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Two Suicide Bomber Terrorists Blow Themselves Up In Istanbul's Airport. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired June 28, 2016 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00] BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST (on the phone): Well, I think what we have to face is that hiding explosives is fairly easy, as well as the detonators. And anybody who is sophisticated at it, especially suicide vests, or even in suitcases, can get this. The best security in the world cannot stop this stuff, especially in the departure lounge.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Well, and you know, it brings to mind obviously what happened in Belgium at the airport there with the explosions going off where people were checking in for their flights at the counter. I mean, there are vulnerable soft spots in airports like you said that just can't be avoided. I mean, how do you protect those areas?

BAER: Ultimately you can't protect them. I mean, you have to -- well, maybe in Tel Aviv what they do is the initial security they do a name check and they do a pretty good search way outside the airport on the approaches to the airport. It is extremely cumbersome and the Israelis have a lot of experience of countering airport attacks. But for the United States, for Europe, we're just not that advanced. And we are also, just of the size of these airports, especially Istanbul, make it very, very difficult.

BROWN: Go ahead. We are just getting CNN's Ivan Watson to join us. He is based in Istanbul.

Ivan, what can you tell us?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on the phone): Well, it is an attack on Istanbul airport. It is going to be another attack on Turkey's suffering tourism industry which has been hit very hard by the violence, both ISIS and by the Kurdistan workers party, or PKK.

This is an airport that I traveled in and out of probably hundreds of times over the 12 years I was based in Istanbul. It had a police checkpoint at the entrance to the airport compound, and then it had a row of security barriers and metal detectors just to get into either the departures or the arrivals halls. So there was a second ring of security there that people had to go through and put their suitcases out on to metal detectors and have suitcases and their body search.

So if there has in fact been some kind of explosion, some of the photos that are starting to emerge on social media are showing. And we can't confirm that at this stage. Then it will be yet another very serious blow to a country that had positioned itself as a kind of international gateway linking east and west, north and south -- Pamela.

BROWN: And if you would, Ivan, just set the stage for us for the terrorists, that the issue of terrorism in Turkey. We know the Kurdish separatist movement has been responsible for attacks there. Obviously ISIS is a big concern. What is the landscape like there?

WATSON: The Turkish government has been fighting essentially two terrorist groups, two armed groups, simultaneously. Both ISIS, which has carried out some horrific mass casualty attacks in Turkey, numbers that we really haven't seen elsewhere. More than 100 people killed in a series of bombings in Ankara over the course of the last year. So some really horrific attack.

In the meantime, the war that the Turkish state has been fighting against the armed Kurdish movement, that's a war that goes back some 30 years, has very much intensified over the course of the last two years where you have entire cities and towns in the southeast of the country that have been blockaded and bombarded with government artillery. And the PKK has been lashing back. The war that was largely kept in the countryside in previous decades has been erupting in the biggest city in the country, in Istanbul, which has perhaps the largest single concentration of ethnic Kurds in the whole country. So this is a major, major security challenge for Turkey right now. Two armed groups, determined enemies, that have carried out attack after attack against soft points throughout this country.

BROWN: And at this point, again, we do not know who is behind this.

But Bob Baer, I want you bring back in as we watch this unfold, the aftermath and these pictures at the assemble airport, why should people in the United States be paying attention to this right now? How does it affect us?

BAER: Well, ultimately we are the target. I think the fact that this is Ramadan, that we haven't been attacked suggests the Islamic state does not have networks here which is the good news. But I think what we also have to understand after Orlando is how vulnerable places are like night clubs, airports and the rest of it. And also just the fact that this conflict in the Middle East is, you know, sort of lapping at our shores. And it would take horrendous amount of effort and enormous amount of money to protect our public places. And even then, the worries of the police is they shift to softer targets.

[15:35:21] BROWN: All right, I want to bring in Nick Paton Walsh. We get the very latest from him -- Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Very minimal we know at the moment still, Pamela. We know these two explosions and quote "multiple injuries."

But let me just give you a little bit more context as to how significant a transit hub this airport is I have to say, you know, in the years I have been traveling out of there. It has massively transformed. It is one of the most densely populated places, frankly, you can find often. The waiting areas crammed of individuals. Turkish airlines who uses some of their hubs now have flights all over the world. So you couldn't really have for that region a more internationally symbolic potential target.

