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Five Officers Who Lost Their Lives During The Texas Police Ambush; Americans Of All Races In All Backgrounds Are Also Rightly Saddened And Angered About The Deaths Of Alton Sterling And Philando Castile And About The Larger Persistent Problem Of African-Americans And Latinos Being Treated Differently In Our Criminal Justice System; Officer Jeronimo Yanez Shot And Killed Philando Castile Inside His Vehicle. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired July 09, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:13] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: It is top of the hour. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington in for Poppy Harlow today.

We begin with what President Obama is calling quote "a tough, hard, and depressing week here in America." It is a week to spend seeing two black men shot and killed in the hands of police. Their final moments captured on just horrifying videos for the world to witness. Then just days later the country watched in real time as a shooter carefully callously picked off police in Dallas, kicking five officers, wounding another seven. The senseless killings have sparked protests across what is now a very raw mournful and some ways exhausted nation.

In Atlanta, 10,000 people took to the streets at one point blocking a freeway. And in Rochester New York, 74 protesters were arrested. President Obama who is abroad at the NATO summit in Europe addressed the violence and tension pervading the country today. Here are his comments, they came just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to begin this press conference with events back home. This has been a tough week first and foremost for families who have been killed but also for the entire American family.

In my call yesterday to attorney general Loretta Lynch, I stressed that the justice department and our federal government should continue to do everything that we can to assist the investigation in Dallas and to support the police and the city of Dallas as they deal with this tragedy.

In my call to Chief Brown, I commended him for outstanding leadership during an extremely challenging time and asked him to convey to all of the officers and families how the American people are grieving with them and that we stand with them. I will have the opportunity to convey our condolences and show our solidarity when I visit Dallas in a few days.

But before I do, let me make some very brief points. First of all as painful as this week has been, I firmly believe that America is not as divided as some have suggested. Americans of all races and all backgrounds are rightly outraged by the inexcusable attacks on police, whether it's in Dallas or any place else. That includes protesters. It includes family members who have grave concerns about police conduct. They have said that this is unacceptable, there's no division there.

And Americans of all races in all backgrounds are also rightly saddened and angered about the deaths of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile and about the larger persistent problem of African-Americans and Latinos being treated differently in our criminal justice system. So there is sorrow, there is anger. There is confusion about next steps. But there's unity in recognizing that this is not how we want our communities to operate. This is not who we want to be as Americans. And that serves as the basis for us being able to move forward in a constructive and positive way. So we cannot let the actions of a few define all of us. The commented individual who carried out those attacks in Dallas is no more representative of African-Americans than the shooter in Charleston was representative of white Americans. Or the shooter in Orlando or San Bernardino were representative of Muslim Americans.

They don't speak for us. That's not who we are. One of the things that gives me hope this week is actually seeing how the overwhelming majority of Americans have reacted with empathy and understanding. We have seen police continue to reach out to communities that they serve all across the country and show incredible professionalism as they are protecting protesters. We have seen activists and grassroots groups who expressed concern about police shootings but are also adamant in their support of the Dallas police department which is particularly appropriate because the Dallas police department is a great example of a department that has taken the issue of police shootings seriously and has engaged in an approach that not only brought down their murder rates but also drastically reduced complaints around police misconduct.

That's the spirit that we all need to embrace. That's the spirit I want to build on. It's one of the reasons why next week using the task force that we had set up after Ferguson, but also building on it and inviting both police and law enforcement and community activists and civil rights leaders, bringing them together to the White House. I want to start moving on constructive actions that are actually going to make a difference because that is what all Americans want.

So when we start suggesting that somehow there's this enormous polarization and we are back to the situation in the '60s, it's just not true. You are not seeing riots and you are not seeing police going after people who are protesting peacefully. You have seen almost uniformly peaceful protests and you have seen uniformly police handling those protests with professionalism.

