Return to Transcripts main page
WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI
Record Number Of Voters Registered For Referendum; Jo Cox Widower: She Died For Her Political Views; Soros: Pound Could Crash If U.K. Leaves E.U.; Former Cameron Aide Speaks Ahead Of Vote; Clinton Rips Trump As Danger To Economy; Labs Ready To Test Olympic Athletes For Doping; Iraqi Forces Prepare For Next Major Battle; Jo Cox Widower: She Worried About Campaign Tone; English Communities Divided Over Europe; Security, Economy, Immigration All Part Of Debate; Senate Votes Down Four Gun Control Measures; Video Shows Spanking Of China Bank Workers. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired June 21, 2016 - 15:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:01:03] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We are live at CNN London. Thanks for being with us this
hour. This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
Campaigning is frantic, polls are neck and neck, and the world is watching. In less 48 hours, polls open for a crucial referendum on Britain's
relationship with the E.U.
And a record number of voters have signed up, 46.5 million people have registered according to the Electoral Commission here or are registered
with many that have newly registered. Prime Minister David Cameron earlier today made a passionate appeal for Britain to remain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Brits don't quit. We get involve. We take a lead. We make a difference. We get things done. If we left --
if we left our neighbors would go on meeting and make decisions that profoundly affect us, affect our country, affect our jobs, but we wouldn't
be there. They would be making decisions about us but without us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: But will it work? His appeal to the British public for months now. The tone though of this E.U. referendum campaign changed dramatically
last Thursday when a Member of Parliament, Jo Cox, 41 years old, and a mother of two, was fatally stabbed and shot while meeting with her
constituents in her own district.
Cox supported remaining in the European Union. Now, her widower, Brendan Cox, says he has no doubt about why his wife was targeted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENDAN COX, WIDOWER OF SLAIN BRITISH MP: She was a politician and she had very strong political views and I believe she was killed because of those
views. I think she died because of them. She would want to stand up for those in death as much as she did in life.
I don't want people ascribing views to her that she didn't have, but I want to continue to fight for the legacy and for the politics and the views she
espoused. It's what she was. She died for them. We definitely want to make sure that we continue to fight for them.
What the public support and outpouring of love around this does is it, it also helps the children see they are feeling other people are feeling. The
grief they feel isn't abnormal. They feel it more acutely and more painfully and more personally.
But their mother was someone who was loved by lots of people and therefore it's OK to be upset and it's OK for them to cry and to be sad about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: A very difficult time there for Brendan Cox having to explain to his two daughters what happened to their mother and why he believes it was
politically motivated. We'll have a lot more of that interview later this hour. A very emotional conversation.
For now, let's turn back to the campaign. What people are talking about and let's turn to the investors. They are of course closely watching the
mood and the polls ahead of Thursday's vote. There's a stark warning from one of those investors.
One of the best known the world, George Soros. He says if Britain votes to leave, the pound could crash as much as 20 percent. He said I want people
know what the consequences of leaving the E.U. would be before they cast their votes rather than after.
A vote to leave could see the week end with a Black Friday and serious consequences for ordinary people. Let's get more on this. Richard Quest
joins me now in the studio.
[15:05:01]So let's talk a little bit about George Soros because he knows a thing about the currency market. He made a fortune betting against the
pound in 1992.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN MONEY EDITOR-AT-LARGE: He did in the ERM, Black Wednesday and (inaudible). He hasn't done quite as well overall. He
became known as the man who broke the Bank of England. He made over a billion pounds in that one time.
As he said in this article in the "Garden" newspaper, he's had six decades of investing experience. When I read Soros' article this morning, and then
I heard Muriel Ravini (ph), a man who forecasted 2008, these are not your run of the mill economists from the IMF or the OECD. These are elephants,
if you like, in the world of investing.
GORANI: But George Soros, in particular, I mean, is someone who saw what exiting the ERM, the European Exchange Rate Mechanism essentially would do,
QUEST: He bet the British would not be able to defend the three Deutsch mark level against the pound. That was his dispatch.
GORANI: Why is a warning like his not taken extremely seriously by voters?
QUEST: It should be. This isn't the treasuries, you know, dossier on economics. He doesn't say in his article whether he's got a position at
the moment, but this is Soros basically dissecting the arguments and I know you're going to have an economist after --
GORANI: Ruth Lee, who is one of the rare economists and she might be watching us now, a chief economist in the city who is pro-Brexit.
QUEST: She believes that Soros is wrong. He does dissects the reasons. It's the first one I've seen do this. Why he believes sterling will not be
able to be supported in the same way.
GORANI: He's seen a level of what, 110, 105. If you look now we're close to -- we're at 146. We were under 141 just about five days ago. There's a
QUEST: The bounce back was yesterday.
