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WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI
Newspapers Take Sides In Referendum Debate; Vigils Held In Memory Of Jo Cox; Clinton Responds To Donald Trump's Attacks; McIlroy Says No To Olympics Over Zika Fears; Isinbayeva Confident Of Representing Russia In Rio; Markets Nervous Amid Uncertainly Ahead Of Vote; Some Economists Warn Brexit Could Lead To Recession; Clinton Responds To Trump's Attacks; Trump Directs Some Campaign Funds To Own Businesses; Led Zeppelin Case Now In Hands Of Jury. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired June 22, 2016 - 15:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We are live in CNN London. Welcome to the program. This is THE WORLD
In just 11 hours, people here in the United Kingdom will start casting their votes in the most important referendum in a generation. Stay in or
leave the European Union?
All sides have been campaigning extra hard in the final day, with the outcome too close to call according to the polls at least. Now David
Cameron campaigned with a former Prime Minister John Major to push for a "remain" vote.
The "leave" side was also out in force with UKIP's leader, Nigel Farage, saying the referendum campaign has changed British politics. All of this
as memorials were held in memory of MP Jo Cox, who was murdered on what would have been today her 42nd birthday.
Let's get more on all of this, Richard Quest joins me now in the studio. Richard, you've been looking at some of the papers. Lay them down right
RICHARD QUEST, CNN MONEY EDITOR-AT-LARGE: "The Sun" out. "The Mirror," in.
GORANI: And here "The Guardian." Wait a minute, that's "The Mirror" show us "The Sun" because "The Sun" is using --
QUEST: The queen.
GORANI: -- her majesty, the queen.
QUEST: Nothing like taking the queen who's scrutinacy neutral and trying to suggest that the queen is euroskeptic.
GORANI: OK, but it's -- you know, "The Sun" tabloid newspaper -- here we have David Beckham on the front page of "The Guardian."
QUEST: Beckham and Victoria both advancing strong arguments for remain.
GORANI: OK, and what are those strong arguments?
QUEST: In Beckham's case, he talks about his children, we want to be of something better and bigger, and the football as argument that it's easier
(inaudible) when he played, it was the ability to bring in players from other parts of Europe easily.
GORANI: And this close, I was going to say, this close to the first votes being cast, will something like this change anything?
QUEST: Yes, because you've got Beckham who is clearly very populist in the sense of how he will appeal to things. Compare it to the biggest selling
newspaper, which is against membership of the E.U.
GORANI: And "The Sun" readers that are also fans of David Beckham.
GORANI: I want our viewers to listen to David Cameron because this is really his final push today. This is what he had to say on the eve of the
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: One word that brings it all into one which is together because, frankly, if we want the bigger economy and
better jobs we're better if we do it together. If we want to fight climate change, we're better if we do it together. If we want to fight the
terrorists and keep our country safe, we're better if we do it together.
Please give it everything you've got in these last hours to make sure that people go out and vote tomorrow, go out and vote remain, go out and vote
remain for a bigger, better, Britain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: There's just nothing passionate about an argument that says you're better together with Europe and you've got Sir John Major, the former prime
minister, arguably, the best prime minister that the U.K. has ever had. I mean, he was more passionate in Downing Street yesterday. Brits are not
quitters. He was more passionate in the BBC debate when he talked about my office is two yards from where Winston Churchill said we will make it.
GORANI: That's when he was accused of being the navel chamberlain of modern times, he took that --
GORANI: Boris Johnson, now love him or hate him. He is a guy who's got this passion. But let's listen to what he had to say today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, FORMER LONDON MAYOR: This is our only chance in our lifetimes to take back control from a dysfunctional European Union that is
unelected, unaccountable and fundamentally unreformed. It is not changed. And you know, we got -- I'm afraid we didn't get anything in that deal in
February. There was no real change to our border arrangements. No real change in the way it runs our lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:05:08]GORANI: He's at a fishery factory where he's got a receptive audience in that type of environment.
QUEST: Yes. It's a great debate in Wimbley Arena yesterday. He came up and said basically, let's make Thursday Britain's Independence Day. That
is the sort of argument that will resonate in a certain heartland of the United Kingdom, unlike the prime minister's let's do it all together.
GORANI: Can you explain something to me because you were on a tour of the United Kingdom last week. From the outside looking in for a non-Brit like
myself, I don't see where Britain has lost control, it controls its borders. It controls its currency. It controls its interest rates. It's
got opt out clauses for immigration laws. Where is the loss of control here? Am I missing something?
QUEST: You're missing the fact that in the European Communities Act of the 1970s, the clause says there is a supremacy of European law. So, you take
certain decisions by the European Court of Justice, and they will say this is the law. Criminals have to have these rights.
