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Donald Trump comments on Brexit decision; Stocks show sharp drop at open; Brexit has many potential effects globally; How will UK's exit influence security relations? CNN's show "Declassified" airs Sunday. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired June 24, 2016 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[10:30:50]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Strategist Maria Cardona, Hillary Clinton supporter. Arkansas Attorney General, Leslie Rutledge, and Historian/Professor, Princeton University, Julian Zelizer. Mary Katherine, let me start with you. One of the defining characteristics in this vote in the UK seems to be anti-elitism. This is seen as an anti-elite moment. It is also seen as a statement on immigration, a statement on borders.

All of these things are also part of the U.S. election right now. Do you see it translating from over there to over here?

MARY KATHARINE HAM, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look I think there are certainly populus parallels and it's classic Trump to be on his golf course pitching his golf course while he's talking about Brexit. But what he did do here is, he thinks you have recognized that this is something that resonates with his constituents.

And he acted pretty quickly on it. He was the first big U.S. leader I think this morning, that people heard from on this. Which I will give them some credit, I don't know if it's strategy but they seem to have recognized that this is something that would play well.

I do think there are differences. The U.S. has given up less sovereignty than Britain has. Britain joined the EU which is a collection of bureaucrats in Brussels who are not that democratically accountable. And so now they are reacting to that.

And I also think U.S. populism right now is focused on a person and British populism is focused on the idea of a Brit (ph). So I think that's a difference as well.

BERMAN: You, Maria, if there is an anti-elite moment out there right now, an anti-elite moment that isn't just in the United Kingdom, but here as well, doesn't that spell problems for Hillary Clinton who is seen as being part of this ruling class for more than 20 years?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I don't think so, and here's why, John. I think that clearly Donald Trump thinks that what happened in Great Britain is going to help him make the parallel to his own campaign. Let's be very clear, his campaign surged and he was able to win the nomination of the GOP on a very specific, anti- immigrant, nativist message.

That might have worked for him to get the nomination. But when you are facing a general election electorate that looks very different from the Republican Primary electorate, that kind of message is only going to help Hillary Clinton. Because she is going to be able to underscore his divisive, dangerous, bigoted, racist remarks talking about banning Muslims, building a wall, supporting 11 million undocumented immigrants, in an electorate where the multicultural voting block is only growing.

And when you have a Republican candidate who cannot get to the White House with at least 42 percent of the Latino vote, for example, he has no pathway right now with the kind of message that he is hocking.

BERMAN: Attorney General Rutledge, and Ron Brownstein, one of the great U.S. political analysts and demographers, points out that about 87 percent of the vote in the United Kingdom was white. That is way higher than we're going to see here in the U.S. election. So there is a difference there, Attorney General, in terms of the type of people who will be making these decisions.

LESLIE RUTLEDGE, ATTORNEY GENERAL, ARKANSAS: What we saw today from Donald Trump is that Donald Trump is a leader. And he came out today representing not only his company, but representing America. And people in America care about national security, care about jobs and the economy. What they don't want are four more years of Barack Obama's failed economic policies. And that's what we would have with Hillary Clinton.

Today Donald Trump showed that America is on-target to protect our borders, protect Americans. Because Americans care about national security.

BERMAN: What did he do today, exactly, that makes you say that. I watched the event at the golf course in Scotland. And he spoke about the reopening of it, and he spoke about how proud that he was of his son renovating the hotel. And then he took questions on the British vote, and he said he supported it. But he wasn't really talking that much about what he did for America. I'm just confused about what you're saying he did today.

RUTLEDGE: Well today when he was answering questions, yes, he answered questions about the vote. And he said that this was up to the people of the United Kingdom, just as it's up to the people of America, to make these decisions. And that's why they are falling in line behind Donald Trump. They believe in his leadership.

Because again, John, people care about our national security. They've seen what Hillary Clinton will do as Secretary of State. That gives people cause to fear Hillary Clinton. Because they know it will be four more years of Barack Obama.