GORANI: We're maintaining. Where are the nerves?
QUEST: This is the last five days. Today does very little at 30 percent or so.
GORANI: You see the big dip there when polls started indicating that perhaps an edge for the "leave."
QUEST: But I believe that that gain yesterday is wafer thin.
GORANI: We only have 48 hours left of whiffs. We'll see you at the top of the hour. Richard, thanks very much.
Now one of the key themes in this referendum debate, of course, is immigration, at least for the "leave" campaigners. David Cameron's former
aide, Steve Hilton, raised the topic again.
Now, this is man who says he's a friend of the prime minister and he worked with the prime minister. However, he says that David Cameron was warned
four years ago that his target to cut net immigration was unachievable, did not share it with the British public.
I spoke to Steve Hilton. He supports Brexit. I began by asking about that claim that he made that the prime minister knew that his promise could not
STEVE HILTON, SUPPORTS U.K. LEAVING THE E.U.: When I was working in government, we were told by officials that the target that we'd set for
bringing down the level of immigration was simply not possible to achieve as long as we were in the E.U.
That's one example of an argument I've been making in this campaign, which is that I think it's really important for the government of any country
that's elected by its citizens to be able to deliver it promises and take the actions it thinks are necessary to deliver a better economy and better
life for the people of that country.
And that's why I think we need to leave because it's simply undemocratic that a government can't actually do that.
GORANI: But you're saying that the pledge by the prime minister to limit net migration to 100,000. That was not achievable, that experts told him,
and that he did not communicate that to the British public.
HILTON: He wanted to achieve it. He worked very hard to achieve it. In fact, one of the consequences of trying to achieve it was do something I
thought was extraordinary, which was to actually clamp down on immigration from outside the E.U.
Immigration that actually could have been really good for our economy. People like entrepreneurs and scientists and those who could come here to
the U.K. and boost the economy. All those people had to be kept out in order that we --
GORANI: So you're saying he was dishonest with the British --
HILTON: I don't particularly want to personalize it because it's not just about him. It's about any prime minister in that situation.
GORANI: But in this case it is about him.
HILTON: Yes, but it's a broader point. The argument in the referendum campaign really is about how the country is run and whether any prime
minister in any government really has control over such an important issue affecting the economy and the society of that country.
[15:10:07]GORANI: Now 10 Downing Street is saying these conversations didn't happen, this isn't true?
HILTON: What else would you expect them to say? I mean, they're not going to acknowledge that something as fundamental as this --
GORANI: Are they lying about it now?
HILTON: They haven't actually gotten into the details of it because they don't want to talk about the details because it doesn't suit their case.
Now the truth is that any government in this situation can't control the level of immigration. Surely, it's not unreasonable that a government
should be able to do that. That's the argument for leaving is so strong.
GORANI: But you've been a great friend of David Cameron for many years. Have you heard reaction from him? I mean, has he reached out to you?
HILTON: No, we haven't been in touch. I don't think either of us would persuade the other. He's known that I've had this view about the E.U. for
many years. I've been very consistent about it. In fact at one point I did try and persuade him and others that leaving the E.U. should be
official policy for the British Toure Party. So it's not unusual I think for them to --
GORANI: But why do this now? I mean, you live in the United States. You have a tech company. You live in California. You have a happy life there.
Why fly all the way back to Britain to do this two days before the referendum? Something you know might deeply and severely hurt the prime
HILTON: Well, I've been here a week or so campaigning. I was here a few weeks before that. The reason is not just because I think it's good for
Britain to leave the E.U., I actually think it sends a really important message to the wider world and to everyone watching around the world.
Because what you've been seeing for the last few decades actually is a growing centralization of power in the hands of unelected bureaucrats that
really take power away from individual governments and people who elect them.
GORANI: Would you consider yourself still friends with David Cameron?
HILTON: I very much think that we're still friends. I think of him as one of my closest friends. I hope that this doesn't come in between us in
terms of our friendship. I also think he's the right person to lead person even as I hope we leave the E.U.
GORANI: You think he should stay on?
HILTON: I very much think he should stay on.
GORANI: Do you think it a mistake to call for a referendum?
HILTON: Well, I wasn't around when he made that decision. As I said, I think and I thought I have argued that it should be official, conservative
policy to leave the E.U. In other words, it wouldn't be necessary to have a referendum.
I can see the reason why he would want to take it out of the intricacies of party, politics, and personal relationships because it is a big question.
It does split people within parties and as we've seen even people who are very close to each other.
