Return to Transcripts main page

Wolf

Trump Fires Campaign Manager Corey Lewandowski; Interview with Corey Lewandowski. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired June 20, 2016 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:30:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: The statement that the Trump campaign initially put out, the statement by Hope Hicks, the press secretary, quote, "Donald J. Trump Campaign for President, which set a historic record having received almost 14 million votes, has today announced that Corey Lewandowski will no longer be working with the campaign. The campaign is grateful to Corey for his hard work and dedication, and we wish him the best in the future."

That was the statement put out by the Trump campaign.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: We'll have to see what Corey Lewandowski says going forward with his interview he's going to give to Dana.

I think Donald Trump's problem is much bigger than Corey Lewandowski. He's been in this place with historic negatives because of the things he's said and the way he's conducted himself. That is what has Republicans worried. There's few Republicans I've talked to saying we want Corey Lewandowski out. They want a better candidate from Donald Trump.

And I understand that his kids are more active now and trying to get him in a different place, but I assume they'd be there all along as well as he's called for a ban, a temporary ban on Muslims, as he talked about Judge Curiel in a way a lot of people called racist.

So this idea that this is a shake-up that's going to put him on a more solid footing is questionable because of the troubles of his own making so far.

BLITZER: Ron, the only statement we have so far from Corey Lewandowski is, quote, "I stand by the fact that Mr. Trump is a great candidate and is better than Hillary Clinton ever will be."

We're about to hear a lot more from Corey Lewandowski when he has this interview with Dana Bash. But it took a lot of us, I'm sure it took you by surprise this dramatic development today.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, yeah, but when they did, they won the primary, really, with a new model, right? They built this massive media operation with very little conventional structure underneath it. And that was enough to overwhelm this Republican field. But as their own statement noted, they won nearly 14 million votes in the Republican primary. To win the general election, they're going to need almost certainly north of 65 million votes. And there simply have not been any of the kind of steps to building the structure that will allow you to do that. One of the most striking numbers which may explain why Corey Lewandowski is no longer running Trump's campaign is the figures over the weekend about the spending on the ads in the battleground states. The Clinton campaign is up -- and up to $23 million. Trump is at zero. And it's not only that they failed to adapt from the primary to the general and kind of made that transition, many of the things they did to win the primary and speaking to that more narrow, more ideological basically all white primary audience are the same things causing them the difficulties you now see for the bigger, broader election. Another poll out today, 47/70, Monmouth University. That is where the race seems to have settled. The Republicans feel the need for a shake-up, and they're right.

BLITZER: Ron, if you look at what was spent in the primaries when there were 16 other Republican candidates, they spent hundreds of millions of dollars. We did some checking today. Trump's campaign spent in all of those primaries and caucuses, $17 million yet he crushed all of them primarily by going on television a lot and making his case. And presumably, that was going to be his strategy this time around as well. Would that not work in the general election?

BROWNSTEIN: I think that was the conclusion, it would not. Among virtually all Republican professionals, that could not work in the general election, speaking to the much broader audience. No question that Donald Trump has kind of revolutionized campaigning in the way he has dominated the mass media in a way no candidate has before him. His Twitter feed reaches comparable audience as any of the evening network news broadcasts. He can reach a lot of people. But as I said, it's one thing to speak to 14 million or 15 million people and it's another to speak to 65 million-plus, especially when many of those are voters not nearly as in sync with you. It' a much younger, much diverse electorate, more female as well than the Republican primary electorate. They are voters not as inclined to be with him. Mobilization is not going to be enough for Donald Trump to win in November. He needs persuasion as well. And simply, I just don't see how you do that without more of the structure of a conventional campaign than they seem to put together so far.

