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7 Hospitalized after Stabbings at California Rally; Scotland Threatens to Block UK-EU Divorce; Traders Nerves Tested Before Asian Markets Reopen; Weather Warning: West Virginia Could Flood Again; The New Face of White Nationalism in America?; Cameron to Meet with EU Leaders Monday; The Hunt for Saddam Hussein. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired June 26, 2016 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

[18:00:00] SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Here live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Suzanne Malveaux in Atlanta.

Breaking news now, a white nationalist rally in Sacramento descends into chaos -- that is right -- ends with multiple people stabbed.

Of the seven victims taken to the hospital, two of them have critical stab wounds. The rally was led by a group described as right-wing extremists and a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. This all unfolded on the steps of the state capitol after police say an anti-fascist group confronted them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIIP)

MATTHEW MCPHAIL, SACRAMENTO POLICE DEPT. SPOKESMAN: As the morning went on, a number of scuffles broke out and culminated with a number of assaults that took place on the capitol grounds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Knives, bottles, bricks, chunks of concrete all reportedly used as weapons.

Our own Nick Valencia is following the story. He is joining us now.

And, tell us more about the white nationalist group. What have you learned just within the last couple of minutes?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We've been digging into the past of the chairman, Matthew Heimbach. He's a very young in his mid-20s, a 2013 graduate of Towson University in Maryland.

And we showed you video last hour an incident she was involved in on March 1st, 2016, at a Trump event, a Donald Trump event in Louisville, Kentucky. We just got our hands on a civil complaint regarding this incident of the video you're seeing now. And we have to remind you this is of course a one-sided complaint. This is against Matthew Heimbach, the man you're looking at now, the man who is the chairman of the Traditional Worker Party. But he is described by the Southern Poverty Law Center as, quote, "the

face of a new generation of white nationalists." Heimbach is affiliated with the Traditional Worker Party, a recognized hate group, self-proclaimed political party which is ideologically opposed to different ethnicities living together in the same community, intermarrying. Heimbach himself has been quoted as saying according to this civil complaint, it's separation or mongrelization.

We talked to him last hour, our assignment desk did, and this is what he told us about the event. He was not at the event, we should mention that. But he did tell our assignment desk, the anti-fascists used knifes, bottles, bricks and chucks of concretes. They broke off a construction site. When they attacked, our men defended themselves to be able to drive the attackers off.

Now, according to the police, there are discrepancies as to how many people were stabbed. Numbers range between five and seven people. Heimbach himself is quoted as saying one person from his Traditional Workers Party was stabbed, possibly in the neck. Another hit in the face with a bottle.

Just to remind our viewers how this all started, just about 12:00 p.m. Pacific Time, this recognized hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center was confronted by an anti-fascist group. Now the Traditional Workers Party did have a permit to have this rally take place. But the anti-fascist group, by any means necessary, had every intention, according to one of their members, making sure that this did not happen.

And you see the aftermath there. Some bloodied neo-Nazi types who were injured in this melee.

MALVEAUX: And, Nick, in talking a member of the capitol protection section, George Granada, earlier today, it was pretty clear they expected there could be some problems here. You mentioned that the website, the various groups saying they were not going to allow this to happen.

In light of that, did they expect that it would turn this violent? Were they prepared? Were they aptly prepared to deal with this?

VALENCIA: Well, one of their sympathizers, the Golden State Skinheads had written on their website that they had seen forums, had seen blogs, that was announcing violence. So, there was that expectation at least from these groups and these white nationalist groups that they would be confronted by a violent crowd. Whether or not they knew it would turn into something like this, you know, that's anyone's guess.

But police must have known, Suzanne, that this -- something like this in a charged environment like this would have happened. One of the most curious things I saw from the video coming out of Sacramento is that imagery where you have these two groups facing off, a man with a stick, presumably on the other side, these white nationalist members, and the police on horseback not intervening. It seemed almost as if they were overwhelmed by the situation there and, you know, for now, you have seven people hospitalized after these stabbings.

MALVEAUX: The numbers as high as 100 to 300 they estimated for the group that said they did not want this hate group to hold this rally.

I want you to listen to one woman here who is part of the group, the anti-fascist group who clashed with these self-described white nationalists, who told a reporter in Sacramento why it was they came and what it was that they did.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YVETTE FELARCA, MEMBER, "BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY": Well, you know, it's important for anyone who's thinking about joining racist genocide, and a racist genocide organization like the Nazi groups that were holding this that they're not welcome, and if they trip and fall in the process of that, good. They need to go. And we succeeded, in driving them off.

