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Bangladesh Hostage Siege; Terror Investigation. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired July 01, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:02]

HUGH NAYLOR, "THE WASHINGTON POST": ISIS commander, maybe fought in the Chechen wars with Russia.

There are reports that he took asylum in Austria, tried to smuggle weapons into Sweden. We're hearing this, but I think the bigger picture here is that the Turkish authorities have not been very transparent with their investigation with the media and we're getting conflicts reports as to who this guy is and who the actual bombers are.

I think initially there were reports that the bombers were Kyrgyz, Uzbek and Russian. And today we're hearing reports that there were two Russians.

(CROSSTALK)

NAYLOR: And so right now I think there's just a complete lack of clarity, particularly on the Turkish side, as to what's going on.

And so I think we kind of need to guard ourselves in terms of speculating who these masterminds are. Erdogan, the Turkish president, today even gave a statement saying it was probable that ISIS was behind these attacks, but that suggests to me if they're not sure if ISIS is behind the attacks, then how do they know who the mastermind is?

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: I hear you, abundance of caution.

But if in fact, at least one, potentially two Russians, as we're talking, also former Soviet republic, this isn't the Levant. Right? This is a different part of the world. What kinds of fighters are these? Talk to me about their training.

NAYLOR: Sure.

I think that a lot of -- there are several thousand fighters within ISIS, as well as al Qaeda's wing in Syria, Jabhat al-Nusra, who are from the former Soviet republics. Lots of Chechens, people from southern Russia, et cetera.

These guys have had experience waging sort of guerrilla insurgencies against the Russians in the '90s. They have a lot of battlefield experience. They have gone into Syria and even Iraq and they have trained foreign fighters. They have trained local fighters tactics that they learned while fighting the Russians.

For instance, the city of Fallujah in Iraq is actually guarded by I think an Uzbek brigade. And there are a number of Chechens who have taken prominent roles, not only within ISIS, but within Jabhat al- Nusra, which is the al Qaeda wing. So these guys have I think played a very prominent role within the military side of things with these organizations.

BALDWIN: Got to get it straight and got to see what exactly is going on and who was responsible. Again, though, we were hearing this was very much on purpose in the winding down days of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

Hugh Naylor, thank you very much.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BALDWIN: All right, and we're continuing on here. I'm Brooke Baldwin live here in Istanbul, Turkey, as we have been covering in the wake of the new developments here of the triple suicide bombing at this airport just several nights ago.

But let's begin with what's happening not too terribly far from where I'm standing in Bangladesh, in Dhaka, Bangladesh, where we have been watching this ongoing violent siege, several dozen hostages having been taken inside of this bakery by day, Spanish restaurant by night.

We know this area is surrounded by police, by law enforcement. In fact, we have learned that one member of the law enforcement has been killed. We have heard from the owner of this bakery who managed to escape from within and has described these gunmen as young men, saying there are at least six to eight of them. Those individuals inside of this restaurant, approximately 20 to 30 of them, many of them foreigners and also just in this particular area of Bangladesh, it is an affluent area of Bangladesh.

It's very close to the American Embassy, a number of embassies, in fact, in this area, cafes, restaurants and again foreigners inside. Right around now the 1:00 in the morning hour there in Dhaka, let's begin this hour with Sumnima Udas, who is our Delhi correspondent who covers this part of the world for us.

And, Sumnima, tell me what you know.

SUMNIMA UDAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very much an ongoing hostage situation there, Brooke.

What we know is that one police officer has died. He was wounded in that operation. We also know, as you mentioned, that the owner of the restaurant, he mentioned that around 20 people were in that restaurant when the assailants stormed into that building. He believes all 20 may be still trapped and held hostage.

This is an area, as you mentioned, very affluent. A lot of expats live there. There are lot of restaurants, lots of cafes. As one commentator mentioned earlier, truly the epicenter of wealth in Bangladesh, a massive area, and, of course, this is the last Friday of Ramadan. So, as you can expect, a lot of people would have been in that area at the time.

