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Wolf

Rep. Pete Sessions Talks Dallas Shootings; Dallas Mayor Speaks at Prayer Service; Fiancee Talks Police Shooting Sean Bell 10 Years Ago; Effects of Dallas Shooting on Country. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired July 08, 2016 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00] REP. PETE SESSIONS, (D), TEXAS: They were with people that were expressing themselves about a problem. They were showing they not only understood it but they gave credence to that. We want officers to be able to have the empathy to be able to understand the needs not only of whether it is African-Americans or Hispanics or other people. We want them to be able to have the empathy. It turned into a tragedy, an ambush that was aimed at these officers. It became apparent that's what this was all about.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We are learning about the shooter, the sniper, this individual, Micah Johnson, no criminal record or no ties to terror. He did serve in the U.S. Army Reserves. He was activated and spent a year serving with the U.S. military in Afghanistan. What else have you learned about him and his motives?

SESSIONS: I don't know that we know a lot about his motive but there were direct discussions with him responding to the activities that had occurred perhaps in Louisiana and we believe for sure in Minnesota. He was motivated by those and felt some bit of remorse to that and wanted to take it out as he stated on these officers and on the community. I also heard he was recently married. For a man to get engaged like this simply reinforces, Wolf, why our country and our leaders of this country, instead of subscribing just one answer, we need to go back to our communities. In Dallas, the problems may be different that they are in Orlando or San Bernardino or Chicago. Community leaders need to lead now. We need to include, as we do in Dallas, because we are proud of who we are. We are a proud people, Wolf. We have had problems in the past but we attempt to overcome those through a dialogue and direct conversation and addressing the issue and hope it will not happen again.

Our churches will be full on Sunday with people seeking to offer spiritual support to these communities and the law enforcement communities and the families and the victims. We believe we can work through and overturn whatever impediments lie in the way by a direct conversation. We are going to do that.

BLITZER: One final question. I know you have to run. The police chief, David Brown, in Dallas, he just said they will find all the suspects that are involved. He said it was sophisticated, well planned. He seems to be suggesting that it wasn't just this one shooter that was involved. Have you been told there was a broader conspiracy here? SESSIONS: I believe what he is looking at is a number of what might

be pieces of information perhaps from cell phones or perhaps direct information in talking to the suspects. They've got to piece this together. But expect this weekend -- I fly back into Dallas and expect to get a more detailed briefing. Any speculation, until based upon a set of information that we can subscribe to, would not be correct. That, I believe, is where he is going, data and information that he learns as a rest of speaking to these other three people --

(CROSSTALK)

SESSIONS: -- and the cell phones or other means of communication.

BLITZER: He specifically said it was a well-planned operation. That's from the police chief, David Brown, in Dallas.

SESSIONS: He did. And they have these other three people in custody. The police count on their ability to interview these people to gain that -- real facts and the facts of the case. But you remember that they had a rather long dialogue with this Micah person, the perpetrator, the criminal who was one of the shooters. They had a very long dialogue with him and were able to ascertain much about him, much about his thinking, and much about his motives and planning. He even told, as we all know, the police, I placed other bombs and other things to cause harm to you directly, to cause there to be problems. Very dangerous, dangerous man.

BLITZER: It was chilling. He said he wanted to kill white people, especially white police officers.

Congressman Pete Sessions, of Texas, thank you very much. We'll stay in close touch with you.

SESSIONS: Wolf, thank you very much.

[13:35:00] BLITZER: Thank you.

The mayor of Dallas, Mike Rawlings, is now speaking at that vigil, that prayer service in Dallas. I want to listen in.

MIKE RAWLINGS, (D), DALLAS MAYOR: -- of peace and reconciliation. Today, we find ourselves here again, and this time, the terror has hit us right here in downtown Dallas, just a few blocks away, the worst attack on law enforcement in our city's history and the worst attack on law enforcement since 9/11. We have faced challenges in the decade since this square was built and we are facing challenges today. We must start if we are going to face those challenges with an attitude change, an attitude of humility, of gratitude, that this square was built on.

We are thankful for our lives. Others lost them last night. We are thankful for families, other families lost that last night. We are thankful for our city, yes. We are thankful for each other. That is why we are here today just hours after this act of evil.

We are here, this diverse group of leaders and elected officials, to honor the five police officers who have lost their lives, to pray for them and their fellow officers that are still alive and working for us.

We are here to face our challenges head on as Pastor Carter talked. We will not shy away from the very real fact that we as a city, as a state, as a nation, are struggling with racial issues. They continue to divide us. Yes, it is that word "race." We have to attack it head on.