GORANI: Hillary Clinton slams Donald Trump today saying he's a threat to the U.S. economy and calling him dangerous, reckless and short on
specifics. The presumptive Democratic presidential nominee went after Trump in his speech a short time ago. She says her Republican rival has
bankrupted four of his companies and should not be allowed to bankrupt America too.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The king of debt has no real plan for making college debt payable back or making college debt free.
This is a crisis that affects so many of our people. He has no credible plan for rebuilding our infrastructure, apart from the wall that he wants
to build. Personally, I'd rather spend our money or rebuilding our schools or modernizing our energy grid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Trump has already fired back on Twitter as he often does. He says, "I'm the quote, "king of debt." That has been great for me as a
businessman but is bad for the country. I made a fortune off of debt. Will fix U.S."
Let's bring in the executive editor for CNN Politics, Mark Preston. He is joining us from New York. So Hillary Clinton was in Ohio, very important
swing state in the general election.
On the economy according to a latest poll, she's trailing behind Donald Trump. This economic speech would have been important for her. Showing
our viewers that asked among registered voters, who do you trust to fix the economy? Donald Trump 51 percent. Hillary Clinton, 43 percent. So this
is important for her, Mark.
MARK PRESTON, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, CNN POLITICS: It is, Hala. Listen, the economy, even with all these other things that are going on around the
world, the threat of terrorism and what have you, the economy is still paramount to what is on the top of people's minds here in the United
Now she is down eight points to Donald Trump when it does come to the issue of the economy and that's because Donald Trump has done a very effective
job of selling himself as a problem solver, a successful businessman, and somebody that can help bring jobs back to the United States.
Now it is by no surprise that Hillary Clinton would go to the state of Ohio. A state here in the U.S. that has lost a lot of manufacturing jobs
to overseas competitors where factories have packed up and gone down to Mexico or over to India or what have you.
[15:15:02]So her going to Ohio was a critical play on her part to talk about the economy but also a state that plays an important part in electing
of presidents here in the U.S.
GORANI: And there's some remarkable campaign expenditure numbers that many people outside the United States and perhaps inside the United States would
not be aware of because they see Donald Trump so much on their television.
The Clinton campaign had $42 million in the bank as of the last day of May. Trump just had $1.3 million. Now the Clinton camp has reserved $117
million in television ads. Trump, zero. Staffing, Trump has 69 people on his payroll. His fired his campaign manager yesterday compared to Hillary
Clinton's 685 on her staff.
At some point this has got to make a difference in the performance in the polls, right. There's so much more of an infrastructure behind Hillary
PRESTON: No question. Look, Donald Trump was able to win the Republican primary here based upon his cult of personality and the fact that he was
able to command the TV air waves and able to preach a type of populism that played well with primary voters.
To your point, you have Hillary Clinton right now that has a national infrastructure in place where she is not only equipped to raise the amount
of money to help pay for the campaign, but she has staffers on the ground who are trying to identify voters here in specific states to support her.
Donald Trump doesn't have that scale right now. When we saw his campaign manager get fired yesterday, a lot had to do with the fact Donald Trump
didn't have the money and they didn't have the infrastructure --
GORANI: Does he have the time at this stage? This was a very long process for Hillary Clinton, someone who has run before, so she has that
experience. Does Donald Trump have the time and the expertise within his campaign to catch up in that department?
PRESTON: Let me just answer this very simply and quickly. We'll see in the next two and three weeks. It will be critical to Donald Trump's
campaign right now. They have one campaign manager who is overseeing everything. He's supposed to have the understanding and know-how of how to
do so. If he's not able to do it before the convention which will happen in a few weeks then that's going to be very hurtful to the Trump campaign.
GORANI: All right. Mark Preston, thanks very much. Always enjoy having you on the program.
Still to come, tonight, officials step up anti-doping efforts ahead of the Olympic Games in Rio de Janeiro. The details on that are coming up next.
The Iraqi military and its partners are winning back Falluja one building at a time. Find out what they are setting their sights on next. We'll
have a report from inside Iraq, coming up.
GORANI: A little more than a month before the start of the Rio games and the International Olympic Committee has focused on keeping them free from
[15:20:02]The IOC met in Switzerland at a summit where it announced its anti-doping plans. In one measure, athletes from Russia and Kenya will
need to be individually evaluated in order to be declared eligible to compete. The reason is because of the unsatisfactory state of the two
countries national anti-doping bodies.
The IOC also said it supports the ban on Russian track and field athletes by the International Association of Athletics Federation. But it said some
Russians could still take part if they're cleared by the IAAF. Olympic organizers say they intend to make sure that no other athletes cheat their
way to Olympic gold.
