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THE SITUATION ROOM
Protest Turns Violent in California; Trump Arrives Home to Major Poll Troubles; Will Stocks Plunge Even More After Brexit?; Security Fears Rise After Brexit Decision; West Virginians See Worst Flash Flooding in Years; Supreme Court to Rule on Texas Abortion Case; Aired 5-6p ET
Aired July 4, 2016 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
[17:00:07] SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: It's 5:00 here in Atlanta. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Suzanne Malveaux in for Poppy Harlow.
We have breaking news this hour here on CNN. A protest now turning violent in California. Many people are hurt, some of them badly.
The scene you're looking here, this is Sacramento, on the ground of the state capitol. Two groups now clashing at a planned march on the capitol by what police called a right-wing extremist group. Another group met them. They started fighting and several people were stabbed.
On the phone with me now, this is George Granada, he is with the Capitol Protection Section of the California Highway Patrol.
Thank you so much for joining us here. Tell us what is the scene now. We are looking at pictures from earlier today. Have things calmed down at the capitol? Are people still fighting?
GEORGE GRANADA, CAPITOL PROTECTION SECTION, CALIFORNIA HIGHWAY PATROL: Yes, ma'am. No, this afternoon, as you see, prior to the noon hour, we had a permitted event that was about to take place. As the Traditional Workers Party started to arrive on scene, anti-fascist group, you know, it was chaotic. Immediately ran in and hundreds of people and they just engage in a fight.
We had multiple stabbings. I think it's up to maybe seven at this point. At that point, the permitted event was canceled. Any other permitted event they were scheduled for the day have been canceled. The capitol is currently on lockdown. So we're not letting anybody in or out of the capitol that happened to be inside still. At this moment, everything has calmed down quite a bit. There may be up to 100 people that are still on the ground. Nobody is fighting.
The permitted event, the Traditional Workers Party that had the permit, I do not believe any of those individuals were on the ground of the capitol. So it's just the anti-fascist group that happens to still be currently on the ground. MALVEAUX: Can you explain this for us again, the two different groups
that are on the ground that were participating in this fight, which group had the permit to actually rally, which was the group that was there to disrupt it?
GRANADA: Yes, the Traditional Workers Party was the permitted -- they had the permit that was supposed to take place at noon and anti- fascist group that showed up were anti-protesters of that event.
MALVEAUX: Are you saying fascist or anti-fascist group?
MALVEAUX: OK. Thank you. And about how many people were there as part of the Traditional Workers Party organization.
GRANADA: Yes. Like I said that just started to come on the grounds prior to the noon hour. I don't even know if there was 30 of them. And then they were met with a large group of individuals.
MALVEAUX: And how did it start? How did it begin? Do you know?
GRANADA: How did the -- the fight?
GRANADA: Basically, as you can see, some people walking onto the grounds and the entire anti-fascist group running after them and engaging them in a fight.
MALVEAUX: We are seeing pictures here of people with bats. Can you explain which group is that and where that is?
GRANADA: I'm not seeing the photos that you're referring to right now, so I don't know. Yes, I never -- it happened so fast. I don't know who was carrying what.
MALVEAUX: And you say now seven people were injured. How were they injured? Are all seven of those injuries stabbings?
GRANADA: Yes. My understanding is that all of them came in as stabbings. Whether it was by knife or via stick, I do not know that. And it happened at multiple locations. One at the initial impact where the two groups collided with each other. And then I think as people were trying to leave the area, some more fights broke out.
MALVEAUX: And do we expect that any of the injuries are life- threatening?
GRANADA: I do not know the status of any of them. I believe they're all non-life threatening, though.
MALVEAUX: And what was the police presence there at the capitol? Was this anticipated that there were going to be two different groups opposing each other at this rally? GRANADA: Yes, there were. So Sac PD had a group of officers assigned
to this event as well as the highway patrol. We had additional men here for this event.
MALVEAUX: All right. I want to bring in our own Art Roderick, CNN law enforcement analyst who's on the phone joining us now to talk about this.
And first of all, Art, what would you normally anticipate when you know that there's going to be an organization that is controversial, that is a white supremacist group, that is going to be holding a public rally? How do you prepare for something like that on the ground? Do you anticipate that there are going to be other people there, that there could be some trouble?
[17:05:00] ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, generally, I mean, in some cases, there's some type of threat assessment that's done based on the group that's coming in. I mean, obviously the group, when they fill out the paperwork to get the permit, you know, actually puts down what the -- what the purpose of the -- of the rally is. And at that particular point, it looks to me like they did have quite a few law enforcement officers around there, mounted patrol, and also later on you had officers show up with riot gear.
But generally that is a big factor into whether they even permit an organization like that to have a rally. I think what it looks to me like, it just got overwhelmed with the amount of anti-protesters that were there. The anti-fascist group that arrived. Looked like they had at least 100 strong there. And I think it just got overwhelmed -- it overwhelmed law enforcement and also the permitted rally.