REPORTER: It seems like you're very happy with the over all come out.

[18:05:00] Is there anything you might have changed? I mean, five people, from what we heard, at least five did get stabbed, part of the counter-protest group, which would be your side.

FELARCA: And we are really glad to say that the people who were injured did not sustain life-threatening injuries, and we do have people who are, you know, making sure that they're getting taken care of and that they have people who are taking care of them.

What this means though -- but I feel like all of us, from that, all it did was fuel our determination to keep this movement going and fight even harder, which is what we did after that. The Nazis, a couple of them tried to come out on the steps for about 20 seconds, and they were driven out, and were said to be scurried back into t building. Then they had to cancel the envier event.

And so, that's why the Nazis are dangerous, and that's why we need to take them on directly, take them on head-on, confront them. Go with as many people as possible prepared to shut them down, and that is what this demonstration did today.

REPORTER: I see you fighting. I see you leading the chants. I see you getting teary eyed talking about this. It seems like the whirlwind of emotion for you.

What does it mean to you that this was canceled, that you accomplished what was said to be your goal?

FELARCA: Well, I am very, very proud of everyone who came out for this protest today because this wasn't just a protest for the sake of protesting or for the record. We've got to build a movement in this nation. Everything is polarizing in this country and around the world, especially in terms of racist attacks on immigrants and the scapegoating of immigrants in this country, especially Latina and Latino and Mexican immigrants. I'm an immigrant myself from the Philippines. But we have people here

of all races, Latina, Latino, Filipino, Asian, Arab, white, anti- racist white people, LGBT people, people who are heterosexual, standing together, saying we will not accept or allow racist genocide organizing to take place on the front steps of the capitol of California, and we would do it again.

And I am really, really glad that we did that. And we'd do it again and we (INAUDIBLE) people to join us next time. The more people who come, the more we can defeat them in the future.

REPORTER: For anyone who may criticize the militant tactics or the violence, what would you say?

FELARCA: I say it's self-defense. And it is what we have to do because if we ignore them and allow them to just hold their recruitment rallies, they are not non-violent. They are organizing to attack and kill us. So we have a right to self-defense. We have an obligation to that, and that is why we have to shut them down by any means necessary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: On the phone now with me, Art Roderick, our law enforcement analyst.

And, Art, this has got to be the police force's worst case scenario. You've got two large groups, weapons, hell bent on attacking each other. As a former U.S. Marshal, tell us how police even respond to a violent crowd situation like this.

And we had just heard this young woman here saying, look, you know, they have no regrets. You know, they are standing up for their rights and by any means necessary. She said they would do it again.

How does law enforcement deal with two groups who are squarely opposed to each other and violence does seem to be a real option for them?

ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST (via telephone): Yes, it is -- it is a nightmare scenario for law enforcement. And apparently this particular rally, this white nationalist rally, had been planned for some time. So, everybody was pretty much aware that this was going to happen on this particular day.

But, again, I mean regardless of how much we dislike these groups and their rhetoric, they do have the right to rally, to hold these rallies. And it really puts law enforcement between a rock and a hard place because they've got to protect this particular group. And what you've got is they were probably initially overwhelmed here. You see the riot police did end up showing up. And they were probably on standby, waiting to see what would happen.

And, of course, we didn't see -- we haven't heard any reports of any arrests occurring at this point. And I think what's going to happen is law enforcement and the district attorney's office is going to take a look at all the video that's going to be collected and then make a determination if any charges are going to be brought against either side, either group.

MALVEAUX: And, Art, I do want to ask you. I mean it seems to me as if there could have been a way of containing this group, could there not, or at least separating these two groups? We know that both members of these groups seemingly were injured in this confrontation.

RODERICK: Right. Well, I mean usually -- I mean we've had protests around the country before where two opposing groups actually get permits to hold their protests. But law enforcement at that particular point in time can determine where these two groups are going to set up, and they keep them apart.

In this particular case, the white supremacist group did have the permit, but the other group did not.

[18:10:04] They just showed up en masse and just rushed these other individuals from the white supremacist group, probably outnumbered somewhere in the area of five or six to one. So it just got chaotic there for a few minutes before law enforcement could show up.

And then you had a lot of these side fights going on. Once law enforcement got there and was able to disperse the main group with the mounted police and the riot police when they showed up were able to disperse the group also.

MALVEAUX: All right. Art Roderick, thank you so much. Nick Valencia as well.