Our Nick Paton Walsh visited a lab in Rio de Janeiro that is ready to put Olympic competitors to the test.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the race to Rio to be ready, few final tweaks matter more than in this one
room, Brazil's 24-hour anti-doping laboratory for the Olympics. Testing 6,000 tiny samples from athletes in the games each able to crush a
Where nations will be desperate for a clean slate after allegations of doping on a state sponsored industrial scale. Russian track and field
stars banned for now. Russia has categorically denied all allegations, but says it needs to regain trust. Here they're hoping to stay clear of
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we are not in the good times, maybe we're really cleaning the system now.
WALSH (on camera): Doping risks overwhelming the Olympics introducing geo political rivalry, corruption, and essentially cheating at the heart of
(voice-over): Here urine is stripped down to the core molecules, these spectrograms then identified, but it's before this stage that samples were
allegedly tampered with in the 2014 Sochi games.
Russia accused staggering abusing its security services, its new KGB, to tamper with supposedly tamper proof bottles allegedly using this hole in
the laboratory wall to switch samples. With each bottle having a special random number on its seal, how do you do that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Millions of different caps. Different tubes, open a bottle and close it with another.
WALSH (on camera): So you basically have to be the people making the bottle to be able to --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Almost, yes, or have a factory of that to be able to fabricate it.
WALSH: But it's almost possible to be sure if countries are willing to do that kind of thing, that level of planning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's really hard to reach that point. You need to involve, well, high ranking officials from the country from the country
anti-doping agency, from the direction of the laboratory from the technicians, so it's to do that is kind of hard, I think.
WALSH (voice-over): This where the cold gray wearing of science collides with that underworld of alleged breathtaking deception.
GORANI: All right, senior international correspondent, Nick Payton Walsh joins me now from Rio de Janeiro with more. How will it work for these
athletes that need to clear their names and take additional steps in order to compete like the Russians or the Kenyans? Would they do this also in
Rio? How would it work?
WALSH: Not particularly easy to understand scheme that the IOC chief told us back later earlier on today. The Russian and Kenyan athletes from all
different disciplines are being told that they can't rely on their own national anti-doping mechanism to give them a clean slate of health. That
their presumption of innocence has been taking away.
And they are effectively now have to use independent anti-doping testing to prove their innocence again. Now through the different international
federations for the different disciplines they wish to compete in.
It appears, though, the track and field athlete, Russians will not be permitted to compete in these games no matter what extra level of proof is
put through. That seems pretty clear at this stage.
So a lot I think that the Kenyans will have to do in a short period of time ahead. A lot of potential (inaudible). These tests will not take place in
Rio, but other independent areas too. All eyes on that laboratory you're seeing who have an enormously politicized and intense scrutinize job ahead
of them for 6,000 samples during the games themselves -- Hala.
GORANI: So they have the doping issue. They also have the security issue. We saw in your piece yesterday, pickpockets are taking advantage of the big
crowds. How much of a concern is it when really the crowds descend on Rio and other parts of Brazil?
WALSH: They're not even here yet and there are supposed to be half a million and still it's a drip, drip of athletes here rehearsing, training,
being attacked. An Australian paralympian (inaudible) on Sunday attacked at a beach not far from where I'm standing at gunpoint robbed of her bike.
She's gone home now, back to Australia.
[15:25:03]But the Australian Olympic officials said we're thinking about bringing private security for protection for our athletes here. The
supposed hundred thousand Brazilian security personnel on the streets here haven't materialized.
They would like to see them there earlier. This isn't the first time we have seen athletes here rehearsing rob or mugged at some stage. Street
crime is a serious issue. Increasing because of the recession here.
The police, struggling with their budgets declaring state of emergency as a state here on Friday citing the potential for failing funding security
personnel too. And Hala, just one other staggering thing that's occurred in the last 48 hours.
On Sunday morning, a hospital, one of five designated to treat Olympic visitors here came under a gun attack. Inside was an alleged drug kingpin
known as "Fat Family," 20 masked men arrived there, tried to free him. They succeeded.
The shootout killed one, injured many others, gunfire, explosions in the hospital corridors here. Absolutely staggering. The closest hospital to
the stadium where the Olympic opening ceremony will occur. A lot here building up in terms of worries. So little time ahead before the games
begin -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much. Nick Paton Walsh is in Rio.
Now a 15-year-old boy is dead and the Israeli military is saying it was a mistake. The country's military says soldiers shot and killed a 15-year-
old Palestinian boy today mistakenly believing he was involved this a stone throwing incident.
A Palestinian official says Mahmud Rafat Badhran (ph) was in fact on his way home from a swimming pool in the west bank when the car he was
traveling in came under fire. Several other Palestinians were wounded in the shooting.
