Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Donald Trump On "Brexit": America Is Next; At Least 26 Dead In West Virginia Flooding; Millions Of Undocumented Immigrants In U.S. Fear Deportation After High Court Ruling; Interview With Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton; Three Trials, Three Setbacks For Prosecutors In Freddie Gray Death Case. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired June 25, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: -- reactions around the world. Take a look. "Take a bow, the birth of a new Britain." American papers citing the upheaval and shock waves sending through financial markets, as well. The Brexit bombshell landed in perfect time, some argue, for Donald Trump.

He's in Scotland today, promoting his golf course once again and giving himself a prime backdrop to explain why Brexit bodes well for him, tweeting this. "So funny, Crooked Hillary called Brexit so incorrectly, and now, she says that she is the one to deal with the U.K., all talk no action."

Joining me right now from Aberdeen, Scotland, CNN senior White House correspondent, Jim Acosta, who is traveling with Trump. So for how long does he try to use this to his advantage?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it seems to be working for him so far, Fredricka. So I would expect Donald Trump to continue talking about the Brexit. The results here, how he feels like there are parallels between what occurred over here in the United Kingdom and what's happening back home in the United States.

He hopes the same kind of grass swell of independence-minded support will lead him to victory coming up in November. But I will have to tell you, Fredricka. I was just on the most unusual press conference earlier today, here in Scotland.

Donald Trump was visiting his course here in Aberdeen and he took reporters on what was a moving press conference. We moved from golf course hole to golf course hole, carted by John Deere gator tractors along the way, and at each of these individual stops, he answered questions from all of us.

He talked about the Brexit results, once again. Talked about what occurred in the stock market yesterday, where the Dow and other financial markets plunged around the world. Trump said that he thought that that was something that would occur naturally and perhaps these markets would come back.

I also asked him about some of the comments he made about British Prime Minister David Cameron. And this is what Donald Trump had to say about the way Prime Minister Cameron resigned yesterday in London. Here's what Donald Trump had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: I think I overheard you say that David Cameron resigned somewhat in disgrace. What do you mean by that?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think he resigned under -- look, it was a sad way to have to resign. It shouldn't have taken place. The whole thing shouldn't have taken place and I guess he was misled. Maybe, I don't know what happened, but for him to have resigned that way was not the way for that he wanted to resign.

ACOSTA: Do you feel as though you beat him? You defeated him, in a sense?

TRUMP: Look, I felt that what happened was going to happen. You know, a lot of people have said that. But I felt what happened was going to happen. It was sad for David Cameron. It was very pathetic for President Obama and it was certainly pathetic for Hillary Clinton, they called it wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Now a couple of other news nuggets from this rolling press conference today, Fredricka. I asked him yesterday at that press conference at the Turnberry golf course, what about these results, you know, in the stock market.

And he said, well, if the pound goes down, that will help business for his golf course because more people will be able to travel to his golf course and spend more money.

He kind of clarified that during this rolling press conference, Fredricka, where he said, well, I'll make money if the pound goes up or if it goes down.

I also asked him about, you know, what about all these Republicans back in the U.S. who wish you would just be campaigning for president instead of visiting these golf courses.

And he told me sort of during a quick one on one out here that his sons work very hard on these golf courses, that he wanted to come out here and see how they did.

He gives one of his sons an A-plus on the work that was done on these golf courses, and he's heading back tonight to get back to the campaign -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, Jim Acosta giving us lots more to talk about with my upcoming panel right now, Ford O'Connell is a Republican strategist and former adviser to John McCain. He's joining me right now. Kayleigh McEnany is a Trump supporter, and CNN political commentator, Ryan Lizza is also a Washington correspondent for "The New Yorker."

So Kayleigh, let me begin with you. Because Jim brings up a lot of things there that Donald Trump is being asked to respond to. Is he celebrating that the pound is at its lowest point now in 30 years, and that the markets have rebounded as a result of Brexit, yet he is in Scotland, you know, boasting of these kind of drops.