We'll have more of this after the break. We're staying on top of the breaking news out of California. We're also watching for more of the Brexit fallout. In a matter of hours, Asian markets going to open. Investors bracing for more Brexit-induced turmoil as some economists warned that a global recession -- that's right, a global recession may be on the way. More on that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: Breaking news: Scotland could put the brakes o the Brexit that set world markets on edge. A top official now telling the BBC that the country may do what it can to keep the U.K. from leaving the European Union.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BBC ANCHOR: Would you consider asking the Scottish parliament not to back such a motion of legislative concern?

NICOLA STURGEON, SCOTLAND FIRST MINISTER: Of course, because if-

BBC ANCHOR: Of course, did you say?

STURGEON: Of course. If the Scottish parliament was judging this on the basis of what's right for Scotland, then the option of saying that we're not going to vote for something that is against Scotland's interest, of course, that's got to be on the table.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: The news comes just hours before Secretary of State John Kerry boards a flight bound for London and Brussels.

And what a job he has ahead of him. Not only will he try to contain the panic over the Brexit, but there's also the urgent matter over who should replace British Prime Minister David Cameron.

Add to that in just hours, Asian markets are going to be opening, giving us a hint of whether we're going to see another financial earthquake like we did on Friday, when the Dow plummeted more than 600 points.

[18:15:08] Massive losses also reported across markets in Tokyo, Paris, and London.

I want to get right away to CNN's Paula Hancocks. She is live in Seoul, South Korea.

So, Paula, what are you hearing?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Suzanne, investors have had a couple of days here in Asia to mull over what has happened, and we likely to be in for a very volatile few weeks. This is not just the next few days we're looking at.

Obviously, there's a huge amount of uncertainty in the markets. Those Asian markets were absolutely hammered on Friday, and they didn't have a full day to react to what has happened because it was really unfolding during the Asia day on Friday. So, many investors will now want to get into the market and react to that.

Now, certainly, this isn't just one shock that the markets have to react to. You have the massive shock on Friday. You then have the prime minister resigning. You don't know who's going to be the next prime minister in the United Kingdom. And, of course, the opposition is in disarray as many of those resigning as well and suggestions that there was an attempted coup on the opposition leader.

We will have some certainty or at least some discussion from the U.K. finance minister, the chancellor of the exchequer, George Osborne, on Monday morning. That's about 2:00 a.m. Eastern, hopefully giving us some indication of what could happen.

MALVEAUX: All right. Paula Hancocks, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

With the U.K. edging towards the exit, many in Europe are looking for -- are looking to Berlin for leadership in these chaotic times. Remember, Germany is Europe's biggest economy, fourth biggest in the world, trailing only the U.S., China, and Japan. And the country was one of the six founding members of the E.U. along with Belgium, France, Italy, Luxembourg and the Netherlands.

Ambassador Peter Wittig is the German ambassador to the U.S. He is joining me now. Thank you, Mr. Ambassador. Really appreciate.

Let's first of all talk about Chancellor Angela Merkel. She has said, quote, "I would not fight now for a short time frame." But Germany's foreign minister said this process should get underway as soon as possible. Which position is the position of your government?

PETER WITTIG, GERMAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: Well, it's good to be on your show, first of all.

MALVEAUX: Thank you.

WITTIG: This is a watershed moment, and no doubt about it for Europe. But it is not the end of the European Union. We deplore that decision of the British, but we respect it.

But the European Union will remain a strong and reliable partner even without Britain for the United States, the most important international partner. And there's no reason for panic.

The E.U. will remain to exist, and the E.U. will remain strong. Now, we've got to give the British some space to digest the aftershocks of that decision in the referendum. They might have to cope with the consequences. But then after a while, it is important rather sooner than later that the British government provides clarity as to the implementation of that decision. And as you know, there are rules and regulations to provide for an orderly, regular and negotiated agreement with the U.K. outside the European Union.

So, no reason to panic. The E.U. will remain a strong union of 27 member states.

MALVEAUX: And what about what is taking place with Angela Merkel. I know she's invited her counterparts from France and Italy, the two other largest remaining members to meet in Berlin as well as the president of the E.U. to talk about the next steps.

What is the -- what is the hope there in terms of where you go from there, if this is a process that happens very quickly or you give Britain time?

WITTIG: Indeed, the chancellor will meet with the French president, the Italian prime minister, and the president of the European council, Tusk, on Monday in Berlin. And they will deliberate on the next steps and foreshadow what the European leaders will want to do on Tuesday and Wednesday when they meet in Brussels.

