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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

FBI Releases Transcripts of Gunman's Call; Lewandowski Fired from Trump Campaign. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired June 20, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: The transcripts show that 33 minutes into the siege in the 2:00 a.m. hour last Sunday, Omar Mateen had this exchange with the 911 dispatcher. And it reads like this.

"Emergency 911. This is being recorded."

The shooter then says, "in the name of God the merciful, the beneficial," something in Arabic redacted.

The 911 operator says, "what?"

The shooter continues, 'praise be to God and prayers as well as peace be upon the prophet of God." Again, in Arabic, it's redacted. "I let you know I'm in Orlando and I did the shootings."

The operator, "what's your name?"

The shooter, "my name is, I pledge of allegiance to," and that's redacted as well.

The 911 operator, "OK, what's your name?"

The shooter, "I pledge allegiance to" redacted. "May God protect him in," redacted in Arabic, "on behalf of," redacted.

"All right, where are you," says the 911 operator.

The shooter responds, "in Orlando."

The 911 operator, "where in Orlando?"

And the call ends.

Investigators don't want to put the actual recordings out, but in a news conference that you may have just seen live here on CNN, they described the attacker's tone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON HOPPER, FBI SPECIAL AGENT: While we're not releasing the audio, what I can tell you is that while the killer made these murderous statements, he did so in a chilling, calm and deliberate manner.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: I want to stop here and bring in my CNN colleague Polo Sandoval, who is live in Orlando, and CNN justice correspondent Evan Perez in Washington.

Polo, there was a lot of back and forth between the press and the police and the FBI and authorities at that news conference as to why they did certain things. Number one, why they seemed - found it necessary to release this timeline amid what they're saying is criticism of their actions, and then also those redactions. So start with the police, if you will.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ashleigh, most of that was, according to authorities, was that the public - again, this is according to the U.S. attorney who spoke at this press conference - was so that the public could have a better idea of how violent and volatile a situation the officers were arriving to just minutes after that initial phone call was placed.

And then you've just played a little bit of how they described the tone of Omar Mateen, which is very important since it's very unlikely, or at least it's very - it's highly unlikely that we will actually ever be able to hear some of those tapes, at least for now. So it's very important to hear that description of investigators calling it calm, deliberate, and a chilling tone.

And then you also have the exchanges themselves. The threats that the officers were faced with through that dispatch. I want to read you some of the quotes and some of the - a portions of that conversation that Omar Mateen had with some of the Orlando police dispatchers at the moment.

One of the first ones is an actual and deliberate threat here saying, quote, "there is some vehicle outside that has some bombs. Just to let you know, you try to do anything stupid." And then, of course, the other one, which basically echoes some of the statements that we had previously known about, some of the statements that were posted on FaceBook on some accounts that were directly tied to Omar Mateen, that second one reading, quote, "in the next few days, you're going to see more of this type of action going on."

So what this does, it just paints a clearer picture of the threats that were directed towards law enforcement and one of several reasons why, according to authorities, they had to take their time in keeping that line of communication with Omar Mateen while he was hold up inside that restroom.

But, of course, what we didn't hear today was, what did he do before he arrived here, before those initial shot were fired at 2:00 a.m. We heard from his dad last week, from Omar Mateen's father, who said that he last saw him Saturday afternoon at about 2:00 or 3:00 in the afternoon. So there is that gap. Not just from there, up to 2:00 a.m., but also what he did when he woke up that Saturday morning before he unleashed that wave of terror.

BANFIELD: All right, Evan Perez, if you could jump in here. The - there was such a question about why these redactions. We all know from prior reporting what's in those redactions. But the Justice Department seemed to think this was a sensitivity issue so that the victims wouldn't be re-victimized. And yet in that press conference it seemed there was quite another reason.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And part of it was, according to the Justice Department, according to the FBI, they just don't want to feed into the Islamic State's propaganda machine, which, frankly, it's too late. I mean we know a lot about what was said on these calls. The FBI director addressed them last week, last Monday. We've heard from officials, law enforcement officials, about the FaceBook postings, about his various pledges of allegiance not only to al Baghdadi, but also to ISIS. And what has happened now in redacting the ISIS and the references to Baghdadi, what the Justice Department in inadvertently is doing perhaps is, is feeding some of the conspiracies out there that what the Obama administration is trying to do is to cover up the role of ISIS and of Islamic radical - radical Islam in what happened in Orlando.

