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Clinton Met With FBI For Three-and-a-Half Hours Over Emails; Sources: Expectation of No Charges Against Clinton; Renowned Holocaust Survivor Elie Wiesel Dead at 87; FBI Interviews Clinton on E-mail Scandal; Trump: Hillary Clinton Should be in Jail; Bob Graham Talks Clinton, Loretta Lynch/Bill Clinton Meeting, E-mail Scandal; Legal Perspective on Clinton E-mails, Loretta Lynch/Bill Clinton Meeting. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired July 02, 2016 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:00:25] BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM, I'm Brianna Keilar in Washington in for Poppy Harlow. We have breaking news. The FBI grilling Hillary Clinton today for three- and-a-half hours about her e-mails. Questioning took place at FBI headquarters in Washington. The interview is part of a lengthy investigation into Clinton's use of a private e-mail server when she was secretary of state.

Today's meeting indicates that investigators are actually close to wrapping up this probe and announcing the results of it. For Clinton, timing now becomes crucial because we are 23 days away from the start of the Democratic convention in Philadelphia where she is expected to accept her party's nomination for president. The next few weeks are very significant as Clinton waits for the FBI to announce its findings.

Her campaign says, Secretary Clinton gave a voluntary interview this morning about her e-mail arrangements while she was secretary. She is pleased to have had the opportunity to assist the Department of Justice in bringing this review to a conclusion. Out of respect for the investigative process she will not comment further on her interview.

Now, joining me, we have investigative correspondent Chris Frates. Are you hearing any new reaction?

CHRIS FRATES, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: We have got lots of new reaction, Brianna. You and I were talking about how we had not yet heard from Donald Trump today. While Trump has spoken and he has taken to Twitter like he usually does. And if we can put this tweet up on the screen for our viewers, Trump said, "It is impossible for the FBI not to recommend criminal charges against Hillary Clinton. What she did was wrong. What bill did was stupid."

Now of course Donald Trump hitting Bill Clinton for the meeting he had earlier this week with Loretta Lynch out in Phoenix. Both of their planes were on the tarmac at Phoenix International Airport and Bill Clinton popped over in an impromptu meeting to say hello to Loretta Lynch. By all accounts it was a social call but it was one that drew a lot of scrutiny because of course Loretta Lynch is in charge into this e-mail investigation into Hillary Clinton's private e-mail server.

And we just heard from an aide to Bill Clinton. So, Bill Clinton's camp weighing in on this meeting. And I want to show that to our viewers. Bill Clinton's camp saying, "The President's conversation with the Attorney General was unplanned and was entirely social in nature. But recognizing how others could take another view of it, he agrees with the Attorney General that he would not do it again." Of course Loretta Lynch saying just yesterday that she would not have him come over and make that social call where they talked about their grandkids.

And you know, it's important to kind of take a step back, too. We have a lot of reaction here, Brianna. But also, what does this interview mean? It means that this process which started almost a year ago is drawing to an end. In fact, sources telling CNN that we expect in the next few weeks that the Justice Department will not come out with charges against Hillary Clinton. And that is if there was no new information that changes the game during that interview today. Of course she spent three and a half hours talking to the FBI along with her lawyer, David Candle today.

But we are just learning that sources telling us that unless there is a game changer in that interview, Brianna, the likelihood is that in the next few weeks, we will have an announcement from the Justice Department that there won't be any charges filed on this. That will be really welcome news to Hillary Clinton and to Democrats. Because remember, we are just three weeks away from that Democratic convention. They want to pack this thing up and ship it out of town and stop getting hit over it. Because Republicans have been using it for a better part of the year to really hit Hillary Clinton in a place where she hurts most which is with trustworthiness with voters.

She polls very low that way. Republicans have taken advantage of it. And this FBI investigating into whether or not she had improper classified information on her private server really doesn't help her there. So, they are hoping that this will all be closed down, this investigation will end and that the result will be no charges filed against Hillary Clinton before the Democratic National Convention in just about three weeks -- Brianna.

KEILAR: So close. Just upon us. Now, Chris Frates at FBI Headquarters. Thank you so much.

And I want to talk more about this breaking news now with someone who knows a thing or two about White House scandals, journalist and CNN political commentator Carl Bernstein. He won a Pulitzer Prize, I'm sure you know for his coverage of Watergate. He is also the author of " A Woman in Charge: The Life of Hillary Rodham Clinton." And he is joining me now to talk about this.

