. Look -

BASH: But do you - but did you encourage him to do that? Did you say this is right on?

LEWANDOWSKI: Here's what I think. I think we have a problem in the country and it's very clear -

BASH: You're not going to answer my question?

LEWANDOWSKI: No, we have a problem and he's the only one who's going to point it out, whether it's political correctness, it's a problem. Not turning people in because they're afraid that they're going to be accused of being racially profiling. We saw this in San Bernardino and the attacks where the neighbors knew that the people were making bombs on their - in their home but refused to turn them in because they were afraid they were going to be called racial - racial profiling. We have to get away from this. We have to save our country. We have to save our people. If that means turning somebody in, whether - regardless of who they are.

[14:05:08] BASH: So you think that his policy and rhetorical response to Orlando was right? If you were to rewind and you had a time machine, you could do it all over again, would you do it the same way?

LEWANDOWSKI: Well, here's what I think. I think our immigration policies are a disaster, right? What we know is that we can't even vet people coming into this country, whether they're Syrian refugees or they're people coming in from any other country. We can't even do a simple background check. What we know is that the San Bernardino killer came in on a K-1 visa. She was married to an American citizen, but the State Department said, we can't go and look at your FaceBook and social media accounts to determine if you have any jihad terrorists in you. There's something fundamentally wrong with our government that can't do that to protect our own citizens and I think we need to have a better system in place and I think what Donald Trump -

BASH: Can you -

LEWANDOWSKI: Has said is he will fix that system on day one of him becoming the next president of the United States.

BASH: Can you take me behind the scenes also on the - on the comments he made about the judge. You were on the plane. Did you say to him, you know what, Mr. Trump, you might not want to go that far and you might not want to say those this about something that is so explosive, or did you say, right on?

LEWANDOWSKI: No, no. It's not a binary decision. What it comes down to very clearly is, you have a judge in San Diego who has ruled against him on summary judgment, which the case should have been dismissed on. He allowed the lead plaintiff in this case to get out of the case and continued the case, right? There has been time and time and time again, Mr. Trump has over 10,000 people who have provided evaluations saying that this is a great institution. He went out and found scholars from the best institutions to put the courses together and the judge -

BASH: So it sounds like you said right on

LEWANDOWSKI: And the judge refuses to make rulings which are fair and equitable. And that's what we're calling into question is the fairness of this. And so when you have the lead plaintiff asked to be removed from the case, when you have over 10,000 respondents, 98 percent of the people who took those courses responded favorably, whether on video or in a written evaluation, or in some cases both, including some of the plaintiffs in this case, right? What these people want is they want to go after Mr. Trump because they see deep pockets and the judge should have ruled on summary judgment this case be dismissed.

BASH: But that's not about the judge.

LEWANDOWSKI: He's calling into question - he's calling into question his ability to get a fair and honest assessment of the evidence which is presented to them. And I think that's OK to do.

BASH: So you were - did anybody come out a say, you know what - did anybody have a conversation as part of a campaign meeting or anything of that sort saying, you know what, this is probably something he should pull back on and you said, no, no, no, right on, go for it?

LEWANDOWSKI: No, it wasn't a conversation like that. You know, everyone has their opportunity to weigh in on issues and that could be, you know, what we like to call surround sound advocacy, right? Everyone has the opportunity to sit down and have that conversation. At the end of the day, Mr. Trump is the one who makes the final decision.

BASH: You know why I'm asking you these questions because I'm trying to get some specifics about, you know, kind of the - one of the raps on you is that you fed his worst instincts.

LEWANDOWSKI: Look, I think if that's the rap that they want to tell me or put on me, I think what's say to say is, anybody who knows me and has known me over a long period of time knows that I'm a very straight shooter, much to my own detriment on many occasions. I tell people the way it is, whether it's good or bad or indifferent, because I always say I'm not smart enough to lie because I can't remember the lie I told. So what I say is, I'll give you my best opinion, my best recommendation. That's my duty and my obligation to anybody I work for, whether it's Mr. Trump or a different company. All I can do is give my best advice and counsel. It doesn't mean it's right. It doesn't mean it's wrong. But I'm going to give you my best advice. And if my best advice is something you agree with, great. And if you disagree, this's OK, too. And we've had many conversations where Mr. Trump and I have either agreed or disagreed, but it's completely - I don't take it personally. I just give my best advice and that's the job of any good staffer.