[12:05:04] It is curious, I - Ashleigh, that in this redacted version of the discussions with the gunman, there is no mention of anti-gay bias. There's no mention of his hatred of homosexuals or homosexuality at all. He focuses simply on ISIS. And that's the message he wanted to be - to be out there.

BANFIELD: Next question, quickly, for you, Polo, if I can. There was - there was a list that was read off effectively during this news conference that's pretty alarming if you think of the size and scope of this investigation, the crime scene itself. Five hundred interviews, 600 pieces of evidence, thousands of tips that were pursued, but that they are nearing the finalization of processing this crime scene. How close until it's over?

SANDOVAL: It's a virtual mountain of evidence, Ashleigh, they are processing. And even today we have seen investigators come and go. Tomorrow, of course, as we know, the attorney general will be here. She is essentially the highest ranking law enforcement officer who will be here on the scene. So she will be able to paint an even clearer picture.

But, absolutely, they have a lot of material to go through. However, I'll close by saying this, Ashleigh, they did hint that there will some sign of normalcy before the middle of this week. They will begin to open up some of these streets because what you see behind me, Ashleigh, it is a reminder for the people here who continue to endure such a - so much pain and so that would obviously be something positive to come out of this, for people to begin to get their life somewhat back to normal, but, of course, that goes without forgetting those 49 lives that were cut short here eight days ago.

BANFIELD: Yes. Polo Sandoval, thank you for that. And, Evan Perez, for your reporting as well, thank you.

I want to call in the experts now. Art Roderick is a CNN law enforcement analyst and a former U.S. Marshal. Bob Baer is a former CIA operative and now CNN's intelligence and security analyst.

So, Art, first to you.

From the timeline that was released during this news conference, it appeared as though much of what we've heard reported is actually now codified in the documents that show the time that everything happened, which means effectively that nearly 50 people died in near minutes. It effectively means that this guy was able to master so incredibly fast and powerfully with the weaponry that he had.

ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Right.

BANFIELD: And it also means that the police did everything they could have done under the rules in which they have to engage, for their own safety.

RODERICK: Now, that's - that's exactly correct. And I mean what - what you see is this - this transcript that we have is actually a combination of two things, some radio transmissions and the 911 calls. What we don't see is the transcript of the negotiation because that doesn't have to be released under Florida law.

What's interesting is this starts at 2:02 a.m. And this is already after the initial engagement by the uniformed police officer because the next - the next thing you have here is at 2:04 a.m., additional OPD officers arrive at the scene.

BANFIELD: The SWAT?

RODERICK: The - no. This is -

BANFIELD: No?

RODERICK: This is two or three other officers that came as immediate back-up, and then they reentered or entered the club at that point in time, and that's when the gunfight and second gunfight ensued.

BANFIELD: You know, interesting, I wasn't aware of this, but there are actually four calls that he had with the police.

RODERICK: Yes.

BANFIELD: Not three, as we'd learned earlier. The first one was the 50 second call to the 911 operator, which I read to you just earlier on this program. Then there were these additional three calls. One at 2:48 a.m., one at 3:03 a.m., and one at 3:24 a.m. They lasted, and I will read in succession, nine minute, 16 minutes and three minutes. And those are the transcripts we do not have, what the hostage negotiates team was able to discuss with him.

But we do know that he had stated that he had bombs, that he was going to strap on several of these victims Paris style -

RODERICK: Right.

BANFIELD: Referring to the attacks in Paris and that that's why, perhaps, there was this standoff. Bob Baer, if I can just come to you with the question about the

redactions. I think this is becoming a very big issue. If you look at the Internet, is on fire with those who are critical of the administration, first for suggesting this was to not re-victimize those who were victimized by this. I'm not sure how you could re- victimize them worse because we already knew this information. But then, secondly, during this news conference we were told specifically it was about a propaganda issue. But it seems to me that's falling flat considering it's already out there.

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Ashleigh, I mean, we should put it out there. This started out as - there was the consideration it was a hate crime. In fact, the administration said it was. But apparently the shooter didn't mention - he wasn't homophobic in any way. He didn't - he didn't - nothing that we've seen so far. And by redacting transcripts like this, you do get into conspiracy theories. I mean there's a lot a part of this investigation we don't have, like what did he do in Saudi Arabia? What role did his second wife have? What was his Internet searches? All this is very important to get to motivation. But for me the biggest thing is that he mentioned Syria and Iraq, our bombing of those two countries, which this administration wants to downplay that there's any relationship. But I think we - clarity is the order of the day.