Okay. So, this is pretty interesting call because this is the information that is just into CNN, and this is pretty nuanced. But what our Evan Perez is reporting is that we are expecting within the next two weeks or so the expectation is there will be an announcement of no charges being brought against Hillary Clinton so long as no evidence of wrongdoing emerges from the interview she did today with the FBI. This is what sources are telling us. So there is a considerable amount hanging on this interview today.

[17:05:26] CARL BERNSTEIN, JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR: Of course there is a lot. And we need to separate a number of strands here. First of all, if indeed there are going to be no charges that would be very big news. But there are a number of things going on that we have to look at. The first is the Loretta Lynch question. She needs to recuse herself from the rest of this investigation formally, totally. Because it's impossible to have confidence, including it's in Hillary Clinton's interest for Lynch to get out of this, to allow the professionals, the deputy attorney general in charge of the criminal division, to be in charge of this investigation because it's more than just a question of formal charges, guilt or innocence.

There's also the question of whether or not the investigation's findings and parts of what was found in terms of information is going to be released. In New York, the U.S. attorney in the case involving Governor Cuomo and the commission that he had appointed, there were no indictments that resulted and it was decided by the U.S. Attorney that he would make a statement saying, there was no intent found of violating the law, et cetera. So there are nuances in this. This is not just about indictment, no indictment. And the idea that this is going to go away because there is no indictment politically is ridiculous. At the same time, it would be a great thing for Hillary Clinton if there was no indictment. I've never expected an indictment.

KEILAR: Let me ask you about this because if Loretta Lynch is to recuse herself, the biggest issue then would be who takes the recommendations of --

BERNSTEIN: Right.

KEILAR: -- of the findings right? So there is that one thing. You have Republicans who were saying there needs to be someone independent doing it.

BERNSTEIN: Well, a special prosecutor is a bad idea at this point.

(CROSSTALK)

BERNSTEIN: It's out of the question.

KEILAR: The Clinton experience with independent prosecutors or something at that point that's ultimately --

BERNSTEIN: Briana, it's too laid for that. And there is not going to be one --

KEILAR: OK. So, what does it look like? What does it look like if she recuses herself?

BERNSTEIN: If she recuses herself there is an assistant Attorney General in charge of the criminal division who would give credibility to this investigation beyond any doubt because there are decisions to be made in how this information is going to be presented. Whatever the FBI's findings are, whatever the prosecutor findings are, how it's going to be presented, when it's going to be presented, the manner in which information will be released.

All of these are very sensitive questions that she should have nothing to do with after this. And as I say, it's in Hillary Clinton's interest that this investigation from here on in be as sacrosanct as it can be. And that would be one way of doing it. And I can't imagine why Democrats and Republicans don't demand that Lynch get out of this investigation all together for everyone's sake.

KEILAR: Carl, you have said that if she loses the presidency, it will be because of one reason, her recklessness. What do you mean?

All right unfortunately our signal with Carl Bernstein having issues there. Thank you so much to him for being with us.

Sources are telling CNN that the FBI is expected to announce its decision before the conventions. And I'm joined now by CNN political commentator and host of "The Ben Ferguson Show," Ben Ferguson, that make sense, doesn't it? As well as Boris Epshteyn, he's a Republican strategist and a Trump surrogate. First, I want to get your reaction to the breaking news, Boris if you will. We do not expect charges unless the FBI learned something new today.

BORIS EPSHTEYN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, it's impossible to speculate on what will happen because there was a three and a half hour interview today. Let's go back to the fact that the presumptive nominee for the Democratic nomination had a three and a half hour interview with the FBI. They are spinning it as a voluntary interview but no, it is an investigation. Three and a half investigative interview with the FBI and we are talking about whether she is going to get indicted or not.

Hillary Clinton should think better and step aside right now and let someone else lead her party. The American people do not want somebody who is under such a cloud -- I'm sure he have told you about her recklessness under such a cloud leading them. The American people know much better than that. Hillary Clinton has shown throughout her career, throughout all the scandals that the Clintons have been involved with, from the Rose Law firm, from the Cattle Futures, from the Clinton Foundation, to Benghazi, to the emails scandal. No regard for the rules of law or other rules and regulations that she is involved with. The inspector general of the State Department has already said as such. She needs to step aside. Hillary Clinton does.