You know, it will mean that he will have greater business. I mean what kind of message is he sending, potentially, if he were in the White House, how he would relate to the next British prime minister, if he's being questioned about celebrating the resignation of David Cameron?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, I don't think he's really celebrating it. He thinks that the British people have rejected David Cameron's philosophy. And in fact, they have. They've rejected the political elite. And I think that he's absolutely right to point that out.

As for the British pound, you know, there is an argument that the dollar, you know, for instance, "Time" wrote a piece that the dollar being weaker at times can advantage exports. So, you know, there is an argument for the right place that occurrence. I really think that's a side story, though.

[12:05:01]The big story is that the British people rejected the political elite. They rejected the governing elite, like we will do in November, when voters reject Hillary Clinton, who has been part of the governing elite for three decades, voting against middle class tax cuts twice in her career as senator.

She's the elite and Britain rejected the elite and the United States is about to.

WHITFIELD: Ford, is the result of Brexit kind of a prelude to what we could see unfold in the United States?

FORD O'CONNELL, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I absolutely think that it advantages Donald Trump, OK, because, look at Hillary Clinton's response. Her banal response essentially was, I don't know what to say for the next ten hours. I don't know how to move forward.

And understand, also, it's a lot easier for Americans to take a chance on Trump when a country like Britain, that's known for its practicality, goes against the grain.

Right now, Trump's in the catbird state. And forget his response in Scotland. He's going to get credit for being in the right place at the right time on the right issue.

WHITFIELD: OK, so Ryan, let me let you respond to that because is there deafening silence from Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, either he takes advantage of the moment, he's in front of the microphones there in Scotland. He's there, you know, in the U.K. or whether he tweets about it. Does that undermine the comments, efforts, or position of a Hillary Clinton?

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I don't think there's a silence. They disagreed on Brexit, right? Trump really didn't talk about it up until this week. Thought it was a good thing. He congratulated the voters for doing it.

Clinton thought it was a bad thing, thought it would hurt the U.K. economy and potentially the U.S. economy. I don't think Brexit, and I doubt anyone on this panel disagrees with this. I don't think Brexit is going to be a major issue in the American campaign.

And I'm a little skeptical about the parallels with what just happened in the U.K. and what's happening in the United States. Remember, in the U.K., the immigration policy of the United Kingdom was tied to the E.U. They have had massive spike in immigration over the last 20 years.

And there's no doubt that this vote was a referendum on that policy. They had to get out of the E.U. if they wanted to do something about the soaring immigration levels that a lot of voters were uncomfortable with.

In the United States, we don't have the same situation. We control our own immigration policy. Illegal immigration in the United States has been stable or declining in the last few years. And there's no equivalent of the E.U. in the United States and there never would be.

We would never join a multi-national institution like that. So as important as immigration has been in the Republican primaries and to Donald Trump, it's not the simmering issue in a general election, at least so far, that it was in the Republican primaries --

O'CONNELL: I've got to push back, Fred, a little bit. I've got to push back on Ryan on this. That is, look, if Hillary Clinton was thinking that this was a great thing for her at 12:30 a.m. Eastern Time, when we know the results, she would have stepped out in front of her house, in front of the microphone and delivered a statement.

And if Brexit had gone the other way, Hillary Clinton would be saying, this is a rebuke of Donald Trump. This is nonsense. When I listen to politicians, I listen to the words they use. And she had a very bland statement that talked about steady hand and experience.

What it tells me is she doesn't know how to react on this. And trust me Barack Obama's answer was pretty subdued as well. This is something that's a feather in the cap for Donald Trump.

Obviously if events unfold between now and November, it could hurt him. But right now, he's going to find a way to leverage this, to get voters to be comfortable for because what he's talking about, is much the same that went on in the U.K., that's trade, globalization, and the rebuke of elitist politics.

WHITFIELD: So President Obama had his reaction immediately following and then again last night in Seattle, he had this to say about this issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We don't have time for charlatans and we don't have time for hatred, and we don't have time for bigotry. And we don't have time for flimflam. And we don't have the luxury of just popping off and saying whatever comes to the top of our heads.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So, this is in relation to what some are interpreting, you know, a vote like this, or even the speak of Donald Trump as being anti-immigration, you know, nationalism, you know, keep everyone who's out, who's not like me. But not really me. So, Ryan, you know, how does this, in any way, influence Trump's dialogue, Hillary Clinton's approach?