You can't request from people like that. You talk about the council which will make a decision that Britain has to follow or it loses by quality
majority vote. But, Hala, the only way to make the whole thing to work is to have that supremacy of European law among the Brits to say whether it's
bananas of funny shape.
Many of which are myths, by the way, that's what people believed. Most important of all, they say they want control of our borders.
GORANI: All right, that's certainly the main theme of the leave campaign. The remains have a completely different view on these thing.
GORANI: Completely. We'll see you at the top of the hour in "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS." Richard, thank you very much.
While the campaigning continued fervently, there were emotional scenes as well today. People around the world paid tribute to Jo Cox, the MP, who
was murdered last week.
In London, people gathered in Trafalgar Square on what would have been Cox's 42nd birthday today, she would have turned 42. Her husband addressed
the crowd calling the killing an act of terror.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENDAN COX, WIDOWER OF SLAIN MP JO COX: Jo's killing was political. It was an act of terror designed to advance hatred towards others. What a
beautiful irony it is that an act designed to advance hatred has brought such an outpouring of love.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Let's get more on this, Nic Robertson, joins me now. I wonder, obviously, the mood was somber. Did this murder -- I mean, what are people
telling you about what -- and the husband -- the widower of Jo Cox says he believes it was politically motivated. Is this changing people's decisions
regarding the referendum potentially?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, certainly, this was an incredibly emotional gathering, several thousand people in Trafalgar
Square today. One of the beautiful moments was when the crowd gave huge applause to a school choir of tiny children, children from the school of Jo
and Brendon Cox's son. They came all the way from Yorkshire. They sang a song before the audience.
But you also had a song from Bono from U2. It was incredibly emotional and moving. But is it moving the country? Well, over the weekend there was a
lot of talk about changing the tone of the debate, changing the tone where politicians aren't accusing each other personally by name of lying.
But we had a debate on the television just last night and it was as vociferous as vicious as any of any of the other debates maybe even more so
in front of a crowd of 6,000 people. So although Jo Cox today was remembered for the love that she showed of building bridges and of bringing
people together of uniting people of all sorts of different backgrounds.
It seems that a political debate has returned precisely to where it was, which was very much of one side calling the other, accusing them of lying -
GORANI: And Gordon Brown, by the way, who was instrumental during the Scottish referendum in campaigning for Scotland to remain part of the
United Kingdom, he probably gave his most impassioned speech and made his most impassioned plea for Britons to remain inside the E.U.
[15:10:03]ROBERTSON: It was one, I think, perhaps the standout speeches of the whole referendum campaign and certainly of Sir Gordon Brown in recent
In Scotland, he went there at the time, and he is a Scot, of course, at the time when it seemed that the Scots were about to vote to leave the U.K., to
leave Great Britain. He gave a very passionate speech.
His speech this evening, he was on a tour bus with David Cameron, the current prime minister, with politicians from other parties, the Green
Party, from the SLP Party, from the Trade Union Congress, a whole cross section of people.
And he invoked Winston Churchill's memory. He invoked everything sort of good about Britain in his eyes. He was able to sort of raise the
crescendos, let the tone drop away, and bring it back up. This here is just a small flavor of what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORDON BROWN, FORMER BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: For a thousand years Europe was at war, nations fighting nations, tribes fighting tribes. Our great,
great grandfathers died at Waterloo and Crimean. Our grandfathers of fathers were fighting of the Second World War and battles in Berlin, when
women and children were dying on the home front as a result of it. And no, there is no war. Europe is at peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. Nic Robertson, thanks very much there. Gordon Brown making the case. We'll see if it sways any voters. Thanks very much for
Let's take you live to Raleigh, North Carolina, Hillary Clinton is speaking live now. She and rival Donald Trump has been engaging in a lively war of
words. Donald Trump said she is corrupt. She gave secret speeches and couldn't be trusted. Here is what she is saying right now.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: -- we will sharp the course for the future that we want and deserve. Thank you and God bless you!
GORANI: All right. Well, we were able to hear her say thank you. We do know that she also, of course, took aim at Donald Trump. Josh Rogin is our
CNN political analyst. He joins us from Washington with more.
This is getting serious. Donald Trump is really lashing out at Hillary Clinton. His campaign isn't necessarily going as well as he'd like. Right
now, he called her corrupt, probably the most corrupts of all candidates saying that because of what happened with her private e-mail server she
couldn't be trusted, that she gave secret speeches.
What about her response? What should we make of how she attacked back?
JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it was very interesting because Donald Trump's speech focused heavily on Hillary Clinton's time as
secretary of state. He made a bunch unsubstantiated claims of her actions during the night of the Benghazi attack. Her policies leading to the
deaths of thousands of Americans. Her position on the war in Libya and Iraq.
The corruption in the Clinton Foundation, some of these have been reported and some of these he was pulling out of hole cloth. But rather than
respond directly, what we saw from Hillary Clinton in the speech just now was that she was attacking him on the economic issues.
She was really focusing on the things that she wanted to focus on. She's made a bunch of speeches calling Donald Trump unfit to be commander-in-
chief. Now she's focusing on what she thinks the voters are focused on and that's health care, child care, women's rights, family rights, you know,
the problems with the economy in the state that she's in. So that's her response. It's been very interesting.
GORANI: All right, we know she, of course, defended the Clinton Foundation. Let's talk about why Hillary Clinton is choosing to focus on
the economy. I mean, in all the polls, recent polls I've seen, registered voters say they trust Donald Trump more to handle the economy than Hillary
She's trying to redress that clearly by focusing on that strategy. She had that one-liner, that zinger, I believe she tweeted saying Donald Trump has
written a lot of books about business. They all seem in end in Chapter 11, et cetera, et cetera. Is this strategy going to work for her?
ROGIN: Yes, I think you're exactly right. There's two things going on here. One, that Hillary Clinton does not want the debate to be about her
time as secretary of state. It's complicated. People don't really understand the nuances of foreign policy in her decision.
She doesn't want to be in position defending them all. It's in her interest to focus on her economic. That's what she wants to run on. She
believes that people are generally satisfied with the Obama economy despite what Donald Trump says. She wants to run on extending that progress even
though it's incomplete.
The other thing that's going on here is she doesn't want to get caught in this cycle where she's always responding to Trump's latest attack. She
doesn't want to fight the battle on his terms. She wants to fight it on her terms.
[15:15:03]So she's going to have a plan. She's going to stick to the plan. Donald Trump can say whatever he wants and she's going to execute her
strategy. Whether or not it will work we'll only know in November.
GORANI: Right, but we can see nationwide head-to-head polls indicating at least now that Hillary Clinton has a lead and also we've seen that she's
raised a lot more money. She's got a more organized campaign. She's got a staff that's ten times the staff of Donald Trump.
So one has to wonder, was Donald Trump's, you know, success, in the primary process something he's going to have a hard time replicating at least with
this kind of money in the bank and staffing in the general election?
ROGIN: Yes, Donald Trump is going to have a hard time defeating the Clinton machine even if he had a big step and he had all the money in the
world. It was always going to be an uphill battle for Donald Trump.
Now, we see the polls going in the wrong direction, mostly because of things that Donald Trump has said but also because of his reporting of the
problems inside his campaign. We had three days of stories of firing his campaign manager.
Donald Trump is trying to change the subject here. The problem is, as you point out, the facts on the ground are clear. He's way behind
organizationally, financially, that's a real thing, that's a problem. He's not going to solve that just by talking about Hillary Clinton's Benghazi.
GORANI: Josh, if you just stand by, I want to tell our viewers about what's happening on the floor of the U.S. Congress and then I want to ask
you about it, these are rarely seen moments on the floor of the U.S. Congress. This is what happened today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to occupy the floor of the House in today's action. Rise up, Democrats. Rise up, Americans.
GORANI: Before we -- I want to get back to Josh in a moment, but this is a pretty amazing scene in the House of Representatives. You heard first
there from Representative John Lewis, who is leading this sit-in in demanding action on gun control.
Some lawmakers are making speeches and others are chanting using the #novotenobreak. President Obama in fact just tweeted his support of these
efforts. He said, "Thank you, John Lewis, for leading on gun violence where we need it most."
So Josh Rogin, essentially these are some Democratic representative including John Lewis who is a civil rights icon in America representing a
district in Georgia. He's a Democrat saying we are just going to basically sit, this is against all rules of the House of Representatives, until you
take action on gun control, pretty remarkable scenes.
ROGIN: Yes, I think it's unprecedented from at least in my memory of covering Congress for many years. The images are powerful, right? But if
you talk to people, especially on Capitol Hill, but even people around the country, they'll always say the same thing.
The fact that Congress cannot pass any reasonable legislation in the wake of the Orlando attacks is a pox on both of their houses, both parties are
responsible, right. Now it's become clear that nothing is going to happen legislative.
Both parties are doing whatever they can to score political points outside of this failure and this is perhaps the most compelling video and images
that we've seen, but we had a filibuster on the floor by Senator Chris Murphy.
We've had a number of press conferences. Everyone is trying to now capitalize and turn ultimately what is a failure of our legislative branch
to make gun control in legislation into a political victory in November.