Europe needs leadership. Germany will provide leadership but not alone -- with others. We will fight for making this European Union strong, reform it, improve it. But we want to strengthen it. We have heard the message. It's a wake-up call for Europe.

We've got to make sure that these citizens' expectations will be met.

[18:20:05] We are not a union of bureaucrats. We are a union for the citizens. But it's also important and that it would be at the heart of the meeting in the coming weeks and months of the European Union.

We want to make sure we focus on those issues where member states cannot act individually but have to act together -- fight against terrorism, external, internal security, managing the refugee crisis, the immigration, and remain a competitive player on the global economic stage. That is only what a strong European Union can provide and not single member states.

MALVEAUX: All right. Ambassador, thank you so much for your time. When we have more time, we will discuss some of the specifics out how Germany will play a greater role in the European Union in the days and the years to come. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

WITTIG: Thank you.

MALVEAUX: Good luck to you.

Coming up, a rising death toll after historic floods hit West Virginia. Homes and roads washed away families struggling to salvage whatever they can. We're going to go live to one of the hardest hit areas.

And markets bracing for a rocky Monday after the Brexit bombshell. We're going to ask economist Ben Stein for his advice to investors.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:11] MALVEAUX: It's the worst possible news today for the people of flood ravaged West Virginia. More rain is on the way and a new flash flood watch is now in effect. This is part of the country that really doesn't need anymore water right now. Floodwaters receded just this weekend after ravaging parts of central West Virginia, sending houses down river and causing the deaths of at least 24 people.

Brynn Gingras is in one of the hardest hit counties where people are still taking stock of everything that they lost.

And, Brynn, there's this warning that there's more flooding that might be coming again.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I have got to tell you that it is even worse. If that was even possible, but the devastation could be worse.

I want to show you this, though. Look at this house. We can see into the living room. This is a house that even some people have described as it almost seemed like a tornado ripped through this area. That's how bad it is.

This house was lifted off its foundation and literally twisted from those flood waters that were raging through this area two nights ago. Like a said, a quarter mile here, there were still flames from a fire broke out when a propane tank burst in that home and then sent that home down the river. I mean, that's what we're hearing. Those are the sort of stories we're hearing as we walk around these areas that have just been devastated by these storms.

This home as well. This was split in half, and actually these homeowners now here trying to survey the damage. But certainly this cannot be recovered. But, yes, we've been hearing about all of these stories of survival, these stories of people not knowing what they're going to do now.

I will say this is an area that is extremely resilient. We've seen FEMA. We've seen National Guard. We've seen the Army all here trying to help out.

But, again, as we said before, there is a fear right now because there is another flash flood expected tomorrow. And I can tell you when you talk to people and they hear that word "flash flood," they now don't know what to expect. Before it was something they ignored. Now they're very fearful about what's coming next -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Yes, they have a lot to deal with there. And we certainly hope for the best for them. A very strong people there in that community.

Thank you, Brynn. We appreciate that.

Coming up next, the group involved in the violent protest clash today in Sacramento. They call themselves white nationalists, but what does that mean? A profile of the group self-styled leader up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

[18:30:39] SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: We're continuing to follow the breaking news out of Sacramento, where multiple people have been stabbed at a white nationalist rally that descended into chaos.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Police say brawls broke out after anti-fascist protesters tried to stop the rally. Witnesses say knives, bottles, bricks, chunks of concrete were used as weapons.

The group leading the rally is described as right-wing extremist and is considered a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

We are now learning more about the man in charge of it, Matthew Heimbach. David Mattingly talked to him three years ago after he started a white student union at his Maryland University. Here's a bit of the interview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Anti- Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center both call him a white supremacist. One writer says he is what the future of organized hate might look like. But college senior Matthew Heimbach greets the words with a smile.

(On camera): Are you proud of that?

MATTHEW HEIMBACH, LEADER, TRADITIONALIST WORKER PARTY: Well, I'm proud of what the fact the SPLC and the ADL are denouncing us. But we're not the future of organized hate.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): His critics say his actions suggest otherwise? This is Heimbach on surveillance video just last summer, posing with a rebel flag outside the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Alabama.

MARK POTOK, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: He writes about how white southern men ought to rise up once again to defend southern white womanhood. Well, you know, the last time we heard that cry was from the reconstruction era Klan.

HEIMBACH: I call myself a southern nationalist. I believe specifically in the identity of a southern people and believe with the --

MATTINGLY (on camera): The white identity? The European identity. White European identity?