Now as you recall, Suzanne, the incident down in Waco where the two biker groups clashed in --
RODERICK: In the shootout. Eventually, they were -- a lot of them were brought to trial. There was indictments coming out. I think you'll probably see the same thing here because there seems to be quite a bit of video that law enforcement's going to be able to go through to see who was committing the assault, be it the assaults on the different individuals.
MALVEAUX: And, Art, the pictures that we're seeing here, we know that -- we understand that some of these injuries are stabbings. But we are also seeing people with some sticks or some clubs. Is there any way that you can actually have this kind of public rally and go through and check bags and make sure that people don't have knives, that they're not armed in these ways, in applying for permits or things like that? Would that be something they could control in an outdoor rally like this?
RODERICK: It is something they can control through the permit process. But as you can see, this large group came out. And those poles or batons that they were holding looked like they were actually part of the protest signs that they had made up and just started using them as weapons. But it is controllable to a certain degree. But, you know, we have a right to these types of rallies. And you just have to deal with them from an overwhelming force perspective from law enforcement to be able to control exactly what's going on there.
MALVEAUX: And we heard, we just spoke with George Granada, the capitol protection section. And he was saying that he believed that these injuries, the stabbings, were taking place at different areas within the capitol there where the rally was being held.
MALVEAUX: Is there any way -- from a law enforcement perspective -- that you can control the extent of the injuries and the chaos that is taking place if it's happening in various places around that building?
RODERICK: Yes, I mean, it looks like they're ting to -- they had the mounted patrol out there. Mounted patrol is great in these types of crowd control situations. And they're out there doing their job. You can see them now as they were trying to control this group. And you see several individuals that have been assaulted there from the -- from Nationalist rally, the White Nationalist rally. That really the only way to do this is an overwhelming show of force.
And it looks like that's exactly what they did because it looks like they got the situation under control pretty quickly with seven people being assaulted.
MALVEAUX: And Art, I notice there, you're right, that the police -- the mounted police are corralling those who looked like they'd been injured in this --
MALVEAUX: In the altercation there. Is it possible for them to have been able to contain at least the small group of people while -- I saw a lot of running, a lot of chasing. Is that something that the police are -- you know, use as tactic to try to prevent that from happening, from that getting out of control? Could they have kept them in a particular area?
RODERICK: Yes, you're right, Suzanne. I mean, I think -- it sounds to me like when this all started that they were just getting ready for the rally. And as the minute some of these individuals showed up, they were attack, by the other groups so I think they were even set up for the rally. And of course the law enforcement canceled the permitted rally right away and then tried to help as many individuals as they could.
You could see them actually doing triage right there at the scene. The individuals that were injured. But I don't even think this rally got started before they were already attacked by the anti-fascist group.
MALVEAUX: And Art, just a final question here. It sounds to me, you said that -- we had learned that seven people had been stabbed or at least injured here by the gentleman that we just talked to. RODERICK: Right.
MALVEAUX: It sounded to me that you thought that perhaps that was a low number, that this is perhaps a good outcome of what could have taken place looking at the numbers, the sheer numbers of people who are involved in this, that this could have been much, much worse.
[17:10:11] RODERICK: It could have been much, much worse. And you know, the other issue, too, here as we're watching this video is it -- it looks like law enforcement got it under control so quickly. I didn't even see them using any tear gas or anything. So I think once the initial melee occurred and then the mounted patrols showed up, it was pretty much under control. And the White Nationalist group actually retreated into a building to get away from the other individuals. But they were -- they were badly outnumbered and I think that's just what happened, they just got overwhelmed.
MALVEAUX: And also just very quickly, was there any kind of process where they would have been checking bags before they gathered? Would they have been able to do something like that to make sure nobody had an kind of knives or weapons? Is that typical?
RODERICK: It's very difficult to do that at these rallies unless you have a filter point. It looks like this was pretty much in an open area. And the group that didn't have the permit just showed up en masse. I'm sure law enforcement didn't expect that many people to show up as an anti-protest against the White Nationalist rally. And I think it just -- it just happened so quickly. But law enforcement looks like they got it under control fairly quickly and that's why you only had seven injuries.
MALVEAUX: All right. Art, thank you so much. Please stay with us as this story develops. I want you to listen to this woman who was part of the group that clashed with the self-described White Nationalists. She told a reporter in Sacramento why they did it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YVETTE FELARCA, MEMBER, "BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY": Well, you know, it's important for anyone who's thinking about joining racist genocide and a racist genocide organization like the Nazi groups that were holding this that they're not welcome. And if they trip and fall in the process of that, good, they need to go. And we succeeded in driving them out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It seems like you're very happy with the overall come out. Is there anything that you might have changed? I mean, five people -- from what we heard at least five did get stabbed, part of the counter protest group which would be your side.
FELARCA: And we are really glad to say that the people who were injured did not sustain life threatening injuries. I means, you have people who are making sure that they're getting taken cared of and that they have people who are taking care of them. But this means, though -- but I'm not, I feel like all of us, from that, all it did was fuel our determination to keep this movement going and fight even harder which is what we did after that.
