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STATE OF THE UNION
Interview With New Jersey Senator Cory Booker; Corey Lewandowski Talks Trump's V.P. Pick; Hillary Clinton Talks to FBI; Interview With Presidential Candidate Gary Johnson; 2016 Veepstakes; The Ups and Downs of Candidates in This Week's "State of the Cartoonion". Aired 9-10a ET
Aired July 3, 2016 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Hillary Clinton talks to the FBI. The e-mail investigation takes center stage after a three-and-a- half-hour interview with authorities. But should the attorney general recuse herself from the case after a meeting with Bill Clinton?
LORETTA LYNCH, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: That team will make findings. They will make recommendations, and I fully expect to accept their recommendations.
KEILAR: And what happens if she is indicted? The e-mail fallout with one of her potential V.P. candidates in minutes.
Plus, two major terror attacks in one week, and the candidates responded.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We are going to get it so that people turn in people when they know there is something going on.
KEILAR: Who has the best plan to keep America safe?
And Donald Trump is hiring.
NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The number one definition of the vice president's job is the president, so who knows.
KEILAR: The names are out. And a weekend meeting leads to speculation about who Trump will pick. Are we close to the big announcement?
Plus, the best political minds will be here with insights from the campaign trail.
KEILAR: Hello. I am Brianna Keilar, in for Jake Tapper, where the state of our union is under investigation. Hillary Clinton kicked off her July Fourth weekend giving a three-and-
a-half interview to the FBI regarding her e-mail practices as secretary of state. The interview is another indicator that the investigation is nearing its end.
Sources tell CNN that Clinton is not expected to be charged with any wrongdoing, pending yesterday's testimony. That announcement is expected to come before the Democratic Convention in three weeks. Clinton was asked about the timing shortly after speaking with the FBI yesterday.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I am not going to comment on the process. I have no knowledge of any timeline. This is entirely up to the department.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
KEILAR: Donald Trump responded to news of the interview in a tweet, saying: "It is impossible for the FBI not to recommend criminal charges against Hillary Clinton. What she did was wrong. What Bill did was stupid" -- Trump also referring there to Bill Clinton's impromptu meeting with Attorney General Loretta Lynch earlier this week.
Should the FBI find new evidence that warrants an indictment before the convention, Democrats could possibly nominate another candidate.
KEILAR: And joining me now is Democratic Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey.
Senator, thank you for spending part of this weekend with us.
And I want to start with the big news about the FBI interview. If an indictment is handed down before the election, if Hillary Clinton were to be formally charged with a crime, should she step aside in favor of Bernie Sanders or even Vice President Biden?
SEN. CORY BOOKER (D), NEW JERSEY: Well, first of all, that's just not going to happen.
I think we have already seen a lot of the evidence and the facts -- facts here. The e-mails have come out. Today's interview is not something to signal that. This is something that she voluntarily did that last summer she really wanted to do. So, I think this is something that's just routine, and we're going to be seeing an investigation closing up.
And I think she, like most Americans, wants this thing to be concluded and so we can move beyond it and focus on the real issues of this campaign.
KEILAR: But, technically, it could happen. And if it did, should she step aside?
BOOKER: Well, technically, you and I could be as well investigated...
KEILAR: Probably more likely if we were being investigated, that we would be indicted. But should she step aside if there is some finding?
BOOKER: Well, again, that's something that to me is not even within the realm of possibility.
KEILAR: OK. I want to ask you about another controversy, this one sparked by former President Clinton. This week, he met privately with Loretta Lynch, who is the official overseeing this investigation of Hillary Clinton's private e-mail server.
Lynch acknowledged that this meeting has cast a shadow over the investigation. Those are her words. She did decline to recuse herself. I wonder, do you think that she needs to recuse herself?
BOOKER: She is a life -- she is a longstanding professional. She came up through the ranks at the Justice Department. I think she is handling this right. She did nothing wrong, no violation.
And she already said publicly that she is going to abide by the determination of the FBI and the prosecutors who are working on this case.
KEILAR: Let's look at this notion that she will simply be accepting the recommendations or abiding by them, as you say, of the FBI and the career prosecutors.
Here is what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LYNCH: And I fully expect to accept their recommendations, and I will be accepting their recommendations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: So, which is it here, that she fully expects to or that she will accept the recommendations?
BOOKER: Well, I think that she is going to accept the recommendations.
And, again, let's understand what this is all about. This is about a conversation that the two of them had that had nothing to do with this case, that had to do with golf and grandchildren.
So, this is nothing that in any way undermines this case. And people who are alleging that -- and I know a lot of it is coming from the Trump campaign -- are trying to whip up conspiracy theories here.
This is a professional prosecutor. She knows what she is doing. And she has said it has the appearance of impropriety, but nothing happened. And a result of that, she is going to except the determination of the prosecutors working on this case.