HEIMBACH: Well, of course. I'm white. My culture is white, my customs are white and my language is white.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Last year, he led a group writing "white pride" and other pro-white slogans in public areas at Maryland's Towson University where he is enrolled. Heimbach commented, "No longer will the homosexual, Muslim and black supremacist groups be allowed to hijack our campus."

MARAVENE LOESCHKE, TOWSON UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT: I think this group is attempting to promote white supremacy issues, issues of non-inclusion on a number of levels.

MATTINGLY: Now the leader of a new group, the White Student Union, Heimbach complains about campus crimes, saying, "Every single day, black predators prey upon the majority white Towson University student body." He's organizing white security patrols armed with pepper spray.

(On camera): Is this your agenda? Is this a racially based, racially motivated agenda? Because this comment makes it very clear black and white.

HEIMBACH: I like what you did there. The idea is --

MATTINGLY: This is very serious stuff.

HEIMBACH: I agree with you. And the idea that the campus is offended that white students will be able to try and make our community a better place, let's look at this way, if a black student was doing this, they would be called heroes. They would be getting a medal from the mayor and the key to the city.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Doubtful. The crime wave Heimbach is so alarmed about appears to be one he invented. Just 6.01 crimes reported per 1,000 students. 2012 brought the lowest crime rate on campus in 17 years.

HEIMBACH: There is a black-on-white problem. But it's also a crime problem in general where everyone is at risk.

MATTINGLY (on camera): You can say it over and over and over again if you want. But the numbers just don't back you up.

HEIMBACH: The numbers do back me up. Well, let's look in terms of national crime statistics where --

MATTINGLY: Let's look at this campus. Single digits. They have been going down steadily since 1995.

HEIMBACH: There's a reason why the majority of the people in my organization are women. Because they don't feel safe on this campus going across the street at night.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): In spite of his claims, Towson is the safest of all Maryland public universities, at least seven of the last 10 years. He also claims to have 50 members, a number university officials strongly dispute.

(On camera): Heimbach has managed to provoke one change here at Towson, university police say they will be much more visible on campus in the days to come. Not out of a need to deter any new wave of crime, but to deter any new feelings of insecurity.

[18:35:02] (Voice-over): So far Heimbach hasn't broken any rules. The university can't do anything about it. He plans to graduate this spring with a degree in history.

David Mattingly, CNN, Towson, Maryland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Matthew Heimbach was on the radar of groups who tracked white nationalists. I want to bring in Nick Valencia, who is tracking the story.

And, Nick, why do we think this is somebody who's the new face of white nationalism?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he's been described and categorized and characterized as such in a civil complaint laid out from an incident he was involved in March 1st, 2016 at a Donald Trump rally. And straight from this civil complaint we glean a little bit more on top of that reporting from former reporter David Mattingly about who Matthew Heimbach was. He has been quoted as saying that Donald Trump is the first person

since Buchanan in the '90s and George Wallace in 1968 to be a guy outside the mainstream media, outside the mainstream, I should say, speaking to white interest. He showed up at that rally wearing Traditionalist Worker Party propaganda. He also had that "Make America Great Again" hat that's become the slogan of the presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump.

We do want to go to Ryan Lance who's with the Southern Poverty Law Center. Ryan Lance part of the intelligence report as well, an award- winning periodical that tracks hate groups.

Ryan, thank you so much for taking the time with CNN.

RYAN LENZ, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: Thanks for having me.

VALENCIA: What can you tell us more about this individual, Matthew Heimbach, and his organization? Just how large is it, just how big is it, what do you know?

LENZ: Heimbach has been active for some time on the radical right as been noted in that previous piece. He's been doing this since he was a student at Towson University. But over the last several years, as his group -- as his new group, the Traditionalist Youth Network that has morphed into this political party called -- he's allied himself --

VALENCIA: We're having some problems there, some connectivity problems with Ryan Lance but I'll just pick up where he left off. Digging into the Traditionalist Workers Party, this is a group that stands up against globalization. In fact the rally that was planned today in Sacramento was to stand up against globalism.

I understand that Lenz -- Mr. Lenz is back with us now. You want to just go ahead and pick up where you left off, talking about Matthew Heimbach, the chairman of this group?

LENZ: Sure. Sure. As I was saying, you know, over the years, he started as a student but as he's graduated and become more of a public face of organized hate in America, his group, the Traditionalist Youth Network and the political wing of that has become more aligned with the more violent and radical elements of the racist right. He's protested with groups with names like the Aryan Terror Brigade, with the Nationalist Socialist Movement and others.