But also to bear in mind there is quite a lot of security there. Now, Ivan was referring to the checkpoint you have to come through before you get in to the original car parks and where the taxis drop people off. There is then again a set of metal detectors that you now have to pass all your baggage through and goes through yourself. That is relatively reason for its intensity I have to say. And it is not clear quite exactly where these explosions, if indeed there were bomb blasts, still very early information at this particular stage, where precisely they went off.

Some of the social media pictures we are seeing seem to suggest damage that permeated far enough inside the actual waiting area itself where people would normally check in. But this comes at an extraordinarily dangerous time in Turkey's history. A very high profile target as I say if it was indeed a terrorist attack.

And as Ivan was mentioning, there are two potential candidates here. I have to say Kurds, who are one of the two, tend normally to focus more on military or police targets. That hasn't always been the case. They have hit civilian tarts quite callously in the past months. But aside from that, too, we are on a day that's of strategic significance for ISIS, under intense pressure like they have never really seen before. Nearly half their territory according to U.S. officials now taken from them.

This is the second anniversary of the declaration of their so-called caliphate. So a day of symbolism for them. We have no idea of what really happened honestly. And I have to be careful at the moment, the apart from multiple injuries from two explosions and reports of where potentially gunfire following that, too.

But a very chilling moment I think for ma y people who travel through Istanbul despite Turkey's complex past few years. Still, a huge cosmopolitan vibrant city. Many Syrians there. Many international part of the community there as well. And Aturk (ph) airport absolutely the hub of that. I have to say when I hear this myself, you know, I realize the sheer those (INAUDIBLE), the sheer of volume of people you know who go through an airport like that, Pamela.

BROWN: So many people. I mean, and as we heard it is the third biggest airport in Europe.

David Rohde, I want you bring in, CNN global affairs analyst just to get your view and the significant of an airport like this (INAUDIBLE) being hit. Now, we don't know the specifics. We don't know if terrorism was behind this. But what is your take so far, David:

DAVID ROHDE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: It is a very high-profile target and a very well protected one. So it is a setback for the Erdogan government this has happened. You know, the warnings of that type of attack for years, from the Kurds but particularly from ISIS. And the big fear in Turkey has been that, you know, it could be Islamic state. That they have so many fighters that are part of their territory. And it seems almost like Islamic state has been held back from carrying out attacks. They've been slowly increasing. So if this is ISIS it is sort of a new chapter in Turkey and more of a direct challenge to President Erdogan and the Turkish state.

BROWN: And again, you know, as we wait to hear the fact, I just asked Bob Baer this question, too. As watch this in the United States, why should people here in the U.S. be paying attention to what is unfolding at the Istanbul airport right now, David?

ROHDE: Well, as you mentioned, it is the third largest airport in Europe. Turkey is a NATO ally. There's been disagreements between the Obama administration and the current Turkish government but Turkey's long been seen as this sort of one of the most moderate nations in the Islamic world and a real growing, vibrant economy.

Again, there's been ups and downs in the relationship, tensions between Israel and Turkey. But this is a very modern city, one of the most modern in the world. Turkey has a huge middle class. So if the conflict in Syria is now, you know. And we don't know who did this. We have no idea the numbers of injuries so I don't want to exaggerate what's happened. But if Turkey becomes more unstable, that's a sort of much more dramatic shift in the war in Syria and spread of ISIS. And we really have not seen, again, this kind of attack in Turkey. It is such a high-profile target so far. But again, let's wait and see what comes with the new details.

[15:40:08] BROWN: Yes, we are awaiting that. But just to clarify. You said this would mark a more dramatic shift. In what way, David, just to make sure we understand what you're saying there?

ROHDE: Well, again, I apologize because it is so early, but you know, if this is the Islamic state, there has been a sense that they have not really gone that aggressively at the Turkish government and that Turkish security forces. That they have used Turkey as a base to operate through, that fighters that have move back into Europe, have been able to transit Turkey and they have decided not confront Turkey because they needed to sort of operate there without a real, you know, effort by Turkey to crush their activities. If is the signal a change of strategy by ISIS to attack, you know, one of the most high profile targets in the country, Istanbul's international airport, that would be a major change. And we don't know what this is. But if it does represent that change that's a very serious issue.

BROWN: All right. Nick Paton Walsh has some developments for us - Nick.