The Israeli military says it was responding to an attack on cars nearby. It says Palestinian threw rocks and Molotov cocktails as Israeli vehicles
injuring three civilians.
The Israeli military says troops, quote, "fired towards suspects," but then later identified those hit were, in fact, bystanders.
Well, it's been a down and out fight but the Iraqi Army is slowly retaking Falluja from ISIS. It's now regained control of the city's main hospital.
Success in Falluja has the Iraqi military looking toward its next major challenge and that's a bigger prize, Mosul. Ben Wedeman shows us the
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the road north of Baghdad, Iraqi Armed Forces assemble for the next battle in
the war against ISIS.
(on camera): This massive military column, I counted more than 250 vehicles is headed north. It's headed to the province where Mosul is
located. Even though the battle of Falluja is still raging, what's clear is the Iraqi Army is preparing for the next phase, the last phase of this
war in Iraq, the liberation of Mosul.
(voice-over): Two years ago, this army was in full retreat. Driven out of Mosul by ISIS. It lost one city after another. It was on the verge of
Today the tide appears to have turned. The government is taken back to Ramadi and fighting to drive the extremists out of Falluja. With this army
says defense minister, (inaudible), we'll wipe ISIS out. God willing, this is the beginning of the Iraq in Iraq.
The convoy passed through Tikrit until just over a year ago the city was under ISIS control. The brutal former masters of the city now despised.
There are rats and dogs.
It took well over an hour for all the vehicles to rumble through Tikrit. The battle for Mosul won't be easy and it won't be brief. Perhaps, the
cheering is premature. Ben Wedeman, CNN, Tikrit, Iraq.
GORANI: Still ahead, more from the emotional interview with Jo Cox's widower, Brendan Cox. What he says his wife thought about the tone of the
E.U. referendum debate where she was murdered last week in broad daylight. We'll bring you that next.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: A record number of voters have registered ahead of Thursday's U.K. referendum on the E.U. In total, 46.5
million are registered to vote according to the Electoral Commission. Prime Minister David Cameron, earlier today, made another appeal to voters
to remain in the E.U. saying, quote, "Brits don't quit."
Among the other stories we're following, Hillary Clinton says Donald trump would be a danger to the American economy. She blasted her Republican
presidential rival a short time ago calling him the king of debt. The presumptive Democratic nominee says Trump has no real plan to improve
America's finances and is full of empty promises.
There's been more trouble during Euro 2016. Police had to use tear gas and water canon again against scuffling fans before Poland's game against
Ukraine and Marseille. Police say they arrested six people. Poland went on to win the match 1-0.
She met the world with love is what Brendan Cox, the widower of murdered British MP Jo Cox says about his wife. She was killed Thursday in an
attack that has changed the tone of the referendum debate in this country.
Earlier this hour, you heard Brendan Cox say he believes Jo was killed for her political views. He also spoke about what he called the worrying tone
in politics today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENDAN COX, WIDOWER OF SLAIN BRITISH MP: I think she worried we were entering in age that we haven't seen maybe since the 1930s of and people
feeling insecure for lots of different reasons, for economic reasons or security reasons and then populist politicians whether that's Trump in the
U.S. or whoever else exploiting that and driving communities to hate each other.
Saying the reason you don't have a job or the reason that you're feeling insecure is because of this powerless person, not because of choices that
we're making. That was driving people, it was creating an atmosphere of hatred and playing in people's fears. She felt it in her own constituency.
She thought about it globally as something she was scared about. As we know that Jo was a passionate pro-European. She campaigned on it. If she
was alive on her birthday, tomorrow, she would have been out on the streets trying to convince people that we're betting together and working together.
She definitely worried about the tone of the debate around. There aren't completely legitimate views on both sides of the debate. She completely
respected that people could disagree for very good reason, but more about the tone of whipping up fears and whipping up hatred, potentially. So she
was definitely worried about that.
[15:35:00]At least not just about the E.U. referendum. I think the E.U. referendum has created a more heightened environment for it. But actually,
it also preexisted that. It's something that's happened over the last few years. Not just in the U.K. but globally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Brendan Cox, the widower of Jo Cox, the MP who was murdered last week in her constituency.
Let's bring in CNN's Nic Robertson. He is with me here in London. I wonder how much has it changed the debate in Britain, the murder of Jo Cox
because now her husband is coming out and saying I believe that this toxic political discourse may have had something to do with her murder.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Sure. There's that belief in Birstall. That's what the community there broadly speaking
believes. You know, inevitably I was speaking to another journalist the other evening, we were talking about it.
After every killing, in every funeral, the family would say we hope this means something. We hope it changes everything. You know, I think the
country is with Brendan Cox, for the most part on this.