[12:10:02] BANFIELD: Yes. Speaker Paul Ryan, in the effort to give his, you know, spin on the clarity, put out this tweet and statement not too long ago actually saying, "selectively editing this transcript is preposterous. We know the shooter was a radical Islamist extremist inspired by ISIS. We also know he intentionally targeted the LGBT community. The administration should release the full unredacted transcript so the public is clear-eyed about who did this and why."

The issue with the LGBT community is not included at all in the transcript that we have. There's no reference whatsoever to the LGBT community, but we do know he'd been there. So we know damn well that he knew what that club was. He had spent many a night in that club. He had been drinking with others, been friendly with others in that club. He'd been kicked out, according to one of the witnesses interviewed in that club before. And his wife had taken him there before. So it's not as though he didn't know where he was going and what kind of club it was.

Art, to you, the question of the wife.

RODERICK: Yes.

BANFIELD: We still don't have any information about the wife. There is nothing in this transcript about the wife and yet it seems there's some radio silence about the wife. There can't be behind the scenes.

RODERICK: I'm sure there isn't. And this leads me to believe that the U.S. attorney is working on some charges here. There was absolutely no mention of the wife or the phone call. Supposedly they exchanged text messages and a phone call. And none of that is in this - is in this transcript. So this leads me to believe that they're trying to sort through the evidence and possibly build a case to bring to the grand jury on federal charges.

BANFIELD: Bob, is there anything else that you're seeing from at least the very small cross section of communications that has been released that gives us any further insight as to why last Sunday morning, Saturday night, played out?

BAER: Well, let me go out on a limb here. The fact that he was so cold-blooded, the fact that he was ready to die tells me he was driven by belief, he wasn't like the shooter in Colorado Springs that sprayed bullets everywhere, didn't know what he was doing. This man had a plan. The fact that he mentioned there was explosives - this happened in San Bernardino where they had these IEDs there - slowed down the police response. I'm seeing a pattern here. The call in the middle of the attack has all the hallmarks of an ISIS attack, whether he developed this tactics on his own or was instructed, we have to wait and see where the investigation goes. But this is looking less and less to me like a hate crime.

BANFIELD: Yes.

RODERICK: Yes.

BANFIELD: And I will say this, that the - while we are not going to get any kind of public release of the audio of these calls, we can say that the assistant special agent in charge of the FBI down there did described his voice as chilling and calm and his manner as deliberate.

I'm going to leave it there. Art Roderick and Bob Baer, thank you both for your insight. Appreciate it.

RODERICK: Than you.

BANFIELD: Coming up next, Donald Trump's campaign manager fired. And that's the word they're using, fired. Details of the campaign shake- up. And lots of other big news from inside the room where that discussion went down. You won't believe what was said and who was saying it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:17:10] BANFIELD: Safe to say that this is not an understatement. There's a huge shake-up happening today inside the Donald Trump campaign. He has dumped his long time campaign manager Corey Lewandowski. That move comes as Donald Trump's inner circle is set to meet today in New York City. The campaign saying that the move is to, quote, "reassess campaign strategy and messaging." What else is it about?

I want to get our political panel in here to talk this over. Dana Bash is CNN's chief political correspondent, Joseph Borelli is a New York City councilman and the co-care of Trump's New York campaign, Errol Louis is a CNN political commentator and the anchor of Time Warner Cable News, and in Washington Jim Acosta, our senior White House correspondent.

Dana Bash, I want to just begin with you on some of the unbelievable inside details that you have been able to get from your sources on what proceeded this pretty remarkable and a bit surprising, I will say, announcement.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's his family and specifically Donald Trump's children and - including his son-in-law. First and foremost -

BANFIELD: Ivanka's husband?

BASH: Invanka's husband.

BANFIELD: OK.

BASH: First and foremost, I am told that it was his daughter, Ivanka, whom, you know, we've been reporting and talking about for some time, is a huge influence on her father professionally and I guess now politically, said to him, look, dad, Corey Lewandowski has got to go and if he doesn't I'm going to have a really hard time being involved and staying involved in this campaign. And that that came - that was sort of the final meeting and where he said, OK -- Donald Trump said OK.