The Nazis, a couple of them tried to come out on the steps for about 20 seconds and they were driven out and were sent to be scurrying back into the building. And then they had to cancel the entire thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Some are asking who is this group involved in today's incident. Well, here is a mission statement from their Web site. "The Traditionalist Worker Party is America's first political party created by and for working families. Our mission is defending faith, family, and folk against the politicians and oligarchs who are running America into the ground."
I want to bring in our own CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes on the phone to talk about that.
First of all, Tom, you know, from your law enforcement background, FBI background and intelligence, do you have any idea who this group is? I am not aware of them.
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST (via phone): I'm not aware of them in particular, but I do have particular experience with this issue. In the mid-1970s, I was a police officer in the Chicago area. And the American Nazi Party wanted a parade permit to march down the streets of Skokie, Illinois. Skokie is a suburb of Chicago. Large population. Many holocaust survivors and families of holocaust victims there.
And the Skokie officials said no, you can't. We don't want people going down the street carrying swastikas and Nazi flags, and they were denied. The American Civil Liberties Union took their case and it went -- and the Supreme Court said no, saying authorities must allow these groups to exercise their First Amendment right. Now the city can dictate where the public gathering is, they can put some controls on it, but they cannot deny their rights. And additionally must protect them in the exercise of their rights.
So me, as a young cop, just being expendable, I had to stand in front of those Nazis many, many times and -- while people showed up and threw bottles and fruits and other debris at them, usually hitting us, the police officers. So I'm very familiar with what can go wrong if there's a situation like that. But our Supreme Court has ruled that these cities must allow freedom of speech.
FUENTES: They can protect it, they can put parameters on it, but they must allow it.
MALVEAUX: So, Tom, looking at the scene here and how it unfolded, give us your analysis, your expertise here.
[17:15:03] How well do you think it was handled in light of the fact that, yes, this group, this white supremacist group, this hate group, was permitted and under the law has to be permitted, of course, to assemble in a public place and express themselves? And law enforcement was there, it seems, to try to protect that group. But how do you think it -- it played out here?
FUENTES: Well, to me, the fact that these groups were able to actually physically get in each other faces and stab each other or at least the fascist be stabbed that's --
MALVEAUX: It sounds like --
FUENTES: Police should have gotten there more quickly with more force to keep them apart.
MALVEAUX: Could they have set up a barrier or was there a barricade that was set up between these two groups? Should that have been something that was done prior?
FUENTES: Yes, they can dictate the -- you know, they can set up security measures and they can put a barricade in front of them or a line of police officers in front of them. There's a lot they can do.
MALVEAUX: I'm not hearing Tom.
FUENTES: Preventing them from -- preventing them from speaking is not one of the options.
MALVEAUX: And looking at the injuries and the extent of the injuries here, Tom, does there seem to be a way that they might have been able to get the weapons, to get the knives away from folks before this turned into something that really seemed to be quite serious?
FUENTES: Well, if you had enough police officers in front of this group, then when the protesters showed up, they would have been fighting with the police. Now if we'd to have seven police officers stabbed, and that's another story. But they would have been fighting with the police directly and not with this group with the inadequate police protection. Now again, the police responded quickly. They got a hold of the situation quickly. But you still had too many people stabbed.
MALVEAUX: All right, Tom, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
We want to bring here -- we have a statement from the leader of this Traditionalist Worker Party. Matthew Heimbach, wasn't there, but, quote, is saying here that, "The anti fascists used knives, bottles, bricks, and chunks of concrete. They broke off a construction site. When they attacked, our men defended themselves to be able to drive the attackers out of."
Again that is from Matthew Heimbach, that is the leader of this group called the Traditionalist Worker Party.
We'll have more on this breaking news after a very quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [17:20:37] MALVEAUX: And we turn to the race for the presidency. Donald Trump back in the states after a whirlwind weekend in Scotland whisking reporters around his resort. But here's what he has come home to. Major signs that his support is taking a serious hit. Hillary Clinton now holds a 12 percent lead over Trump in a just released poll done by ABC News and the "Washington Post."
It's a big swing from the same survey last month where Clinton was actually behind. Trump is taking now to Twitter writing, "The ABC poll sample is heavily on Democrats. Very dishonest. Why would they do that? Other polls are good".
One other poll that was just released is from the "Wall Street Journal" and NBC. And while it's better, it's certainly not good for Trump. It finds Clinton with a five-point lead again up from where she stood last month.
So should Trump and his campaign be concerned? Let's talk about it with our political panel. Joining me now CNN Politics reporter Tom LoBianco and CNN political commentator and host of BET News, Marc Lamont Hill, CNN Politics senior reporter Stephen Collinson and CNN political commentator and Trump supporter Kayleigh McEnany.