As so, as tough as hard as depressing as the loss of life was this week, we have got a foundation to build on. We just have to have confidence that we can build on those better angels of our nature. And we have to make sure that all of us step back and do some reflection and make sure that the rhetoric that we engage in is constructive and not destructive. That we are not painting anybody with an overly broad brush. That we are not constantly thinking the worst in other people rather than the best. If we do that, I'm confident we'll continue to make progress.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[15:08:45] SCIUTTO: There you saw the president there in Warsaw at the summit for NATO, an organization designed to keep Europe safe, speaking about violence here at home in America. But a trying there to deliver a more positive message, saying the division not as great as perhaps some fear today.

To talk more about this, I'm joined by CNN law enforcement analyst, Cedric Alexander who is public safety director for DeKalb County, Georgia police department. CNN political commentator Marc Lamont Hill, he is author of the book "Nobody casualties of America's war on the vulnerable" CNN and political commentator, Scottie Nell Hughes.

Cedric, if I could begin with you there. You heard the president, his essential message, the United States not as divided as some have suggested and saying this is not the 60s. You don't have cops attacking protesters with dogs on the streets. Do you agree with him?

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, I do. I mean, we certainly have made tremendous gains in that country but that does not mean and you did not hear the president say that we still don't have challenges in front of us. And I agree with him when he mentioned the fact that a few does not define the many. But if you look back over this country historically as it relates to police and community, there has been strained relationships. We can go all the way back to slavery up to Jim Crow up to civil rights and even come into today. We have made tremendous progress but that does not mean by any stretch there's still work that needs to be done in the local communities and across this country --

[15:10:17] SCIUTTO: That's a fair point. And it is. I think we all have to be conscious of that. I mean, after all, you have a black American who is in president of the United States. In 1968 that would have seemed a Hollywood scenario.

But the fact is today, there's tremendous fear and some of this is that it's more visible, right. I mean, these shootings, they play out because all of us have one of these in our pocket, right. We see these things as they happen. And I just want - I want to get your thoughts and also I want to get Martin, Scottie Nell Hughes to jump in. But Cedric, why don't you go ahead and I'll let others jump in.

ALEXANDER: Well, clearly, if you talk specifically law enforcement and talking specifically to criminal justice system, yes there's still a lot of work to be done. But you also have black police administrators, you have black police captains and major Hispanic and gays. We are all throughout the judicial system if you will. They have been tremendous gains, gains that we can note that weren't relevant just 20 years ago. But when it comes to those relationships in our community still with communities of color that are often times very much challenged and police regardless police are black or white, we still have work to do. We still got to build those relationships and build that trust and legitimacy. And that is what that task force report was about that you heard the president mention. That is what it is about. There's 89 recommendations in there that Dallas police department even took hold of --

SCIUTTO: That was a - one of the ironies was that was a police department very forward leaning on a lot of changes.

ALEXANDER: Absolutely.

SCIUTTO: In fairness Cedric, I want Scottie and Marc Lamont Hill to join in, perhaps.

Marc, you will forgive me for saying ladies first.

Scottie, do you take that message as a fair one from the president that listen, you know, we have real divisions but we're not a nation at civil war?

SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Absolutely. And in fairness, I have heard Cedric all day and said that Cedric has done an amazing job talking about how I think there's issues on both sides on this, not just a clear cut, clear defined issue.

You know, as (INAUDIBLE) report came out and said that 50 percent of Americans say and that's across all demographics, both minorities, think that we still have race problems within this country that are worse off than eight years ago. And you are actually seeing more of an action, maybe a few years back people -- the race problem existed, but now people are actually acting out on them.

And Cedric, you made a great point earlier this morning and I could not agree with more. I think in a lot of these cases when there's wrong doing by a police officers and there are a few bad apples, I think it is important for people to sit back and let's hear the case. Let's actually hear the whole story. Let's get all of the facts before we actually have actions. Because as we have seen this week, actions are only reverting to more actions. And unfortunately, none of them have been positive. If we can actually get everybody to take a deep breath. Let's hear everything. Let's put a face (INAUDIBLE) and then react. I think that might actually serve a better than what we've seen this week.

SCIUTTO: Marc, you heard Scottie say there, race relations have gotten worse in the last eight years. Of course, those eight years when Barack Obama was president. I want to give you a chance to respond to that.