They would like to see a change and people have been happy that it was being toned down. But I think the nature of the debate that we are hearing
tonight, the last major political Brexit debate --
GORANI: Let's talk about that. There's a debate going on now which is two hours. It's airing on the BBC. Huge audience.
ROBERTSON: Live in front of an audience. There's 6,000 people. I've been listening to it. Both sides have been making their points. It's been very
personal. This is something we understood who's going to get away from. One side called and the other sides name and you should know better.
And with the crowd, the "boos" and the cheers, and you know, this is the sort of environment where you have a boxing match. It's not -- it seems to
me conducive to what Brendan Cox and people seemed to want to aspire to which is a better environment.
It's an environment that whether they like it or not things are so tense, points are so important to score that it's going back to the old formula of
name calling (inaudible) tonight.
GORANI: Name calming and personal attacks. I don't know where else that is going on right now. I can't think that quickly. Just kidding. But I
mean, you know, we're seeing it in other elections. Regarding Britain, though, if you look at the polls we're very close neck and neck. You still
have a group of undecideds. What's going to sway them either way?
ROBERTSON: Well, people they trust. We've heard personalities coming at it. David Beckham saying he supports the campaign. You know, for every
vote (inaudible) out there, they may look to one person, not so much politicians, but they may look to people who they respect for other
David Beckham is well liked and well lift in this country. Every vote is going to count. But I think what's going to sway them at this moment is
certainly some of the undecideds we thought over the weekend was swayed by Jo Cox's murder.
They were tending towards leave. Now they are tending back to remain. Will they still feel that way in another two days' time? But you know for
a lot of people, when they watch the debate on television, tonight I think it's going to be very hard for them to be able to say I heard a new winning
It's the same arguments, however, they are put in such strong terms. But when you listen to the audience, it's a two hour debate. I've listen to
the first half an hour. I sense more cheers for the "leave" campaign who are fielding the same team as they did in the last big three debate.
They seem to be more cohesive together. You got the sense that while the "remain" campaign was sounding individually strong, there was a sense that
they were trying to pull it back from the brink and it didn't seem that was working so well with the audience. If the larger audience is watching
television, if that's anything to go by, we'll see.
GORANI: All right, we shall see indeed. Just two more days to go. Thanks very much, Nic Robertson. We mentioned the latest polls indicate the
referendum vote is too close to call. In many small communities opinion on the European Union is also split. It's a major boost for local economies
or is it instead expensive drag on tradition industry. CNN's Fred Pleitgen tested the waters on England's north east coast.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As Britain races towards its E.U. referendum, Kevin Anderson hopes his country
stays the European course.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the top to the center --
PLEITGEN: Kevin owns a kite surfing and water sports school on the east coast and says the E.U. has been good for business.
KEVIN ANDERSON, KA WATERSPORTS: I rely on people to have the cash to spend with me to learn and enjoy the activities that we do. I believe that if we
do leave, it will affect the economy and people will have less money in their pockets.
PLEITGEN: The turbulent run up to the June 23rd vote has dragged the "leave" and the "remain" campaigns into a divisive war of words. This
region like so many others remains undecided. Many residents praise the European Union for enforcing common environmental standards, important in
an area with vast nature reserves and bathing spots.
[15:40:05](on camera): E.U. regulations, for instance, on water quality have done a lot to help clean up England's beaches, the folks here tell us
and they say that's helped boost the tourism sector. But of course, there are also older, more traditional industries in this region that have
suffered and many hold the E.U. accountable.
(voice-over): Most of the trollers (ph) lay idle in the once proud fishing town of Scarborough. Only one vessel still regularly heads out to see.
The fish auction, like the day's catch, a sad sight. Darren Butcher (ph) has seen Scarborough's fleet and with it this town declined for years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a big market twenty years ago. The market full of fish, three times a week at least. It's gone from that to no boats or
very few boats. They put a wall.
PLEITGEN: Most fishermen blame E.U. quotas for their woes and many of them say they will vote out this Thursday. Kevin Anderson on the other hand
says he'll cast his ballot to remain. Fearing the uncertainty of a Brexit could cause Britain's economy to go out of control and possibly crash.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Bethenil (ph), England.
GORANI: My next guest is one of the few economists will be voting to leave the E.U. It is Ruth Lea. She's an economic advisor with Arbuthnot Banking
Group and a supporter of Britain leaving the E.U. Thanks again for being with us.
I want to ask you about George Soros. Now George Soros knows a thing or two about the currency markets. He made his fortune in 1992 when he made
the right bet when Britain opted out of the ERM. Why not believe him now when he says if the U.K. leaves the E.U., we'll see a Black Friday with the
pound possibly losing more than 20 percent?