And as you pointed out, you know, this is not the first time that Heimbach or members of TYN have been involved in violent outbursts at political rallies.

Let me add right now that, you know, first and foremost, we condemn violence in all its forms and there's a lot to be learned about what actually happened in Sacramento. But TYN rallies have been violent before.

VALENCIA: This was a planned counterdemonstration by the group By Any Means Necessary. I was just looking at their Facebook page. They were talking about an advertising this group wanting to stand up by any means against this group to stop this -- what they call fascist and racist organization.

Getting back to Matthew Heimbach, what do you know about his upbringing, his childhood, perhaps what may have contributed to his views?

LENZ: Well, I've actually spent hours interviewing Heimbach, and what I do know is that he was -- he's the son of school teachers who was introduced to this movement, to these ideas, by -- through the books that he read, namely Pat Buchanan. He cited some of Pat Buchanan's books as being the first to introduce him to the right nationalist's cause. But very early on he adopted -- he adopted, you know, the cause of southern nationalism or what we call the neo-confederate movement. This is a group of southerners who advocate for a second southern secession, for -- you know, for an independent south, largely on racial grounds.

MALVEAUX: And Ryan Lenz, this is Suzanne Malveaux. I have a question for you as well. Can you explain why it was that he was also at a Trump rally March 1st in Louisville? There was a civil complaint that was filed against him for what we -- you know, we saw video of him pushing an African-American woman.

LENZ: Right.

MALVEAUX: Part of an organization, you know, Black Lives Matter. Is there some sort of connection or intersection of this white supremacist group and why they might be appearing at this Trump rally?

LENZ: Well, I think without a doubt, we've seen that Trump's candidacy has motivated and energized the racist right in ways that we have not seen in decades.

[18:40:03] You know, for a candidate who comes out and, you know, from right out the gate says that they're going to build a wall with Mexico and then several months later advocates for a ban on all Muslim immigration in the United States, you can understand why this would be a preferred cause for -- you know, for someone who advocates for white separatism or white supremacy.

MALVEAUX: All right. Ryan Lenz, thank you so much. I really appreciate the analysis of this particular group, and also Nick Valencia for really digging in and looking at what took place earlier today in Sacramento, California.

VALENCIA: You bet.

MALVEAUX: It was really quite surprising how it all unfolded. And really a very serious situation.

VALENCIA: And we're talking about this intersection here. This -- according to this civil complaint, Matthew Heimbach calls Donald Trump a gateway drug, that they can move their group from civic nationalism to populism, and they're using him as somebody that they can use as a recruiting -- recruiting tool.

MALVEAUX: All right. Nick, thank you so much. Appreciate it. VALENCIA: You got it.

MALVEAUX: Coming up, the U.S. rushes to contain the Brexit fallout with Secretary of State John Kerry bound for Brussels tomorrow. We're going to get that live report.

Plus will Monday opening bell mean another rollercoaster ride for Wall Street? We're going to ask famed economist Ben Stein. That's right, he's here with us to give us his predictions.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: Secretary of state John Kerry rushing to Europe to contain the political shockwaves emerging after Britain's stunning vote to divorce from the European Union. Kerry will touch down in Brussels tomorrow for crucial meetings with EU leaders.

[18:45:03] That meeting happens just ahead of a summit where British Prime Minister David Cameron will try to explain to a room of officials from 27 countries just how Brexit happened.

I want to bring in our own Erin McLaughlin in Brussels.

And Erin, yes, that's what everybody really wants to know. When the divorce negotiations begin, how it actually happened. What do you think he's going to say?

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Suzanne. Well, that is the question on people's minds here in Brussels. And EU leaders simply don't have the answers and that is because it is entirely up to the UK to invoke what's known as Article 50 of the EU Treaty. That is essentially the escape clause, and only once that is invoked can actual negotiations begin.

Now I was at a briefing of reporters just a short while ago, and a senior EU official said that he does not expect for Prime Minister Cameron in that very critical dinner expected later this week to invoke Article 50. And he said that EU leaders here are understanding of that given the nature of the political crisis now unfolding in the UK.

Prime Minister Cameron has stepped down and if the Article 50 was invoked and negotiations began, well, it's completely unclear who the EU leaders would actually be negotiating with. So it looks like it could be many more months before the actual process begins to unfold -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: All right. Erin McLaughlin, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

In just a matter of hours, the Asian markets, they're going to open. How will they react? It will be a strong indication of whether we can expect financial turmoil like we saw on Friday. So is it time to buy or get out of dodge?