Thank you so much all of you for joining us. Tom, let's start off with you. Trump has not led Clinton in a national poll since May. She's now seeing her largest lead. Could we see this begin to translate in some of those key battleground states that we've been watching?
TOM LOBIANCO, CNN POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: I think this is the post unity bump that people were looking for on the Democratic side. There are big questions of when Bernie Sanders would get out. He's effectively out at this point. No endorsement of course yet. But what happened -- what we saw when Trump became the presumptive nominee, he got that polling bump. And now Clinton is getting the polling bump.
And this is why the Trump campaign is really starting to retool, why they got serious. You saw the departure of Lewandowski. We just got an e-mail from Paul Manafort sent out to the -- to their e-mail list, the campaign chairman, hitting on main points, hitting on them cleanly. Making a clear concise argument.
These are the type of things that you want to see from the general election nominee. From the presumptive nominee. So they've made that pivot. There's a little bit of catch-up to be had here, but there's some time.
MALVEAUX: Well, Kayleigh, let's bring you in because Trump has always made a lot about the polls. Most especially when he is winning. How does he handle the polls that -- you know, when he's behind and he continues to call them dishonest? But does he learn perhaps from these polls? Does he learn that there are things that he needs to adjust or perhaps alter that, you know, maybe he made some mistakes and he can increase his poll numbers in some of the ones that he say are dishonest? KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, yes, I think Tom
makes a very good point that, you know, putting forth your message cleanly and sharply is the key right now. Coming out of Brexit, Donald Trump really has an opportunity to say my message, my message of bringing jobs home, my message of not letting ISIS terrorists come within our borders is something that's resonated across the world.
And he has an opportunity now to drive home that message and he needs to do so forcefully in order to change these numbers. But I would point out quickly just that the NBC poll, when you factor in Gary Johnson, the gap between the two candidates actually comes to just two points. Moreover he's winning independents by 10 points. He needs to improve his numbers among women, but there are some promising signs and he can change this around by putting forth that clean message.
MALVEAUX: And the fact that you say he needs to improve his numbers among women, does that mean that he does take some polls seriously when he -- when it looks like he's behind when it comes to women? It seems like there is an acknowledgement there.
MCENANY: I think you're right because I think we've seen him say in rallies, you know, my numbers among men are good but I really would, you know, prefer to see my numbers among women be good. So we have seen that's happened -- acknowledgement for sure.
MALVEAUX: OK. Marc, conservative columnist George Will says he's left the Republican Party because of Trump. But what do you think most Republicans make of that? Does it even -- does it really even matter? I mean, he is a voice, but he is just one voice. And there are so many people within the Republican Party who are anti- establishment who maybe don't really care.
MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, that's exactly right. There are people who are particularly interested in George Will's political choices, not one to suggest that George Will has a huge political following that he's going to lead out to the Democratic Party as such. But what George Will's exit does signify is that there are many people who consider themselves traditional Republicans, died- in-the-war Republicans, establishment Republicans, and old guard Republicans who simply can't get on board with Donald Trump.
[17:25:03] Will most of them leave the RNC? No. But most of -- many of them may not vote. They may stay home or they may go to the Gary Johnson direction. So when Kayleigh says, you know, well, you know, we factor in Gary Johnson, you can factor in Gary Johnson in a sense of saying, you know, they still don't want Hillary. But when it comes to election day, if those people don't pull Donald Trump's lever, he is not going to win. He needs to get traditional Republicans and women on board. And these polls suggest --
MALVEAUX: I think we lost Marc here.
Stephen, let's go to you. There are two issues that are at the heart of the Brexit vote where a dissatisfaction with the political status quo, and there were also concerns over immigration. And those seem to be the two issues that Trump certainly has made the center of his campaign. He says there are parallels here. Some others think that that clearly kind of an overstatement. But some people believe that Hillary Clinton should be worried because there is this kind of sentiment of going against the grain, against the establishment. Do you think that rings true?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICS REPORTER: Yes, I think, Suzanne, you're right. There are clearly trends in common with what's happened in America in this primary season, this -- this insurgent anti-establishment mood, and what happened in the UK vote with the Brexit. I think one of the most significant things that happened with the Brexit result is perhaps something that should worry the Clinton campaign is that a Democratic electorate listened to all the warnings of the terror of events would unfold if they voted to leave Europe, and they ignored it.
In some ways that is exactly what Hillary Clinton is doing towards Donald Trump. She's saying Donald Trump is too dangerous to be president, he doesn't have the knowledge, all sorts of, you know, unforeseen circumstances could unfold not just in the United States but in the entire international geopolitical system if Donald Trump becomes president. And the UK voters looked to those arguments and rejected them.
Donald Trump is hoping that voters in the United States in November do exactly the same thing. So I think that is where the Clinton campaign should be worried. Having said that, this is a U.S. election. It's, you know, 50 state races. It will in effect be decided in seven or eight swing states. So I think it's, you know, wrong to overdo the parallels, but there are certainly things taking place in western democracies right now that Donald Trump and the Brexit, you know, campaign have in common.