RUTLEDGE: Professor Zelizer, speaking about the current President, not the people who want to be President, I was just struck today by sometimes how hard the job is. You know, putting it nicely, stuff happens, when you're President, that you don't expect. President Obama did not expect this. To be honest no one did. I mean

the polls showed that the UK was going to vote for remain. He's losing his friend, David Cameron, who will be resigning this Fall. The job is tough, Professor.

JULIAN ZELIZER, HISTORIAN, PROFESSOR, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: Yes. I mean we think of Presidents of having almost unlimited power when they're campaigning and they're making a lot of promises. But what we see in office is often the situation is out of their control. And in the last two days, first he suffers as a result of the Supreme Court indecision on immigration, that knocked out a pillar of his policy.

And today with events in Europe with Brexit, this is a situation he doesn't have total control of. But it will effect his policy legacy which is quite important.

BERMAN: Historically speaking, how is what happens over there -- and by over there I mean anywhere not the United States, but overseas -- how does it affect U.S. voting?

[10:35:35]

ZELIZER: Well it could be very important. Look at 2008, part of the reason President Obama is elected is because of the turmoil in Iraq and the way that weighed down, not just George W. Bush but the entire Party. So this could play into the election.

Even though they are very different situations. But the sense that the White House is not doing the right thing, not able to put the coalitions together that are desired, could have an impact on Hillary Clinton, who is part of the foreign policy team.

BERMAN: Mary Katharine, I'm wondering if I can get your reaction to what the Attorney General, Leslie Rutledge said before about how Donald Trump responded to the questions today. Because it was an interesting event. I mean he went there and he spoke about the refurbished greens, he spoke about the sprinkler system, he spoke about the hotel.

But when he was faced with questions, Mary Katharine, he answered them and he answered them honestly. Look, he was speaking when he -- he had been opposed, well he was actually in favor of the Brexit. He had said that yeah, Britain should leave. But people shouldn't listen to me, they should vote how they want. Then he tied it to the United States. So on the one hand he was right about that.

But then he also answered some questions in some weird ways. He was asked about what he's talking about with his foreign policy advice, he said, yeah, there's not that much to talk about, today.

HAM: Yeah, no, you're always going to get that dichotomy with Trump. But look, I think the thread that brings these two things together is the elites in both countries made a lot of promises, big promises with a lot of overtones of "we know better than you about what we should do." And the American people and the British people fancy themselves quite good at self-government, and exceptional peoples with exceptional countries.

And so when they are told those things and the promises don't come through, they react to that. And so I think that's the part where the Hillary Clinton team and Democrats need to be careful. Because as you saw, polling did not predict this, and the elites again misread the people who were voting. And that can sneak up on you real quick.

BERMAN: Real quick. And there is, Maria, working class discontent here. It is something that we saw in the Democratic Primary. Bernie Sanders got a lot of his support there. This is something that is happening in the United States.

CARDONA: There's no question about that, John. And that is something that Hillary Clinton can speak a lot better to than Donald Trump. And in fact, what he proved this morning is just how clueless and how tone deaf he is to what normal, working class, middle class families are going through right now.

He's sitting there talking ...

HAM: What, they don't own their own golf courses?

CARDONA: Right, imagine that? He's sitting there talking about par numbers, thread counts on the sheets, talking about the golf courses and how grandiose they are. Where middle class families are seeing their 401Ks go down. He's bragging about how the going down of the pound is going to help his businesses. And he talked about extolling the virtues of the Brexit, in Scotland, who as you know, voted to remain.

So this underscores one thing; Donald Trump is about Donald Trump. He is out to enrich himself, and in fact sometimes at the expense and on the backs of Americans. And as we see more about his businesses, that is what is going to be uncovered.

BERMAN: Well that is one of the accusations flying back and forth between the campaigns, right now. Of course Donald Trump says Hillary Clinton says, "I'm with her," Donald Trump says, "I'm with you." They both say that they are out for themselves, they have to prove that they are out there for the American people.

Mary Katharine Ham, Maria Cardona, Leslie Rutledge, Professor Zelizer, thanks so much for being with us, appreciate it.

ZELIZER: Thank you.