I will tell you. this is on my generation of leaders. It is on our watch that we have allowed this to continue to fester, that we have led the next generation down a vicious path of rhetoric and actions that pit one against the other.

(APPLAUSE)

RAWLINGS: So I'm with you, Senator West. We have to change.

And I believe in dealing with this issue, we must step up our game and approach complicated issues in a different way. Race is complicated.

As F. Scott Fitzgerald said, "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in the mind at the same time and retain the ability to function." I think we can do that.

(APPLAUSE)

RAWLINGS: The question is, can we as citizens speak against the actions of a relatively few officers who blemish the reputation of their high calling and, at the same time, support and defend the 99 percent of officers that do their job professionally, honestly and bravely.

(APPLAUSE)

RAWLINGS: This is the men and women that were shot last night. I think we can. And I think we must.

Can we as a community truly and understand the pain that racial discrimination and the greatest sin in America, slavery, has created through history? Can we understand that? Yes, accept God's grace of forgiveness and put yesterday's battles aside to address and build a city in a country that Dr. King dreamt of. Can we do that?

(APPLAUSE)

RAWLINGS: Can we do it by being honest about today's shortcomings and building a society that truly gives all citizens what we all love, the opportunity for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I think we can.

(APPLAUSE)

RAWLINGS: Today is a prayer service. So I get to quote St. Paul. "In the end, three things remain, faith, hope, and love."

(APPLAUSE)

[13:40:13]RAWLINGS: We need all three today.

(APPLAUSE)

RAWLINGS: We must have faith in each other, in our institutions. We must have hope and believe that tomorrow will be better. And it will. And we must love one another, because if we don't, this cancer of separatism will kill this body.

(APPLAUSE)

RAWLINGS: But I choose those words and I believe this city will be better days because of the lives that were lost last night.

God bless Dallas. God bless Texas.

(APPLAUSE)

BLITZER: The Mayor of Dallas, Texas, Mike Rawlings, speaking emotionally at this prayer service. We'll stay and watch this.

We are getting some new information right now about the identity of one of the police officers killed in this sniper attack. This is the Dallas police officer, Patrick Zamaripa, a father of two, a U.S. Navy veteran, who had been deployed to Bahrain in the Persian Gulf as part of the Iraq war effort. He was killed in the ambush on police officers overnight. Our thoughts and prayers are with his family, friends and fellow officers.

This is the second police officer, who has now been identified as one of the victims of this ambush. Brent Thompson was the police officer from the DART, Dallas Area Rapid Transit system, also killed, 43 years old. Brent Thompson was recently married. He also served in Iraq and Afghanistan as a security officer for the U.S. military. Brent Thompson also killed in this horrific, horrific slaughter.

Just ahead, police-involved shooting death of an African-American man in New York hours before his wedding grabbed national attention. We will talk to Sean Bell's fiancee about the shootings in Louisiana and Minnesota, also, the slaughter of police officers in Dallas. Much more as our breaking news coverage continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[13:46:35] LORETTA LYNCH, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Now, after the events of this week, Americans across our country are feeling a sense of helplessness, of uncertainty and of fear. These feelings are understandable and justified. But the answer must not be violence. The answer is never violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The attorney general of the United States, Loretta lynch. Resetting our top story right now, the police in Dallas say Micah Xavier Johnson ambushed and massacred police officers. Police say the 25-year-old U.S. Army Reservist told them he wanted to kill white people, especially white police officers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID BROWN, CHIEF, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: There are no words to describe the atrocity that occurred to our city. All I know is that this must stop, this divisiveness between our police and our citizens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Before the recent police shooting deaths of two African- American men in Louisiana and Minnesota this week, there was the shooting death of Sean Bell, nearly 10 years ago. New York City police officer fired 50 times into his car early on the morning of his wedding. Two friends were wounded. Three detectives were charged in the shooting. They were all acquitted on all counts but were forced out of the NYPD. There was no gun in the car. But a judge ruled police had legitimate reason to believe someone in the car was armed based on conversations they heard at a nightclub and the fact that Bell tried to drive away from the police officers.

Joining us now is Nicole Paultre Bell. She was Bell's fiancee and took his name in his honor.

Nicole, thanks very much for joining us.

I want to get your unique perspective on what we have seen in Louisiana, Minnesota and now in Dallas. Your thoughts?