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Well, I'm not sure they have gotten worse as much as we put a spotlight on it now partly because the African-American is the president now and not the white American. But I think there's also difference of economic relations and social relations that make this more obvious. It would be like me saying that police community relations have gotten worse over the last eight years, they haven't. Camera phone technology simply has gotten better. We have more access to those relationships which creates a tension in America when you have to witness state files, when they have to witness white supremacy play out on the ground every day. So I think that is the difference here.

And the other thing I wanted to say is that I think we can't frame this as a problem of bad apples. I think that's the problem of President Obama's analysis. I think that's the problem of my dear colleagues here respectfully. It's not about a few bad apples in the police department. Yes, there are some rogue cops that do crazy things like we saw in Charleston (INAUDIBLE). But most police officers I don't think are not bad apples. And I think we agree on that. I think the system itself is broken. And so, even well intentioned cops who aren't bad apples are still forced to buy into broken windows policing, are still force to engage in stop and frisk are still force to policing ways that make law enforcement turned into occupying forces in our community rather than people trying to make us whole or safe or better. And because of that we end up thinking if we can just get rid of the bad apples and we will fix this thing. No, we need to fix the entire system. The entire system is broken.

HUGHES: But here's my question that I have --

SCIUTTO: Quick thought, Scottie.

HUGHES: Real quick. What is your solution, though? Do you just want the police to just pull back completely? I mean, you're sitting there saying not do stop and frisk. It is across the board. It is all - everybody expose it. If they are suspect of doing trouble, they should be questioned on it. It's not necessarily based on their color in some of these cases. And actually, the facts don't back it up that there are more whites and more Hispanics that have been killed by officers than blacks. And yet you don't see us having this reaction and calling it race. I think it's about a respect --

[15:15:14] SCIUTTO: To be fair Scottie, the numbers is proportional -- for the sake of the audience, doing these numbers last week, black man two and a half times more likely to be shot by a cop than the white man. So in the numbers there is as we see in the court system, a black man or woman more likely to get the death penalty for the same crime. When you compare apples to apples there is a disadvantage there.

Cedric, can you please --.

HUGHES: That's the court system. But then you also have to bring in that law enforcement police are more likely to be shot by a black man by 18.5 percent than anything else. I mean, we can sit there and use the numbers over and over but you cannot justify this sort of action right now just saying it's against one race and that's why I say it is a few bad apples. You can't say that.

HILL: That's actually not what I said but you completely misrepresented a bunch of numbers. You said that people aren't getting stopped by race. But if you look at stop and frisk in New York, which is sort of the national case study, race was the primary determining factor for stop question and frisk. And it showed that most people who were frisked didn't commit a crime, didn't have guns, didn't have drugs. I mean, it absolutely was a race based thing. In fact, the Judge Simon ruled it out because of the fact that it was driven by race. Also --

HUGHES: If you think it's not doing any problems then what's the problem with it? Why is this an issue if there's not crime being performed --

SCIUTTO: I hate to wrap it up, but it's only because we're running out of time for this segment. But this is a conversation we are going to continue throughout the afternoon and frankly, coming days and weeks.

Cedric, Marc and Scottie, thanks so much for just the beginning of what we need. It's a difficult conversation but we all got to do our best to keep it calm. Thanks very much.

Coming up this hour, a city in mourning as investigators piece together exactly how the Dallas ambush unfolded. These are live pictures of a memorial outside police headquarters there. We have been watching it grow by hour, by the day. We will review some of the emotion at personal messages left there.

Plus, protests in cities across the country, police departments on edge. How can America heal this rift between communities and cops? They are part of the same community. We will discuss.

And later you just heard from the president but what about the two people running for his office to replace him this November, how Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are responding to this week's events?

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:20:37] SCIUTTO: In several major American city today such as Philadelphia, here in Washington, D.C. as well, people furious over last week's police shootings of two black men are keeping up pressure, keeping up volume, demanding real change.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands up, don't shoot! Hands up! Don't shoot!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: At San Francisco there, similar groups of protesters facing similar groups of police Friday night in Atlanta, in Baltimore, in Detroit. The message from protesters in all of these cities is simply end the violence, referring not only to the police altercations in Minnesota, Louisiana but also the horrific killing of police officers that followed by what is still believe to be a lone gunman, that of course in Dallas late Thursday night. Much more in a minute about the investigation and background of the

man who open fire on those police officers. But with much more important, the victims, the people who lost their lives and the ones who were badly hurt as well.