[17:10:17] KEILAR: Boris, isn't Donald Trump sort of undercutting that assertion when he is considering -- and a top person on his VP list is Chris Christie, someone who is currently under investigation?

EPSHTEYN: Chris Christie has already been found to have done no wrongdoing. And you are talking about the bridge issues. He has been found to have done no wrongdoing to have broken no laws, rules or regulations in terms of that bridge closing. And let's talk about the sizes of the wrongdoings as well. The bridge issue has been investigated and put to the side. Hillary Clinton put American lives at risk by exposing secret and classified information through the use of a personal server. So, this is a completely different issue, a much larger issue. She's totally unfit to be president.

KEILAR: OK. Ben, what do you think?

BEN FERGUSON, HOST, "THE BEN FERGUSON SHOW": Well, I think there is a couple of things here. One, Hillary Clinton, if she is not indicted, the big problem is still going to be the issue of trust. I mean the idea that Bill Clinton is going on to a plane to see a woman that he actually appointed to a job in the past, which has helped her career get to where it is today with Loretta Lynch and to assume that no conversation took place about his wife being investigated is incredibly naive that the American people would believe that and just a stupid plan for them to roll it out that way.

When you are running for president -- and Bill Clinton ran for president twice. He knows this. Everything is about the presidency right now. Your entire life is about the presidency. Every move you make is about the media attention of your wife, of you, and what you are doing, what you are advocating for. For him to somehow imply that randomly he is going to get off a plane, go meet with her, and it be nothing about a possible indictment in an interview with the FBI coming within days brings a much bigger shadow here to the question, and I think the issue of trust.

Remember, Hillary Clinton had a huge problem when it came to Democratic voters trusting her compared to Bernie Sanders. It's one of the reasons why Bernie Sanders was able to last so long, because Democrats, not Republicans -- Democrats had a hard time saying that they understood and trust her. Even she had to admit it a week ago that she had an issue with thrust that she was going to have to work on. When you see Bill Clinton get on a plane and influence this case in this way -- and people say, well, it was just a personal meeting or just good friends catching up. No, it's not.

You are running for president. Your wife is running for president. Everything is about the White House at this point. He knew better. And obviously, he thought it was worth the risk mainly because he figured no one would find out. And now they have, and this is a huge issue with trust moving forward regardless if she is indicted or not.

KEILAR: Ben Ferguson, Boris Epshteyn, thanks so much to both of you. We really appreciate.

EPSHTEYN: I totally agree with my friend Ben there.

KEILAR: Totally appreciate --

FERGUSON: Thanks.

KEILAR: And you are in concurrence, so there you go. Thank you, guys.

Well, an FBI grilling putting the Dems in a major dilemma in leading many to ask, you know, what does this mean for Hillary Clinton? We'll discuss.

Donald Trump expected to meet with a big name rumored to be on his VP short list. We'll tell you who it is coming up. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:15:54] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

KEILAR: We have breaking news here on CNN. Confirmation just a short time ago that renowned holocaust survivor and Nobel Peace Laureate Elie Wiesel has died. In 1944, Wiesel's family was ripped out of Romania and sent to Auschwitz concentration camp system in Poland. His experiences there were chronicled in his memoir night. And he received the Nobel Peace Prize in 1986. Elie Wiesel was 87.

And CNN's Richard Roth looks back on his extraordinary life.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR UN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He would become the most famous survivor of the holocaust, but at the age of 15, Elie Wiesel had no fears when his family was rounded up and hungry by the Nazis.

ELIE WIESEL, NOBEL PEACE LAUREATE: To the last minute I wasn't worried. We had no idea that Auschwitz existed.

ROTH: That changed when he was transported by cattle car with hundreds of others.

WIESEL: I knew something was terrible. It was something terrifying that was in store for us.

ROTH: Arrival at Auschwitz, the extermination camp, an older inmate advises them, tell the Germans you're 18 years old. A candidate for work. It would save his life, or what would pass as life in the death camps. Trapped in a nightmare, Wiesel sustained himself by keeping his father alive. Father and son were later taken to Buchenwald camp. Wiesel's father Shlomo just weeks before the U.S. army arrived.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All along the united advance the gates swing open from German concentration camps.

ROTH: This picture was taken after liberation. Wiesel is in the second level of the bunk next to the beam. He would later say he didn't recognize himself. Wiesel lamented there was no grave of his father to visit when he toured Buchenwald in 2009 with German Chancellor Merkel and President Obama.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What can I tell him? That the world has learned? I am not so sure.