BLITZER: Gloria, contrast what's going on in the Trump campaign to what's going on in the Hillary Clinton campaign. She got Biden about to speak for her, she got the president of the United States, Elizabeth Warren. Except for Bernie Sanders, everybody seems to be on board.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: And he'll be on board. It's a behemoth. The Hillary Clinton campaign has the president of the United States, Joe Biden, Bill Clinton. Hillary Clinton will get Bernie Sanders. They've got as many surrogates as they can possibly need, people in the Senate, governors, et cetera. Look at the Trump campaign. Where are the strong surrogates out there? You've got maybe a handful at most. You don't have organization. You have people contorting themselves in the Senate to say, I endorse the nominee, but the words Donald Trump can't flow from their mouths. You have the Senate leader, the Republican Senate leader saying enough about the presidential candidate, let's talk about something else, and on and on and on. So, you know, the last month has been completely squandered.

[11:35:12] DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST & HOST, THE DAVID GREGORY SHOW PODCAST: I think what's striking, too, is that what Hillary Clinton is engaging in doing is protecting the Obama coalition from 2012 and tending to that well. Disorganization in a campaign happens and it's surmountable, but for Donald Trump, as Ron is saying, he is actually subtracting from where he was. He's not adding. This is the time for addition. And that's what he's got to get to.

BLITZER: Guy's stand by. We're expecting momentarily to hear from Corey Lewandowski. He'll be sitting down with our Dana Bash for this interview.

And we're also standing by to hear from the vice president of the United States, Joe Biden. We'll get his assessment. He's about to deliver a very tough statement, going after Donald Trump. You see the lectern right there. We'll have coverage of that. Lots of political news coming up.

Still ahead, new details are coming up surrounding the death of a U.S. Navy SEAL killed in Iraq. How he's being honored for his role in a previously unknown firefight with ISIS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

[13:40:35] BLITZER: Let's go right to the breaking news. I want to bring in our chief political correspondent, Dana Bash, in New York right now with Donald Trump's former campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, who was fired earlier today.

Dana, I know you have an interview with him and we're all anxious to hear what happened.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Wolf. That's right. And Corey Lewandowski is here with me.

Thank you very much for coming in. So many questions to ask.

First, from your perspective, what happened? Why were you fired?

COREY LEWANDOWSKI, FORMER CAMPAIGN MANAGER, DONALD TRUMP PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. But what I know is what we've been able to achieve in this election cycle has been historic. We had a candidate who, in June of last year, announced he is going to run for president with no elected office experience in a field of 16 other people in the race, plus him, who has gone on to something historic, which is almost 14 million votes, and fundamentally changed the way people look at politics. And I'm proud to be a small part of that. And running as the outsider of this campaign, which he has done, running against the corrupt Washington, D.C., establishment and political correctness, has been something I've been proud to be a part of.

Things change as the campaign evolves. And a general campaign is well funded giant organization like the Clinton campaign is very different than running against those smaller primary state elections, even when it was a big day.

BASH: You think it was appropriate for Donald Trump to make the change and let you go?

LEWANDOWSKI: What I think is that the voters have a binary decision coming up on Election Day. They can either vote for Hillary Clinton and her liberal policies, or put someone in place who will change Washington. And I will do everything I can to make sure the latter of those two happens, which means Donald Trump is elected president. If I can do that from inside the campaign, it's a privilege. If I can do that outside the campaign, that's also a privilege.

BASH: Did Mr. Trump himself call you this morning and say -- I don't mean to use this term, but it is the term, you're fired.

LEWANDOWSKI: I had a nice conversation with Mr. Trump and I said to him, it's been an honor and privilege to be part of this. And I mean that for the bottom of my heart. I think as you look at how small this team has been and how close-knit this team has been, it's really important to know there are highs and lows in every campaign, and we've been through them together. And in order to be successful, we need to continue to build that team and build those relationships with the RNC to utilize the resources they have available to us. So that's where the campaign is going. And it's been a great privilege.

And look, I wouldn't change one second. The hardest part for me has been just not being able to spend time with my family the last 18 or 19 months but I would not look back. I have no regrets. It such a privilege and an honor to have been a small part of this, to learn and experienced what he's been able to achieve. It's been truly amazing.

BASH: Were you surprised? Were you blindsided?