RUTH LEA, ARBUTHNOT BANKING GROUP: I remember 1992 very well. He put a pretty safe bet on it because the time the currency was utterly, utterly
unsustainable. We were in a recession. We have currency, which was far too valuable with very, very high interest rates. So he was right then.
But this time, I suspect come Friday and I wouldn't say it's Black Friday. It is going to be white Friday for some of us. There will be a run on the
pound. I have very little doubt on it. The markets are expecting that and probably on the FTSE will come down.
But if it really looks as though it's getting out of control, I would expect the Bank of England and probably the European Central Bank to
intervene to actually stable --
GORANI: DO you think the European Central Bank after having being told by Britain that, you know, they're not interested in being part of the this
monetary economic or political union will come bail out the U.K. if the pound crashes?
LEA: They don't want volatile exchange rates. They wouldn't want the euro appreciating very much against the pound. I think they will be prepared to
be involved in supporting the currency and stabilizing the currency market if it got to that point.
GORANI: All right, then you don't believe it will, though?
LEA: No, I don't. But there will be some weakness in the currency I suspect on Friday.
GORANI: Now you're one of the -- a very prominent economist here in the U.K. and one of the few we have to be said who supports Brexit if you look
at the major associations, the business owners, economists in the city, most of them support remaining in the U.K.
But one of the questions that many people have asked me and I don't have the answer because I haven't been in the "leave" camp as involved in it as
you, how do you have a free trade agreement between the U.K. and the E.U. without a free movement of people in which it gets you right back where you
LEA: Because the simple reason is that the European Union has about 35 trade agreements. Only two of them involve freedom of the people. One is
the European economic area. One that includes Norway and the other is a bilateral with Switzerland. All other free trade agreements whether it's
with Turkey or with Korea or with Chile or with Mexico, none of them involve the freedom of movement to people. I have little doubt that the
British government (inaudible) other Europeans.
GORANI: So you wouldn't want a Norway model?
LEA: No. I wouldn't because the immigration obviously as you've been discussing recently. This has been a big issue in this particular
campaign. When you think about immigration, I have little doubt that the British government would want to get control over the borders and if you
have freedom of movement of people, of course, you cannot have that with other E.U. nationals.
GORANI: But how can you tell people who are undecided now that it will be walk in the park for the U.K. to renegotiate not just its trade deal with
the E.U. By the way, it won't have a seat at the table when E.U. members, the 27 remaining talk among themselves but with every other single country
the E.U. has a trade deal with. We're talking dozens more. How is that going to work?
LEA: Dealing with those countries first, for example, Korea or Chile or Mexico or wherever. If you go to these countries and say do you want to
continue this trade agreement, shake hands on it, and that's it.
GORANI: Do you think it's that easy? Continue with what the trade agreement that the E.U. had (inaudible) with Korea?
LEA: It's called the continuity of treaties. I does have to have mutual agreement, mind you. But I cannot say if these countries want the trade
with us, we're a big lucrative market for a lot of these countries particularly Korea, then they would want to continue with it.
When it comes to the European Union, it depends on who calls the shots. We have a trade deficit with Germany and Germany you can argue is Europe's
[15:45:07]I suspect the German government would be very, very be keen to have a trade agreement --
GORANI: Well, the German government will not want to set an example of one major country like the U.K. leaving and then rewarding it with exactly the
same arrangement they had before.
LEA: Well, they have to decide whether they want a commercially rational treaty or whether they don't. And I suggest at the end of the way, there
will be commercially rational. They want to push ahead with it and also there is something called Article 8 in the (inaudible) treaty that talks
about good neighbor in us. So we're a neighbor. Come on, let's have good neighbors.
GORANI: All right. We'll see how it all develops. We'll know soon enough. Ruth Lea, always a pleasure. Thank you very much for being on the
Still to come, the White House calls it a shameful display of cowardice. It's criticizing the American Senate for rejecting four separate gun
control measures in the wake of the Orlando massacre. We'll be right back.
GORANI: We're learning new details about the gunman behind the Orlando mass shooting. Law enforcement officials say he went to the Pulse
Nightclub twice on the night of the attack. They say he paid the entry fee, obtained a wristbands and entered the club possibly to conduct
He then left and returned later to carry out the massacre. The gunman's wife said he was angry when he left home that night and was carrying a bag
Now, speaking of gun, the White House is criticizing the U.S. Senate today for voting down four gun control measures after the massacre. Some bills
were sponsored by Democrats, others by Republicans.