ROTH: Wiesel started asking questions after the war, becoming a journalist. It took years before he talked about the horrors he experienced. In his book called "Night" an eventual bestseller. In 1985 as he received the Congressional gold medal he implored President Reagan unsuccessfully not to visit a German cemetery filled with members of the SS. He won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1986. The humanitarian world leaders speak out against other atrocities. On Saddam Hussein.

WIESEL: It is not a method of war. It is a method of intervention.

ROTH: Dar for Sudan.

WIESEL: It is a scandal that we didn't stop the bloodshed.

ROTH: And on the Iranian President Ahmadinejad.

WIESEL: I will tell you frankly, this man is a disgrace.

ROTH: He was named a messenger of peace by United Nations. The organization founded as a result of World War II. He would ask the U.N. Security Council.

WIESEL: Why am I involved in tragic event that occur to people I have never met on the other side of oceans and continents? It is because I belong to a traumatized generation haunted by the world's indifference.

ROTH: The Elie Wiesel Foundation was set up to fight indifference and intolerance. In 2008, Wiesel and his foundation learned they were among the victims of financial schemer Bernard Madoff. Wiesel always said he was a writer and a teacher. He said he never spoke for all the holocaust victims but serves to remind nations to not let it happen again.

WIESEL: As a teacher, I always believe in questions. The question is, will the world ever learn? Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: And here is part of a statement from Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. He said the state of Israel and the Jewish people deeply mourn the death of Elie Wiesel. Elie a master of words gave expression through his exceptional personality and fascinating books about the victory of the human spirit over cruelty and evil.

[17:20:10] And on the phone with me now is Deborah Lipstadt, she is the professor of Modern Jewish History and Holocaust Studies at Emory University. Professor Lipstadt. And first I'd like to express our condolences certainly to you and your entire university as we know that you are suffering two losses today, including that of a student in Bangladesh. So, I want to say that to you as well. But as we talk about the life of Elie Wiesel, so long and so full.

This -- he is someone who really spoke almost beyond just the experience of holocaust survival but to really all of human suffering. Professor, can you hear me? All right. I think we are having a problem establishing our connection with

Deborah. Deborah, can you hear me? All right. We are going to try to re-establish that connection with a professor from Emory University, who can shed a lot of light on this legacy of Elie Wiesel on this day that he has passed away at 87 years old. We'll be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:24:09] KEILAR: On the phone with me now we have re-established our correction with Deborah Lipstadt, she is a professor of modern Jewish history and holocaust studies at Emory University. Professor Lipstadt, tell us a little bit about Elie Wiesel and also how his legacy is really this idea that even though he went through something so terrible, he came out of it fighting for such good and showing sort of that there is this resiliency of the human spirit and even in the face of something so evil, you can have positivity.

DEBORAH LIPSTADT, INSTITUTE OF JEWISH STUDIES, EMORY UNIVERSITY (on the phone): He was a very -- he was a unique man. Today, you know, we think that everybody knows about the holocaust and everybody is familiar with the holocaust. But when Elie Wiesel first began to speak about it in the '60s, he would go from campus to campus, community center and give talks and there would be a handful of people there. He was a very gifted lecturer, but crowds grew and his name grew and his reputation grew.

But one of the things that remained with him throughout his years and as you put it so properly, his legacy, was that he couldn't abide evil, whether it was in Bangladesh, whether it was in the former Yugoslavia, and Bosnia, whether it was -- wherever it was, if there was something off of Cambodia, he would go -- he would try to be a voice for justice, a voice for peace. And I would say that in the last 20, 25 years, he became an international voice for peace. Then for justice. He was one of those people who when he spoke the world listened. And it's just terrible, terrible loss.

KEILAR: Yes. And he spoke and the world listened. But you also had a closer relationship --

LIPSTADT: I had a personal -- he was a friend.

KEILAR: Yes. That's right. You met him on several occasions you considered him a friend and a mentor.

LIPSTADT: We were on many, many, many times together. In 1997, when during the inauguration -- the second inauguration of Bill Clinton, the holocaust museum did a special day of study and interviews, and I had a chance to interview him. I did it many times. He was a supporter. When I was sued for libel and on trial in England, he was a tremendous supporter of mine both publicly and privately. And he was a man I looked to and I listened to.