[15:05:13]

In fact, not too long ago in September of last year, this is the same area where an Italian expat was gunned down. At that time, ISIS had taken responsibility for that attack. A month later, a Japanese worker had also been killed in Dhaka. There's been a number of attacks against foreigners, but mainly against bloggers, atheists, writers, people from there LGBT community, but this is certainly the first time we're seeing this kind of attack on a large group of people in this kind of a hostage situation, Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. Sumnima, thank you very much. Stand by for me.

I have got someone on the phone. I have Lori Ann Walsh Imdad, an American teacher, Lori, at an American Standard International school there in Dhaka.

Lori Ann, if you can hear me, tell me where exactly you are. I understand did you hear gunshots?

LORI ANN WALSH IMDAD, WITNESS: Yes. I did.

I'm about a block away from where the restaurant is. I can still see people out on the streets. They're gathered and there are police still on the street. The situation is still ongoing. As far as I can tell, I haven't heard gunshots in a while. I think everybody is pretty much sitting and waiting and trying to get the hostages out.

I imagine I will hear more gunshots later once the situation erupts when they probably go in and take everybody out.

BALDWIN: I don't know if we can say for certain just because there are no gunshots that means the hostages are being released. But I promise, as soon as we hopefully get that positive information...

(CROSSTALK)

IMDAD: I have no hopes that they're going to release -- I'm saying that they may go in and try and free them.

BALDWIN: Ah, I see. I see. I see.

IMDAD: Yes.

BALDWIN: This restaurant, tell me about this restaurant.

IMDAD: They started it basically for the expat community.

I know the people who started the restaurant up, and that was the premises, that they couldn't -- there was no place in Dhaka like this where you could go in and buy Italian bread that actually tasted like anything you would eat in the U.S. or Europe. So this is what they started with. And they have a lot of baked

items. It's a nice place to go for brunch on a Friday morning, which is a weekend day for us, and the kids play on the grass and the parents enjoy the food. So it's a nice hangout spot.

BALDWIN: Lori Ann, if you're still with me -- and, forgive me, there's a bit of a delay. I'm standing here in Turkey. Actually, I'm being told I'm going to bring in Shama Hussain.

Shama, can you hear me? An American visiting Bangladesh.

Shama, are you with me? You're live on CNN.

(CROSSTALK)

SHAMA HUSSAIN, WITNESS: Yes, I can hear you.

BALDWIN: Shama, I understand. Are you close by this restaurant?

HUSSAIN: yes, I visited there a few months ago actually.

So I live just five minutes from where it's taking place. So we could actually hear the gunshots when they went off initially from our balcony. And I had a cousin who was coming upstairs and he told us there's some kind of attack taking place outside.

BALDWIN: And, Shama, how long ago did you hear those gunshots?

HUSSAIN: I want to say it was like almost -- probably almost an hour ago. Yes, it's been a while now.

BALDWIN: So, an hour ago. It's been silent ever since.

We're waiting to get some kind of information. We heard from law enforcement that they were trying to communicate with the gunmen inside. You said that you had recently this restaurant with your cousin.

Can you tell me about this restaurant? How large is this restaurant? Would there be places to hide within this restaurant?

HUSSAIN: Yes. It's actually very -- I think it's fairly new. It's a very posh restaurant. It's beautiful. They have like outdoor seating and they have really ample space and it's really popular amongst young people.

[15:10:00]

And, you know, my cousins go there all the time. They live here. And one of my cousins actually has four friends who are actually inside right now, so we're all really anxious, because we actually know people who are inside.

BALDWIN: OK. Shama, forgive me. I had someone in my ear. I just want to stay with you. It's a beautiful restaurant. It's a posh restaurant here in this part of town. From what I understand, this all began right around midnight your time. How many people would be out and about around these restaurants eating, eating, having a drink on a Friday night?

HUSSAIN: It would be a really large amount of people on a Friday night.

First of all, it's Ramadan here, so this around the time that people can actually eat before their fast starts in the morning. It's a really popular time for people to be out. It's a popular time for young people to be out, especially at that restaurant.