Just to talk about that, I'm sure you'll recognize my next guest. Economist Ben Stein. He is also the author of "How to Ruin Your Financial Life."

Ben, always good to see you. Good to have you here. So --

BEN STEIN, ECONOMIST: Honor to be here.

MALVEAUX: Yes. First of all, tell us what you think. Investors, how are they going to react when the markets open tomorrow morning?

STEIN: Well, JP Morgan was asked what the markets would do and he said they will fluctuate. And the markets will fluctuate. There's a tremendous amount of fear being ginned up by people in the media and by traders who make money on fear. But the actual magnitudes involved in the Brexit are tiny, especially for United States investors. The magnitudes are pennies compared to the size of the United States economy.

And I do not understand, except for the panic being whipped by the traders and the media why there is so much fear among people in the S&P 500 range. I just don't get it. I think people who sell into this may very well regret. And it's almost always a bad idea to sell into panic.

MALVEAUX: Ben -- but, Ben, come on. The media, it's too easy to talk about the media here. A lot of --

(CROSSTALK)

STEIN: Why is it so easy?

MALVEAUX: You've got some world leaders who got people who are saying politicians, they're afraid. They're scared. What do you make of it?

STEIN: Well, there's -- I make of it that they have not looked at the magnitudes involved. We export to Britain something like $55 billion. If we exported, say, $10 billion less than that, you couldn't even calculate how small an effect that would have on the United States' GDP. And yet the United States markets lost something like $1.5 trillion on Friday. So the magnitudes here are just all messed.

The magnitude of the trade that's going to be affected by this is quite small. It might even be nothing. And the magnitude of the market's reaction is enormous. It just doesn't make sense.

You had a correspondent on a few moments ago from Seoul, South Korea, who was talking about the effect on the South Korean market. Seoul exports to England $7 billion. If it fell by half, it would be nothing in the national income of South Korea. The magnitudes involved just are not very large. Yes, there could be panic. Panic can last a long time. Warren Buffett, the smartest guy in the world, who's ever been in securities, says that in the short run, markets are a voting machine. In the long run, they're a weighing machine.

In the long run, I don't think they're going to weigh much significance in this, but I could be wrong. But there's just nothing that big happening in terms of the numbers.

MALVEAUX: All right. Well, Warren Buffett, we know a very smart man indeed. You were a former White House speechwriter.

STEIN: The best.

MALVEAUX: I want you to apply what Donald Trump said about Brexit, the fallout during his trip to Scotland.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Look, if the pound goes down, they're going to do more business. You know, when the pound goes down, more people are coming to Turnberry, frankly. And the pound has gone down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: So, Ben, what do you make of that? Is his reaction to what had taken place right there where he was standing?

STEIN: Well, he's completely correct. I mean if the pound goes down, it's cheaper for people to travel to England or any part of the United Kingdom. It's cheaper for them to buy British goods. He's right. I mean I'm on record actually as saying on this very network that Mr. Trump doesn't know a goddamn thing about economics, and pardon me for using that crude term. And I think it's true. But I think in this case he's quite correct.

And by the way, I don't understand, you keep flashing this headline saying Kerry heading to Europe to contain Brexit panic. How is he going to do that?

[18:50:01] How will Mr. Kerry do that? It's a panic over something that just doesn't really even exist except in the minds of traders who make money by moving the markets and they have the power to move the markets for a long, long time.

MALVEAUX: So, Ben, how do you -- how do you convince those guys that there's nothing to worry about, though?

STEIN: Well, I can't convince the traders. The traders want to trade. The traders want the markets to be volatile. They're happy with that. That's their bread and butter. That's their Bentleys and their yachts. But for the ordinary citizen to think that this is a world-changing event, I think that is just on my humble opinion, I could be wrong, is a mistake. Over long periods of time, this is not going to mean very much.

MALVEAUX: All right. All right. Well, that's actually good news to hear, Ben. Thank you so much.

STEIN: I hope -- I hope so.

MALVEAUX: We've got to leave it there.

STEIN: Hope so.

MALVEAUX: All right. Thank you, Ben. Good to see you as always. And coming up, what you never knew about the search for Saddam

Hussein. A preview of tonight's brand new episode of "DECLASSIFIED" and the secrets exposed about hunting for one of the world's most notorious dictators. That's next live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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MALVEAUX: On tonight's brand new episode of "DECLASSIFIED" we go inside the hunt for one of history's most ruthless dictators, Saddam Hussein. Find out how a call about a detainee in Baghdad led U.S. forces right to the target.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then the field phone rang, and it was the commander of the Special Operations Unit.