WALSH: Nothing particularly major, I have to be honest. But we are seeing a tweet from Turkish news state agency say a large number of police and medical staff have gone to the scene of that particularly area. And we don't know at this stage anything about what level the multiple injuries are at, but the volume it seems of personnel being dispatched would be an indication of something very grave has occurred.

I should point what David was saying too. You know, we are at such an early stage, pointing at culprits does seem at this stage speculation. But ISIS is sort of a very key point close to the Turkish border as well. One of the main towns they use as a transit hub from the areas they control inside northern Syria into southern Turkey where, as he points out, they have been comparatively calm in terms of taking on the Turkish government to increasingly put pressure upon them.

One of the main transit points has called the town (INAUDIBLE) been under intense pressure from Kurdish forces working with some U.S. support. That impression has increased. And it is vital for ISIS because it is their main route out of northern Syria into southern Turkey that they use. Pretty much actually their only real route left to the outside world, many argue. It is under greater pressure. And I think possibly if we end up seeing a situation where ISIS are blamed for this or claim responsibility, people may look at that increased pressure as perhaps a turning point where they decide to target Turkish facilities directly.

But all I say that is far too early at this stage. At this moment what we know of is two explosions, many injured and according to Turkish news agency, a large number of police and medical staff to the scene I should say. Semi-official that news agency here. A very tragic moment, though, for the region to see something like this caught in explosions to this degree. The social media pictures emerging do seem to show substantial damage inside the terminal. We simply don't know exactly where these blasts were, who caused them, what the nature of them exactly were. But the level of security at that airport might make you think perhaps they would have been initiated before people got inside the main check-in area. That's simply because of the number of x-rays you do have to go through in order to get in. Very stringently enforce simply because of the volume of scrutiny and pressure Turkey is currently under right now when it comes to terrorism -- Pamela.

BROWN: We are seeing to that personnel, the ambulances is coming in to the airport at these pictures.

I want to bring in Andrew Finkel, freelance journalist is inside Istanbul.

Set the stage for us, Andrew. What are you learning?

ANDREW FINKEL, FREELANCE JOURNALIST (on the phone): Well, there have been two major explosions at the Istanbul's main airport, one inside the terminal, one outside the terminal. We know that there had been people injured. There's ambulances ferrying the injured throughout hospital as well as the taxi rank outside. Instead of taking tourists to their hotels, they're taking wounded people to the hospital. We believe that at least one or two people have died in this explosion. We don't know of the numbers exactly yet. We also know that there was gunfire. And so we might expect even more casualties.

BROWN: And I imagine, Andrew, as a freelance in Istanbul, you have gone through this airport many times. What is the significance of this airport that is, you know, to many considered one of the safe places to be in the city for to be hit, what is the significance of that? FINKEL: Well, it is one of the busiest airports in the world. The

national carrier (INAUDIBLE) people from, you know, -- it's become an international hub taking people from all over the world to all over the world. Many of the people then actually even get out of the terminal.

So, it is a very, very busy place. Of course it's been a less busy because there have been incidents like this in the city previously and this has put off many casual tourists from coming to Istanbul and to Turkey. Turkey by the way is having a very bad year, a very bad season.

But this is a big airport. This is a very secure airport. You have to go through external checks even to get into the airport. And once you are inside the airport you have to go through additional checks to enter the plane. So, it's not an airport which takes safety or security lightly. But indeed it may have turned out there have initial reports suggesting that the perpetrators (INAUDIBLE) were spotted and they had set off their explosions early.

[15:45:37] BROWN: And I want to bring in Ivan Watson again, if you would. Stand by, Andrew.

And just to get some context on the timing of this and what that might mean, Ivan, as we try to learn more about who is behind this.

WATSON: Hard to tell right now. It is the Muslim holy month of Ramadan right now. Don't know if that figures in somehow. But you also have to look at they up tick of violence of bombings that had been hitting Istanbul alone just in the last year.

I mean, you had in June 7th, you had at least 12 people killed when there was a bombing hitting a police bus in Istanbul just a couple miles from the airport where this latest violence seems to have taken place. In March you had a suicide bombing on one of the busiest pedestrian thoroughfares in the city which appeared to have targeted foreign tourists there. And in January, you had another suicide bombing in one of the busiest tourist districts, the old city, in Istanbul.