And like I just said, I have a cousin who has four friends inside that restaurant right now, so their parents are waiting really anxiously outside the restaurant for news.

BALDWIN: Oh, my goodness, forgive me. I did not hear that part of it. I'm standing in the middle of a busy highway in Istanbul talking to you tonight, so forgive my not hearing that.

Have you talked to those four friends' family members? Have they been in touch with these four at all?

HUSSAIN: No.

From what I hear, they haven't heard anything, but, you know, it's just -- it's something so scary. It's so close to home and to actually know someone inside. I don't know them personally. It's my cousin's friends. But it's just a really scary thing. I don't think they have any updates.

BALDWIN: We have been talking a bit with a couple of voices here about the recent violent, these so-called machete murders in the last year or two there in Bangladesh.

Initially, these secular bloggers were targeted in broad daylight with men with these machetes. And then you had Muslims and you had members of the LGBT community being targeted. And I understand there's just really been this fear that has been permeating this part of the world. Can you speak to that at all?

HUSSAIN: I think we are seeing a rise in radicalism in this country and it's really scary that these attacks have just been so consistent. It's clearly an organized type of crime. They're not just isolated attacks.

And, you know, it's been mostly against individuals, and today it's not against an individual. It's an attack against a group of people and that's especially scary, because it's just -- it's so close to home and no one really expects to see something like that take place.

BALDWIN: Shama Hussain, let's stay in contact with you and especially your cousin's four friends inside of this restaurant, four of the 20 to 30 hostages here being taken by gunmen right around 1:00 in the morning now in Dhaka, Bangladesh.

Thank you so much for hopping on the phone. I really, really appreciate that.

And we're going to take a quick break, continue with live breaking news on this hostage siege in Dhaka.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:17:50]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN, breaking news here. I'm Brooke Baldwin in Istanbul, Turkey.

But we're turning our attention to Dhaka, Bangladesh. For at least the last hour, a hostage crisis has been under way within this bakery restaurant here in Dhaka, an area of this country just east on India, where have a lot of, in the season, cafes and restaurants, diplomats, expats, 20 to 30 people as hostages now, these gunmen with grenades.

According to my last guest, an American who lives nearby said the last time she heard gunshots was about an hour ago, and since then it has been silent.

One death. One police officer has been killed.

As we watch this, let's go to Washington and our White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski, who is there.

Michelle, has the president been updated on the situation in Dhaka?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this was happening while we were in the daily briefing today.

The White House press secretary was asked directly about this, but as it was ongoing and of course still is. The White House hasn't yet weighed in on this with any detail. And generally they want to wait a little bit and just get a better sense of what the situation is, as well as the U.S. security situation there, with the embassy being so close.

What the White House is saying at this point is that the president has been briefed on the situation by his assistant for homeland security and counterterrorism. They're basically watching the situation as we are right now.

But this comes only days after the Turkey attack, only days after the after the president, while he was traveling in Canada, talked about the fact that ISIS and other groups are still able to launch attacks like this and the continued commitment of the U.S. and other countries to try to stop it.

But there's a genuine concern there among people around the world, including the White House that is still now watching this closely, that these things keep happening. The White House should weigh in on this soon. We're going to expect to hear from the National Security Council probably within the next hour or two, Brooke. BALDWIN: We will listen in for that. Michelle, thank you so much.

And, again, also hearing from State that all Americans at the American Embassy, they are accounted for.

[15:20:05]

But, Gayle Lemmon, let me bring you in, senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations.

Michelle was talking about ISIS and, yes, as we're sitting here in front of the airport in Istanbul, we have bee talking about ISIS for the last couple of days and this attack here, but we do not know who these gunmen or who they would have pledged their allegiance to, those who are holding these innocent people hostage.

That said, educate us on the presence of these terror cells within Bangladesh.

GAYLE TZEMACH LEMMON, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Right. And this is really fascinating, because what you see tonight is really dueling narratives of Bangladesh.