LIZZA: I mean, look, I think has Kayleigh pointed out, there's no doubt that this was reaction against elites, and that is very similar to what Trump is trying to stir up in the United States, and there's no doubt that there's an anti-establishment, anti-elitist sentiment out there.

But I don't think that the American general election is going to be about Brexit at all. In fact, I think a week from now, we won't even be talking about Brexit in the U.S. I think most Americans, if you ask them what Brexit is, they look at you little puzzled.

Yes, there's some super official parallels with what's going on in Europe, with some of the anti-immigration sentiments, but it's very, very different.

[12:10:06]We don't have the equivalent of an E.U. and so far, if you look at all the general election polls, immigration is not even at the top of the list of what people care about. It's the traditionalist issues of the economy and national security. So I don't see a direct parallel --

MCENANY: So that's all --

O'CONNELL: That's exactly right.

MCENANY: That's all tied into it. And Donald Trump, I think, will use this moving forward, because here's the thing. He's going to say Hillary Clinton wants to take us to the place that Brexit just rejected. She wants to take us to a place where 400 ISIS fighters get into the borders because of unbridled immigration.

She wants to take us to a place where we're spending enormous amounts of money on burdensome regulations and it's hurting business. This is Obama's vision that was just rejected. This is Hillary Clinton's vision. Brexit is important and Donald Trump will highlight that.

WHITFIELD: Ford.

O'CONNELL: I absolutely agree with Kayleigh. It's not whether or not Brexit specifically, it's the uncanny similarities. And when you say, Ryan, national security is the number two issue, immigration ties directly into that. Trade and globalization tied directly into the economy. So our top two issues when Democrats come out here and say, gee, it's not the same, it's a different demographics, the issues are exactly the same, they are just in a very different format.

WHITFIELD: And then Ryan, when you see signs, I mean, you know, had a taxi with the sign that says, you know, taking our country back, and then Donald Trump even saying, hey, that's kind of similar language than I've been using, you know, so to speak, making a country greater and taking it back. I mean, how is that not about anti-immigration to some degree?

LIZZA: The similarity is there's a bit of a nationalist impulse that stirring in the United States, especially in the Republican Party, and no doubt, in several countries in Europe that are now going to -- that they have similar votes to the U.K.

My big point is just, the referendum on Brexit was almost exclusively about immigration and soaring levels of immigration in the U.K., that could only be fixed by removing the U.K. from the E.U., because the E.U. essentially controlled the U.K.'s immigration policy.

We don't have anything even close to that in this country, right? And neither Donald Trump nor Hillary Clinton is proposing that we join some super national government that would control our immigration policy. That's the big point, but I agree --

MCENANY: But Clinton does want to increase refugees by 500 percent. She wants to basically implement the same exact policies. This was about more than immigration, it was about the economy. It was about not having someone in Brussels tell you that a child under the age of 8 can't blow up a balloon or you can't own a hair dryer over a specific voltage.

WHITFIELD: But I think what Ryan's saying is that not the issue that we share in America.

MCENANY: But I do think we share that in America.

LIZZA: If you were advising Donald Trump, would you really advise Donald Trump to talk about Brexit for the rest of the campaign?

O'CONNELL: Absolutely not. I would say, let's talk about the populistic angst and basically rejection of the elites. And some would actually argue when it comes to immigration, not enforcing the law in this country, Barack Obama does, in fact, act like Brussels. OK, he's going above the law.

We don't have a Supreme Court justice, a ninth justice, because we know if we appoint one, it's going to be immigration all the time. And this is a way to play political games in much the same sense --

WHITFIELD: Well, there is no ninth Supreme Court justice because no voting is taking place. You know?

O'CONNELL: But there's a reason why no voting is taking place because we know what's going to happen. Is Barack Obama's ninth -- when he appoints it, it's going to be someone who pro-immigration all the time.

WHITFIELD: OK, we're going to leave it right there. That's a whole another segment and that one's coming up, too, I'm sure, because we have a few months to go before that argument is resolved. We'll leave it right there for now. Ford O'Connell, Ryan Lizza, Kayleigh McEnany, thank you so much. We'll have you back. Appreciate it.