KEILAR: Muddying the waters a little bit on whether she will simply accept these recommendations, after she suggested she will be taking a step back from the investigation and just accepting this, the Justice Department spokeswoman clarified her remarks.
She told Yahoo News that -- quote -- "The attorney general will be the ultimate decider."
So, how can you maintain that you're just accepting the recommendations and also there is the suggestion that she is the ultimate decider? These seem to be two very different things.
BOOKER: I think we're really parsing things, that there is a distinction, but not much of a difference.
The reality is, this is a professional, lifelong prosecutor who had a conversation with a guy who, frankly, one of the things we love about Bill Clinton, he is probably one of the friendliest people on the planet Earth. They talked about golf and grandchildren, in no way undermined the investigation.
One conversation from a professional prosecutor is going to have no implication on this at all. I am happy she is staying in the saddle. I am happy that she is not recusing herself. But she is making sure that she is going to focus on the recommendations of the professionals that are involved here.
KEILAR: Why is there a revision, though, coming from her department that she is the ultimate decider, instead of backing up her assertion that she is going to accept these recommendations?
BOOKER: Again, at a time where we have had global terror, at a time that we have real issues in communities like the one I'm going home to today, this is the kind of things I think more frustrates voters than it does interest them.
This is a distinction with barely a difference. The reality is this is a prosecutor who America can trust who came up through the ranks and is going to do a good job with this case.
KEILAR: So, back in 2003, when George W. Bush was president and Attorney General John Ashcroft recused himself from the Valerie Plame case, this was because of his longstanding relationship with Bush adviser Karl Rove, and he wanted to avoid even the appearance of a conflict of interests.
Why doesn't the same standard apply here?
BOOKER: You are going a lot far back into history with a case that I'm not truly familiar with. So, I can't make a distinction there. KEILAR: I want to turn now to the globe war on terrorism. Gunmen seized a bakery in the Bangladeshi capital of Dhaka on Friday. They killed 20 hostages, two police officers in this hours-long standoff that ended Saturday morning.
This follows terror attacks in Istanbul and Orlando that killed dozens upon dozens of people. How would Hillary Clinton's response to terrorism be different from that of President Obama?
BOOKER: Well, I think the distinction here, she is not running as President Obama. She is running against Donald Trump.
And we know already what Donald Trump has said he was going to do, which is undermine key alliances like the NATO alliance which helps us to protect not only our country, but really fight against the war on terror. He wants to go against Muslims and create the relationships -- in fact, denigrate relationships with Muslim countries, which include countries like Turkey, which is in meeting with President Erdogan back in January.
And already people, leaders there are worried about Trump and our relationship. And he wants to go back to doing things that are outrageous, from saying, hey, we're going to go after the families of terrorists, we're going to bring batch torture.
Donald Trump is dangerous and would make this world a far more dangerous place. In fact, he would undermine many of the things that are in place right now that would make us a much safer country.
KEILAR: We learned more about Donald Trump's vice presidential search this week. One of the names under consideration is New Jersey Governor Chris Christie. You're very familiar with him. The two of you have worked pretty closely together on the issue of education. Would Chris Christie make a good vice president?
BOOKER: Look, as you know, Chris Christie and I, even though we're in different parties -- and I could write a dissertation on our disagreements -- when I was mayor of the largest city of the state and he was governor, we found ways to work together.
But, frankly, I don't care who you put with Donald Trump. You are not going to find a good partnership to lead this country, especially someone who has consistently demeaned Americans, degraded Americans and deceived Americans in just about his entire campaign.
If I turn on the news in any given week, he is demeaning, and degrading and deceiving another group of Americans, and whether it's Muslim-Americans or whether it's judges, whether it's people like John McCain.
KEILAR: But Chris Christie, you're more obviously comfortable with him?
BOOKER: I am telling you right now, I don't care who Donald Trump picks. This is somebody that's a danger, not only to our country, but his recklessness, his disregard, his demeaning and degrading of other individuals will put this planet in peril.
This is a dangerous man. And I have heard what's come out of his mouth. And it's, frankly, frightening about what could happen if he was the commander in chief of this country and had his finger -- had the codes to the nuclear weapons.
KEILAR: Two weeks ago, you said you were not being vetted to be Hillary Clinton's vice presidential running mate. Is that still the case? Have you, has your staff provided any personal documents to the Clinton campaign?
BOOKER: At this point, I have answered this question and talked about this. I am just referring questions about the vice presidency to the woman that is going to have to make the decision. You should talk to the Hillary Clinton campaign.
But what I do know is that, on the Democratic side, there are many fabulous candidates, people that could really be strong vice presidential candidates.
KEILAR: That is not a no, sir? That is not a no.
BOOKER: That's exactly what it is. It's telling you that, if you have a question like that, please direct it to the Clinton campaign.
KEILAR: I think I may have gotten the answer that I need from that actually.