LEWANDOWSKI: I don't know if it's so much of that. It's been a lot of conjecture in the media lately about what's going on well and what isn't going on well in the campaign. I think a lot of that is just the media trying to hype up a campaign. What we have is we've got a candidate on the other side under criminal investigation from the FBI. That, most of the mainstream media don't want to talk about. Instead, they want to talk about things Donald Trump said or did 20 or 30 or 40 years ago. And even when he gives a great policy speech, and he's probably the best speaker our country has seen as a presidential candidate, he doesn't get credit for those things.

BASH: I want to get in some of the specifics about how the campaign was run and where you are right now, but before that, were you escorted out of the building by security today?

LEWANDOWSKI: It doesn't work like that. Obviously, there are protocols in place that when someone is no longer an employee they just make sure -- there's no escorting out. I've had the privilege of working with these people for 19 months. They're friends of mine. But there's a protocol in place and everyone follows the same protocol regardless of who it is. And I think that's the right thing. BASH: So, yes, you were, but that was part of --

(CROSSTALK)

LEWANDOWSKI: It's wasn't security. It was a friend from the office.

BASH: OK. Let's get into what went on inside the campaign. Sources who I've talked to and others have talked said they described you as a hot head and you just didn't treat people right. What do you say to that?

LEWANDOWSKI: Look, I think I'm a very intense person. My expectation is perfection because I think that's what Mr. Trump deserves. I think he deserves the very best because he's put his life and his fortune into this campaign, spending tens of millions of dollars to go do something that he didn't need to do. He's had a great life, but he wants to change the country for the better. And I see how hard he's worked in this campaign. He works 18, 19, 20 hours a day consistently.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: But this question is about you.

[11:45:13] LEWANDOWSKI: I understand. Leadership starts at the top. And I see what he's put into the campaign. And when I see someone not working as hard as the person who's funding the campaign, the campaign principal, meaning the candidate, yeah, that bothers me. Because leadership is at the top. And I have never asked someone to do something in this campaign I wasn't willing to do myself. And Mr. Trump has never asked me to do something he wasn't willing to do himself. I've had the privilege of traveling with him a lot and he doesn't sleep on the plane, he just works all the time. That's the mindset and the tenacity and intensity he'll bring to being president of the United States. And I think you can expect out of people. We never had 700 people in the campaign. We ran the campaign with 70 people. More efficient, more effective, leaner, meaner. Does that mean sometimes you need people to do extra, stay late and get in early? You bet you do.

BASH: OK, I want to get that in a minute. I also want to put up on the screen -- I don't know if you've seen this -- but one of the senior advisors to Mr. Trump put out a tweet almost immediately after you were fired, Michael Caputo, "Ding dong, the witch is dead." That doesn't happen, Corey. You worked in a lot of campaigns. I don't mean to put it up to be hurtful to you but it's just the reality.

LEWANDOWSKI: Let's be clear. Michael Caputo is not a senior advisor. He has no formal role with the campaign. He's a volunteer. He doesn't get paid by the campaign. He has no formal role with the campaign. So --

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: For anybody involved in the campaign and wants the best for Donald Trump -- (CROSSTALK)

BASH: -- as you do, to put that out.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: I wouldn't have put that up had it not been a narrative that we were hearing. And I'm sure that's why you wanted to come on to try to push back on a lot of that.

LEWANDOWSKI: I think in all campaigns, you've got detractors and you've got supporters. That's the nature of the beast. And I think if you went out -- I don't know Michael Caputo. He's a volunteer who's been to the campaign for three or four weeks. I think he's in Cleveland. I don't really know what he does for the campaign. If you talk to the people who have been here from the beginning, look at state directors here from the beginning, the people who have been in the trenches, who understand and have seen Mr. Trump's work ethic and what he's been able to accomplish in their state, whether it's New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina, Iowa, those states where no one gave him a chance and he became successful and became the Republican nominee, I think if you asked them, they'd stand toe to toe with me any day of the week and 20 hours a day to make sure that they had the same work ethic I do. And I think that's what I try to foster with the people I've worked with.