All right, still ahead, record-setting flooding and devastation in West Virginia. More than two dozen now dead. Trees and power lines are also buckling and streets, as you see in those images right there are swamped. Rescuers are still scrambling to help those stranded by the raging waters, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:17:09]

WHITFIELD: All right, breaking news now, out of West Virginia, where the rain has finally stopped. However, the water continues to rise in some areas, and rescues are still underway in certain pockets, at this hour, after record flooding left at least 26 people dead.

We've just learned West Virginia's governor has requested a federal disaster declaration for the state and hundreds of people remain stranded. Some forced to get on their rooftops to escape the raging waters. The floods, in some cases, so violent and rising so rapidly, one resident says the streets at one point look more like an ocean.

Paul Moya is joining me right now on the phone. We understand that he actually rescued a neighbor from the floodwaters in West Virginia. Paul, I'm glad you are able to be with us. Describe for us what happened.

PAUL MOYA, RESCUED FLOODING VICTIM (via telephone): Thank you very much. Of course, the flash floods came through the area and I was rescuing my daughter's dog and I was making my way through a clearing and I heard a young lady screaming and she asked if she should leave.

I said, yes, and by the time she got out of our house, she couldn't make it through the waters and I tried to talk her into it, but she was panicking. So needless to say, I just couldn't leave her behind. So I stayed with her.

We took shelter on the second story of her home and then eventually had to make our way to the roof. She was just panicking so bad that we were going to lose access to the roof. So we were up on the roof for a few hours, I had posted a video to Facebook, with some of the scenes that were going on around us and --

WHITFIELD: So Paul, wait a minute. Take me back for a second. So, Paul, so you saw her in this clearing area, you heard her. She couldn't leave her home. How did you get to the roof?

MOYA: I had took a window out of the framing of the house and we crawled out it and then I lifted her on my shoulders up to the roof and then I just went ahead and scaled as best I could and got up there.

WHITFIELD: Oh, my goodness, you're making it sound so matter of fact and effortless, but this was difficult. You've got water, you know, rushing around you at incredible speeds. How were you able to keep her balanced at the same time, hold on for your own dear life, in order to push her or help her, support her to get to the rooftop?

MOYA: Other than the adrenaline slowing, the military has taught me very well to survive.

WHITFIELD: And once you -- thank goodness for those skills. Once you got to the rooftop, how long did you have to wait? How did you communicate to anyone or how did anyone even find out that you all were in this position to eventually rescue you?

MOYA: Well, Facebook, I had posted a video to Facebook, gave them our location prior to my cell phone dying.

[12:20:07]She had limited cell phone access and she was in touch with 911 and of course, the situation was really, really dangerous and I really could not have expected anyone to come to our rescue at that time, so we were approximately held up for almost ten hours.

WHITFIELD: Oh, my gosh! Ten hours!

MOYA: Yes, ma'am.

WHITFIELD: Was this all during daylight hours or were these also in the --

MOYA: No, ma'am.

WHITFIELD: Overnight?

MOYA: No, ma'am, we got caught up approximately 2:30 in the afternoon and I believe state police trooper came through the door at approximately 1:45 a.m.

WHITFIELD: Oh, my gosh, what was your feeling when you heard them? I don't know if you could really see them, because it was dark, right? But when you could tell it was them rescuing you, what were you thinking at that moment? What kind of relief did you feel?

MOYA: It was great relief. I'm a diabetic and I was going down fast, but the adrenaline was kicking in. I just maintained my composure, kept her calm, and thank God we made it through this.

WHITFIELD: Oh, my gosh, Paul Moya, what an incredible experience. You really placed us there by your storytelling. I'm glad that you are OK. How are you feeling? Presuming you're OK because of the way you're telling the story, but are you OK, completely? Physically?

MOYA: Well, believe it or not, I am still shaking. I do have some minor injuries with debris hitting me, as I was trying to get back to her home, and, you know, make sure she was secure as well. And, you know, it's -- I'm just still flowing on adrenaline. WHITFIELD: And what about your neighbor? How is she doing?