So we've left the phase where we're trying to legislate the answer and we've begun the process of trying to make it into political hay and I think
that is viewed by a lot of people as destructive.
GORANI: Few viewers are wondering why this is cell phone video because technically, there was a break on Capitol Hill, so the feed coming from the
House of Representatives was interrupted. So the whole process or a lot of the process was transmitted by a Periscope which is live streaming. That's
why we have that quality video. Thanks very much Josh Rogin. Appreciate it in Washington.
A lot more to come this evening. It's the first time golf will be an Olympic sport in more than 100 years, but gold medal favorite, Rory McIlroy
is not going. His reasons for saying no to Rio are next.
GORANI: We're only a few weeks away from the Rio Olympics and the Zika virus is keeping one of golf's biggest stars away. Rory McIlroy says
competing in Brazil during the outbreak is a risk he is, quote, "unwilling to take."
Health leaders have said the threat of Zika is low for athletes competing in the summer games and officials in Ireland say they're disappointed but
respect McIlroy's decision. It is after all, a historic time for the game. It's the first time that golf will be an Olympic sport since 1904.
McIlroy is not the only athlete refusing to go to Rio because of Zika. Patrick Snell joins me from the CNN center in Atlanta. Rory McIlroy is not
-- he's saying he's not going because of Zika? Are there any other reasons or is it just Zika?
PATRICK SNELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: Well, that's exactly what he's citing, Hala. A little bit of a U-turn I think from Rory because a few weeks ago
he seemed to give the indication that he was still focused on going. It's not a particularly good year for him on the golf course, we should point
out as well.
He recently missed the cut at the U.S. Open in Oakmont. The first time he missed the cut at a major since 2013. He hasn't won a major in over two
years. But as far as this story is concerned, I think he's being very clear, Hala.
To answer you directly he's citing Zika and he's certainly for me the most high profile sportsman in the world to pull out of the Rio Olympics
specifically citing Zika. This is what he had to say in a statement to his legion of fans worldwide making it very clear.
Part of his statement reading, "My health and my family's health comes before anything else. Even though the risk of infection from the Zika
virus is considered low. It is a risk, nonetheless and a risk I am unwilling to take."
So obviously disappointment as well from the world of golf. The International Golf Federation responding in a statement, "the IGF is
disappointed with Rory's decision but recognizes that some players will have to weigh personally a unique set of circumstances as they contemplate
their participation in golf's historic return to the Olympic Games.
It's unfortunate that the Zika has led to Rory's decision to withdraw, knowing how much he was looking forward to taking part." No question about
it, Hala, it's a huge blow to not only Rory McIlroy fans worldwide and the development of the game potentially in Brazil as well, but also for the
sport of golf returning to the Olympics -- Hala.
GORANI: And what about other athletes because he's not the only one to have pulled out because of Zika fears?
SNELL: Correct. He adds to the growing list of golfers as well, I should point out. But certainly, let me reference another very high profile
golfer as well, the 2013 Masters champion, the Australian Adam Scott.
He was actually one of the first to cite that he was pulling out of the Olympic Games, but not citing the zika virus. Specifically Adam Scott, he
implied due to scheduling as well, the same reasons of Vijay Singh as well.
But in terms of other high profiles. You see the list of golfers there, another Australian, Marc Leishman, and Louis Oosthuizen, a pair of South
Africans as well. So golfers certainly making their ways in ways certainly the International Golf Federation would not be too pleased about.
But another very high profile name in addition to Adam Scott who I said, Hala, was the 2013 Masters champion, from the world of basketball, Steph
Curry, the Golden State Warriors star, he has also in the last few weeks, he has announced that he has pulled out, will not be traveling to Rio to
compete with Team USA.
Again, not specifically citing Zika, this was in reference to what he called several factors in play here. Just in the last few days losing out
in the NBA finals to Cleveland. Back to you there -- Hala.
[15:25:08]GORANI: All right, lots of disappointment all around. And there's more disappointment, in St. Patrick, Russia, because some athletes
are going to have to sit out of Rio because of the doping band. Among them a two-time Olympic gold medalist who says she will still push for a spot in
Rio. Our Matthew Chance sat down with her for his exclusive report.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It could be her last competitive event. Not Rio, but the small Russian town
of Chibouk South. Isinbayeva considered the world's greatest female pole vaulter insists she will fight for a place in the Olympics despite the
doping ban on Russia's track and field team.
(on camera): What is your option now? How are you going to compete in Rio? Have you given up?