But I want to ask you about Bill Daley, the former White House chief of staff under President Obama. He had some pretty tough words for Bernie Sanders in a "Washington Post" op-ed.
He wrote: "Since when does the runner-up get to continue to enjoy Secret Service protection at taxpayers' expense?"
I want to ask you about that Secret Service protection. This is something that comes at a huge cost to taxpayers, $38,000 a day. Is this appropriate for Bernie Sanders to continue to receive this?
BOOKER: What's appropriate is, we keep Americans safe. And there are a lot of people on the Hill who at times might have death threats or other security issues that we are not aware of.
I leave it to the professionals. I don't think this should be a chance to pick on Bernie Sanders. I am confident, with the focus that he's been in the public eye, there might be things going on with his security that we are not aware of, so we should leave that alone. Let's just focus on issues that matter.
KEILAR: Senator Booker, thanks so much for being with us. And a happy Fourth to you.
BOOKER: Thank you very much. All the best.
KEILAR: Coming up: If you are a Republican who is not supporting Donald Trump, Sarah Palin has a word for you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH PALIN (R), FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: I just call them Republicans against Trump, or RAT for short.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Unite before the convention? I will ask Trump's former campaign manager next.
KEILAR: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Brianna Keilar, in for Jake Tapper.
The stakes are heating up to be Trump's running mate.
With just 15 days until the start of the Republican National Convention, the presumptive nominee has a short list of candidates currently being vetted. And campaign officials tell us Trump's pick could come as soon as this week, despite earlier promises from Trump to reveal his pick during the convention.
This short list now includes former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, Senators Bob Corker, Jeff Sessions and John Thune, and Governors Chris Christie, Mary Fallin, and Mike Pence. Pence, the popular Indiana governor and former House Republican Conference chair, is favored by Trump's family and high-ranking members of the campaign. He actually met with Trump yesterday in New Jersey.
So, who will Trump pick?
Joining me now is former Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski.
And, Corey, let's start with this search for the V.P.
Yesterday, Donald Trump sits down with Indiana Governor Mike Pence, sits down with his wife, Karen, for more than an hour. And we have CNN's Jamie Gangel reporting that there has been this ongoing push by Trump's kids and other senior members of the campaign, lobbying for this V.P. candidate who would appeal to the GOP establishment.
What do you think Pence's chances are here?
COREY LEWANDOWSKI, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think the vice presidential selection is going to come down to one person's comfort level. And that's going to be Donald Trump. But I do think, when you look at Governor Pence, he is the type of
person that can help unite the party. Obviously, as you mentioned, he has a number of years of Washington, D.C., experience. He was a part of the leadership there. He has gone back now and served as a chief executive of a very important state, a state that Donald Trump is going to need to win in order to be successful in this election.
He has got great relationships with other Republican governors. And he is the type of person that would bring a lot to the ticket. So, as you look at Governor Pence, it's really going to come down to the personal relationship that he and Mr. Trump could have to find out if they can work well together.
And if so, if that's Mr. Trump's choice, I think Governor Pence would be a great choice for vice president.
KEILAR: We learned this week that he's also vetting New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, as well as former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.
But listen to what Gingrich said yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Trump's job is, frankly, to quit screwing up, get the election down to three or four big issues, all of which come down to a simple -- a single concept: Enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Does it help Newt Gingrich or does this hurt his chances by saying that Donald Trump has to quit screwing it up?
LEWANDOWSKI: Well, I think, look, what you have in Newt Gingrich is someone who tells it like it is. And that's never changed.
Again, you have got a person there who has extensive Washington, D.C., experience. He has been known to be able to be bipartisan and work across party lines. You saw what Joe Biden said about Speaker Gingrich yesterday, somebody who can clearly get things done in Washington. He was the last speaker of the House to balance the budget, something that is very important to Mr. Trump.
And as you look at the debt crisis that we currently have, you want an executive who can have a priority of balancing the budget.
KEILAR: But, Corey -- and pardon me for interrupting you -- you say a lot of this has to do with the comfort level of Donald Trump.
And, clearly, someone who is critical of him, that would certainly speak to that. Is that something that Donald Trump is receptive to, or is that something that he would say, hey, if you have an issue, call me up privately and don't be airing this in public?
Does that rub Donald Trump in a way that would make him say, maybe this isn't the guy for me?
LEWANDOWSKI: No, I don't think so.
I think Mr. Trump is very open to getting all the opinions available to him. And, look, what he wants and what he has said he wanted is someone who could help him accomplish his legislative agenda. And it's going to be very important, as the chief executive of our country, to make sure that he's cutting taxes, he's reducing our national debt, he' making sure our military is strong.
And having someone who has those relationships in Washington is going to be a critical component of his administration. Newt Gingrich is one of those people. Chris Christie is one of those people. Governor Pence is one of those people. Jeff Sessions is another option.