CARDONA: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: Still to come, interesting morning on Wall Street, the market down 400 points this morning. We are watching that very, very closely. We'll give you an update right after the break.

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[10:43:30] BERMAN: All right heads still spinning in Europe this morning as the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union. This has had a major impact on markets around the world. The DOW dropped sharply at the opening bell, down more than 500 points early, but it has bounced back some, now down about 390 as some see a buying opportunity.

One trader said to us he was taking an advantage of the moves comparing it to sales day at Macy's. We're joined now by Alison Kosik at the New York Stock Exchange. Also joined by the President of the Eurasia Group, Ian Bremmer. He is on the phone with us right now. Alison first, let's check in with the markets. Not a good morning, but not as bad as it was.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, definitely not as bad as it was. I mean, if you look at how the numbers looked in the pre- market, when the global markets were selling off, you saw the pre- market trading on the DOW could have dropped as much as 700 points. So that 500 point drop at the open not even as bad as that.

We didn't see the 700 point drop materialize. And even better, we're seeing the DOW up its lows of the session. What's getting hit hard? We're seeing bank stocks get hammered. Shares like Citigroup, Bank of America down anywhere from five to seven percent. J.P. Morgan Chase shares are down four percent and that's an interesting one to watch. Because Jamie Dimon spoke out very publicly against a Brexit. Because his concern was that there would be a lot of jobs lost.

J.P. Morgan has its headquarters -- its overseas headquarters, or its European headquarters -- in the UK. And Jamie Dimon warned that he would have to lay off up to 4,000 people if there were a Brexit. Now I'm not certain that that's necessarily going to happen. It is something that he was warning. But you are seeing bank stocks get hit hard. Because London is considered a big financial center. And there's a lot of questions how banks will be able to conduct their business. John?

BERMAN: All right Alison stand by. We have Ian Bremmer on the phone with us right now. Ian you said Brexit is the most significant political risk the world has experienced since the Cuban missile crisis. Now on the one hand you are known for assessing risk. You are famous for such a thing. So I can see people saying, "wow, if Ian Bremmer's saying this it might be serious." But on the other hand, people might say, "wow, that sounds awfully hyperbolic."

[10:45:40]

IAN BREMMER, PRESIDENT, EURASIA GROUP (via telephone): Well I said since the Cuban missile crisis. I mean obviously we're not talking about a potential nuclear war here. But since then we haven't had this kind of shock and it's not just because the Brits have voted out. It's because of the knock-on effect. The impact of a transatlantic alliance is really changing the world order. It's making it much weaker. It's also changing the nature of the European Union. It's not just a hit to Britain.

The ability of the Europeans to continue a level of integration of financial infrastructure, on -- in digital and I.T. infrastructure is going away. The support for populism across the entire continent, the eventual disintegration of the United Kingdom -- which over the medium term is much more likely now. It's precisely the knock-on effects on the world's largest common market -- which is of course, the European Union states.

You put that all together, it's a much more -- what would you look at, the 2008 financial crisis? You look at 9/11 which was a hit to the United States but ultimately the U.S. was in a very strong position at that point and was able to maintain that. Had a lot of allies around it.

The Greek crisis -- the other things we've hit have been much more sort of, basically steady state in terms of the U.S.-led global order. This is something that's moving us much more into a period of geopolitical, creative destruction. And so if you take all of that in account, the political risk, globally, over the medium term, is much more significant.

BERMAN: We have about just a minute left here, Ian. You know one of the interesting things you bring up is this is not over today. I mean this has an impact over the next two years as the UK extradites itself from the European Union.

This as Scotland decides whether it wants to stay part of the United Kingdom. This as the rest of the European nations decide if they want to be part of the European Union. How does the U.S. navigate this over the next few years?

BREMMER (via telephone): Well the U.S. doesn't really navigate it. It's like asking "how does the U.S. navigate the war in Syria?" And the answer is whether the U.S. put troops in, or the U.S. sent arms, or the U.S. was providing trading, or the U.S. stayed on the sidelines, ultimately Syria was going to unwind and become a disaster and lead to a refugee crisis into Europe.