I didn't always agree with what he said, but I always learned from him. And I had tremendous respect. He really epitomized to my mind the verse from the Hebrew scriptures, the book of Leviticus, the Leviticus Chapter 19 when it says, when your brother's blood is spilled, thou shall not stand idly by. He never stood idly by, and it didn't matter whose blood was being spilled. He spoke out. And he became a voice, a moral voice, with a ringing echo throughout the world. And it is a big loss.

KEILAR: Yes, he certainly did. And as someone who spoke out against hate, I also want to give you our condolences to the Emory University Community. We know that you've lost two students who were killed in Bangladesh. And we know that --

LIPSTADT: Yes. It's ironic here you have another act of pure evil and pure hate hitting innocent people. And it's something that Elie Wiesel would have been very disturbed by, as he was disturbed by so many things like this, though.

KEILAR: Yes.

LIPSTADT: I feel very, very lucky to have called him a friend.

KEILAR: Yes. You are very lucky. Professor Lipstadt, thank you so much.

LIPSTADT: You are welcome.

KEILAR: We'll be right back.

LIPSTADT: Thank you. Thank you. Bye-bye.

KEILAR: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:31:10] BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: We are back with breaking news on the Clinton e-mail scandal. The FBI questioned Hillary Clinton for three and a half hours today about her e-mail usage when she was secretary of state. The Clinton interview may actually suggest that the FBI is close to wrapping up the e-mail probe. Multiple law enforcement sources tell CNN that unless Clinton's interview today reveals new information that could be incriminating, we should expect an announcement in the next few weeks of no charges against Clinton.

So let's go back in time now, just a few months. Remember when Clinton's rival, Senator Bernie Sanders, said Americans were tired of hearing about the topic? Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: But tonight I want to talk not about my e-mails but about what the American people want from the next president of the United States.

(CROSSTALK)

(CHEERING) SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I), VERMONT & DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Senator, let me say this -- let me say -- let me say something that may not be great politics. But I think the secretary is right.

(APPLAUSE)

SANDERS: And that is that the American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails.

(CHEERING)

CLINTON: Thank you, me, too. Me, too.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Let's talk about this with our panel. Ben Ferguson joining me again. We have political commentator, Marc Lamont Hill, and presidential historian and Princeton professor, Julian Zelizer.

So, Marc, what do you make of this? How much of an issue to Hillary Clinton is this, especially as a lot of voters say she didn't do the right thing and this affects whether or not they trust her?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Certainly when you begin to have FBI probes, it does nothing to enhance voter confidence. Whether she did anything or not isn't the point. It is a conversation about on optics. Whether Huma Abedin or her aide, Polandski (ph), I believe, who was investigated a few weeks ago, whenever this comes back up, it raises the same question again. This obviously is better timing than, say, right before the convention or right before the November election, but it's still bad in the minds of voters, particularly at a moment where other thing are happening, where the Lynch thing is happening, where people are questioning the judgment of Bill Clinton, when other things are happening regarding her past record. This is just another thing that will shake voters.

KEILAR: Carl (ph), do you think -- some people have suggested that even though Bernie Sanders is signaling that he gets it he's not going to get the nomination, he is not out. You know, he is not -- he is still sending out e-mails to his supporters, taking this all the way to the convention. Some people say that's because he is hanging in there in case something legally happens to Hillary Clinton. Do you think that there is something to that, and that he's waiting perhaps to really get behind her until this is wrapped up?

Ben, what do you think?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. I mean, I think Bernie Sanders has been very smart on this issue. And that is that he understands that there is a major political liability. And how could you move forward at a convention with somebody if, in fact, they are under FBI indictment here by the Justice Department? This would be unprecedented in politics. I cannot imagine how you would be able to survive this. But you also have the other issue that has been around Hillary

Clinton. The people she has around her that are the closest to her, they have been under this investigation as well, including the people that set up these servers. So this is really a bigger problem of trust. And, look, this election is going to be won or lost by three to four percentage points. This may not be an issue for most Democratic voters. It certainly isn't going to be an issue for most of the people that support her. But when you are trying to get the middle ground, and trying to win the swing states by one or two or three percentage points, these things do matter to those voters, wondering, can I really trust Hillary Clinton. And she had a trust problem issue before this e-mail scandal started. It was an issue that now she is not going to be able to put to bed through November.

LAMONT HILL: I think it --

(CROSSTALK)

KEILAR: Yeah. Go on.