All of those people have extensive relationships in Washington, D.C., with members of Congress and the U.S. Senate and could serve Mr. Trump very, very well, should he choose one of them.
KEILAR: He has said that he is planning to announce the running mate at the convention. But then, this week, he began to suggest this could come sooner, maybe as early as this week.
Is that an indication that his campaign feels like it needs a push of momentum, that maybe there has been a halt and he needs a jolt?
LEWANDOWSKI: No, I don't think so at all.
Look, I think, if you look at the poll that was released yesterday from Gravis, it's a two-point race right now. It's 50 to 48. It's clearly within the margin.
You know, the vice presidential selection is not something traditionally that voters are voting for. But what you have is finding the right person with the right temperament to be a good partner with Mr. Trump, so that their legislative agenda can be accomplished.
And, look, the election is fluid right now. Donald Trump is going to do very well in these battleground states. And picking someone like a Mike Pence or Chris Christie that could help in those battleground states is going to be very important to him.
KEILAR: Corey, the big news this weekend, Hillary Clinton meeting with FBI -- with the FBI. Three-and-a-half-hours, she was meeting with them yesterday.
And sources tell CNN that this investigation could wrap up before the conventions. And if she is cleared of wrongdoing by the Justice Department, as we expect, that, short of her basically making sort of mistake in her interview yesterday, is what is going to happen, will that deprive Donald Trump of a key political weapon?
LEWANDOWSKI: No, because I think what you have is the American public is so frustrated right now that Hillary Clinton has been under investigation from the FBI from as many as 150 agents for a long time.
The reason she went in to testify and to talk to them is because she didn't want to be subpoenaed. And the fact that Bill Clinton met with the attorney general last week to supposedly talk about golf and grandchildren is another indication that this is a very serious investigation.
I don't know if Loretta Lynch is going to recuse herself, which she should do. But Director Comey is somebody has the highest integrity. And I think he is going to make the right decision that, clearly, Hillary Clinton has violated the rules of our government and should be prosecuted for this violation. I think that's what the recommendation is going to come down to from the FBI.
KEILAR: There was another controversy yesterday stirred by Donald Trump.
I want you look at this graphic of one of his tweets. I am sure that you have seen this. But this is an image of Hillary Clinton alongside $100 bills, and then a star that is the shape of the Star of David. It bears the words "Most Corrupt Candidate Ever."
Two hours later, Donald Trump deleted that tweet. He tweeted out a new one without that Star of David. And you can see there was a lot of criticism over this, including from conservative blogger Erick Erickson, obviously has had issues with Donald Trump.
He said: "A Star of David, a pile of cash, and suggestions of corruption. Donald Trump again plays to the white supremacists."
This was a big unforced error. Why does this keep happening?
LEWANDOWSKI: Look, Erick Erickson is a person who has his own agenda. He is part of the never-Trump movement. He is upset that he hasn't been part of a winning campaign in a long time.
And, look, a tweet is a simple tweet. And the bottom line is, you can read into things that are not there. This is a simple star, and to make an accusation...
KEILAR: Are you saying that -- wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
KEILAR: Wait, wait, wait. You are saying...
LEWANDOWSKI: Here's what I'm saying. Erick Erickson is part of the never-Trump movement.
KEILAR: You are saying that that's a simple star. A simple star that you would expect, you know, like a star that you would give a child, a sticker, or the star that would be used in things, would have five points, not six.
You're saying that people are reading too much into this? LEWANDOWSKI: It's the same star that sheriff's departments across the country use all over the place to represent law enforcement.
And to read into something that isn't there is -- is -- you know what? I think, again, that's the mainstream media trying to attack Donald Trump for something that really isn't there. So, they put a new tweet up with a circle. The message is the same. Let's look at the message. The message is that Hillary Clinton is corrupt and that the FBI is investigating the leading Democratic front-runner.
KEILAR: If there is nothing there, Corey, then why did they pull it? And why did they pull it and then send out the new tweet with, instead of that star, and it wasn't a five-point star, it was a circle the next time they did it? He did it, the next time he did it.
LEWANDOWSKI: Look, the bottom line is -- again, the bottom line, this is political correctness run amok.
If this would have been a star next to Hillary Clinton and didn't have the cash behind it, no one would be questioning this. This is the mainstream media trying to read into something.
And here's the thing. You have to remember where the sources are coming from. Erick Erickson is a person who is part of the never- Trump movement. He has -- he has been against Trump from day one. And that's OK. And he's entitled to do that .
But, at the end of the day, the message is very clear. Hillary Clinton is under investigation from the FBI. She went in this weekend for a three-and-a-half-hour interview because she didn't want to be subpoenaed, and her husband is trying to intervene in this case by meeting with the attorney general, not to talk about golf and talk about grandchildren.