A moderate Republican senator is now working on a compromise measure that she says would keep guns out of the hands of terrorists. Here is what
White House spokesperson, Josh Earnest, told CNN this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESPERSON: What we saw last night in the United States Senate was shameful display of cowardice. I don't know what
else to call it when you have Republicans who spend a week, after the worst mass shooting in American history, running around saying radical Islam to
anybody that will listen.
But when it comes time for them to actually do something to prevent those violent extremists from getting their hands on a gun, they don't do
anything about it. They continue to protect a loophole that allows individuals who are suspected of having ties to terrorism to be able to
walk into a gun store and buy a gun.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The White House press secretary. Let's bring in senior political reporter, Manu Raju. He joins us from Capitol Hill in Washington. Those
in favor on Capitol Hill, these gun control measures believed possibly that in the aftermath of the Orlando massacre, there would be more political
will to get these measures passed. It didn't work out that way. Why not?
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, Republicans and Democrats had different ideas on how to deal with the issue of gun violence and
specifically how to prevent suspected terrorists from getting guns. Both sides presented alternative measures. Both failed.
[15:50:01]One reason they were different in significant ways. The Democrats wanted to have a very broad bill, anyone on a so-called terror
watch list and that includes thousands of people they should not be allowed to get firearms according to the Democratic bill.
The Republicans believed that that was too broad. It would have swept up average Americans and they oppose it for that reason. Republicans propose
something else. They want the attorney general and FBI and the courts to examine whether or not someone should be on that list before determining
whether or not they should get a firearm.
Democrats said that was too onerous and it would not work and they voted against that. And so as a result, they had stalemate and we'll see if they
are actually have a chance at a bipartisan compromise.
GORANI: And we know that Senator Susan Collins introduced a proposal designed to ban gun sales to those -- I mean, a compromise proposal.
What's in that compromise? Is it more likely to succeed?
RAJU: Well, this compromise bill is much narrower than the Democratic bill. It would only target a subset of folks on that so-called the terror
watch list. Maybe hundreds of people instead of thousands of people.
In addition, it would give the right of people to appeal the decision to the federal government if they are denied a firearm trying to address those
But there are still significant concerns on the Republican side and the Democratic side about how this is structured. I say the chances right now,
Hala, are very slim.
GORANI: But why is it so difficult? We're talking very incremental small measures, not about, for instance, banning the sale out right of weapons
like the AR-15. But what is perceived from the outside as being pretty small measures, there's still having a lot of trouble getting passed. I
mean, what is the origin of that?
RAJU: Well, there are many reasons. It's such a polarizing issue, the issue of gun control in this country. We have not seen a significant bill
passed in nearly a decade and this is an issue that really drives the national elections. We're in the middle of a heated campaign.
The National Rifle Association is opposed to this bill, this Susan Collins plan and that is very influential with Republicans. But on the Democratic
side, they don't necessarily want to give up a potent election year issue of gun control by backing the Collins bill, which they believe it's watered
down and ineffective.
They don't believe it's very effective. So you have the political considerations and the policy concerns and it's a very difficult time get
anything done in such a polarizing election environment -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. Manu Raju on Capitol Hill, thanks very much. Appreciate it. Don't forget. You can get the latest news, interviews and
analysis on our Facebook page, facebook.com/halagoranicnn.
Coming up, a corporate coach caught on camera spanking employees. We'll explain this bizarre scene and the intense backlash that it created.
GORANI: Some of you might have taken part in awkward team building exercises at work but this one crosses the line. Eight Chinese employees
were spanked in front of their colleagues for poor performance. The video was posted online and has now gone viral. Linda Kincaid has that.
LINDA KINCAID, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The video is painful to watch. Eight employees at Bank of China stand on stage in front of their
colleagues after finishing at the bottom of a team building exercise.
[15:55:01]A corporate coach wielding a long wooden paddle shouts at the four men and four women. Then he begins to strike them on their rear end.
The paddle landing each time with a loud crack. He walks up and down the line spanking each of the bank employees a total of four times. One hit
throws a woman off balance. She cries out.
Some members of the audience can be seen turning their heads away in embarrassment. Posted on China's version of Twitter, the video has gone
viral triggering a storm of criticism directed at the bank.
The corporate coach is now apologizing saying he should improve his teaching methods. The bank supervisory board says it's removed two
executives from their posts. Linda Kincaid, CNN.
GORANI: All right. Certainly awkward. Stay with us on CNN after the break. More on the top story recapping today. We're 48 hours away only
from one of the most crucial of votes in British history whether to remain in the E.U. or leave the E.U.
Polls have been close, but there's still many people undecided. Right now, a debate is going on at the BBC. Thousands of people will hear the
arguments on both sides that have gotten fiery and personal.
A lot more with Richard Quest at the top of the hour on Brexit. I'm Hala Gorani. I'll see you next time.