YELENA ISINBAYEVA, DOUBLE OLYMPIC POLE VAULTING CHAMPION: No, I never give up. You know, I think you saw today (inaudible) give up even if it's
really down. So my way will be the next (inaudible) I will appeal in the court of sport.
CHANCE: In the arbitration?
ISINBAYEVA: In arbitration, court, yes, yes. And if they are satisfied with my appeal, and then I will have a right to compete in Rio under the
Russian flag. So that's what I heard today by the news on TV from (inaudible), from IOC. So it gives me hope.
CHANCE (voice-over): Isinbayeva is a giant of Russian athletics. Two Olympic golds and three world championships to her credit as well as being
the current world record holder. She's also been an outspoken critic of Russia's doping ban.
(on camera): So, do you think it was a disappointing decision for you, personally?
ISINBAYEVA: Yes, yes. It was disappointing decision for me that I had on June 17th, because as I tell before, it was unfair from either the left
side, all innocent athletes were also banned for mistakes of others. And I was also speaking to the reference to it's all about individuals. We are
not team sport. Every athlete has the sport for themselves, for their behavior, for their -- for their -- why should I have the mistakes of
CHANCE: Do you not accept that Russia like the IWAF said and the (inaudible) report said, the doping in the agency has a deep seated problem
with doping and it's not possible to know who is a clean athlete and who isn't?
ISINBAYEVA: That is a big problem. There is duty to find athletes but if you can't find it, consider everyone is doping, but from my side this is a
CHANCE: A mistake, Isinbayeva, says may cost her a dream retirement on the Olympic stage in Rio.
ISINBAYEVA: I wish to compete, but no one allowed to do it for mistakes of others so, what can I say.
CHANCE: Matthew Chance, CNN, Chibouk in Central Russia.
GORANI: Up next, more on the historic vote once in a generation, it should be said two generations lies ahead for Britain. How are markets reacting
to all of this? We'll be right back. We're live at the New York stock exchange.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Welcome back. Our top stories, a final push in the U.K. on the eve of that historic referendum tomorrow.
Both the "remain" and "leave" campaigns are making their cases. Every vote counts and polls are still too close to call. So we are waiting in
anticipation for this big moment tomorrow.
While Britain grapple with the referendum, they are also paying tribute to Jo Cox, the MP who was murdered last week. Vigils took place on what would
have been today her 42nd birthday. Her widower remembered her support for tolerance and diversity and said she lived and died for her beliefs.
Many were expecting a fiery response to Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton delivered. She spoke earlier this hour laying out plans to create jobs and
improve infrastructure. Trump and Clinton have been engaging in an ongoing war of words.
Well, you know what that music means, that symphonic moments that signals that we're about to speak referendum once again. While the U.K.'s future
in the E.U. is up in the air, investors in the market are being rattled by the uncertainty. Boy, do they hate uncertainty on the eve of this historic
Paul La Monica is live at the New York Stock Exchange about 30 minutes before the close. What's going on right now at the NYSE? Are traders and
analysts there telling you that there's nervousness ahead of this referendum, Paul?
PAUL R. LA MONICA, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: There is a little bit. I think it's manifesting itself with inaction. Investors are maybe just
sitting on their hands. I don't know if there's really any sense of unease or anxiety since most people I speak here do believe that the "remain" vote
That the U.K. will not exit the E.U. But that being said, no one wants to make any big bets ahead of that, especially since there are significant
number of companies in the U.S., the S&P 500, that have decent exposure to the U.K., and of course, the rest of the Europe as well.
GORANI: And what about these business leaders? I mean, presumably American business leaders are in favor of remain, right?
LA MONICA: Yes, without question. I think you have, first and foremost, Jamie Dimon, the CEO of JPMorgan Chase, he has been very vocal saying that
there could be a huge problem for not just the banking sector. But many American companies that have operations in London and throughout the United
Kingdom, what might happen if they are forced to deal with a Britain that isn't part of the E.U., it could be very, very messy to say the least.
GORANI: OK. So, I do wonder, I mean, we've heard some predictions about what would happen to the pound if the U.K. exited the E.U. But what about
stocks in the U.S., are there predictions for that model, that potential scenario?
LA MONICA: Yes, most people I speak to are uncertain because I think the big wildcard is the U.S. stock market likely would follow the lead of
Europe. I don't think that in of itself Britain leaving the E.U. is a Lehman-esque type 2008 catastrophe for the U.S. stock market. But it all
depends on what happens to major European companies and European stocks.
GORANI: All right, Paul La Monica, thanks very much at the New York Stock Exchange.
Michael Houston is the chief market analyst for CMC Markets. He's in the studio here with me. Hello, thanks for being here. George Soros said this
would be a disaster, essentially, that if the U.K. exited the E.U., it would be the worse than 1992 when the pound basically fell off a cliff.