BASH: Sources from the campaign, in and around the campaign, have told us that they thought you were feeding Mr. Trump's worst instincts. One of your lines is, "Let Trump be Trump," but if there was a plan in place, post-primary, now that he's trying to pivot to the general, is in he general, that you would get on the plan and undercut that plan and bring out his worst instincts. How do you respond to that?

LEWANDOWSKI: I say, what interest do I have in doing that? I think you have to remember --

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: I think the suggestion is that just it's who you are.

LEWANDOWSKI: If Donald Trump wins, that's good for Corey Lewandowski and good for the country. And so when you think about it, why would I want to do anything other than what's the best interest for him in the campaign for the good of the country? I've given up 19 months of my life and my family and all of the other things to make sure he's in the best possible position. And I'm not the only one. Many people have done that. For anyone to insinuate that I wouldn't want what is best for him, does that mean every time he asks me something, do I push back on it? No. Because candidly, he has had his finger on the pulse of the American public for the last 16 or 18 months of this campaign, and he has seen things that I didn't see, and he knows how to message things that I don't know how to do.

BASH: Should you have pushed back more in recent weeks now that it's a totally different ball game? LEWANDOWSKI: No. It's important to push back on issues that are

important. I think you have to be selective when you do that. Mr. Trump has had unparalleled success in the business world and now unparalleled success in the world of politics. And I think when he presents an idea, some ideas are very, very good and they should move forward. Some are pretty good and should move forward. And the ones that I take exception to, if they are there, I let my opinion be known. And anyone who knows me, know I don't give a yes answer. I give my opinion, probably to my detriment too many times. And I will fight for my opinions forcefully. Doesn't mean I'm always right or always wrong. But what I do say is I think this is what we should do this time. At the end of the day, there's one person who makes the decision in this campaign as it goes forward and it should be that way.

BASH: You mentioned people you didn't see eye to eye with. Let's talk about Paul Manafort. There has been a lot of discussion -- I know it's out in the media -- but I think it will be hard for you to say that it's not real, that there was a lot of real tension.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: What was the relationship with him?

[13:50:04] LEWANDOWSKI: When Paul first came in, he was going to manage the delegate process, and then we were fortunate enough to secure delegates we didn't need a delegate manager. Since that time, Paul and I have gotten along amazingly well. And the media doesn't want to report that, but we worked side by side, talked on a daily basis, multiple times a day. He had his roles to oversee on the campaign. I had a very separate function, which included making sure that Mr. Trump's schedule goes accordingly, the fundraising side of things. We divided things accordingly and had a great relationship. No animosity between Paul and I. I know the media doesn't want to report it, but --

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Forgive me for being skeptical but it's hard to believe that it was as sort of rosy and happy as you describe when there's so much discussion of dysfunction.

(CROSSTALK)

LEWANDOWSKI: The campaign is so small and bringing in a professional like Paul helped us grow the campaign. And we need 10 more of these. The campaign needs to continue to grow to be successful. So everything that Paul did for the campaign is one less thing I had to do. I'm thankful for that.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: He's still there and you're not. So it's hard to see that it's anything other than power struggle and he won.

LEWANDOWSKI: No. I don't think that's the case. You know what I think? I think this campaign will continue to grow. I think Donald Trump will be the next president of the United States. If there's anything to do to make help make that happen, whether that's advice to Paul or advice to Mr. Trump or advice anywhere along the line, I'll be happy to do that.

BASH: Let's talk about Mr. Trump's family. My understanding and others here are reporting is that his children were very forceful in saying it's time for Corey Lewandowski to leave. Does that surprise you?

LEWANDOWSKI: I can say I've have always had a great relationship with the family. And I think I'll continue to do so. Look, everybody has their own opinions. And I think what you have is a transition in the campaign from a very, very successful 37-state primary state victory process, which was managed at a one-off level on the state, or the multi-state, to look to a bigger picture. That's OK. There's nothing wrong with that. More ideas, more people giving input, that's great, that's important. I'm an implementer. That's what I try to do. I try and take the ideas that have been laid out and implement them to the best of our ability. And I think that's the most important thing. And that includes the kids' input, other professionals' input, elected officials input and D.C. people's input. I try to implement what I think with the collective organization is best for the campaign. That's all I try and do.