That conversation doesn't take 30 minutes. The real question is, is the FBI going to make the right recommendation? Because, if it were you or I or anyone else in the American public, we would be indicted by now. And that's what should happen, if that's what the facts of the case bear.
And if that's the case, then Loretta Lynch should clearly either recuse herself or agree right now to accept the recommendation of the FBI, not saying that she will take those into account.
KEILAR: Corey Lewandowski, thank you, former campaign manager to Donald Trump.
LEWANDOWSKI: OK. Thank you.
KEILAR: And coming up: Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton's favorabilities, both of them, at historic lows. And one man is seizing on the opportunity.
Will a third-party candidate rising -- with rising numbers challenge the two-party system? We have that next.
KEILAR: Welcome back.
Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are facing intraparty tensions. Members of the Republican establishment, like Jeb Bush and John Kasich, are pledging not to attend the party's upcoming convention.
Donald Trump responding to those splits this week:
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: When you have all these guys -- and, you know, it was a rough primary. And they got beat up. And -- but they went after me too. And, you know, we beat them up. And now they don't want to endorse. And, you know, it's almost in some ways like I am running against two parties.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
KEILAR: And on the Democratic side, Bernie Sanders still has not endorsed Hillary Clinton, keeping many of his supporters behind him.
With so many unhappy voters on both sides of the aisle, is there space for a third-party candidate?
A recent NBC/"Wall Street Journal" poll gave Libertarian presidential nominee Gary Johnson 10 percent of the vote.
So, will it be enough?
KEILAR: Joining me now is Libertarian presidential nominee Gary Johnson.
And, Governor Johnson, I want to talk big picture with you off the bat here. What is your path to the presidency?
GARY JOHNSON, LIBERTARIAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I wouldn't be doing this if there weren't the opportunity to win.
And having Bill Weld as a running mate, I think that -- that broadens the path. But the only way that we have of winning is to be in the presidential debates. And to be in the presidential debates, you have to be at 15 percent in the polls.
On the plus side, we're now being an afterthought in a lot of these polls, Clinton, Trump, and then they will ask another question, add Johnson, and we're pretty much showing up at 10 percent in these polls.
But how about Johnson, Trump and Clinton right at the get-go? And I think, if they will do that, that we will actually be at 15 percent.
KEILAR: You said that having Weld on the ticket does broaden your support.
KEILAR: That certainly is true with at least one person, Mitt Romney, who spoke to Wolf Blitzer about the ticket. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITT ROMNEY (R), 2012 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: If Bill Weld were at the top of the ticket it would be very easy for me to vote for Bill Weld for president. So I'll get to know Gary Johnson better and see if he is someone who I could end up voting for. That's something which I'll evaluate over the coming weeks and months.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Have you talked to Mitt Romney? Are you trying to get that support?
JOHNSO: Well, look, I think he is the same as a lot of people, and it is an opportunity to really -- people are tuning in. It's really happening, and all a good thing. We offer unique stools to the chair. Fiscally conservative, over the top, two former Republican governors serving two terms. Getting reelected by big margins in heavily blue states.
KEILAR: Mitt Romney is someone who is a real influencer. There are a number of Republicans who would listen to him if he said, you know what, I now -- I like Bill Weld, but I now like Gary Johnson, and this is something I can get behind.
Has Bill Weld or have you been in touch with Mitt Romney to court what could be some very important support?
JOHNSON: You know, I think there has been some outreach. But important is that individuals like Mitt Romney want to find out. And that's what he expressed -- that's what he expressed, and I'm going to take him at his word that he will take a hard look at Gary Johnson. I think he'll find that what he sees he'll at the end of the day like. We'll see what happens.
KEILAR: Former president Bill Clinton sparking a controversy this week. He had a private conversation with Loretta Lynch, the attorney general who is overseeing the investigation of Hillary Clinton's private email server.
Lynch is not recusing herself. She still wants to be briefed on the Clinton investigation, but she says she fully expects to -- quote -- "accept the recommendation of the FBI and the Department of Justice."
Do you think she needs to recuse herself?
JOHNSON: You know, I will leave that judgment to others. I am not a stone-thrower when it comes to Hillary Clinton and her emails and her server. I don't think there has been criminal intent on Hillary Clinton's part, so I don't see an indictment. KEILAR: Donald Trump is moving closer at this point to picking his running mate. There is a Trump advisor who told CNN's Jim Acosta that former house speaker Newt Gingrich is under serious consideration for the job. What is your assessment of Newt Gingrich? Would his selection improve your confidence in Trump or no?
JOHNSON: Well, I have differences with Newt Gingrich, but regardless of the ticket, I have real issues with Donald Trump. Deporting 11 million undocumented workers, building a fence across the border, killing the families of Muslim terrorists, all for free trade, but going to force Apple to make their iPads and iPhones in the United States -- going to apply a 35 percent tariff on imported goods. I mean, he's a neo isolationist. Stop.