Why would he be wrong, he's a lot of experience in the currency market and made a fortune, by the way?
MICHAEL HEWSON, CHIEF MARKET ANALYST, CMC MARKETS: He does. I also think potentially he's talking his book. I mean, he's basically saying that the
decline in the pound would be worse than 1992.
[15:35:07]And 1992 was a black swan event. No one expected it. The pound was overvalued. It was in a bank, fixed to the deutsche mark. The Bank of
England raised interest rates. The Bank of England piled in to support the currency and then pulled out.
GORANI: OK, so what -- you study this every day, if this happens --
HEWSON: This is not a surprise. This vote has been known about since the 20th of February, and David Cameron stood up and said he's going to hold a
referendum, 23rd of June, simple in and out question advisory vote so parliament doesn't necessarily have to follow it. It kicks off a two-year
negotiation program. If we vote to leave on Friday, there's a two-year process that is kick-started when MPs initiate Article 15 --
GORANI: But you don't think there will be a collapse of the pound or anything like that? What about equity markets?
HEWSON: Equity markets, I think there will be significant volatility. I think we will see a little bit of slide back in the pound and I think we
could well see a little bit of volatility and decline in equity markets. I think it will be moderate.
It certainly won't be on the scale that we saw in 2008. In 2008, the banking system was in crisis. I think there's an awful lot of hyperbole
around this campaign from both sides and I don't think it helps anybody. In some ways it can be self-fulfilling.
GORANI: But what about -- I mean, the fact that the U.K. by exiting the E.U. is putting itself in a very precarious situation because it doesn't
just have to renegotiate its trading partnership with the E.U. It has to go back to the drawing board with every single partner that the E.U. has
negotiated a deal with. We're talking dozens, possibly hundreds of entities and countries. Is this not going to legitimately basically freak
HEWSON: I don't see why it should. The U.K. doesn't have a trade agreement with the U.S., doesn't have a trade agreement with Japan. If you
walk into any electrical shop, you'll see televisions, (inaudible) goods from all over world, from places like Korea, China, Japan.
So yes, it's going to introduce an element of uncertainty in for the markets, but is it a Lehman moment? I don't think that it is. I think
what it does do, given how precarious Europe's situation is right now it does make it very, very difficult in terms of the future relationship going
That's why I think it's in everybody's interest to get around the table and have an adult, grown up discussion about how we go from here --
GORANI: You've listened to the campaign, right. You're talking about adult discussions?
HEWSON: In contrast to the campaign which has been hysterical and really hasn't shed any light for us voters about the pros and cons about remaining
GORANI: Last question -- it sounds to me like you -- I mean, what is your position? Are you taking a position in or out? What do you think is
better for Britain economically speaking?
HEWSON: I think there's argument on both sides to be honest.
GORANI: Which are ones?
HEWSON: To be quite honest, I haven't heard convincing ones from "remain." I think "leave" has had the much more positive message. At the moment, if
you put me up against the wall, which way would I jump? I honestly don't know.
GORANI: You're voting, though?
HEWSON: I am voting. I'm voting tomorrow morning.
GORANI: And you still don't know?
HEWSON: I have an inclination of which way I'm going to vote, which I would like to keep to myself.
GORANI: Michael Hewson, the chief market analyst for CMC Markets, thanks very much for joining us. Appreciate your time.
You can catch all of our special coverage as the votes are counted Thursday. In the meantime, check out CNN.com/UKreferendum for much more
information on the crucial choice facing voters in the U.K. This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
Still to come, Donald Trump's businesses are making a pretty penny off his presidential campaign, millions actually and it's all purposely legal,
we'll explain -- next.
GORANI: Hillary Clinton says Donald Trump is attacking her personally because he doesn't have much to say of substance. A short time ago the
presumptive Democratic presidential nominee responded to Trump's blistering attack on her earlier in the day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know Donald hates it when anyone points out how hallow his sales pitch really is. And I guess my
speech yesterday must have gotten under his skin, because right away, he lashed out on Twitter with outlandish lies and conspiracy theories and he
did the same in his speech today.
Now, think about it, he's going after me personally because he has no answers on the substance. In fact -- in fact, he doubled down on being the
king of debt. So, all he can do is try to distract us. That's even why he's attacking my faith.
Sigh. And, of course, attacking a philanthropic foundation that saves and improves lives around the world. It's no surprise he doesn't understand
The Clinton Foundation helps poor people around the world get access to life-saving aids medicine. Donald Trump uses poor people around the world
to produce his line of suits and ties.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, Donald Trump had his own attack against Hillary Clinton saying she was corrupt. That her personal e-mail server should disqualify
her for the job of president and more attacks as well.