BASH: Our understandings is that even Ivanka Trump's husband, Jared Kushner, has been much more involved and was intimately involved in saying it's time for you, for Corey, to go. Can you tell me about your relationship with him?

LEWANDOWSKI: I've had a great relationship with Jared. He's helped us from the onset of having a better online presence, being aggressive in a good way of getting us to have a stronger social media presence, making sure we're posting our Facebook page. He understands a different component than I understand. He's very, very good in that regard and he's very good at moving the campaign forward in that regard. I think it's been a great relationship, so I'm not sure where that's coming from. But he's someone who --

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: We have some reporting that he found out that you were trying to plant some not so nice stories about him. Is that true?

LEWANDOWSKI: I have no interest of doing that. Again, my goal in this campaign from day one was get Mr. Trump elected president of the United States. I'm privileged enough --

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: So that's not true. You weren't trying to undermine him?

LEWANDOWSKI: That's not true. What I want to do is get Mr. Trump to be the president of the United States. That's been my job and my only goal. And that includes focusing on my job. Look, the job as a campaign manager for a presidential campaign -- and 16 other guys on the Republican side have had this as well -- is to go and implement the best policies for the campaign and build a long-term team so, come November 8th, you're successful. 16 other managers tried this, and weren't successful. I was privilege enough to successful because we have the best candidate, the best speaker, we have the person who got the biggest crowds, who won 37 states and primaries and caucuses around the country. That's important to remember.

BASH: Two more people, and then getting the strategy. Ivanka Trump?

LEWANDOWSKI: Great asset to the campaign. I mean --

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Would you be surprised if you heard that she was not thrilled with the job that you were doing?

LEWANDOWSKI: I don't think that's the case. I think Ivanka is somebody who understands her father and is a fantastic surrogate for the campaign. She brings a sense of calmness to the campaign. She a way about her that she connects immediately, not just with women, but business executives. She's so polished and professional. It's been an honor to work with her for last 18 months.

BASH: Let's talk a little about the roles you did have and you talked a lot about personnel, but about the strategy and about what did not seem to be working that well. Just, for example, there's new polling today from Monmouth that has Mr. Trump down seven points, 47 percent to 40 percent. Do you feel that, as your role as campaign manager, part of the issue was that the campaign wasn't managed correctly in terms of what he needs to do -- forget about the personnel side -- but to win the White House?

[11:55:03] LEWANDOWSKI: No. I think the strategy is looking to expand the map from what a traditional Republican campaign would look like. So if you look four years ago at the states that Mitt Romney lost, Florida and Virginia and Pennsylvania, those are places that Donald Trump is going to win. And that fundamentally changes the outcome of this election. National polls, while important, you know what, what's more important are the state-specific polls. If you look at states like New Jersey where Donald Trump is winning, and Florida, where Donald trump is winning, Ohio, where he's winning or within the margin --

BASH: What polls?

LEWANDOWSKI: The public polls. Go to Real Clear Politics, you can look at the polls in the respective states. It's one or two points on the side within the margins. And those states are going to make a difference. And so if you want to go and poll the people of Alaska, you want to poll the people of Idaho, you know, those are all inclusive in the respective national polls. But a presidential election is traditionally run on a national scale is done in 10 or 11 states.

BASH: OK, so -- LEWANDOWSKI: Mr. Trump will run in a much bigger place because he has the ability to turn those traditional blue states like Pennsylvania red again.

BASH: Let's talk about that because the only way to do that in a traditional campaign -- we know that he's not a traditional candidate, certainly didn't have a traditional structure in the primaries -- but to build a network, to have field staff, and to do that you have to raise money, if you're not going to self fund, which he's not in the general. My understanding is that there's no fundraising network and that you are relying -- the campaign is relying a lot on the RNC infrastructure. But that was your job, right, to fundraise?