MALVEAUX: All right. We'll see how the Brexit campaign and Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton both deal with that in the days to come.
Thank you so much, Tom LoBianco, Marc Lamont Hill, Stephen Collinson and Kayleigh McEnany. Thank you so much.
And just ahead, more on our top story. Seven people now sent to the hospital. Several of them stabbed at a rally at the California capitol. Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
[17:30:25] MALVEAUX: We have breaking news this hour here on CNN. Violent clashes and bloodshed in the shadow of California's state capitol.
This is Sacramento where just a short time ago a group that calls itself White Nationalist were met head on by another group intending to protest against them. It quickly turned violent. Fighting and then weapons and complete chaos. Right now seven people are in area hospitals. Some of them stabbed and in critical condition.
Our Nick Valencia is watching this breaking story. And we have as well our CNN law enforcement analyst Art Roderick.
Nick, first of all you and I have been following this the last 30 minutes or so.
NICK VALENCIA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
MALVEAUX: Tell us what police are telling you. We understand that it happened very quickly. It escalated and currently that the capitol -- that building is on lockdown.
VALENCIA: So here's what we know. We know that this was a planned rally by the Traditionalist Worker Party and their sympathizers. I won't quite call them an affiliate but the Golden State Skin Heads. This was planned well in advance. I was just reading on their Web site of their sympathizer group, Golden State Skin Heads, that they had expected violence in this. So you have to assume that the police given the charged nature of this rally also anticipated violence.
They went there armed according to the chairman of this group, Matthew Heimbach, a 2013 graduate of Townsend University in Maryland. He is the chairman of this group. And he spoke just a short time ago to our assignment desk editor Carmen Hassan telling her that two of his comrades -- this is the language that he used. Two comrades were injured, one stabbed possibly in the neck, another receiving a bottle to the face, also possibly glass in the eye.
We're hearing from police, multiple reports, discrepancies here between five and seven people stabbed. We know that they were confronted by an anti-fascist group. You heard sound a little while ago there from a woman who said that she was part of a group called By Any Means Necessary, and they went there, according to her, with the intention of stopping this white nationalist group.
It is considered by the SPLC, the Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks hate groups, as an extremist group. And we know that this confrontation was anticipated by at least the Traditionalist Workers Party. About 30 people, perhaps up to 50 people part of this group, they were part of this planned rally. They were confronted by much more than that. About 100 to 300 people from this anti-fascist group confronted them and that's when these violent clashes ensued just before 12:00 p.m. there on the West Coast.
So about two hours or so, two and a half hours or so ago. And you see this tape being brought in by KTXL, our local affiliate there in Sacramento, just the chaos, Suzanne, that ensued.
VALENCIA: After this happened.
MALVEAUX: And talking with law enforcement officials so far we're not aware of any arrests. We do know that people went to the hospital. It's not really clear who had those weapons, who was wielding those knives or those sticks. But clearly you can see in the pictures that it was quite a chaotic scene, that it started very quickly. That they had anticipated that there was going to be trouble because of some of the things that were put on the Web site.
We also were told, too, that this group had obtained a permit prior so that they knew and had plenty of heads up that this hate group was actually going to be holding the rally at that time and that there could be other groups or other people there who were going to make sure that that rally didn't happen.
VALENCIA: And just a little bit more about this Traditionalist Worker Party. I was doing a little bit of research before coming onset here. They believe white Americans are under attack in this country. I listened to a speech given by their chairman, Matthew Heimbach, in -- earlier this year in March at a St. Patrick's Day event. He told that crowd -- not sure how many people were there while he was speaking -- that he believes their people, white people, have a right to survive and exist, and this event planned at the state capitol in California there in Sacramento was to reject globalism, to stand up against globalism.
These are the words used by this Traditionalist Worker Party. You're looking at Matthew Heimbach right now. A very young man. Graduated in 2013. Leader of the group. He calls himself the chairman. And we should mention that this group SPLC says it is a hate group. He would reject those categorizations. He has rejected those categorizations in the past -- in past interviews. But, you know, SPLC who tracks them, they've made it plain and simple what this group stands for.
MALVEAUX: And I'm wondering, Nick, do we know anything about the group By Any Means Necessary?
VALENCIA: We don't. You know, and that's the curious part about this all. You saw that interview given on this program about 30 minutes or so ago, maybe a little bit about an hour ago.
[17:35:01] And they said that they went there with violent intentions. They were expecting to have this showdown essentially between this Traditionalist Worker Group. They wanted to use violence. They said they would use violence. They have a group called By Any Means Necessary and they said these racists need to be stopped by any means necessary.
MALVEAUX: Well, I want to bring in our analyst here, Art Roderick. And Art, you and I were talking earlier in the hour here and based on mixed reporting, it sounds like at least the police officers and the capitol police and some of those who were there had a heads up or at least certainly an idea, a sense that there was a potential for violence.