[17:35:09] LAMONT HILL: No, I was going to say, I think important to remind the viewers this is part of the routine investigation. That nothing new has happened. Hillary Clinton hasn't broken a rule. She hasn't been subject to some new level of scrutiny. This is part of the investigation --

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: She broke a rule.

LAMONT HILL: No, no. What I'm saying --

(CROSSTALK)

JULIAN ZELIZER, PROFESSOR OF HISTORY & PUBLIC AFFAIRS, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: The good news is her opponent. And so we have to remember, even with the problems of trust that exist, it's true, nothing new happened today. So the story remains the same, other than the investigation is probably reaching a conclusion.

But we can't treat Hillary Clinton in isolation when dealing with questions of trust. This has clearly hurt her. This is clearly part of the problem she has struggled with. But her opponent, Donald Trump, is not in better shape. And he has everything from Trump University and the questions about that, to other issues that have emerged. So I think that context can help her recover as long as this FBI investigation doesn't produce some kind of bombshell conclusion, which, right now, the rumors are saying it won't.

KEILAR: Yeah. It doesn't look like it.

Julian, I also wonder what you think about this. I have to do a fact check. There was a Trump supporter on here, Boris Epstein, who said that Chris Christie is not under investigation. Actually, he is. My point to saying that is that there are a lot of people who say if Hillary Clinton is looking at a running mate, she is arguing that Donald Trump is dangerous, she has to pick someone who is safe. Right? She can't undercut her argument. If Donald Trump is trying to say Hillary Clinton is not trustworthy, how would he pick someone like Chris Christie, who has his own thing hanging over him? What do you think, Julian?

ZELIZER: Well, I think that's also a problem. We have to remember, Newt Gingrich, who has been enmeshed, involved in big ethics scandal as well. He ultimately resigned from his position. So I do think the Trump campaign needs to think about who they surround themselves with if they want to make ethics and kind of the purity of the campaign a central issue because this will come up. And this is part of the baggage that comes with a vice presidential pick.

KEILAR: Ben --

FERGUSON: Briana, I also think this is one thing that's going to be interesting when you have the debates. This is fitting the narrative. Donald Trump has been fit the narrative of I am an outsider, you shouldn't trust Washington, people are tired of Washington. On stage with Hillary Clinton, I guarantee you, one of the talking points will be, look at the corruption, look at her husband, look at him getting on the plane while she's under investigation. We don't know what would have happened if he wouldn't have had that conversation with Loretta Lynch. This is what people are tired of in Washington. That's the narrative that Donald Trump started months ago, I am an outsider going into Washington, and if you are tired of the same-old, same-old in Washington, then you want to get rid of Hillary Clinton, who is standing on the stage with me. That may be where this hurts her the most.

KEILAR: Marc, should Loretta Lynch say, you know what, I'm going to let my assistant deal with this.

LAMONT HILL: Yeah.

KEILAR: Because even she it cast a shadow over this. Really, how much difference does it make whether she does it or her assistant does, other than she is fixing the on optics problems?

LAMONT HILL: It depends what you mean by should. If you mean should at the level of on optics or should at the level of practical politics, absolutely, she should step aside. I don't think she did anything improper. I don't think she and Bill Clinton were cooking up some backdoor deal on the tarmac.

KEILAR: That may not even matter at this point. No one was there. No one can attest to what they talked about. So --

LAMONT HILL: That's right. That's what I'm saying. As a practical matter, despite the fact that I believe Loretta Lynch, and for one, I believe Bill Clinton, and that's not a very common thing for me, I still think it looks bad and gives the appearance of impropriety, and it serves no purpose. I think the American people deserve her to step aside.

KEILAR: For once, you said you believe Bill Clinton. We caught that, Marc Lamont Hill.

All right, thank you so much.

(LAUGHTER)

Ben Ferguson, thank you.

FERGUSON: Thanks.

KEILAR: Julian Zelizer, wonderful to have you as well.

Coming up in the CNN NEWSROOM, former U.S. Senator and major Hillary Clinton backer, Bob Graham, weighs in on her meeting with FBI investigators today. He is joining us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:42:20] DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: I think Hillary is very weak. She is pathetic. I think she should be in jail for what she did with her e-mails. OK?

(CHEERING)

TRUMP: She should be in jail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Welcome back. Donald Trump doesn't mince words about what he thinks should happen to Hillary Clinton over her personal e-mail server she used while secretary of state.