LEWANDOWSKI: Let me touch on it. We started to raise money in the last 30 days or so because Mr. Trump has self funded through the primary, of which we're still part of right now. And Mr. Trump is raising money for the RNC for their infrastructure, which means their data programs, their field staff. They have 500 field staff in place right now. Four years ago, the RNC had four in place in the key battleground states.

BASH: No, I understand. It's a different model. You're relying on the RNC. I have done reporting on that.

LEWANDOWSKI: Sure.

BASH: But this is more of a question about the fact that they still need Donald Trump and the Trump campaign to raise money.

LEWANDOWSKI: He's done that. If you look at what he did in the last four days, through Texas and North Carolina and Georgia and Las Vegas and Arizona, he raised $12 million to $15 million for the party in a four-day swing. That money goes to the joint fundraising agreement so that -- the joint fundraising committee so the RNC has the resources necessary to put the boots on the ground, to enhance the data program and make sure they have all of the resources necessary.

BASH: What I'd heard from a source familiar with this is that part of the trouble that he had with fundraising is that the donors didn't respond to you and donors are used to being coddled.

LEWANDOWSKI: That's not true. But the money is pouring in.

BASH: And they got calls --

(CROSSTALK)

LEWANDOWSKI: The money is pouring in. We went out to California and did one event. I think he raised $6 million or $8 million in one evening in California. What you have seen in the last four or five days, and Reince Priebus on the trip to Texas, the goal at a particular event was to raise $2 million. We raised $3.5 million.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: So you're telling me we're going to see more money raised than people are describing?

LEWANDOWSKI: Absolutely. Not just that, but the money is pouring in. People want to come on board, join the Trump organization, join the Trump train because they know that if Hillary Clinton is elected president of the United States, it will be four more years of the Obama administration.

BASH: If you have that kind of money, my question is, the Clinton campaign has $40 million in ads and bought ad time for the next six weeks. Donald Trump and his campaign, zero.

LEWANDOWSKI: That's right.

BASH: But if you had that kind of money and organization, why wouldn't you --

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: -- leave the air waves to her?

LEWANDOWSKI: Jeb Bush spent $228 million -- $150 million running for president in the primary, spending money on major media investments of which do not do him any good. He did not win one state in the primary. We saw Scott Walker, same thing. Reserved $7 million in ad time and didn't spend the money.

BASH: But you said the primary is a totally different world.

LEWANDOWSKI: It is a completely different thing. But you have to understand Donald Trump can bypass the mainstream media if he wants to go directly to the people. He's done it successfully and continues to do that. And something the media doesn't like, but he can go to Twitter or Facebook account or Instagram where he 20 million-plus people following him, and get the message out. That's not to say he won't do advertising. Of course, he'll do advertising. But the difference is you can't just look dollar for dollar what is being spent by one campaign to another campaign. If money was the metric of success, Donald Trump would not be the Republican nominee right now. Jeb Bush would have been.

BASH: No question.

(CROSSTALK)

LEWANDOWSKI: Or Ted Cruz or all the people that out raised him.

BASH: I'm with you on that. But now you had the ability to get the entirety of the Republican Party, the infrastructure, behind Donald Trump.

LEWANDOWSKI: And they are.

BASH: Money and -- but not really. I mean --

LEWANDOWSKI: Look who's behind Donald Trump. Mitch McConnell is behind him. Speaker Ryan is behind him. BASH: Half heartedly.

LEWANDOWSKI: Reince is behind him. Yeah, they're raising money.

BASH: But not Reince.

LEWANDOWSKI: Reince is raising money. The party is raising money. Mr. Trump is raising money for the party.

BASH: But he's not making it is easy for them.

LEWANDOWSKI: That's not true at all. That's not true at all. Mr. Trump has sat down and had meetings with all kinds of people who want to be part of the campaign. And we put a plan in place with the RNC so that they can have the resources necessary and Mr. Trump could be raising this money for the campaign, but he wants raise the money for the party, to make sure that the party has the resources and the boots on the ground and the data programs and the build-outs so they can be successful. The difference was --