[18:55:07] He goes, well, the guy we're looking for, we picked up in Baghdad. I go, really? He says, yes. And said, you know what we're doing tonight? We're going after Saddam.

I knew we had to move that night because I think once that guy was captured, the word would eventually get back.

You know, the reality is we didn't know what to expect. I mean this was a difficult place. It was the hometown of Saddam Hussein. Yes, there was going to be risk. So I expected a fight, a serious fight.

Based upon lessons from other missions very similar to this, I said, listen, when does the moon come up? 2100 hours. OK. Sunset is about 6:30. I wanted to be absolute blackout conditions, no illumination whatsoever when we get on to the objective. That would give us an advantage. I also wanted to move fast.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Wow. Joining me now is the host of "DECLASSIFIED" former chair of the House Intelligence Committee and current CNN national security commentator, Mike Rogers.

So good to see you, Mike. Wow.

You bet. Yes. Isn't that exciting?

MALVEAUX: That was a powerful piece of video right there, of storytelling.

ROGERS: Yes.

MALVEAUX: So tell us a little bit more about what we're going to see in tonight's episode.

ROGERS: Well, it's exciting. So we all know what happened at the end, but we don't know what all went into it. And so we're going to meet some of the army interrogators who were trained in trying to find small little bits of information to find out actually where Saddam was. And you're going to find out it came down to the craziest series of events. One, a chef. And the other, a favorite fish of Saddam Hussein. And all the twists and turns that went in it.

And think about this, you're trying to find a fugitive. It's hard enough in the United States where the police can go anywhere they want. Imagine trying to find a fugitive in Iraq when the insurgency is kicking up and all the challenges, twists, turns that go with it.

MALVEAUX: Yes. Mike, that was one hell of a tease there. A fish and a chef.

(LAUGHTER)

ROGERS: And you're going to have to watch to find out, Susanne.

MALVEAUX: I know. I know. It's a great tease. Definitely going to be watching here. So tell us, when Saddam Hussein was finally caught, was there any discussion ever about keeping him as a U.S. prisoner rather than turning over -- him to the Iraqis who sentenced him to death?

ROGERS: You know, there was lots of discussion leading up to the Saddam capture. What would they do with him? But at the time if you'll recall that the new government was getting ceded and it was very, very important for the new government to have the adjudication of Saddam Hussein and what would happen to him in his own country by the next government. So it really was not a big debate about trying to bring him back and arresting him and putting him in a U.S. prison.

It was more important to turn him over to this new burgeoning hopefully power in Iraq that was going to be the new democratically elected government. And of course obviously it doesn't work out that way. But it was -- that was a really important step for that government to show that they could put a trial on, that it could be fair, and it was long. And then at the end of the day, they meted out the justice which they wanted to see for their own leader for all the travesties he committed in Iran.

MALVEAUX: And, Mike, was there ever any thought that the United States thought that they'd be able to take him alive especially after the shock and awe bombing?

ROGERS: They -- lots of worry. So you saw that little piece that where the military commanders were thinking this is going to be a big, bloody fight just to get at him. And they were afraid in the beginning that he would have some serious Baathist loyalists, military officers who had gone with him that would fight to the bitter end. So there was lots of worry that it was going to be a brutal fight just to get their hands on him. And if he would survive that or not, I think, was a big question going into this operation.

MALVEAUX: And Mike, is there going to be any kind of surprise, a bombshell, something that perhaps we all didn't know in going after Saddam that you can share? Another tease maybe?

ROGERS: Ha, ha, you're going to -- think of a great novel, Suzanne. You're going to find out some things. Like any great spy novel, the twists, the turns, and the intrigue, it all happens tonight at 10:00 on "DECLASSIFIED" in that hunt. And so think of all the things you might -- you think it would go. It probably doesn't happen that way. And that's why you've got to watch tonight.

MALVEAUX: All right. Well, hey, great advertisement. I'm going to watch. You got me hooked. You got me wondering.

ROGERS: Good.

MALVEAUX: Mike Rogers, thank you as always.

ROGERS: Thanks, Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: And of course, as Mike said, be sure to tune in tonight for "DECLASSIFIED: THE HUNT FOR SADDAM." It is at 10:00. And before that, tune in for a brand new episode of "THE HUNT WITH JOHN WALSH." That's at 9:00.

I'm Suzanne Malveaux. It's been a pleasure. Have a great week.

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