When you look at how this played out, do you think that they prepared well enough? Do you think that they had what they needed in terms of resources and how they organized themselves and these two groups to prevent something like this from happening?
RODERICK: Yes, I -- I think it -- it looked to me that they were initially overwhelmed before more law enforcement backup showed up. Generally what happens when you have -- and this happens quite a bit around the country. When you have two groups generally both will get a permit. And then you -- the law enforcement would determine where each group can protest and they keep them apart.
I think based on some of the interviews that we've heard here from the anti-fascist group is that they were there for one reason, and that was the use of violence to break this other group up. And it looks like anywhere from 100 to 200 of them showed up against 30 of the others. And I don't even think the 30 from the white nationalist group had even set up to begin their rally. And I think they just got overwhelmed initially before all the law enforcement backup showed up.
MALVEAUX: I want to show -- I want to show you, Art, as well as our viewers here, if we could, we're getting some video in. And this is actually the leader of that hate group. This is --
MALVEAUX: -- at a March 1st Trump rally in Louisville. From what we understand, we believe that that is Matthew Heimbach, the same person that we are talking about who is the head of this white supremacist who is pushing this African-American woman at that confrontation at a Trump rally.
Art, when you see that, what does that suggest to you, the intersection of those two events?
RODERICK: Yes, that's interesting. This is the first time I've seen this video. And if that is the individual, then, you know, there's some issues here that have got to be looked into specifically with this group. I mean, we all know that they have the right to hold these rallies. But law enforcement got to really take a look and do a complete threat assessment on these types of rallies, specifically with these types -- with this group here and with other groups, you know, whether it's the Skin Heads or the Arian Nation, they attract these counter protests all the time.
And that's what -- that's exactly what occurred here. And, you know, this other group came with one thing in mind. They were going to use violence to stop this particular white nationalist rally.
MALVEAUX: All right. Art Roderick, thank you so much for your analysis. We appreciate it. We're going to be following this breaking news throughout the evening here. But yes, once again, this was in Sacramento, California. Five to seven people injured. It seems as if most of those were stab wounds. That we were looking at two groups. One of them a hate group called the Traditional Worker Party and that clashed with several hundred people who had showed up, an anti-fascist group, a group called By Any Means Necessary, who were going to make sure that that rally did not happen.
And we're talking about kind of the intersection of that Trump rally and the individual who's the head of this organization and what that might mean. And whether or not there was enough protection for all of those who are involved at this rally.
We're going to take a quick break. I want to thank our Nick Valencia as well for being on top of the story and we'll have more after the break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:42:15] MALVEAUX: More breaking news. Scotland may try to block the UK from leaving the European Union. Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon says that she may ask her parliament to veto legislation needed for Britain to successfully split from the EU. Now remember Scotland overwhelmingly voted to stay with Europe. As you can see from the blue on the map there, and Scotland's first minister explained her position to the BBC. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you consider asking the Scottish parliament not to back such a motion of legislative consent?
NICOLA STURGEON, SCOTLAND FIRST MINISTER: Of course. Because if our interest --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course did you say?
STURGEON: Of course. The Scottish parliament was judging this on the basis of what's right for Scotland, then the option of seeing that we're not going to vote for something that is against Scotland's interest, of course that's going to be on the table.
MALVEAUX: Meantime, Britain's decision to dump the European Union is triggering a financial earthquake felt around the world. In just three hours, we're going to start getting more reaction from world markets. The Australian stock market opens at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. The exchange in Hong Kong opening at 9:30. Tomorrow morning, Wall Street will begin its second trading session since the Brexit news broke.
The Dow plunged more than 600 points on Friday. The British pound fell to a 31-year low against the dollar and above all Britain's upcoming divorce now creating more uncertainty. And uncertainty as we know can be toxic for investors and financial markets.
Joining me now, Greg Valliere, he is the political economist and chief strategist with Horizon Investments.
And Greg, first of all, what do we expect to see in terms of when these markets open? Another massive selloff when the trading starts tomorrow. Do we think that investors are going to rush to dump those European shares?
GREG VALLIERE, POLITICAL ECONOMIST AND CHIEF STRATEGIST, HORIZON INVESTMENTS: I think we have more volatility ahead. And maybe in a week or two things will calm down but I think for ordinary investors who are watching this evening, this is not a good time to jump in. I think that there will be loud swings up and down, probably for the next few days at least.
MALVEAUX: And you say it's a death blow to free trade and globalization. How do you explain how the UK/EU divorce is going to impact global trade?
VALLIERE: Well, I think a lot of companies, Ford, financial companies in the city of London, may leave. They may move to the continent. I think that there's going to be a lot of uncertainty over Great Britain becoming an independent entity, not really a good story for their economy.
MALVEAUX: And for the U.S. economy, what will be the impact?