Now, Donald Trump frequently points out that he's largely self-funding his presidential campaign because he's very rich. But we're just now learning
that a significant chunk of his campaign funds have gone to businesses that he owns. And he's not breaking any laws by doing that. It is, though,
raising a few eyebrows as Drew Griffin reports now.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He is famously rich, famously boastful, and from the very beginning of this
campaign, he made sure everyone knew Donald Trump would be like no other candidate in the race.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: because I don't need anybody's money, it's nice. I don't need anybody's money. I'm using my own money.
GRIFFIN: Donald Trump may be using his own money, but he's also spending a lot of that money on Donald Trump. In one of the odder twists in an ever
odder campaign, the candidate who owns jets, resorts, hotels and office buildings is apparently making sure that's the very jet, resorts, hotels,
and office buildings his campaign is using.
TRUMP: Nobody is going to taking care of me. I don't want anybody's money.
GRIFFIN: Newly released Federal Election Commission expenditures shows Donald Trump, the candidate, has been spending millions on Donald Trump,
the businessman. It's all perfectly legal.
Trump's campaign has paid Trump's TAG Air, 4.6 million to use the Trump jet. Trump's Mar-A-Lago Resort, that's been paid $423,000. Trump
restaurants $133,000. It goes on and on.
[15:45:07]Tens of thousands to Trump golf courses. Thousands to Trump hotels even $3,900 to son Eric Trump's winery. Altogether, it adds up to
about $6.3 million. Roughly 10 percent of Trump's campaign spending is on businesses run, operated, or owned by the candidate himself.
(on camera): Donald Trump has self-financed most of this campaign by loaning his campaign his own money. Now, will he eventually end up
profiting on his campaign for president? Unless he releases those tax returns way down the road, we may never know.
GORANI: That was Drew Griffin reporting. Hillary Clinton responded to these revelations with the tweet, "What is Trump spending his meager
campaign resources on? Why, himself, of course."
Let's bring in Mark Preston, the executive editor for CNN Politics. So now it's getting really fiery between the two candidates. Both have different
strategies. I mean, Donald Trump was basically attacking crooked Hillary as he calls her, saying she's corrupt. Her foundation is corrupt.
She is actually trying to make the point that she's better suited to address the economic problems of the United States while taking some shots
at Trump as well. How are the two strategies different?
MARK PRESTON, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, CNN POLITICS: One is, we saw Hillary Clinton try to do it two-fold, yesterday, she devoted her entire day
attacking Donald Trump specifically calling into question his business dealings and quite frankly his declarations about how he would fix the
economy and how he would work with world leaders.
Today was the pivot for her to talk more about the positive vision and what she can bring towards helping change things here in the United States.
Donald Trump today used 45 minutes, I suppose, of his day just flat out attacking Clinton on every single that he could possibly do.
Now, he did try to weave, Hala, into that speech, a little bit about how he would be a better commander-in-chief here of the United States in that
speech. It was really an attack speech.
Quite frankly, a speech that is takes place right before he heads over there to Scotland. He's going over there to one of his golf courses.
He'll be there quite frankly when the Brexit vote takes place. It will be interesting to see what his reaction is to that -- Hala.
GORANI: He's coming to our neck of the woods. That's going to be interesting. Now Brent Scocroff (ph), might not be a household name for
viewers around the world, but in the United States, of course, this a man who was the national security adviser under Gerald Ford, under Bush Sr.,
George Walker Bush. And he's come out and endorsed who?
PRESTON: Well, he endorsed Hillary Clinton. Just released a statement will probably catch some people by surprise because what we're seeing here
in the U.S., Hala, is that a lot of Republicans while if they're not supportive of Donald Trump, they're not coming out specifically for Hillary
But in this rather lengthy statement of an endorsement, a couple things that Brent Scocroff (ph) says. One that he says is that as the president
you have to make very tough calls under pressure, and he talks about Hillary Clinton's job in helping broker ceasefire between Israel and Hamas
as well as leading a coalition to bring sanctions against Iran.
And also as well as trying to convince Iran to get rid of its nuclear program. Big issues for our audience, of course, around the globe. That's
why he thinks that Hillary Clinton has the experience to do so. Now it's interesting too, doesn't mention Donald Trump all in in the endorsement.
GORANI: OK. But a high level historically Republican politician or official endorsing Clinton. What about the sit-in on Capitol Hill,
Democrats led by John Lewis, a civil rights icon conducting or organizing a sit-in on the floor of House of Representatives until there's some sort of
action on gun control. Is it likely to produce anything?