NICOLE PAULTRE BELL, FIANCEE OF SEAN BELL: Oh, man. First and foremost, I have to send my love, my support and all faith to all of the families of the men who lost their lives over these past few days, t officers who lost their lives as well as the victims of police violence who lost their lives. These families now have to learn how to mourn and how to pick up the pieces and how to now remain positive with so much violence that has happened. It is really just very unbelievable at this point. I've been fighting and advocating with many leaders and many elected officials for almost ten years. Every time another person

BLITZER: What advice do you have for the people who are suffering right now?

BELL: Well, the advice is, there I really no advice. The only thing you can do is seek your faith and surround yourself with positive people, and continue to remain positive. Violence cannot drive out violence. It only multiplies the problem. We have seen that before. And now, we have a community who's conflicted and broken, like we were in the pa, every time another person is killed. And the only way we're going to get what we all want is when those who commit crimes are held accountable, no matter who they are.

[13:50:12] BLITZER: Have you seen the video, Philando Castile's fiancee, Diamond Reynolds, as she live streamed her boyfriend dying in the aftermath. If you did, what did you think when you saw that?

BELL: It was completely horrific. I lost my fiance back in 2006, and I got a phone call. That was horrific. To actually be there and to see your loved one take their last breath when they were only doing what they were asked to do, it's -- it's even right now at this moment, I'm still lost for words. I watched the video and it's like reliving an ongoing nightmare.

BLITZER: When you heard that the shooter in Dallas said that he was motivated by, I guess he was motivated by hatred. He said he wanted to kill white people, especially white police officers. It's so shocking to hear that. That coming from the Dallas police chief, David Brown, who himself is an African-American, as you probably know. What did you think? What was your reaction when you heard that?

BELL: It's, you know, completely really disgusting at this point. We have seen so many people lose their lives. Regardless of color or race, it's a human life that's lost. I understand that communities are outraged because when police officers commit crimes, they're not held accountable. But there's absolutely, absolutely no room for more blood to be shed on these streets. There are children that are involved, and I'm sure those police officers, they were either sons or husbands. And they had families theirselves, but we have to remember, as a community member, we have to remember that if we continue to use guns, which are the reason, which is the cause, the problem, the reason why we're outraged, the reason why we're marching, the reason why we're rallying behind elected officials, if we continue to use those very same tools, we're going to be back at square one. More bloodshed, and at this time, it's really time for everyone to organize. First mourn our community, our nation has to heal. But we need to organize. There needs to be more conversation about improving police and community relations because it's only getting worse on both sides of the fence. And everyone needs justice at this point, everyone.

BLITZER: Nicole Paultre Bell, thank you so much for joining us. Our condolences, obviously, to you as well. Thank you very much.

BELL: Thank you.

BLITZER: Let's talk more about the shooting, the effects it could have throughout the country.

I want to bring in CNN law enforcement analyst, former FBI assistant director, Tom Fuentes; and our national security commentator, the former House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers. Also joining us, our CNN political commentator, former executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus, Angela Rye.

Tom, let me start with you.

You heard the news this hour, the Dallas police chief, David Brown, saying they're going to bring other suspects, whoever they may be, to justice. That's priority number one. Right now, he says this was a well planned operation. TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, that tells me that

when they looked at the subject that was killed last night, they looked at his either computers or his cell phone or whatever, that there were indications that he was talking to someone else, planning this, possibly, with other people, and that he wasn't all by himself as he told the police.

BLITZER: Mike Rogers, before you served in Congress, you were an FBI agent yourself. How do you stop a killer like this who U.S. Army Reservist, served in Afghanistan. Obviously, he knew how to fire a weapon. He had a lot of ammunition. He goes up high and starts targeting police officers. How do you deal with that?

MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: Well, if he was the only one, that is nearly impossible, if he hadn't had any other communication. I think clearly, I agree with Tom, he clearly had some communication with someone. There are some eyewitness accounts of people with camouflage bags getting and exiting in a hurry. The police chief indicated today he believes there's someone else engaged in this. That's how you get it. It's an intelligence-based investigation. You have to be connected to the community, and the community has to want to stop crime as well. That's the only way you're going to stop an event like this.

BLITZER: Angela, I know you're the former executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus. When you see what's going on -- I want to get your thoughts right now -- you have unique perspective on what happened in Louisiana, what happened in Minnesota, now what's happened in Dallas. We heard from members of the Congressional Black Caucus earlier today. They are clearly outraged. What needs to be done?

ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, several things, Wolf. I think we have to stop looking at gun violence like it's a partisan issue. Human blood was shed. White people, Latino people, black people, the two black men who we talked about all week, Alton Sterling and, of course, Philando Castile. We have to deal with these issues at a policy level. We cannot afford any longer to pretend like these issues will joust go away. Background checks and s it wouldn't have caught probably this shooter or the shooter in Orlando. The reality is there are far too many loopholes and every barrier can be knocked down because we pretend these things will disappear, that people will rely on their better nature, and we can't do that anymore. You heard loud and clear from the CBC members today and you saw them during the sit-in just a week and a half ago that this must end. That means that Congress must, in fact, act. We cannot do this alone. People are outraged. They're frustrated. They're hopeless, and this is the type of thing that happens, hopelessness.

[13:56:00] BLITZER: You know, Congressman Mike Rogers, you served in Congress for a long time. There's a real divide there. There's no movement, at least there hasn't been in years, in terms of greater gun restrictions, for example, on assault-type weapons. That's what the Congressional Black Caucus wants. A lot of Democrats want it. But a lot of Republicans are resisting.

ROGERS: And I think there are some compromise bills, one coming out of the Senate. They're going to find a solution to it.

BLITZER: You think so?

ROGERS: I do, except here's my concern with this. We are all fooling ourselves if we think that this one highly charged political issue is going to stop this problem. We have a rhetoric problem in this country. We have heated up on everything instant that happens to a point on both sides, by the way, where it's driving people. This person says he was driven to do this and then conspired with others to do this. That is a bigger problem. That is a much bigger problem.

Each individual of these law enforcement cases should be judged individually. There's a 21 percent increase -- excuse me -- 31 percent increase in police officer shootings, meaning police officers are killed at a 30 percent higher rate this year than they were over last year. That tells you that there is a bigger problem. And rhetoric matters.

So we're going to have to start dealing with real problems in these communities. The fact that the graduation rates are hovering around 50 percent, there's no job opportunities, those are the real problems breeding what I think is hate and discontent. And then you do an issue like this, sprinkle on some hot rhetoric, you have somebody climbing up in a tower and shooting people.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Angela, go ahead.

RYE: Sorry, a couple things. I'm sure we don't have time to graduation rates right now at a time like this is horrible. So let me just first say that the man actually said the exact opposite of what former Congressman Rogers said. He said he acted alone. He said that he was upset about Black Lives Matter and he said he wanted to kill white people. I'm not endorsing any of that.

But what I will tell you is to act as if this plan who said he was upset about Black Lives Matter was acting on behalf of an organization, a movement that is simply trying to insure that black lives, black people survive in this country. You brought up numbers of death in communities and the number of people who are shooting police. Let me just drop this number on you. 559. That's the number so far of people who have been shot and killed by police officers this year.

I am horribly sorry and heartbroken about what happened in Dallas, but I would be remiss if I acted like black lives didn't matter today because they mattered last night and they mattered before. And that's what you see from the families of the people who lost their husbands and sons and boyfriends for no reason. I will not act as if it's a political issue. It is not. Our lives matter. It is important. And at this point, I'm livid and frustrated by the reduction of those lives to graduation rates and community issues --

BLITZER: All right --

RYE: -- that can be solved not only by people like you, Mr. Rogers, but members of the Hill who have to take this on.

ROGERS: I'm not on the Hill anymore.

RYE: I said -- yeah --

ROGERS: But I will tell you, if we don't deal the problems in these communities, you can talk about guns all day long. The problem is here we have bigger sets of problems in urban America all across the country. It's not a black issue. It's not a white issue.

RYE: Don't victim blame.

ROGERS: And I -- nobody is saying that black lives don't matter. I think that candidly is a political slogan in a year to try to divide Americans.

RYE: No it is not.

ROGERS: What we have to do is deal with the circumstances in each one of these cases. Deal with education in police departments. All of that is really important, cultural sensitivity in police departments, especially in urban America, very important. But so are all of the other problems. Lack of opportunity in America is literally leading to the deaths of American citizens, and I don't care what color they are. If we don't deal with those issues, all of this won't matter.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: All right --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Angela, very quickly.

RYE: Deemed inherently violent is the problem. You cannot deem black people as inherently violent. That is the problem. Deal with that rhetoric.

ROGERS: Nobody says that.

RYE: A lot of people say that.

BLITZER: We're going to continue this conversation. There's a lot to assess.

Angela, thank you very much.

Mike Rogers, Tom Fuentes, thanks to you as well.

I have to leave it right now.

But our special coverage continues right here on CNN.