BASH: What's your biggest regret?

LEWANDOWSKI: On this campaign? None professionally.

BASH: None?

LEWANDOWSKI: My biggest regret on the campaign -

BASH: That's not even - that's - I mean I know that you're human. There's flesh and blood. You've got to have some regrets.

LEWANDOWSKI: No, my biggest regret on the campaign is not being able to have my family more involved. You know, my family live in New Hampshire. I've got four young children. You know, it's tough on them because they're five and seven and nine years old. They're great ages and they still want me to be around, which is fun. Campaigns are so all-consuming, they're so time consuming, it's difficult to go home and explain what your day was like. That's not a regret at all. That's - I have no regrets as it comes to this campaign. I've been given such an opportunity and a privilege and if somebody would have said to me 18 months ago, you'll be managing the candidate through 37 state victories, 14 million votes, more votes than anyone in the history of the Republican Party, I'd say, is that possible? And look what he's been able to achieve. And I've been a small part of that. So I have no regrets at all.

BASH: And you're still going to be involved in that you are still the head of the New Hampshire delegation. You will be leading the New Hampshire delegation on the floor of the convention.

LEWANDOWSKI: And I will make sure that every delegate there is voting for Donald Trump and every person I know is going to vote for Donald Trump come this November.

BASH: Corey, thank you for doing this.

LEWANDOWSKI: Thank you.

BASH: I really appreciate it. Thank you for your time.

LEWANDOWSKI: Thanks.

BASH: Wolf, back to you.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Dana, thanks very much. Excellent interview.

Let's get some analysis. We've got Gloria Borger with us, Nia-Malika Henderson and Ron Brownstein is with us as well.

[14:10:06] Let's go right to it. What did you think?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I thought Dana asked him every question she needed to ask him and it was as if he was living in an alternate universe, you know, saying he didn't know why he'd been fired and that the campaign had been going well, and that - one thing that did strike me, Wolf, as Dana tried to point out to him, that there is obviously dysfunction in this campaign. He kept on talking about the people who have been here, quote, "from the beginning," right? And it's clear, when he kept saying that, to me, that there was this split between the folks like Corey who had been there from day one, and newer people like Paul Manafort who had been brought on later in the campaign.

He didn't, you know, talk about being relentlessly on message.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: No.

BORGER: I mean he was usually supportive of Donald Trump, saying he can run a different kind of campaign because he can go directly to the people, talking about the support he has in Congress. Even mentioning Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell, whom, as you all know, have not, you know, have said they will support the nominee but have - you know have had difficulty with Trump. So stayed on message -

HENDERSON: Yes.

BORGER: As if he had not just been fired.

BLITZER: And, Ron Brownstein, very important, he kept saying - Dana asked him several times, why were you fired? And he said, I don't know.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

BLITZER: Clearly he knows why he was fired but he didn't want to get into it.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Yes. First of all, they've got to save that tape and play it in journalism school for how to do a respectful but relentless interview. That's right, I think that was - you know, that was - that was a big evasion. But I thought he betrayed the answer with two of the themes that ran through the interview in which he - on two basic issues argued that the approach that worked in the primary would work in the general. At one point he said Donald Trump has had his finger on the pulse of the public in the past 18 - 15, 16, 18 months in a way that no one else has. That has been true for Republican primary electorate. If you look at his overall ratings with the broader general election electorate, it's a much more questionable statement. And the second time Mr. Lewandowski kind of made that argument was when he - when he said, look, as Gloria pointed, that, you know, what we did, the lean and mean primary organization where we go directly to the people, would be what would work, could work again in a general election. And I think in both of those kind of lines of argument from Lewandowski, he kind of showed I think the limitations, even as he displayed, you know, really extraordinary loyalty, showed the limitations and kind of the vision that would help explain why a decision like this was made.