But prior to that, starting late last week, Reince Priebus, the RNC chair, was involved in calling Donald Trump and giving reasons why Corey Lewandowski was, from their perspective, hurting the campaign. But also his - the son-in-law, Ivanka Trump's husband, Jared Kushner, was incredibly involved, I am told, in talking to - in sort of coordinating this and talking through with his father-in-law why he did not think Corey was right.

And - and there are all -

BANFIELD: But did she give an actual ultimatum? I mean was there something about her being - and I'll use the word because that's what's surfacing, "disgusted," that she said either he goes or I can't do this anymore.

BASH: My understanding is that was what was implied. Whether she actually said, you know, the words that she said were an ultimatum -

BANFIELD: Yes.

BASH: I'm not sure. I mean it was a - it was a private meeting, but that that was clearly the message she was giving to her father.

BANFIELD: So -

BASH: But the fact that her - that her husband, Jared Kushner, has been much more involved I think than people realize behind the scenes - we've been reporting on the fact that he's involved in fundraising and sort of connecting with donors and so forth, and budgeting.

BANFIELD: By the way, influential publisher, New York observer.

BASH: Exactly.

BANFIELD: He's no slouch when it comes to knowing the pulse of the community.

[12:20:01] BASH: Absolutely. Absolutely. And - but that he has been more and more involved behind the scenes.

BANFIELD: Yes.

BASH: And intimately involved in deciding that Corey Lewandowski could no longer be at the helm because it was too dysfunctional internally and that message wise, and most importantly, Donald Trump's campaign since he became a general election candidate versus Hillary Clinton, has been sinking rapidly and they need to turn it around.

BANFIELD: OK. And that's where I want to get to you, Jim Acosta, because I know that you've talked to a senior Trump official and you got some information on that whole ultimatum question. I want you to give us the insight on that.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Yes, Ashleigh, just to echo what Dana is saying, it sounds like this was a tag team effort to dump Corey Lewandowski. Half of the equation appears to be Ivanka Trump and her husband Jared Kushner. Dana is absolutely right, Jared Kushner has been taking on a high profile and a role that is growing in importance in the last several weeks of this campaign. But also Paul Manafort, I'm told by a couple of Trump advisors, went to Donald Trump and said, listen, it is either Corey Lewandowski or it's me.

You know, up until this point, Ashleigh, you basically had, you know, the campaign split in two. Corey Lewandowski was the campaign manager and Paul Manafort was serving as the campaign chairman. That was his role. Now I'm told Paul Manafort is now fully in charge, below Donald Trump, of course, as the campaign chairman and he just held a conference call with staff members within the last hour, Ashleigh, and according to people on this conference call, it was pretty short and sweet, but essentially Paul Manafort said, hey, stay the course. We're going to keep going here. But he also wished Corey Lewandowski well. So a bit of a kidney shot from Paul Manafort it sounds like to Corey Lewandowski on the way out because there was no love lost between these two gentlemen. I mean they were really fighting -

BANFIELD: A kidney shot, gut shot. You name it.

ACOSTA: They were really fighting for control of this organization, absolutely.

BANFIELD: Yes, that's a really big, public ousting and an embarrassing one at that.

Jim, stand by for a minute.

Joseph Borelli, not only are you a councilman here in New York City, but you're also the co-chair of Donald Trump's New York campaign. Wow, I mean, this is really uncomfortable stuff because there's a lot at play here. There's a guy who has pledged his loyalty to Donald Trump for the last year and done him miraculous work all through the primaries. There's a guy named Donald Trump who pledges that he is a loyal man and then this.

JOSEPH BORELLI, CO-CHAIR, TRUMP NY CAMPAIGN: Sure. You know, we can't discount some of the success that the campaign had under Corey Lewandowski in the primary, doing so much with so little resources, you know, vis-a-vis money, staff, volunteers, everything. That said - and Dana and Jim are reporting in some of the updated stuff, but this is a fight that has been going on for quite some time and it's been - it's been well reported.

Paul Manafort was hired to modernize, to professionalize the campaign. And when you have someone who maybe because they felt they're being overshadowed but who's trying to stymie the work of someone who's trying to lead the campaign in a new direction, a better direction, I think it's time to go. You can't make an omelet without cracking some eggs and, unfortunately, it was time for Corey to go.

BANFIELD: But sometimes you don't need to crack all the eggs. Sometimes you need to manage your staff. And if you brought on Paul Manafort knowing full well he needed Manafort to put the machine in place, the official machine for the general election, why couldn't he manage Corey Lewandowski's role?