We are continuing our breaking news coverage of Hillary Clinton's three and a half hour long meeting with FBI investigators today.

Former U.S. Senator and Florida governor, Bob Graham, is a Clinton backer. He is joining us by phone from Martha's Vineyard.

Sir, tell us, are you concerned about this coming just weeks before the Democratic convention?

BOB GRAHAM, (D), FORMER SENATOR & FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR (voice- over): I think it's good to get it behind Mrs. Clinton as early as possible. As one who was chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, served 10 years there, and then were in other positions that gave me access to classified information, I would be very surprised if there was any serious material on Mrs. Clinton's e-mail. People just understand you do not use e-mail for information, classified or otherwise, that you would not like to have appear in the next day's newspaper. Mrs. Clinton is wise enough to understand that. I doubt that there is going to be bombshells in terms of what went through her e-mail.

KEILAR: What are your thoughts on this meeting earlier this week between Bill Clinton and Loretta Lynch? It sounds like all around there are regrets on this. But this is certainly unfortunate for Hillary Clinton. GRAHAM: I would agree with that. It was -- it just added another

unnecessary issue to this e-mail controversy. President Clinton is an extremely garrulous person. I can envision how he would have done this without thinking through some of the possible implications. I think now it's going to be up to the Justice Department to show the clarity and strength of its investigation and its final report that this incident did not influence their final determination.

KEILAR: Should the attorney general just recuse herself, let her assistant take over and just try to dispense with the cloud over this?

GRAHAM: I think that was a wise step by the attorney general to try to distance herself from any engagement with this decision and let the professionals in the Department of Justice, who are not political -- they are not appointed by a Democratic or a Republican president. They are lifers in the department, and experts in conducting these kinds of investigations. Let them do their work without any intermediaries involved.

[17:45:33] KEILAR: Recusing herself you don't think is necessary?

GRAHAM: No, I think it is.

KEILAR: OK.

GRAHAM: I think what she announced that she is going do, which is to not be involved in the decision, is the right decision and will help to overcome the question about the propriety of the meeting that was held at the Phoenix airport.

KEILAR: OK. Senator Graham, thank you so much for speaking with us. We appreciate it.

GRAHAM: Thank you very much, Brianna.

KEILAR: Coming up, more on the breaking news story that we have been covering this hour. CNN legal analyst, Paul Callan, joining us live for his take on Hillary Clinton's meetings with FBI investigators today. Is this the beginning of the end for the e-mail server investigation? Paul will give us his take, next.

You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Finally this hour, meet this week's "CNN Hero." She is a Jordanian immigrant who uses soccer to help kids from war-torn countries feel more at home here in the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED CNN HERO: There are so many things stacked against them. For you to be successful, you are competing against all these other people that are already like 10 steps ahead of you. So how are you going to catch up? How are you going to stand out? And how are you going to contribute successfully? We are getting people from all over the world, from all different faiths to come together to do something great. (SHOUTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:50:05] KEILAR: Welcome back. We're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

We continue our breaking news coverage of the three and a half hour- long meeting that Hillary Clinton had with FBI investigators today.

CNN legal analyst, Paul Callan, joins me via Skype to discuss this investigation and what we can infer from all of this.

Paul, I have a number of questions, but I'm hoping you can give us -- we don't know what happened. Oh, to be a fly on the wall. Take us through this a little bit. Obviously, Hillary Clinton would have had a lawyer there for this three and a half hour discussion. You're surprised that it was so short. But how would this have played out?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. The way it works basically, it's kind of a nerve-wracking situation. I've been in a number of these. Even if you're just a witness and not a suspect in an investigation, and of course, Hillary Clinton has always said she's not been the target here, she's just another witness, however, you're sitting there with your lawyer, they don't tell you generally what they're going to ask you about, the specifics of it. Your lawyer has already told you, there's only one way to get into a serious problem, that is, if you tell a lie to the FBI or to any of the other federal officials questioning you. Lawyers worry about that, that a client will try to make things look better for themselves. Sometimes there's no proof of the underlying crime and they lie in the session and they wind up with a perjury charge. There are a lot of things going through everybody's mind, the lawyers and the people being questioned. It's a nerve-wracking experience even for the former secretary of state.