BLITZER: Yes, he did show amazing loyalty to Donald Trump.

HENDERSON: He did. I mean it was almost like listening to Donald Trump, right? I mean he talked about Judge Curiel in the same way, Corey Lewandowski did, as Donald Trump did. He talked about the Muslim ban and the response to Orlando in the same way that Donald Trump did. He talked about not needing infrastructure, running a lean and mean - he also argued essentially that they could win the White House using Twitter and FaceBook. He talked about leading polls in such states like New Jersey, which isn't true. Everything according to Corey Lewandowski is awesome and everything is going his way and the is very much I think the way that Donald Trump has approached this. That nothing has gone wrong. That everything is going according to plan. And I think in some ways he sort of made a case for why he probably shouldn't be there. I mean if he is sort of a mirror up to Donald Trump, then I'm sure Donald Trump probably needs someone to tell him different things about how the campaign is going, be a little bit more critical, because in this interview, I think at some point he called him the best speaker the country has ever seen and it sounds like something that Donald Trump would say about himself.

BLITZER: Say what you will, Gloria, about Donald Trump, he goes ahead and fires someone in such a visible way, an awkward, embarrassing way, yet the person who was fired remains totally loyal to him.

BORGER: Totally loyal. I think, look, it's clear to me from listening to this interview with Dana that - that Corey's loyalty is to Donald Trump. Corey remains loyal to the candidate. I think his problem was with the people who worked for the candidate, or the candidate's family, quite frankly, who disagreed with his strategy and disagreed with his management style. I mean, another point that Dana tried to keep hammering in was his management style, which is abrupt and difficult and I was told this morning, you know, people couldn't get any work done. That it was a - it was a matter of his work product not getting done, the need to expand the campaign. And he denied all of that and said, look, I'm tough and I expect a lot. But, you know, he - he denied every point that Dana was making, which other people - numerous other people have made over the last months about - about Corey. And I think with Trump there was finally a straw that broke the camel's back and it may well have been his daughter and his son-in- law.

BLITZER: Yes. Major political news today. Everyone stand by. We've got to take a quick break. We've got a lot more analysis coming up of Dana's interview with the ousted Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski. Stay with CNN for that. What he says about the Trump inner circle, the state of the campaign. Much more coming up.

[14:15:11] We're also going to bring you the latest on the Orlando mass shooter, what those new 911 transcripts are telling us about the motive of the shooter.

I'll be back 5:00 p.m. Eastern in "The Situation Room." "Newsroom" with Brooke Baldwin will start right after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN on this Monday.

My goodness, the last 25 minutes, we're going to talk all about that interview that my colleague Dana Bash just had with the now former campaign manager of Donald Trump's campaign. He is now out. I'm talking about Corey Lewandowski. He has been fired, ousted, as some of Trump's closest advisors, particularly his family members, put pressure on him to do something about Lewandowski. Moments ago, Lewandowski was sitting right here for about 20 minutes as Dana Bash asked every question in the book.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: From your perspective, what happened? Why were you fired?

LEWANDOWSKI: Yes, I don't know. I don't - I don't know the answer to that. But what I know is what we've been able to achieve in this election cycle has been historic. You know, we had a candidate who in June of last year announced he was going to run for president with no elected office experience in a field of 16 other people in the race, plus him, who's gone on to do something historic, which was get almost 14 million votes and fundamentally change the way people look at politics. And I'm proud to have been a small part of that. And, you know, running as the outsider of this campaign, which he has done, running against the corrupt Washington, D.C. establishment and political correctness has been something I've been proud to be a part of.

[14:20:36] BASH: So you think it was appropriate for Donald Trump to make the change and let you go?

LEWANDOWSKI: What I think is that the voters have a binary decision coming up on election day. They can either vote for Hillary Clinton and her liberal policies or they can put someone in place who's actually going to change Washington. And I will do everything I can to make sure that the latter of those two happens, which means Donald Trump is elected president. If I can do that from inside the campaign, it's a privilege. If I can do that from outside the campaign, that's also a privilege.