BORELLI: Yes, I mean it's clear that Corey had some sort of an outsized role even after Paul Manafort was hired to come on.

BANFIELD: Isn't that the CEO's job to say, here's your new parameter?

BORELLI: Right. I mean Corey, from what I've understood, has been trying to sort of use his influence to sort of stymie a lot of the stuff that Paul correctly has been trying to do.

BANFIELD: Yes.

BORELLI: You know, it's not totally unusual for this sort of thing to happen. It is unusual that it's happening this publicly and this - this short notice in that regard. But I think ultimately this is a good step because this had to happen and it's better it happen sooner rather than in October or September.

BANFIELD: So we reached out to Corey Lewandowski, CNN, on behalf of the entire network and he had no comment and he didn't give us any indication as to what his next move is going to be. But, Errol Louis, the next move of this campaign, my thought is, is under the guise of a guy who has been at this for decades. Paul Manafort knows how to put a machine in place. Paul Manafort knows what a ground game is. Paul Manafort knows what a general election campaign is compared to a primary campaign. But it's June and a lot of people say it's just a little too late in June to start building that machine.

ERROL LOUIS, TIME WARNER CABLE NEWS ANCHOR: Well, we're at, what, 139 days until the election. Early voting starts in Iowa in 2.5 months. So the time is getting compressed, the time is getting short and that might explain the some ways the abruptness of this decision. It is not at all, let's be clear, it's not all that unusual for different people to sort of take the spotlight at different phases of the campaign. You have the early primary states, and that's one kind of specialist. You have Super Tuesday, when a campaign goes to sort of a national primary, or a regional primary footing, and that's a different kind of a specialist. You've got a delegate specialist, somebody who's supposed to count the heads and get you through the convention. That's another kind of specialist. Now you've got to sort of get the final national push in place and then you've got Election Day itself. And those are actually different specialists. So, you know -

[12:25:15] BANFIELD: So -

LOUIS: Lewandowski, in some ways, is just not the person, I think, that the campaign has decided for this phase and it was inevitable in a way that he would sort of take a lesser position to be escorted out of the building, in effect, to be kicked out -

BANFIELD: Is a little uncomfortable.

LOUIS: Is a little extreme, but he wasn't going to play the kind of role that he played in the primary because that's not usually what happens in a campaign.

BANFIELD: Dana Bash, I need a quick wrap-up on this because if you're talking about a reset, there's a lot of etch a sketching that may need to be done as well. There's the judge issue that's still out there. There's the NRA disagreement about the no fly, no buy issue. There is the, it's a beautiful thing if there was crossfire in the - in that Orlando shooting. There's the I was right and thanks for your congratulations on the shooting. There's the, I'm going to go it alone, I don't care what the RNC does and they should shut up. There's the, Obama somehow played a role in - there - I - listen, this is off the top of my head.

BASH: There's a - there's an old saying in campaign operations, and that is, the fish - the fish rots from the head, meaning, when things go bad in the operation, you've got to look at the top and the top is the candidate. The question that we are going to have to look at and we're just going to have to watch as events unfold and watch Trump himself, is whether or not things start to change and all of those things that you just listed, which happened like in the last week -

BANFIELD: That's just the last week.

BASH: Are going to - are going to diminish and he is going to be - the part of Donald Trump that they keep promising behind the scenes to sources I talked to on Capitol Hill and elsewhere, that he is going to be the more presidential candidate, the more kind of stately general -

BANFIELD: Stately, stalwart, sure (ph).

BASH: General election kind of candidate is going to emerge. That's the open question. Whether or not it is true that Corey Lewandowski, a lot - his enemies thought, and he had a lot of them, that he played into Trump's absolute worst qualities and characteristics and - and was on the plane with him and fed into him, OK, you're doing all of those things the right way, whether that is true and that will be proved by whether or not it's going to change.

BANFIELD: Got to leave it there. Joseph Borelli, thank you. Errol Louis, as always, thank you. Dana Bash, great reporting, as always.

BASH: Thank you. Thanks, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And, Jim Acosta, good source reporting as well. Thank you to all of you. Do appreciate it.

And stay with us, next hour we're going to hear from Vice President Biden, who's speaking live about foreign policy and specifically Donald Trump's foreign policy.

Coming up next though, four separate gun control measures coming up for a vote in the Senate. Has the Orlando massacre changed enough minds to actually pass any of them? Here's a hint, highly unlikely. Going to take you live to Washington and find out why, next.

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