So there has been an increase of violence taking place in Istanbul alone. And some of it has been attributed to ISIS, which is just across the border from Turkey. Its long border with Syria. Turkey has been rounding up suspected members of ISIS for more than a year now and has been participating in attacks against ISIS in Syria. And then simultaneously, you have the fact that the war between Turkey and its largest ethnic minority, the Kurds who make up some 20 percent of the population, that that 30-year war has dramatically intensified over the course of year. The Kurdistan workers party or PKK has traditionally targeted the security forces -- police, army, whoever is behind whatever took place at Istanbul airport. And again, the initial images that we are seeing on social media, it does look like something quite serious that has happened there in a well-protected and incredibly frequently traveled international gateway to Turkey's largest city. Whatever has happened there, it will once again puncture both the

tourism industry that Turkey relies on to a great deal its economy. And the position that the government has taken in which it is fighting a war on two fronts against two well-armed and very well mobilized and motivated essentially terrorist organizations -- Pamela.

BROWN: And we have just confirmed, Ivan, that this attack was at the international terminal. What can you tell us about the security there?

WATSON: OK. For people who are trying to enter the airport compound, there is an initial kind of checkpoint that you have to travel through by vehicle which is manned by police officers holding basically sub- automatic rifles. So they do a kind of a cursory check. Now, at the entrance to the international terminal where taxis are depositing travelers and so on, at every entrance, people have to go through a ring of metal detectors that are manned by both police officers as well as kind of by private security guards as well. So you have to take off your belts, your watches, you have to pull your laptops out and put your suitcases through metal detectors.

I have, by my estimates probably traveled hundreds of times through this airport and I have never heard of an incident quite on scale of this we're seeing here in the first images emerging from Istanbul Aturk airport. It is incredibly busy. Turkish airlines, the state airline, has grown substantially over the course of the past decade, extending all across Africa to South America. It is a very busy airline in its own right. And the government in Turkey has been building, controversially, a third airport in Istanbul because of what is described as overcrowding in Istanbul.

So if you're even trying to transit through this airport, the lines back up in some cases for half-hour or more just trying to go through security, to go through another part of the airport. Turkey is dealing with very serious security threats right now because it borders Syria and Syria is such a mess and millions of refugees from Syria have been living in Turkey now for years. And the conflicts in Syria have been erupting in Turkey with ISIS carrying out murders of Syrian activists that don't like ISIS in Turkey cities. And of course, the war against the Kurdish group, the Kurdistan workers party which is listed by the U.S. as a terrorist organization, that war has dramatically increased. And we have seen the number of PKK linked bombings taking place in Istanbul alone over the course of the last year-- Pamela.

[15:50:43] BROWN: I want to bring in Rafi Ron. He joins us now. Used to actually run the airport security Tel Aviv.

And Rafi, you know this particular airport well. Tell us about the departure area where this attack took place.

RAFI RON, FORMER DIRECTOR OF SECURITY BEN-GURION AIRPORT (on the phone): Well, unlike most airports that we know here in North America or even Western Europe, the airport in Istanbul is were so protected by a check point of the entrance to the terminal where the security personnel are put on (INAUDIBLE), but that is pretty much a - it looks like an industrial process. It turns out as we have seen today, if the information that we have is correct, then the explosion occurred inside is that despite the measures, somebody was able to deliver a device into the terminal. Once you're in the terminal, it is very much like any other terminal that we know.

But very important point to be made here is the Istanbul airport is a hub airport that connects a lot of flights from all over the Middle East, the Southeast Asia, Europe, and even as far as the U.S. So the -- you get a huge graphic of people, passengers and non-passengers of the airport in the terminal. The terminal is relatively very crowded during peak hours. And the security conditions there are very difficult to control.

BROWN: OK. I want to bring in David Rohde now. As we see this play out, David, certainly, you know, Turkey's proximity to Syria raises the risk of terrorist attacks. But something similar happened in Belgium not long ago. What is stopping something like this happening in the United States where there are these areas that are not as protected?

ROHDE: Well, it is a very different situation in Turkey. I think Ivan mentioned earlier that there are, you know, a million or more refugees from Syria inside Turkey. There is very little control of that border. So, you know, it is a much more different situation. I don't see this as exemplifying a larger threat in the United States.