CNN's Jean Casarez has some of their stories.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are reminded of the power of faith and uniqueness that happens when we call on a higher power.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: An emotional prayer vigil in the city of Dallas as the community mourns the loss of five police officers. Among the victims, 43-year-old Brent Thompson, a 7-year veteran of the Dallas area rapid transit police, the father and grandfather was originally from Corsicana, Texas. Thompson traveled to and survived the most dangerous parts of the world helping bring justice to those who didn't have it. According to lengthen page, Thompson was chief of operations for a private military contractor in Iraq from 2004 through 2008.

GARY THOMAS, WORKED WITH OFFICER BRENT THOMPSON: He was a dedicated officer, dedicated to the safety of Americans all over the world certainly.

CASAREZ: 32-year-old Patrick Zamarippa also survived the odds of serving overseas only to be killed protecting his hometown. The Dallas police officer was deployed to the Middle East as part of the Iraq war effort. Just this week, he tweeted out his love for our country. His brother Dustin tweeting, I love you brother, couldn't be prouder, we'll see you again.

40-year-old Michael Krol always wanted to be an officer and fulfilled his dream when he joined the Dallas police force in 2008.

Also killed, Dallas police officer Lorne Ahrens, a 14-year veteran of the Dallas police department according to media reports.

And Dallas police Officer Michael Smith. Smith joined the department in 1989 according to his sister who spoke to CNN affiliate KDFM. Five officers lost their lives, another seven wounded including officer Misty McBride, her family rushing to the hospital to be by her side.

HUNTER MCBRIDE, DAUGHTER: That she can live on to tomorrow. I'm just glad that she is alive really.

CASAREZ: Alive but according to her father requiring surgery.

RICHARD MCBRIDE, FATHER: She was shot in the arm and broke her shoulder and she shot in the abdomen and it went in one side and out the other side.

CASAREZ: Still, the McBrides know they are the lucky ones, Hunter telling her mother --

H. MCBRIDE: I love you and I'm glad you're here.

CASAREZ: Jean Casarez, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: There were mothers and were fathers, sisters and brothers. So sad to see that, families reeling from this.

As we go to break, I want to read you some of the message these people have left outside the Dallas police headquarters you are seeing right there, where this large memorial around a police cruiser, almost can't see it under those flowers, continues to grow.

One of the messages says quote "you will not be forgotten. We will never forget your sacrifice."

Another one says dearest officers, we heart you and will never forget you. Rest in eternal peace.

One more, I stand by the blue. Thank you all for everything. You are my hero. #backtoblue.

Those are some messages. Those are some of faces of the officers who lost their lives. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:47] SCIUTTO: As Dallas and state of Texas and the country mourns the loss of five fallen police officers investigators are digging into the shooter's background trying to piece together what happened, maybe look for warning signs as to what may have led to this. Shocked friends describe Micah Xavier Johnson as a jokester, a fun loving guy and proud army veteran who they say loved his country. But he is also being described by some as reclusive, a loner. Police say Johnson became infuriated and wanted to kill white police officers. When investigators searched Johnson's home, they found a pile of bomb making material.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is tracking the investigation in Dallas. He has been outside his home there, I know.

Ed, what's the latest today? And police still sticking to the idea it was a lone shooter.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They have been. You know, throughout the early moments of this attack and then shortly the day after, there was some talk as to whether or not there might have been more than one suspect. But federal law enforcement agencies and the local law enforcement agencies here in Dallas now saying that they do believe that Micah Johnson acted alone. And what is interesting is that those investigators were at Micah Johnson's home in the suburb here of Dallas about 1:00 in morning as they were engaged in the standoff with him in downtown Dallas. They had already descended on his home. They were there for several hours. And as you mentioned alluded to what they found was rather disturbing. Weapons, ammunition, bomb-making material as well as a journal where

he apparently wrote down combat techniques so detectives are poring through that journal to get more into the mindset of this killer and what unraveled here. So that's one of the things they are taking a much closer look at here in downtown Dallas. There are still several blocks that are cordoned off as they continue to piece together this crime scene in tracking movements of Micah Johnson just trying to determine exactly thousand one person was able to ambush of many officers in such a quick fashion -- Jim.