VALLIERE: Well, on the one hand, on the other hand. On the one hand, I think it's good because the U.S. is probably the best place to invest. The U.S. dollar may get stronger. So anyone thinking of going to Europe I think will have a cheaper trip. But on the other hand, a strong dollar means U.S. products can't be sold as easily overseas. And I think that could be negative for a lot of U.S. multinational companies.
[17:45:05] MALVEAUX: And what products are we talking about or are we simply talking about those investment companies?
VALLIERE: No, I think manufacturing companies that ship products into Europe. If the dollar gets stronger, it's going to make it tougher to sell those products?
MALVEAUX: Specifically which ones do you think?
VALLIERE: Heavy industrials, companies like that, agricultural companies, autos, companies that traditionally can sell their product because the dollar had been weak. The stronger the dollar it gets the tougher it becomes.
MALVEAUX: And what about the Bank of England? I know a lot of investors are looking at that for some signs of stability. What do you expect the Bank of England is going to do tomorrow in order to kind of calm some of the fears that we were hearing about?
VALLIERE: I think they'll announce that they'll provide liquidity if necessary. They don't want to see a route. And it's important to note, I think Janet Yellen and the Fed would say the same thing. I think one of the good stories in the U.S. is that interest rates are going to stay exceptionally low for quite some time. For people who want to refinance mortgages, rates will stay low probably through the end of the year if not longer.
MALVEAUX: And talk about the global markets. Were they totally unprepared for the leave result? Why did we see so many traders feel confident about betting that the UK would actually remain in the European Union?
VALLIERE: Well, I have a theory that the poll takers have been in a deep slump. It's not just, you know, cell phones versus landlines. I think a lot of people hold controversial views don't want to tell a stranger. And I think the poll takers got it wrong. And I think that may have implications for this fall in the U.S.
MALVEAUX: All right. Greg Valliere, thank you so much. VALLIERE: You bet.
MALVEAUX: Appreciate your perspective. And of course we'll be looking at the markets as they open and see what kind of rollercoaster ride we're on in the days ahead. Thank you so much.
VALLIERE: You bet.
Global security experts, they are worried about Britain's stunning decision to break up with the European Union. America and Britain have worked closely together for decades now ever since World War II to tackle conflicts around the world. Well, Britain's departure comes at a crucial time in the war against ISIS as well and Europe is still reeling after horrific terror attacks in Paris and Brussels.
Want to bring in Chris Hill, former U.S. ambassador to Iraq and South Korea.
Chris, good to see you as always. I read your paper calling for possible reforms of the European Union. It was a fascinating read. And the part -- in it you write, you say the only way to make Europe more than the sum of member state diplomacies is to make it into a real state. Multi-level governance may be just about satisfactory for managing mountains of butter, but it is barely suitable for making decisions about guns.
We know that the European Union is a lot more than just an economic body but also a body that determines the strength, the military strength, and the national security of so many alliances. Where does the European Union stand now in terms of what it can accomplish?
CHRISTOPHER HILL, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ: Well, I think like a lot of things it's going to be really very interesting. You know, for decades now, the European Union has talked about having a common security identity. And the issue has been how can the European Union develop something that doesn't appear to be in conflict with NATO because most of NATO is of course European countries.
So Britain has kind of led the way in trying to square this circle, to make sure the European Union can have some identity on security, but at the same time its members can be -- continue to be strong members of NATO. So now we'll have a situation where the Brits are sort of out of this EU process and will probably want to remain a very strong entity within NATO. I mean, after all, Britain has one of the most capable armies in the world. Third or fourth most capable army in the world.
So the Brits will really have a tough time here. And I think the whole European Union will have especially tough time because they have a lot of countries that really don't want to make the investments in capabilities that the Brits have often, you know, held their feet to the fire on. So it's going to be very difficult and very tough slog in the coming months and years. MALVEAUX: And Britain might be consumed with chaos, internal chaos
for years as it negotiates with this EU exit. During this time period, Britain is less likely to deal with Europe's other security challenges. What are some of the other states around it that are going to suffer as a result?
HILL: Well, Britain, again, has an extremely capable army. So when they sit in the councils of the European Union, they talk about things that some of these small countries need to do, these countries with sort of niche capabilities. And then they I think have been very key in making sure the European Union doesn't go in a way -- in a direction that weakens NATO. So now all that ends and we have to see how this emerging -- whether there's going to be a European Union security identity or not.
Now clearly many European countries want to make sure that if Germany is going to grow its military that grows its military within the context of the European Union and not just as a giant German force which by the way would worry a lot of Europeans.
[17:50:12] So the question of course is how is this going to come about. Will the French take a bigger role? You know, they have tried to do things with the Brits. Probably some of those things will continue. So I think there's a whole concern here and especially it comes at a time when the Russians have been really resurgent in terms of military capabilities in places like Ukraine. So I mean, we have kind of a major tectonic shift here and no one really knows how it's going to come out except to say I think that it's going to be rather chaotic in the months ahead.
MALVEAUX: All right. Chaotic is what the word so many people are using.