MOYA: She is doing well. The last time I checked with her, I'm on my way back to the scene now. It's been a day or so since I've seen there. I was in the ER seeking treatment and they stabilized me and I'm ready to go back and do some clean up and help where I am.

WHITFIELD: Incredible. Paul Moya, thank you so much. So glad you're well and your neighbor also recovering and thank goodness, as you said, for your military training and your overall, you know, wherewithal to know what to do, how to do it, and I'm glad the rescuers were able to get to you as well. Thank you so much. All the best.

All right, coming up, what the Brexit vote in the U.K. could potentially mean for the region there in Europe. And it could potentially mean for your 401k investments next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:26:32]

WHITFIELD: News that the U.K. voted to leave the European Union caused markets around the world to plummet. In the U.S., the Dow plunged over 600 points Friday and you're probably not alone if you are nervously checking your 401(k).

CNN Money Europe editor, Nina Dos Santos joining me now from London. Nina, we know the initial reaction was pretty rough, but will things likely improve?

NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN MONEY EUROPE EDITOR: Yes, we've got to bear in mind at this point, Fredricka, that the stock market some people will be cheap after the Dow Jones Industrial Average had its worst day in around ten months. The S&P 500 having its worst day since September 2015.

But we should also point out that it's likely that there's going to be quite a bit of uncertainty further down the road here, as the U.K. continues to negotiate its way out of 43 years' worth of trade deals, with what is currently one of the biggest trading blocks anywhere on the planet.

And why should U.S. viewers care? Well, the U.K. is the seventh largest trading partner for the United States and the biggest trading partner for the United States comprehensively is the European Union.

So any ripple effects that we could see from a so-called Brexit of the U.K. would be felt in the E.U. and then further afield. Not saying, though, that it would tip people into a recession.

But in the meantime, let's focus in on how those markets did. As you can see, the S&P itself suffered down 3.6 of 1 percent. Even if you're a tech-heavy investor, there was no respite there because the Nasdaq was also down. But there will be some silver linings and some opportunities for people who are brave enough to get back into these markets as Monday gets underway in around about 48 hours there now.

WHITFIELD: All right, let's hope that is the case. I love the optimism. Thank you so much, Nina Dos Santos, appreciate it.

All right, coming up, millions of people in the U.S. in limbo, after this week's Supreme Court ruling on immigration. The impact of the decision on documented workers across the country, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:32:49] WHITFIELD: All right. Millions of undocumented immigrants living in the U.S. are now fearing that they will be deported after this week's U.S. Supreme Court ruling on immigration.

CNN's Dana Bash has more on the decision and its significant impact across the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Raw emotion outside the Supreme Court as those gathered learned of the 4-4 deadlock that effectively ends President Obama's executive order allowing some 5 million undocumented illegal immigrants to stay legally.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right any moment, anytime I could be deported.

BASH: As the White House said the President made no attempt to hide his disappointment.

BARACK OBAMA, (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We're going to have to make a decision about whether we are a people who tolerate the hypocrisy of the system where the workers who pick our fruit or make our beds never had the chance to get right with the law.

BASH: The GOP House Speaker called it a victory for the constitution.

PAUL RYAN, (R) SPEAKER OF THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: It's a win in our fight to restore the separation of powers. Presidents don't write laws. Congress writes laws.

BASH: The fact that the President tried to use his executive authority to go around the gridlocked Congress to allow some undocumented immigrants to stay legally, united Republicans and opposition, even those for immigration reform.

REP. ADAM KINZINGER, (R), ILLINOIS: I agree with the idea of immigration reform. I think it's something we need. I've been very outspoken about it but it's something that has to be sustainable coming through the House of Representatives.

BASH: All this makes the red-hot 2016 political issue of immigration even hotter. Donald Trump tweeting that, "the court kept us safe from executive amnesty for now". But Hillary Clinton has pledged to expand it, taking jobs from Hispanic and African-American workers. And Hillary Clinton calling the decision, "A stark reminder of the harm Donald Trump would do to our families, our communities, and our country."

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Build that wall! Build that wall!

BASH: Trump rode to victory in the GOP primary in using opposition to illegal immigration to rally his base.