[15:30:52] SCIUTTO: All right, Ed, hold him in standoff for hours. Ed, I know there are investigators looking into his military record six years in the army. I understand he learned that he was accused of sexual harassment while an army reservist. What are the details?

LAVANDERA: This was an interesting case. It wasn't a criminal case filed against him. Remember, Dallas police here have been saying for several days that there was no red flags in terms of a criminal history with Micah Johnson, but this was an administrative procedure that took in the U.S. army. Micah Johnson was accused of sexual harassment. In the case the accuser -- this is coming from the lawyer that represented him in this case, the accuser asked that Micah Johnson be treated for mental issues and also that she receive a protective custody order. According to the lawyer, both issues were granted but that was obviously another tidbit of information that you know investigators are taking a closer look at as they try to piece together this killer's mindset.

SCIUTTO: Ed, one last detail. You have been in Dallas for a number of days now. I'm curious, how close was this shooting, the site of the shooting from Dealy Plaza where President Kennedy was shot all those years ago. I understand it was quite close initially?

LAVANDERA: It is. It is, you know, obviously, that is one of the big scars on here, I believe, in Dallas a long time. So it is always been kind of the -- that spot and still a place that were thousands of people flock to every year. And where this shooting took place. This is just two or three blocks to the east of Dealy Plaza. So, as you walk through that area, just beyond one of the public buildings there is you enter into Dealy Plaza. So obviously this is a chapter in this city's history that will never be forgotten as is, you know, that close connection there to what happened in Dealy Plaza back in 1963.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Sad to have another event like that there to mark the city.

Ed Lavandera, thanks very much.

In the wake of this Dallas tragedy, what are police departments doing to make their officers safer but also feel safer? And how can they bridge the divide between police and communities they are protecting? That's next.

You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:36:22] SCIUTTO: A military veteran goes on a murderous rampage killing five police officers. The nation still struggling to comprehend exactly what led up to this tragedy in Dallas. And African-American sniper hunted down white cops as they protected black lives matter protesters rallying against recent police killings of young black men.

Now, police across the U.S. are taking new security precautions. How can police and citizens black and white come together and learn to trust again and address the root causes of this?

I want to bring our panel in. CNN law enforcement analyst Cedric Alexander. He is public safety director for DeKalb county, Georgia police department. Commentator Marc Lamont Hill, he is author of "Nobody, casualties of America's war on the Vulnerable, from Ferguson and Flint and beyond." Former St. Louis police officer Redditt Hudson. He is cofounder of the National Officers Coalition for accountability and our legal analyst Joey Jackson.

Cedric, we were speaking about this earlier. In the wake of the Dallas ambush, how do you make officers feel I guess its two things, its safety but also a sense of not being under assault. I've been getting a lot of messages, text messages, phone calls, Facebook postings from police officers I know, even some of my family who say they feel under assault. They feel criticized. They feel no one is respecting them for the jobs they do or give them credit for the jobs they do. So you kind of two issues to handle, don't you? That kind of lack of sense of lack of satisfaction but also the sense of, you know, genuine fear for their safety?

ALEXANDER: Well, let me tell you what police officers are saying to you quite frankly across the country saying to all of us, we are human beings too, we have feelings and we have emotions. And they go out and they do the very best job that they can do when they are trained and trained well and of course things happen and controversy occurs.

But these are human beings. And right now to make our offices across this country feel safe, is that the communities in which they see, I asked that those communities, I asked that those police officers in spite of what we just saw in Baton Rouge and in spite of what we just saw in Minnesota, those two events are going to be investigated. They are going to be investigated by outside entities and at some point some resolve is to what occurred is going to come to some factual light.