Ambassador Christopher Hill, thank you very much. Appreciate it. And of course we hope that a lot of people get on the other side of the chaos, but it is going to be a long and ugly process. Thank you so much, Ambassador. We appreciate the perspective.
We also have another story. We have eyes on West Virginia this weekend, where the country's worst flash flooding in years is blamed for the deaths of at least 24 people. That's up next.
MALVEAUX: It's a heartbreaking weekend in parts of West Virginia where receding floodwaters are letting people see for the first time what is left of their property. And in some cases, they are finding water, mud, structural damage so bad that their homes are just a total loss.
[17:55:08] And now 24 people are confirmed dead in the country's worst flash flooding in years.
CNN's Bynn Gingras is in White Sulphur Springs, West Virginia. The immediate life-threatening part of the flood over, but still a major emergency. BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's definitely a major emergency
still, Suzanne. And we have been here all day talking to people and the stories of survival are incredible.
I want to quickly just tell you about one. Just talked to a gentleman who said he was on a roof trapped with his family and literally used climbing rope, attached it to a phone pole near the roof of their house and they used a carabiner and slid across. That's how they escaped these floodwaters. I mean, that is the kind of stories we are hearing.
Let me show you some images we're seeing here. You can see this yellow structure here behind me. Well, that is part of a house that we're in front of right here. I mean this house is completely split in two. It's destroyed, obviously, and it fell off its foundation. I mean this is just incredible. We're looking into this home's living room.
Also the person that owns this home, he also was stuck on a roof and literally talked about how the floodwaters went from his ankles to above his kneecaps within a matter of four minutes. The woman who owns this home, she is about to have a baby. She was going to bring that baby home here, and now of course that's not possible.
Let me wrap it around here if we can, Wayne, because I want to show you this tree over here. You can probably tell it's a little burnt. Well, that is from that video that we have been seeing ever since those floodwaters started. That house that ignited in flames and then it was pushed down into the river, and it was floating in the river. That's where this all started. The foundation here is where that house once stood. And again, there w a family inside that home and we were with search teams as they are continuing to look for missing people.
This particular county had the most deaths related to this storm. And the scary thing about this, Suzanne, is that even while so many people are here, FEMA, the National Guard, the army, while they're all trying to do cleanup, we're expecting more flash flooding tomorrow. So really we don't know what to expect in the coming days but there are certainly at lot of work here, a lot of resilience, though, as people are trying to pick up their lives -- Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: Such a -- such a tragic story. I mean families losing their homes and coming back to things like that. And, of course, you know that young woman bringing her baby home.
Brynn, thank you so much. Excellent reporting in White Sulphur Springs, West Virginia. We certainly hope the best for that community.
Tomorrow the Supreme Court expected to rule on a landmark case that could change women's access to abortion across the country. Our own Chris Frates takes a look at what's at stake.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHRIS FRATES, CNN INVESTIGATIONS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Supreme Court is expected to rule tomorrow on the most important abortion case in almost two decades, a decision that could affect millions of women across the country.
At stake, the fate of a Texas law that requires abortion clinics to upgrade facility standards to more resemble hospitals and mandates that clinic doctors be able to admit patients to a local hospital. Supporters say the law makes abortions safer.
ANNA PAPROCKI, AMERICANS UNITED FOR LIFE: It's commonsense health and safety standards that are being challenged by the abortion industries because, you know, they put profits ahead of health and safety.
FRATES: But opponents --
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Stop the shame. Women's rights are not a game.
FRATES: They argue the restrictions are really aimed at putting abortion clinics out of business. Before the law there were about 40 abortion clinics in Texas. Opponents say the law would shutter 75 percent of them.
Candace Russell says wait times are now so long in Texas she had to fly to California to get an abortion.
CANDACE RUSSELL, OPPONENT OF THE LAW: Getting on a plane and flying 1500 miles away is just not an option for many, many of the women in our state.
FRATES: During oral arguments in March, Justice Ruth Vader Ginsburg said, "The focus must be on ones who are burdened. This is not a problem for the women who have means to travel."
The three women on the high court and Justice Stephen Bryer asked whether the law was medically necessary and if it places an undue burden on women. Texas said yes, the requirements are necessary and argued a majority of women in the state will live within 150 miles of an abortion clinic.
Texas' argument seemed to be better received by the court's conservative justices, who appears skeptical that the law was to blame for the clinic closures.
STEVE VLADECK, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The four liberals seemed quite intent on striking down the law. The three other conservatives willing to uphold it, and so Justice Kennedy really is the swing. Is he going to join with the liberals and provide a fifth vote for striking down the law or is he going to join with the conservatives and perhaps send the case back to the lower court?
MALVEAUX: And that was Chris Frates reporting.
If the high court is deadlocked in a 4-4 split, the lower court ruling will be upheld and the Texas law will be allowed to go into effect.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
MALVEAUX: You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Suzanne Malveaux in Atlanta. Breaking news now, a white nationalist rally in Sacramento descends into chaos. That is right. Ends with multiple people stabbed.