It is more for Turkey, and I Ivan and Nick said this, I think for the government of president Erdogan, he has chosen to sort of confront ISIS. At the same time that he is confronting this long running Kurdish insurgency that issue the level of violence that, you know, hasn't been seen for many years in Turkey. So this is an issue for the United States in terms of it being a NATO ally. That's an issue in terms of the strength and stability of the Erdogan's government. Has he bit off more than he can chew? Which of the two groups, you know, potentially carried out this attack? And again, as we talked about earlier, will this be more attacks?

The tactic is of concern because it is a large number of ambulances as I am just watching the video like everyone else. If they were able to get in where there was a large line of people that would be similar to the Brussels attack. But again, I think that airports in the United States, and the control of the people entering the United States is much, much stronger than what exists in Turkey today.

BROWN: All right, Ivan Watson, I want you bring you back in because you have some news for us, is that right?

WATSON: That's right. Our team on the ground in Istanbul, our producer has been speaking with a Turkish official who has described what he says happened that police in the airport fired shots at suspects at the x-ray, the metal detectors at the entrance to the international departures hall. And the two suspects, this again according to an unnamed Turkish official speaking to our producer on the ground in Istanbul, blew themselves up. The attackers detonated effectively suicide bombs there. And it would have taken place shortly after 10:00 p.m. local time in Istanbul in Turkey. So again, a Turkish official telling CNN that it appears that police

fired at two suspects who then detonated two separate explosive devices outside of the first perimeter, the first perimeter of security to the entrance of the international arrivals hall at Istanbul's international airport. That's the latest that we are getting from the ground in Istanbul. And we will bring you up to date with more as we get it, Pamela.

[15:55:41] BROWN: Yes, very troubling to hear that, Rafi. I want to bring you back in here. And hearing this, what Ivan just reported that two people blew themselves up there and then there was some exchange of gunfire, what is your analysis on that??

RON: Well, I think it indicates that the Turkish security plans has actually worked this time and probably saved a lot of lives because if the information is accurate, and that explosion occurred at the check point at the door of the terminal, there is probably a place where a fewer casualties may result in comparison to an attack inside of the terminal which is usually much more crowded. It also have the effect of a close volume they are suffering from an explosion.

So I would say that this is enforced the terrorists to blow themselves up on the other side, that that shows that to some extent it worked. But once again, are as we are learning from the coming news, there is still a large number of casualties. We still have to wait and het much more details and solutions about that.

BROWN: OK. And we are actually just getting some detailed information from the Turkish justice minister who says ten people have died in this attack at the Istanbul airport. At least ten people have died. Other injuries as well we know about. As we learn that two people blew themselves up right in the departure area. And there were security guards there. They exchanged gunfire with those two people.

As we learn more about this, Rafi, you heard David Rohde say the U.S. and their airports do not face the same threat of someone coming in and launch, you know, similar attack or the same kind of risk as perhaps Turkey does. But what is your take on it? What risk does the U.S. have in this particular matter?

RON: Well, I accept the conclusion that the level of threat here in American airports is lower. But at the same time, we have to understand that the vulnerability of our airports to such text is also higher. The Istanbul airport as we now everybody knows, as we may be much better protected. And despite of that we have this kind of attack. I mean, in light of what happened in Orlando, just take that scenario and shift it to the airport. And the and that is where I stop agreeing with the conclusion that we can feel safe.

BROWN: All right, David Rohde, I want to give you the final word learning that there are two people blew themselves up right in the departure area of Istanbul airport, the third largest airport in Europe -- David.

ROHDE: Again, it all depends who did it. If it was the Islamic state, it is a dangerous development but we should wait for more details. What Ivan describe mattes. What we heard from our sources. You know, ten being dead as a tragedy. It appears it could have been worst. At least it might have been stopped sooner than it happened. And again, it id ISIS then this is the beginning of some sort of campaign in Turkey, that a very worrying development.

BROWN: Certainly. Thank you so much for our team for bringing us the latest, giving your analysis on this. Again, an attack at the Istanbul airport, ten people killed at least according to the Turkish justice minister.

Special coverage continues now with my colleague Jake Tapper in Washington.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world.

We have breaking news in our world lead today, and it is bad news. Sirens blaring, confusion. Complete chaos as a terrorist attack rock Istanbul at the Turk airport today. The Turkish justice minister just said that at least ten people have been killed in the attack. Turkish officials tell CNN that two terrorists blew themselves up in the international airport.