I think what's happening in the -- Obama went to the UK, he made the strongest possible case to why the Brits should stay in. They did not care, it did not move the polls one iota. And so, the United States would like a transatlantic trade and investment partnership to build investment and trade ties with the Europeans. That's just nowhere near the agenda right now.

We're going to be bystanders while the Scots talk about their future in the UK. The Northern Irish talk about their future outside of Europe and away from their common border with Ireland, the UK's only land border. And while we see in France, in the Netherlands, and across Europe, how we see populus parties become much more significant.

And Europe is going to be completely consumed with not only restructuring their deal with the UK outside of the EU, but also a number of countries across the EU, they're going to look for better deals for themselves even before we talk about leaving Europe. This is the most successful supranational experiment that has occurred in post-war era. And now it is failing. It is a tipping point. BERMAN: Ian Bremmer ...

BREMMER: And let's make no doubt that unwind is going to take place over many, many years. And it's going to be absolutely the most significant issue that all of the Europeans will deal with. The Americans will largely be bystanders.

BERMAN: Ian Bremmer thanks so much for being with us. Alison Kosik as well. Still to come, will the exit from the EU of the United Kingdom -- how will it affect national security? We'll speak to a former House Intelligence Chairman, next.

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[10:53:25]

BERMAN: All right, Britain's vote to leave the European Union, hitting the market this morning. Down about 390 points. That could be worse. There are questions about what impact it will have on the security relationships that Britain has, not just with Europe but with the United States. Joining me to discuss, former House Intelligence Chairman, and Host of CNN's new show, "DECLASSIFIED," Mike Rogers.

Mister Chairman thank you so much for being with us. People are wondering, how does this change the UK's role in Europe? And what does that mean for the U.S. relationship?

MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: Well here's might be a bright spot in this. I don't think it will change much at all. So there's two relationships here that are important. One is something called the five eyes. These are the countries that are really attached at the hip when it comes to intelligence. Great Britain, United States, Australia, Canada, New Zealand.

And so those countries have already had this strong, imbedded relationship on intelligence for years. And that -- and by the way, the rest of the European Union has benefitted from that, mainly through Great Britain sharing in those intelligence relationships.

So now the second part of that relationship is the EU countries have already have all of these mechanisms in place that will allow sharing of watchlists, of flight lists. And they have non-EU countries as parties to these agreement. Switzerland, and Norway.

So really that's a very small change, I think. Because it's so important it doesn't have the administrative cost to it, I think you are going to find a pretty seamless transition when it comes to intelligence sharing. And that may be the bright spot of what's all the turmoil that may happen because of Brexit.

BERMAN: Shifting gears, your show this weekend, "DECLASSIFIED," it takes a closer look at the capture of Saddam Hussein. Let's watch a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Then the field phone rang and it was the Commander of Special Operations Unit. He goes, "well, the guy we're looking for we picked up in Baghdad." I go, "really?" He says, "yeah." He said, "you know what we're doing today. Going after Saddam."

I knew we had to move that night because I think once that guy was captured, the word would eventually get back."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: I remember that moment so well. "We got him," Paul Bremmer said. Mike Rogers, quite a moment. 30 seconds or less, now.

ROGERS: Well I think if you love great spy novels and intrigue, you're going to get it but you're going to get it through the voices of the people who actually lived it in a case like Saddam. All of the turns, twists, concerns, panics, danger that went into finding Saddam Hussein in that hole. And all the small little clues that early turned on a chef and Saddam's favorite fish.

And you're going to have to watch the episode to find out why that's important. But that's what finally undid him and we were able to capture him. So you're going to get to see all of it on Sunday night at 10:00.

BERMAN: So many twists and turns. Look forward to seeing it. Mike Rogers thanks so much for being with us. The search for Saddam Hussein is on "DECLASSIFIED," Sunday night, 10:00, right here on CNN.

All right, now it has been a very busy morning. Keeping a close eye on the stock markets all morning. Not to mention the political implications around the world. I'm John Berman, our Flagship show, "AT THIS HOUR" begins right after a break.

[10:56:40]

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