BASH: Did Mr. Trump himself call you this morning and say, I don't mean to use this term, but it is the term, you're fired?

LEWANDOWSKI: You know, I had a nice conversation with Mr. Trump and - and I said to him, it's been an honor and a privilege to be a part of this. And I - and I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, we'll postgame that with Dana in a second. But all of this coming amid concerns about the direction of Mr. Trump's campaign heading into the general election cycle against Hillary Clinton and with less than a month to go before the Republican National Convention kicks off in Cleveland. So this really just sort of isn't done. We'll get to Dana in just a second, but let's get first to CNN national correspondent Jason Carroll, who is there outside of Trump Tower.

Jason Carroll, so we heard from Corey Lewandowski. He says to Dana, I don't know why I was fired. What do you know?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, look, I mean, first of all, that was a fascinating interview. I mean you would think anyone in a position like that would know why they were dismissed, why they were fired. So either he's not telling the truth or he clearly just doesn't have a real understanding about his relationship with others within the campaign.

I mean you heard there in the interview he said that he got along with people like Ivanka, got along with her husband Jared. These were two people who were clearly instrumental in his removal. Also people like Paul Manafort, campaign chairman, who he said he worked very well with. But, once again, clearly he did not work so well with some of these people who ended up being instrumental in his removal.

Also, it makes me wonder, you know, when he said that he worked well with the campaign, clearly he's being the good soldier here. I mean this is a man who has been loyal to Donald Trump. Donald Trump has been loyal to him. This is someone who signed on to the campaign very early on. And you remember when he went through that whole controversy, Corey Lewandowski, that whole controversy involving that Breitbart reporter who he allegedly hand manhandled. Donald Trump stood by him and there was pressure at that point to have him removed even then. Donald Trump saying, I just don't get rid of people. So he stood by him at that point.

Very different styles is what we're going to see going forward. You know, we're hearing that Paul Manafort is going to be the one, you know, you know, directing the campaign going forward. His style is one of keeping Donald Trump disciplined. The word is that Corey Lewandowski - and you heard Dana pushing him on that over and over, this point of this being the type of person when's basically pushing Donald to be more like himself out on the campaign trail. Clearly this is something that worked during the primary. Not a strategy that is working going forward. Brooke.

BALDWIN: Jason Carroll, thank you.

She's with me now, who conducted that excellent interview, CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash. And we also have CNN politics reporter MJ Lee.

So, Miss Bash, you know, I was sitting just around the corner in my office, watched every second of that, and I was just saying to you, I mean talk about loyal to a capital - with a capital "l." If I had been playing a drinking game and every time I heard Corey Lewandowski say, I had the privilege to, I would not have been able to walk a straight line to you right now.

BASH: That is - that is correct. Look, as Jason just touched on, Corey Lewandowski was kept on as campaign manager at a time when every other politician on the planet would have cut him loose, when he was arrested, basically, for going after - physically going after a reporter and Donald Trump refused to do it. And so the loyalty is going both ways here. I think that's a large part of it. I also think that I was frankly a little bit surprised that he wanted to come on and talk to me and I will say -

BALDWIN: As long as he did.

BASH: And he stayed as long as he did. And he - it is not in his interest to air -

BALDWIN: (INAUDIBLE).

BASH: To air his - air the dirty laundry in public. There's no way it's in his interest. And it is in his interest to talk about what is very real, which is a pretty remarkable primary run that he helped guide.

[14:25:00] BALDWIN: Lean and mean staff.

BASH: Lean and mean staff. The - many questions that went unanswered were I think the obvious ones now, which is, why couldn't you make the transition and the pivot from there to the general election? And the very real questions about the fact that his personality, his persona, the way he treated people was kind of almost universally known to be way aggressive and over the top and, you know, the way he described it was, you know, I can't remember the exact words but basically it was Popeye. I am who I am and, you know, I try to be straight with people.

BALDWIN: I'm not smart enough to tell a lie was what he said.