But in the meantime in the inner room we have to help take care of our police officers. We got to be supportive of them. What you see happening in Dallas today is a good example of police and community coming together because there is no public safety without police. And there's no community without police and community working well together. They are partners. So this is a very painful and hurtful time for all of us but we have to be able to find a way to bridge those broken gaps and continue to move towards trying to advance policing and advance in create that type of integrity that we want between police and community there who wanted to interact. SCIUTTO: Listen. I want to get everybody to pipe in, perhaps I'll go

to you next, and just get a police perspective. Because what you have is sort of a loss of trust on both sides. I'm not saying this is across the board but you hear policemen saying we feel criticized and we feel people don't trust us. We feel that they are blaming us unduly for the mistakes of a few. Then you have people on the other side, particularly black Americans who feel singled out by police. So you have a loss of trust on both sides. Where do we begin to address this?

[15:40:02] ALEXANDER: Well, you begin right where you are. You always begin right where you are. This is a tough, complex subject. This divide in this discourse is not new to America. It's been going on for a long time.

SCIUTTO: No question.

ALEXANDER: You know, Mark Lamont said something in the last segment that he is very right about. This is not just about two or three bad apple, this is about a larger systemic problem that exists but it's all not police alone. It is a criminal justice system that is also challenged and needs to be looked at. Because even if you look at some of the laws that are written, those laws attach more to certain groups and populations than they do to other. That in and of itself is a systemic issue. And you know who has to be the first responder? I do. Those thousand men and women who are out there trying to do a good job. We don't write the law, we enforce it. You have to support your police. We got to support them. And police as well need the support and will support their communities.

SCIUTTO: Guys, jump in as you go here.

Maybe Joey, I'll go to you because the issue raised about biases in the criminal justice system.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, it is a real problem. We have to back up a bit. Police are thwarted a great deal of discretion. And that's where it begins. Police can make arrests. They cannot make arrests. They can go after people who have broken taillights. They can decide to ignore issues with respect to broken taillights, et cetera.

But when you look at it, there has to be only a co-existing relationship, Jim, between the police and community, it needs to be a relationship that thrives. We need police. We need police out there on the beat to protect us, to serve us and make us safe. The disconnect occurs when you have communities who believe that there's an over policing here. There's a lack of sensitivity here. There's a problem here that needs to be addressed.

And so on the one hand, yes, we need to educate our youths in terms of dealing with the police, how to act during police encounters, but we have to educate the community of the police in terms of dealing with those communities, having respect for the communities and making sure that the communities feel that they can trust the police. So it has to be a co-existing relationship. And yes, in terms of the system there needs to be some systemic change in it, of course, but I think what you have to deal with first is the first line. I mean, the police are the face of it. And if you exercise that discretion in a way that allows people to feel respected and allows people to feel that police are not really targeting them but are working with them, I think you begin to address the problem.

SCIUTTO: Redditt, Marc, please jump in. Redditt, perhaps you first.

REDDITT HUDSON, CO-FOUNDER, NATIONAL OFFICERS COALITION FOR ACCOUNTABILITY: When it goes to repairing the relationship between police and communities across this country, especially black communities, let me make it as simple as I can. It's about accountability. When those five officers lost their lives in Dallas, we mourned them. We responded the way that human beings would to the tragedy that we saw unfold in front of us. And the community felt that way when we saw that happen. We need police officers to respond that way when Eric Garner is murdered on the corner and Alton Sterling is murdered in Baton Rouge and Philando Castile is shot to death with a 4-year-old child in the back of his car and his fiancee next to him, while lawfully obeying the commands of the officer, when are we as law enforcement people going to challenge that and mourn those horrific losses as well?

Until we see ourselves as fully and equally human and coming from the same community, we're at a deficit. This criminal justice system in United States is operated at a moral deficit for our lifetimes and before. It has to do with institutional racism, which is an uncomfortable topic for us to talk about but we have to come to grips with it in a changing nation and we can do it. And I think for me personally it starts with me and my colleagues at the national coalition of law enforcement and justice reform and accountability and law enforcement people across the country holding our peers accountable when they abuse the rights, human rights, civil right and civil liberties of the people we sworn to serve.

SCIUTTO: Marc Lamont Hill, please jump in.