On the one hand, it's a development darling. They have made huge gains in education, in economic development in recent years and have really been gaining the World Bank and other people's attention. On the other hand, it is now home to a turf war between al Qaeda and ISIS.

ISIS' most recent, April edition of its "Dabiq" magazine talked about Bangladesh and talked about the need to turn the group's attention there. And, in fact, a lot of analysts who were talking about it afterward talked about this push for high-profile attacks against foreigners that would be enough to woo other people to the camp of the ISIS fighters.

BALDWIN: And that's the thing. You say foreigners, a number of foreigners here in this particular restaurant tonight.

This is an area described to me as a posh restaurant. A number of embassies in this part of the country. What do you make though about how, from what I understand, the government has sort of dismissed any notion -- as ISIS or al Qaeda has claimed responsibility for previous violence, the government dismissing that?

LEMMON: Yes.

And a lot of people have been talking about this. Right? The State Department in February 2016 put out a warning that talked about the threat of attacks, high-profile attacks against foreigners. Americans who are in other country are not encouraged -- in fact, I think they're actually blocked from being in very public places like the one where we are watching these horrible scenes unfold tonight.

And yet the leadership of the country I think in part feels that if you acknowledge the threat of international groups such as ISIS and al Qaeda using this as terrain as turf for operations, then you're almost legitimizing it and has been really criticized for really focusing on homegrown terror groups, of which there are several high-profile ones, rather than being serious about the ISIS and al Qaeda threat.

BALDWIN: Let me just hit pause on this conversation and just tell everyone as we're covering this ongoing siege, we now have a second police officer who has been killed, so two dead thus far as we're watching this. Just awful news to have to report on what's happening in Dhaka.

As far as the fact that the government has been dismissive, you're saying they don't want to acknowledge the presence of terrorism. What are the people in Bangladesh? How worried have they been? Because when you look at these previous, you know, murders with machetes, from what I understand, targeting initially those secular bloggers, people who have been outspoken about Islam.

LEMMON: Right.

I mean, this has been a slow escalation of high-profile horror. It's just that the world has had so many other places to look, Syria, Iraq, Turkey, Orlando, right, that very few people have been paying attention outside Bangladesh's borders to the horror that is escalating inside. And so I think people on the ground, as your wonderful guest earlier has been talking about, have been watching with fear as this is growing and the brazenness of the attacks has been growing, including American bloggers, right, who are Bangladeshi- American duel citizens that you all covered beautifully on CNN.

And these attacks have gone largely unnoticed outside Bangladesh until today, and a lot of people have been watching ISIS. Again, I know we do not know who did this, but really paid attention to that magazine issue, really turning its attention to Bangladesh.

BALDWIN: What is happening in the world?

Gayle, thank you so much, senior fellow Council on Foreign Relations. I appreciate your joining me here today.

We're going to take a quick break. More on the breaking news here out of Dhaka, Bangladesh, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:47]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BALDWIN: Just about the bottom of the hour here. I'm Brooke Baldwin live tonight in Istanbul, Turkey.

We have been talking about the triple suicide bombing here at this airport. As we have been talking terrorism, want to turn our attention to what is happening right now in Dhaka, Bangladesh.

I want to be crystal-clear. We can't label what's happening here because we simply don't mow who these gunmen are, but about six to eight gunmen have taken over this bakery restaurant in Dhaka in this more affluent, posh area of the city in Bangladesh, from what we understand, a lot of embassies in the neighborhood, including the American Embassy.

And at this point in time, it's just after 1:30 in the morning there, Dhaka time, 20 to 30 people are holed up inside. Last we heard, according to eyewitnesses, gunshots ringing out about an hour ago, and ever since then, silence.

Two police officers now, two police officers have been killed as we have been watching these pictures play out of SWAT teams surrounding this restaurant. Got some guidance some members of law enforcement were trying to communicate, trying to negotiate with these gunmen inside. No word on how successful that has been.

Let's go to Ivan Watson, our senior international correspondent, who has been covering some of the violence in recent years in Bangladesh.

But, before we get to that, Ivan, tell me, do we know --