KEILAR: He raised eyebrows on Thursday to that point he told a woman in New Hampshire that he is looking at, when she asked about it, replacing Muslim TSA employees who wear hijabs, the traditional head scarf, with military retirees -- with veterans. What did you make of the comment?
JOHNSON: Well, just that he has said 100 things that would disqualify anyone else from running for president but doesn't seem to affect him. And just turn the page and here is the page turned now we have another reason that might disqualify a presidential candidate. That statement in and of itself it really is -- it's racist.
KEILAR: You feel that he's racist (ph) -- you called him neo isolationist, but you feel that his statement is racist. Do you think he is racist?
JOHNSON: Well, when it comes to Mexican immigration and that he would call immigrants from Mexico murderers and rapists -- look, that's just not true. They are more law-abiding than U.S. citizens and that is a statistic. They're not taking jobs that U.S. citizens want. The stuff he is saying is just incendiary.
KEILAR: Incendiary, but do you think he himself is racist?
JOHNSON: Based on his statements, clearly. I mean, if the statements are being made, is that not reflective of -- I mean, if you look up the definition of "racism," calling a U.S.-born Hispanic a Mexican and his inability to judge others, I think I am now semi quoting Paul Ryan here.
KEILAR: He -- Donald Trump gave a major speech this week on international trade. He issued a challenge to Hillary Clinton. This is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Ask Hillary if she is willing to withdraw from the TPP her first day in office and unconditionally rule out its passage in any form.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: I want to put that question to you. Would you withdraw from the TPP on your first day in office and unconditionally rule out its passage in any form?
JOHNSON: I am a real skeptic when it comes to these trade agreements that, in fact, these trade agreements can be laden with crony capitalism. But based on people that have been advising me that I hold in very high esteem, I am being told that the Trans-Pacific Partnership would, in fact, advance free trade, and so I would support that document.
The devil is in the details, though, and for the most part legislation that passes really promotes crony capitalism, promotes those that have money as opposed to a level playing field for everybody. So I am a skeptic, but based on what I know, I would sign TPP.
KEILAR: I want to talk about something that is pretty interesting about you. You are an adventurer. And you're quite an athlete. You have done Mt. Everest. You've run 100 miles in one stretch. I have no idea how you did that. But you biked 600 miles in 36 hours. So what is your advice to us mere mortals out there of how we can up our game?
JOHNSON: One step in front of the other. Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. And I have to correct the 600 miles in 36 hours. That was a mistake. I believe it was 485 miles in 36 hours. Not 600. I was embellishing, and it was kind of on the spot. And of course, that was in the live CNN town hall. Which very much appreciated being able to do that.
KEILAR: We appreciate the fact check although I'd tell you, I think, 485 miles in 36 hours is nothing to sneeze at. Governor Johnson, thanks so much for being with us.
JOHNSON: It was tough. It was tough. Thank you very much. Great being with you.
KEILAR: And coming up. He is on Trump's V.P. list and is one of the brightest guys Joe Biden knows and he is a Republican. Which candidate is it? That's next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I'd like to ask one question before I begin. Newt, are you going to do it? That's OK. That's all I wanted to know. I just want -- I wanted to get to the important things.
NEWT GINGRICH, FMR. HOUSE SPEAKER: Joe, should I?
BIDEN: He needs the help, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: That was Vice President Joe Biden asking Newt Gingrich the question on everyone's mind. He went on to compliment the former speaker on his potential bid for V.P.
And joining me now to talk about all of this, former NAACP chair Ben Jealous, who supports Bernie Sanders, former South Carolina Lieutenant governor, Andre Bauer, a Trump supporter, and CNN political commentators Bakari Sellers, a Hillary Clinton backer, and Amanda Carpenter, who was Ted Cruz's communications director.
So we learned this week, Andre, that Newt Gingrich is really under serious consideration here. Clearly Joe Biden is on board. I think he made that pretty clear. Is he the guy? Do you think that Trump will pick him?
ANDRE BAUER, FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: I don't think he will. I would like to see him pick someone that brings a different perspective, not so much a Washington perspective.
Look, Newt is probably the most brilliant person right now in politics. And he did get a lot done across party lines, working with Bill Clinton, Contract with America. So he has a success story and I think he is brilliant but I still would stick with my pick of Governor Mary Fallin out of Oklahoma that balances the ticket. Someone who has executive experience and legislative experience and has shown she can get things done as well.
KEILAR: She would obviously have to up her name recognition I think for a lot of people.
BAUER: I think you all will do that for her.
KEILAR: You have been tough, Amanda, on Donald Trump. But is there, as you look at this slate of potential V.P. picks, it's pretty big, is there anyone who, if Donald Trump were to pick them, it would at least improve your view of him?
AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I do think a potential Gingrich pick would represent one ray of light in the respect that it would show that Donald Trump is willing to listen to tough criticism from his inner circle. There have been two important times that Gingrich has criticized Donald Trump and that's when Trump made the negative comments about Heidi Cruz and also the comments about Judge Curiel's Mexican heritage.
If Donald Trump can bring someone into his inner circle who can bring that kind of criticism to him, he can listen to it and possibly change, that would be a vast improvement.
KEILAR: What do you think?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. I would actually -- the Democrat I would cherish Newt Gingrich being on the ticket as well as Governor Chris Christie. I mean, I think, one thing that we know about Hillary Clinton, unless you have been hiding under a rock, is that she has issues with trust and honesty. Those are the highest negatives that she has.
KEILAR: Does she, Bakari? Yes. That's her Achilles' heel.
SELLERS: And you kind of -- you negate that when you have someone like Newt Gingrich who had the highest find -- ethics find in history of the United States Congress, who took $1.3 million from Fannie and Freddie before they went under. And you know, he's been -- there is a salvo that Donald Trump has been wanting to throw at the Clintons about Bill Clinton and you completely take that away with Newt Gingrich because you then (ph) have six wives on one ticket. I have never seen that. I think that's a first in American political history.
KEILAR: Is that a big issue? I mean, that's obviously something a lot of people would be talking about, Andre. Even if not overtly, it would be something -- it would be some definite kitchen-table fodder.
BAUER: Well, that's that many more constituents.
At this point people are looking for somebody to change Washington. And I don't think there is concern with the personal issues in this election cycle as they are who can help me make my life better? Who is going to make my job opportunities better? I think that's the big question at this point in time in our country's history.
BEN JEALOUS, FORMER PRESIDENT AND CEO, NAACP: Newt from a civil rights perspective would be a complete nightmare (INAUDIBLE) Trump- Gingrich (ph) is as bad as it gets. I think Trump could do himself a favor by having some person of color amongst the 10 of 12. To have like no Latinos, no black folks, no one from your state. You're governor, your senator. You know, I mean --
SELLERS: Even Rubio. I mean, just throw a name out there.
CARPENTER: Well, listen, Donald Trump's short list for V.P. is short by default. There's just not that many people willing to sign up for a job.
CARPENTER: So he has a limited universe of people to choose from. He said he wants legislative experience. You know, Corey Lewandowski, they were talking about Mike Pence earlier which I was really intrigued to see Corey say that they Indiana is a battleground state.
SELLERS: I hope so.
CARPENTER: Donald Trump made it that way. KEILAR: OK. Hillary Clinton as well, she is narrowing down her V.P. list. And the names right now that have been floated include Tim Kaine, Elizabeth Warren, Cory Booker, who would not say he was not being vetted, Julian Castro, Tom Perez, Xavier Becerra, and Sherrod Brown.
One person not on the list, Ben, is Bernie Sanders. Are you disappointed he is not getting a closer look?
JEALOUS: No. Look, I mean, he is probably the one person in the U.S. Senate for whom running for vice president would be a demotion at this time. He would be the most powerful senator in the U.S. Senate. It's a massive movement behind him.
Frankly, I think, he would lose credibility. And -- and that wing of the party, which is massive, would be disempowered.
KEILAR: You have said -- you told "Politico," Bakari, I don't think there should be two white people on the ticket. A lot of people think that Tim Kaine is going to be the safe bet and that, when Hillary Clinton, her argument against Donald Trump is this guy is dangerous, she has to go with someone who is -- quote -- unquote, "safe." But you disagree.
SELLERS: Well, I mean, I think that you can be safe, but you can also be exciting. I think that Representative Becerra is exciting. I am very close -- I'm very good friends with Tom Perez. I think Tom Perez is brilliant. I think that they speak to a growing population both of them, the Hispanic voter in this country. And -- I mean, the -- just the visuals, the aesthetics of our party. I mean, I want to see Barack and Michelle. I want to see Hillary and Bill but I also want to see some more color on the stage. I think Ben would echo that as well.
JEALOUS: Yes -- no, look, I think Mayor Garcetti should be on the list. He is one of the rising stars in the party. He is Latino. He's Jewish. He's brilliant. He serves in the U.S. Navy. He has street cred with progressives across country. And his family has been close to her family for a long time. That's the type of person she should be choosing.
KEILAR: Maybe that will be the dark horse. We have no idea.
The big news this weekend has been Hillary Clinton sitting down for this interview with the FBI. Three and a half hours. Really just extraordinary. And then afterward what we're hearing from sources telling CNN's Evan Perez, is that they don't actually -- they expect there is going to be an announcement of no charges here in the next couple of weeks or so. That is based on the idea that there was no additional finding of wrong-doing or that she didn't essentially mess up during this interview with the FBI.
Donald Trump, not surprisingly, seizing on this. He said, "It was just announced by sources that no charges will be brought against crooked Hillary Clinton. Like I said, the system is totally rigged."