TRUMP: Who's going to pay for the wall? A hundred percent.

BASH: But now, Clinton may get a political boost, thanks to angry Hispanic voters eager to help a less Democrat, especially in key swing states with large Hispanic populations like Florida, Nevada, and Colorado. A national poll last month showed Clinton at 62 and Trump at 23 percent with registered Latino voters nationwide

[12:35:16] A political divide that the president is clearly even more eager now to make wider.

OBAMA: Pretending we can deport 11 million people or build a wall without spending tens of billions of dollars of taxpayer money is abetting what is just really factually incorrect. It's not going to work.

BASH: The other reality this should put front and center for voters is how much power the next president is going to have in picking, who will fill the empty ninth seat on the Supreme Court? The GOP-led senate shows no sign of giving President Obama's nominee a vote and this immigration decision is just one example of extremely consequential decisions hanging in the balance until then

DANA BASH, CNN, Washington.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. Well, the state of Texas led the effort to block President Obama's immigration action.

It's Attorney General, Ken Paxton saying this, "This is a major setback to President Obama's attempts to expand executive power and a victory for those who believe in the separation of powers and the rule of law."

Mr. Paxton joining us now to talk about this at the same time, Mr. Paxton, good to see you. You know, the president of the United States said, he used executive powers because Congress didn't act on the issue and that's what he has, the right to do as the president of the United States. So, your states and two dozen other states that joined you in this suit admitted that the President has wide authority over immigration matters. So why did this action by President Obama in your opinion go too far and the Lower Court now being in agreement with you? KEN PAXTON, TEXAS ATTORNEY GENERAL: Sure, let me first state that our thoughts and prayers, the people of Texas thoughts and prayers are with the people of West Virginia especially for the people who have lost loved ones. But in answer to your question, there was no statutory authority for the President to come out and change the law the way he did. He made 4 million people that were here unlawful. He made them lawful and he offered benefits to these people. He can't do that. That's up to Congress. And if we allow this president to do it, then any president can do it.

WHITFIELD: So half of all the undocumented immigrants that potentially you know, qualified, you know for Obama's immigration plan -- you know, live in your state and talking about 825,000 according to the Pew Research Center. Are you concerned about the state of those who were relying on the President's plan to come out of the shadows particularly as the president underscored, you know these were in large part, you know, children who were born in this country, whose parents perhaps may be from somewhere else but his motivation was to keep them together as opposed to them being split up, some being deported, some being allowed to stay?

PAXTON: Sure. I mean, Congress needs to deal with the immigration issue because this is a much bigger issue. This particular issue is bigger than the immigration. It's about the constitutional authority of Congress and a constitutional authority of the President.

WHITFIELD: But Congress didn't deal with that. Isn't that what the White House is saying? Congress did not deal with it and that's why he used executive authority.

PAXTON: Sure. And it's true that Congress has not dealt with immigration in a broad sense. But that's still their job and they're elected to do that, there needs to be debate. But it's not -- no president have the authority to decide -- well, if Congress doesn't do something, I'm going to change the law. That -- No president can do that.

WHITFIELD: So, what do you think is next? Do you believe that -- you know, this argument, this effort just may return depending on the next administration or perhaps depending on who fills that still-vacant spot in the U.S. Supreme Court?

PAXTON: Absolutely. I mean, it's going to be -- This next election is going to be big in determining that. But ultimately, Congress is going to have to deal with this issue and hopefully they will deal with it. And we won't have a President stepping in and making decisions for everyone unilaterally.

WHITFIELD: All right. Let's talk about another case, an affirmative action-based case that originates from your state. This U.S. Supreme Court also weighing in on this, this is the Fisher versus University of Texas at Austin, the High Court opposing the school's affirmative action admissions policy saying that taking race into consideration as one factor of admission is constitutional. This case going back to this young lady Abigail Fisher, a white woman, arguing that she was unfairly denied admission based on her race. The High Court upheld the policy in a surprise 4-3 ruling. You were not particularly happy with that decision. I understand, even though it supported your State University. Why?