KEILAR: Can we talk about the timing of this? I said earlier, we've all heard of the Friday news dump. We're used told that, in news. You're almost ready for your weekend and then somebody puts something out there that doesn't look good for them toward the end of the day to bury it, because most viewers and consumers of news are already off on their weekend and it's a way to minimize it. The Saturday morning interview about your e-mail server on Fourth of July weekend, also is a way I think to maybe diminish this a little bit. But is that sort of reading too much into this? What do you think?

CALLAN: No, I think -- you know, I think the Hillary forces must have had a hand in planning the scheduling of this, because my own kids are sitting on the front porch in my house here at the beach. They're not watching this interview on television. And it's their father being interviewed by Brianna Keilar. Anyway, so it's a time that not a lot of people are watching television. Frankly, I'm surprised the FBI went along with it. The FBI has been trying to schedule this a long time. The second thing I though was very interesting, Brianna, was with this

tarmac conversation with the attorney general, with Attorney General Loretta Lynch meeting Bill Clinton on the Arizona airport tarmac in what even she conceded was an utterly inappropriate meeting, at least for appearance's sake. She then comes out and says, I'm going to accept whatever recommendations are made by the FBI and Justice Department unit. That kind of is a green light that maybe the FBI and everybody on those units just sort of breathed a sigh of relief and said, let's get it done because whatever we recommend, she's now committed to going forward with. So I think the stars aligned here. There was going to be no publicity or minimal publicity for Hillary Clinton. The FBI wanted to get it over. And it's the Fourth of July weekend, so let's go with the questioning. I think that's how it went down -- Brianna?

KEILAR: Should Loretta Lynch recuse herself?

CALLAN: She absolutely should recuse herself, because Bill Clinton appointed her as U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of New York, which covers Brooklyn and Long Island, back in 1999. That position put her in the right place to be appointed years later by President Obama as attorney general of the United States. So there's obviously a personal and professional relationship between her and the Clintons. And it's really totally inappropriate for her to have any involvement in this investigation. She's kept herself in, saying, well, they'll have to come and brief me about their findings but I'm going to accept their findings. Well, picture yourself, you know, briefing the boss about something that you know the boss doesn't agree with. It's an uncomfortable situation.

KEILAR: Yeah.

CALLAN: She really should get off it and assign it to somebody else in the Justice Department.

KEILAR: Paul Callan, thank you very much. Get back to the beach, sir. Thank you for joining us.

(LAUGHTER)

CALLAN: Thank you.

[17:54:53] KEILAR: And we have much more on today's breaking news, this meeting between the FBI and Hillary Clinton and the political fallout across the political spectrum. All of that coming up.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Well, it was a bit of a handshake that led to some shaking their heads. A three-way handshake, a trio of world leaders who couldn't figure out which hand to put where.

CNN's Jeanne Moos gives a hand to some of the worst handshakes ever.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's hard enough to decide who goes first. You. No, you. No, you.

And you've got to figure out how to fill up a photo op.

But that's child's play compared to pulling off a three-way shake.

(CROSSTALK)

MOOS: It was a hot mess of a handshake that almost begged to be put to music.

(MUSIC)

MOOS: They may call the leaders of the U.S., Canada, and Mexico the three amigos, but their namesakes were far more coordinated.

(SHOUTING)

MOOS (on camera): But instead of the three amigos, some critics compared them to the "Three Stooges."

MOE HOWARD, THREE STOOGES ACTOR: Give me your hand.

MOOS: Slapping a stooges soundtrack to the three amigos

(MUSIC)

CURLY HOWARD, THREE STOOGES ACTOR: Oh, a wise guy!

MOOS: This isn't the first time a three-way shake has failed.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

MOOS: But at least one earth-shaking handshake worked --

(APPLAUSE)

MOOS: -- sealing peace between Israel and Egypt.

Hand raising only raises the stakes. For instance, when Raul Castro tried to lift a limp arm of a resistant President Obama.

Handholding can invite mockery.

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is our state flower.

MOOS: President Bush and the Saudi prince got the late-night treatment.

(SINGING)

MOOS: Touching a world leader tends to be touchy. Remember when an over-excited pizza shop owner --

(LAUGHTER)

MOOS: -- picked up the president? Physical contact can be hit or miss. Ted Cruz was a hit when he elbowed his own wife.

Joe Biden wasn't the only politician to get too close to comfort. Barack Obama accidentally planted one smack on Joe Biden's lips. Of course, they're only amigos. Maybe it's safer for amigos to shake.