If this is truly an independent system, investigation, then why does it seem that this is pre-determined, the outcome?
SELLERS: Well, I don't think it's been predetermined. In fact, I think, they just go where the facts lead them. Maybe I have more confidence in the FBI than most. But the fact does remain though and I do this all the time with my clients. And if your client has any exposure or if your client has any hint of illegality, they do not sit down with the FBI.
BAUER: Hmm --
So I don't think that that's anything -- I thought what yesterday was was a signal to everyone, especially Democrats that this is imminent -- that the conclusion of this is imminent.
KEILAR: I heard you say kind of hmm there.
BAUER: I disagree. I mean, she has got to make this problem go away as quickly as possible. It doesn't need to drag on with the convention. What are you going to say, no, FBI, I'm not going to sit down and meet with you?
KEILAR: Politically maybe it wasn't voluntary but if likely no charges are brought, Andre, doesn't that undercut Donald Trump's argument against her and sort of take away one of his attack lines?
BAUER: I think it doesn't. All of this plays to honesty, integrity.
Bill Clinton as much as, you know, you kind of like the guy, the meeting with Loretta just -- all of it plays into -- to the average voter is going, wait a minute. What's going on here? Would I have gotten out of this? It's good old boy politics and is there a good old lady politics at its best.
CARPENTER: Yes. And Hillary Clinton is going to know (INAUDIBLE) situation on this. Either she is indicted which would be really bad for her or she is cleared and everyone thinks that the system is rigged. But what I think is really interesting is that she spent more time this year taking questions from FBI investigators but (ph) then (ph) reporters in a press conference. And that problem is not going to --
KEILAR: The year is young. She can change that. You back Bernie Sanders, Ben. Some have said he's staying in this in case something happens with this investigation.
JEALOUS: He is staying in this to make sure that the platform continues to move in the way that it should move. And right now the fact that they've refused to put in tough language on the TPP and on trade, you know, is a -- that's reason enough to stay in there.
Trump is running to the left of Clinton on trade. That's a problem. He is also running to the left of her on war and he's running to the left of her on Wall Street. Now, we've been able to push to get language in the platform, for instance, for a new Glass-Steagall Act. That will help her out in the campaign trail. She has got to come towards us on trade.
SELLERS: As a Clinton supporter, I would echo a lot of the sentiments that Ben has said. And I would hope that over the next few weeks, with July 7th and 8th, when we have a platform committee we can find some agreement on trade and be able to get this. Because that is what Ohio and Pennsylvania, where this election in all likelihood are going to be won.
KEILAR: Thank so much to all of you.
Amanda Carpenter, Bakari Sellers, Ben Jealous and Andre Bauer, appreciate you being with us. And after the break, the ups and downs of the candidates and capturing them in art. It is this week's "State of the Cartoonion," next.
KEILAR: Welcome back, every week Jake Tapper draws a cartoon about the big and sometimes peculiar moments in politics. But how does an artist capture complex candidates on paper? Jake goes into the mind and hands of one of his favorite cartoonists.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): The candidates, seen by millions.
CLINTON: Thank you all so much.
TAPPER: Known by just a few and captured by cartoonists in a single frame.
STEVE BRODNER, POLITICAL CARTOONIST AND ILLUSTRATOR: Whenever I draw anybody, I am feeling that person's experience at that moment. It is about the kind of empathy, it's a kind of feeling what they're feeling.
TAPPER: Renowned political cartoonist and illustrator Steve (ph) Brodner has spent decades depicting the lives and times of public figures including Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.
BRODNER: I draw her as this large character almost like a big, you know, parade mask -- what's really buried inside that big Hillary head? As a caricature it's much more fascinating to me than anybody else this year.
TAPPER: Brodner says the changes through the years and all of Clinton's different personas make her the hardest to draw. [09:55:03]
BRODNER: There are so many different sides to her. She never really means one thing. The nose is further down on the face than many noses are. The lips are very close to the bottom. And she's got very small lips. And they're almost pursed.
TAPPER: And when it comes to the billionaire mogul turned presumptive Republican presidential nominee.
BRODNER: He does have that kind of boxy look. And the hair, I would say defines the head more than maybe anything else.
TAPPER: Trump's iconic appearance is easy to draw for Brodner but capturing the nature behind him presents that challenge.
BRODNER: Behind my drawing of Trump is a kind of a battle of a person at war with himself in a way. He seems like a deeply unhappy man. He seems like a hurt person to me.
TAPPER: Brodner looks to translate politics into his art extracting a larger meaning from the political moment.
BRODNER: Cartoonists are not impartial, they have point of view. If you take point of view out of a drawing, the drawing is nothing.
TAPPER: Jake Tapper CNN Washington.
KEILAR: And thank you for spending your Sunday morning with us. Go to CNN.com/SOTU for extras from the show. I'm Brianna Keilar in Washington.
"FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" is next.