PAXTON: Well that's true. That was actually not our case. My office did not deal with that case. But we weren't happy because we don't think any decision should be based on race or color of the skin. It should be based on the merits of the students and that would be in our opinion a better policy. Now, the Supreme Court in the past has actually said, the only way to stop race discrimination is to stop discriminating on race. So that was what we were hoping the Supreme Court would continue to say.

[12:40:13] WHITFIELD: But it's in the argument. It's not discrimination based on race but we're talking about leveling the playing field where you may have some students who have the financial resources that may represent, you know, one particular sector of a community, whereas others may not be considered who happened to be of another race? But because they don't have the financial resources to be competitive on the same playing field.

PAXTON: Sure, now -- But then in this case, I think they clearly did take race into account and, you know, in our opinion, it should all be about the merits, who's the most qualified that should be the question that is answered by these schools.

WHITFIELD: All right. We're going to leave it right there. Texas Attorney General, Ken Paxton, thanks for your time and your input on these two very important cases. I appreciate it. We'll be right back.

PAXTON: Appreciate you having me on.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thank you. We'll be right back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:45:44] WHITFIELD: Three trials, three setbacks for prosecutors in the Freddie Gray death case. The latest coming this week after officer Cesar Goodson was acquitted in Baltimore. This comes on the heels of two other cases against officers charged in connection with Gray's death. One ended in a mistrial. The other, an acquittal. Six officers were originally charged. So now the question is, will any of the remaining officers be convicted?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Protests and anger over yet another full acquittal of a Baltimore police officer connected to the death of Freddie Gray. Above all, frustration that now possibly none of the six officers will be convicted of anything.

CARL DIX, PROFESSOR: Not guilty on murder is essentially, you can kill this black guy and no one is going to be convicted for it.

MARQUEZ: Cesar Goodson, the driver of the prisoner van Gray rode in and a 16-year veteran of the Baltimore police force faced seven charges, ranging from second degree murder to reckless endangerment. In a lengthy verdict from the bench, the judge said while mistakes may have been made, none of it amounted to criminal behavior.

TESSA HILL-ASTON, BALTIMORE CITY NAACP: I'm disappointed and I think that the rules and the law needs to be changed. Use of force, the police bill of rights. Everything is difficult, because what the police did was actions, but they're not criminal.

GENE RYAN, FRATERNAL ODER OF POLICE: While we agree with the verdict in this case, we also suggest that Mrs. Mosby reconsider her malicious prosecution against the remaining four officers. We are more than certain that they, too, will be found to be without guilt.

MARQUEZ: The prosecution claimed Gray died from injuries sustained during a rough ride, but the judge ruled while everyone agrees Gray was injured in the van, it was not clear to officers he was in distress, until the last stop, when medical attention was sought.

BISHOP ANGEL NUNEZ, PASTOR, BILINGGUAL CHRISTIAN CHRUCH OF BATLTIMORE: We all know what a rough ride is. And if you got in a van and then when you got off, you're in critical condition? Ouch.

MARQUEZ: Cesar Goodson hugged his lawyers and shook hands with Officer Edward Nero, who was previously acquitted. Question now, will all officers connected to the death of Fredie Gray be acquitted or even tried?

JOEYJACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think if ever, there was a case where the prosecution through that really the best they had at, it was this case. And so the fact that they didn't get a conviction really, I think it's going to force them to reassess what they do in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: That was Miguel Marquez reporting. So what does yet another loss for prosecutors mean for the remaining cases? We'll talk with our legal experts about all of this. And there they are. They are poised and ready to go. One's shaking his head already. We'll talk more after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:53:21] WHITFIELD: All right. As we mentioned, before the break, a second police officer in Baltimore has been acquitted of all charges in the Freddie Gray death case. So what does this mean for the other officers charged?

Let's bring back our legal guys, Avery Friedman is civil rights attorney and law professor in Cleveland. And Richard Herman, a criminal defense attorney and law professor joining us from Las Vegas. OK. So, right now we have an acquittal, we have a mistrial, and we have you know, still other undetermined cases. So, Richard, how influential is this outcome of Goodson, which had the more serious, the most serious of charges, the second-degree, a depraved heart- murder charge is now being acquitted. How does that impact the other pending cases?