PRESTON: Well, it's certainly not likely to produce anything other than headlines and show the divide in the election year in the U.S. as we're
seeing Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump fight over many years on the campaign trail towards the White House.
What we're seeing on Capitol Hill now is a battle over policy, policy about how best to regulate hand guns and automatic weapons, semi-automatic
weapons here in the United States. A big divide between Republicans and Democrats about what to do.
In the middle of it all is the National Rifle Association, a very powerful, very wealthy lobby that is doing its best to prevent any new regulations on
this gun legislation or any bills to move forward.
What we're seeing now is Democrats very frustrated because they don't control Congress. So they're doing all that they can do and that's really
to try gum up the works on the House floor.
GORANI: Some very interesting scenes there on the House floor. Thanks very much, Mark Preston for joining us from Washington. Speaking of
politics, CNN will be covering the U.K. referendum for you from across Britain all around the world on Thursday. Will the U.K. decide to stay in
the E.U. or will voters choose to leave.
[15:50:06]Stay tuned to our coverage. I'll be here at the anchor desk with my colleague, Richard Quest, and the teams fanned out across the United
Kingdom and London with key reports and interviews.
It starts at 10:00 p.m. London time when the polling stations close and goes on all night. I will be drinking quite a lot of coffee here to keep
you informed throughout the night and into the early morning.
Coming up, this -- the opening chords of this iconic Led Zeppelin song stolen from another band all along? The trial to decide that question is
coming to a verdict in Los Angeles and we'll be live in L.A.
GORANI: The lawsuit accusing the iconic rock band, Led Zeppelin, of stealing the iconic notes of their hit song "Stairway To Heaven" is now in
the hands of the jury. A verdict could come basically at any time.
Throughout the trial, Led Zeppelin members testified that they never heard the song called "Tourist," which a late musician's estate says they
basically stole. Listen to both and decide for yourself. We start with "Stairway To Heaven" followed by "Tourist."
GORANI: It's tough because you can kind of hear it, but also, you kind of don't hear it. Millions of dollars in royalties, though, are potentially
at stake here. Stephanie Elam is outside the courthouse in Los Angeles and has the very latest on the trial. All right, so we're still waiting.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we started waiting today, Hala. The jury got their instructions a few hours ago now. Maybe an hour or so
ago, and now, it's about figuring out what the jury will say. We will have to wait and see.
But what you have here is what's interesting. Five days of testimony, you did have in court every day, Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, talking about this
song. Really, a lot of it going to page who wrote the song.
Think about it, the song is written some 44 years before the suit was even brought. So they're remembering some -- basically digging out old memories
and trying to figure out if they did ever come across Spirit.
If they even came across Randy California or Randy Wolfe, the man from Spirit that wrote this song. Keep in mind, this was also an instrumental
song on their first album that Spirit put out. They seemed to gain fame really with their second album.
So, all of this coming out on this session going on here. But it does mean a lot to the music industry because of the fact that there are millions of
dollars at stake if it is found that the jury does find against Led Zeppelin here and said that they did steal this music from them.
Of course, at this point, they're saying there's no way to prove that we actually did hear this song anytime. And what's also interesting is
hearing from Robert Plant says that cross pollination is really a key part of music and development.
[15:55:10]And that is a part of the industry as a whole. So for them to say this specific sound and that intro rift, that is the beginning of
"Stairway To Heaven" of that seven and a half-minute song, that intro, that you can find in other songs as well.
GORANI: At this point, what do they have to prove here? Because, clearly, it's not the exact same set of notes. You can argue it's inspired by, but
you can't say it's a copy of. What do the people --
GORANI: -- right. What do those bringing this case to trial have to prove here, exactly?
ELAM: Well, and that's the thing. They are saying the structure of the song without getting too technical, because I am not a musician and I don't
want to mess it up for everybody, but they're saying the certain structure that is used is different than the way other people were doing at the time.
Now the Spirit song was written in 1968, they're saying. And they're also saying that the song that was written by -- "Stairway To Heaven" by those
gentlemen, was 1970. Pretty much the exact same time. So, that's really hard to prove at this point -- Hala.
GORANI: All right, Stephanie Elam, thanks very much. We'll keep our eye on that. It will be an interesting verdict either way.
U.K. voters facing that major decision tomorrow whether to remain or leave the E.U. We will have coverage. My colleague Richard Quest and I will be
at the anchor desk starting at 10:00 p.m. London time.
We'll be at the Houses of Parliament, Downing Street, in Brussels, Berlin, Paris, all over the place to cover this important story. Our live coverage
of the referendum starts at 10:00. I'm Hala Gorani. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.