BASH: Yes. So - so that's the case. I did not expect him to come on here and start telling tales and to say terrible things about Donald Trump because, "a," that's not who he is. But more importantly, just in terms of kind of the raw politics of it for him it wouldn't serve him well because he's so inextricably linked to Donald Trump even as, and especially as, Trump fired him. BALDWIN: Let's get to - so he says he doesn't know why he was fired. He says, you know, it wasn't two security guards who walked me out this morning, it was a friend. But to you, MJ, you know, I know you've had reporting on stories apparently he was going to plan plant about Ivanka's husband, which you asked him about and he, you know, we didn't get anywhere on that. Tell me more about the why.

MJ LEE, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yes. I mean I think when's been so striking in all of the reporting that I have done, Dana has done a lot, and all of our reporters on the CNN Politics team, is that family was really crucial in the ultimate decision to fire Corey. That there were meetings and conversations with - between Trump and his children, including Ivanka Trump, Trump's daughter, about sort of the growing concerns about Lewandowski's role in the campaign and the direction that he was leading the campaign. I think a lot of Republicans have noted that there seems to be a fundamental misread on how you run a general election campaign, that it is so different from running a primary campaign. The messages and the rhetoric that worked during a primary campaign is really not the same message that works well in a general campaign. And it seemed as though Lewandowski, according to many of the sources we spoke to, seemed to be sort of egging Trump on to say things that were inflammatory and sort of unacceptable to the party. And I thought it was really interesting, you know, Dana tried really hard to push Corey on questions about whether he was involved in sort of encouraging Trump to use some of this rhetoric, and he never went - once said, no, I did not.

BASH: No, he didn't.

LEE: Or I tried to stop Trump.

BALDWIN: The speech after - the speech after Orlando.

BASH: He - he defended - he defended and explained why -

BALDWIN: Yes.

LEE: Right.

BASH: Trump said what he said and presented the policy he did after Orlando. And defended and explained why -

BALDWIN: The judge.

BASH: He said what he said about the judge.

BALDWIN: The judge.

BASH: Right.

BALDWIN: So if it was really more about the family, and we know how crucial behind the scenes Ivanka Trump is, then there's the whole arc between, you know, he described initially that Paul Manafort was brought on to handle delegates. Once that sort of went away, they had different roles. He said they got along great side by side. And to your point, which you kept hitting - hitting at him is, you know, he kept pointing out the successes and the unprecedented turnout that Republicans have had this primary season. Why not then, if you have been there from the get, would you not want to stick around and fulfill and as he would hope become - see Trump become president?

BASH: Right. I mean -

BALDWIN: He didn't really have an answer.

BASH: Right. I mean and I think it's hard to say, especially when it happened just a few hours ago, and he didn't know it was going to happen, it's hard to kind of, I think, say, OK, this is why I was -

BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: I was let go. I think that he was - it seemed to me just in kind of working with him and knowing him over the past year I guess that I don't know if you thought this, too, but he was trying to express without saying in the words that maybe it is time to move on. Now, if somebody would have said to him, you know, 12 hours ago, do you really think you're up for this? He would have said, absolutely, because that would have been any natural instinct.

BALDWIN: Of course.

BASH: Especially somebody like Corey Lewandowski.

BALDWIN: Just quickly, do you think we'll see a much different campaign moving forward minus Corey Lewandowski?

LEE: I think that's certainly the hope from everyone in Trump's inner circle. Corey did have access to Trump. The kind of access that -

BASH: Unprecedented.

LEE: Unprecedented.

BALDWIN: Yes.

LEE: Many of his other aides did not have. And I think that's sort of crucial to understanding how Tamp so far has behaved as a candidate. I think take Corey Lewandowski out of that picture, it's possible that we see a different Trump. But anyone in Trump's inner circle will tell you, Trump is his own man. He doesn't always take advice, even from people that he's very close to, and this, obviously, was an exception. Even in the fact that Trump decided to let go of his campaign manager.

[14:30:02] BASH: But it was - but it was a long time coming.

LEE: Right.

BASH: A long time coming, to your point. I mean all of our reporting is that, you know, it was - the RNC chair, Reince Priebus, it was not just Ivanka but all of his children