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Fred, it's devastating. It's an absolutely nuclear explosion. The other cases should not be brought. The only other case that should be brought is a case against Ms. Mosby for her reckless and outrageous prosecutions here. Let me tell you something, Fred. They strategically went after a non-jury trial, with Judge Barry Williams, who is black, who is a former district attorney, who investigated police misconduct with the department of justice. And after hearing the case, and this is his decision, which have gone too scathing, Fred! There can be no other cases. This will be the precedent, coming forward. The state did not have evidence to prove Goodson at any criminal intent.

No showing Goodson gave a rough ride. No showing Gray needed immediate medical care. No showing Goodson intended to harm Gray by failing to secure him in a seat belt. And no credible evidence presented at this trial that the defendant intended for any crime to occur. This is devastating, Fred. It will be the law in the following cases. They cannot prosecute anymore. And the city paid $6.4 million without investigating this for a civil resolution. It's outrageous, Fred!

[12:55:20] WHITFIELD: So does that decision, you know, I guess, really put a magnifying glass on a few different potential errors? I mean, hear that decision, does it mean that there was an error that it was a judge as opposed to a jury trial? Does it mean that there was an overcharging in this case and perhaps in the others? Or does it mean a lack of evidence or are we - are you in agreement, you know, Richard, that it may mean all of the above?

HERMAN: It could be all, Fred. Certainly, it's an overcharging. And most importantly, there was no proper investigation before they brought these charges. The justice system is not for retribution or to prevent riots. You have to have elements of a crime. They did not have that here. This is really bad for Ms. Mosby. She failed to attend law school the day they taught law. This is horrible.

WHITFIELD: Oh boy! Wow. So, Avery, is this bad for Ms. Mosby? Is it bad for Baltimore? Bad for, you know, that the case in and of itself? How do you assess this, the decision and the fallout, potentially?

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, we need to dial it down and stay away from the cynicism. Where the case is right now is a lot different than when the case was filed. Because at that time, the prosecution, who they had to meet their burden beyond a reasonable doubt. And what was left out in the earlier explanation was that Judge Williams, in his opinion, which was thoughtful, was that there was plausible evidence, at least coming from the experts.

And the point was, it didn't meet the burden of proof. The prosecution now knows it. Whether it's bad politically for Marilyn Mosby, we don't know. I mean, whatever she's going to do, that's what it is. And whether there could have been more investigation, there's no case that wouldn't require more investigation. But at this juncture, where there is the agreement, Fredricka, is that given what we know, the idea of four more prosecutions, the retrial of porter with and the two other - the three other cases, it means it's time to end the litigation.

WHITFILED: So ...

FRIEDMAN: And by the way, there is no claim against Mosby. None! Zero. The idea that suggests you can go after a prosecutor when they have absolute immunity is just silly.

WHITFIELD: So, again politically, there may be - that may be a whole another argument as it pertains to her. But then I wonder, Avery, just to follow-up on that, does this mean that the other cases will also be, you know, judged trials, or will there be juries involved in those?

FRIEDMAN: What's going to happen is every lawyer representing the remaining defendants is going to drop a jury demand. Maryland is one of 16 of 50 states where if a defendant does it, there's nothing the prosecution can do. We are in one agreement. It's time to end the litigation.

FRIEDMAN: Richard? Last word?

HERMAN: Yeah, you can't proceed, Fred. It's over! It's annihilation for the prosecution here. She needs to resign. They need to prosecute her. This is outrageous, Fred.

WHITFIELD: So, you're saying when a prosecutor loses, particularly when it's high-profile, that in and of itself is reason to, you know, move on, be elected out of office, resign?

HERMAN: Yeah, because here she failed to adhere to her duties as a prosecutor. You have to have a chance to win the case, you have to do an investigation, and you have to know the elements of a crime. You can't just indict to prevent a riot, which is exactly, transparently what she did here.

FRIEDMAN: That's not true.

WHITFIELD: All right. We're going to leave it right there, gentlemen. We will be talking that again, because as we said, there are still other cases, more (inaudible) for trial. All right, Avery Friedman, Richard Herman, thank you so much. Appreciate it. So much more straight ahead in the newsroom. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Hello again everyone. Thanks so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.