HILL: Yes. I think again it's important, and I agree with everything just said. I think it's important though to frame the conversation in a way that speaks to the accurate history. This is not a question of how do we repair the relationship between communities and police, how do we build trust back? The trust was never there. And that trust was never deserved. There's never been moment in American history where black people have been relieved to see police show up. And there has never been a moment whereas black men or women, poor, middle class or rich that when you see blue lights behind you getting pulled over, you don't have anxiety.

SCIUTTO: But hasn't it been getting better? You heard the president say it is not the '60s, is it your view it's as bad as it always has been.

HILL: I think that could become a straw man. My argument isn't that 60s are identical to the 2016s. My argument, though, is that the role that police play in our communities hasn't change. The sense of terror that people feeling our communities hasn't shifted. Of course, this isn't the 1960s but that doesn't change the fact that police do serve a role as occupying forces in our community. As Cedric said, there is disparate law on the books that is directly linked to race. There is also a different application of the law that's directly related to race when it comes to this. So, as Joey said related to thinks like broken taillights or other forms of policing. The system itself id broken. The laws themselves are not fair. The system itself is unjust. It's not just the police because, again, the police are just the one piece of this. The entire system is broken -- bail system, whether it is public offenders as we go down the list and none of it works.

[15:45:40] SCIUTTO: Guys, I hate to interrupt this but it is a continuing conversation both this afternoon and in the coming days and weeks.

Cedric, Marc, Redditt, Joey, thanks very much. We are going to keep this up. We got to keep it up as a country.

Straight ahead, Philando Castile's death at the hands of a police officer was one of the week's tragic event, just one of them, setting off a national conversation about race and policing in America as you just heard there. Coming up, what the officer's attorney is now saying about the case.

You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:49:45] SCIUTTO: A lawyer from Minnesota officer is fighting back against claims that race played a part in the shooting death of an African-American earlier this week. Officer Jeronimo Yanez shot and killed Philando Castile inside his vehicle. You may remember it. Castile's fiancee live streamed the aftermath of that shooting as Castile lay dying by her side.

CNN's Rosa Flores joins us live now from St. Paul, Minnesota.

So Rosa, Yanez's attorney says that video does not tell the entire story?

[15:50:18] ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, his attorney is saying that it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the presence of a gun. Now let me get to that statement in just a moment because I want to set the scene for you here.

I'm live just outside the governor's mansion. And you can see demonstrators hyped me. This location has become a presence for demonstrators. From people who want to come and embrace and hug and just ask for justice since Philando Castile was shot and killed.

Now we know the name of the police officer, like you mentioned, Jeronimo Yanez. And now we are hearing from the attorney for the first time, him saying that the Yanez is cooperating with the state agency in charge of this particular case. And then also in the statement that he issued to my colleague Brynn Gingras saying quote "this tragic event have nothing to do with race and everything to do with the presence of a gun. Regrettably the use of force became necessary in reaching to the actions of a driver of a stopped vehicle. Officer Yanez is deeply saddened for the family and love ones of Philando Castile."

Now we are also learning a little more about this police officer from an annual report from that police department that he works or we looked through it. He is named by name for being part of community outreach and volunteering with organizations like cub scouts and Shop for a cop and for a national officer association.

Now, from authorities, we have learned that he has four years of force experience. And also that he is on paid administrative leave. But here is the thing. This investigation is in the hands of a state agency. The governor that lives in this house that you see behind me is asking for the U.S. DOJ to get involved. The U.S. DOJ is saying that it is only monitoring and that they are also helping the state agency that's involved.

But Jim, you and I know the people that you see behind me that have been demonstrating, Castile's family, they are asking for justice, and they are hoping that there is an independent U.S. DOJ investigation that's parallel to this investigation that's going on - Jim.

SCIUTTO: Rosa Flores there in St. Paul, Minnesota. Thanks very much.

We will be right back.

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[15:56:05] SCIUTTO: We want to take a moment to remember the five officers who lost their lives during the Texas police ambush.

Brent Thompson. He was a Dallas area rapid transit officer, also a newlywed. He was recently remarried to a fellow transit officer. Thompson trained police officers in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Lorne Ahrens was a 14-year veteran of the Dallas police department. He worked for the Los Angeles sheriff's department for ten years before that.

Michael Smith, also a Dallas police officer. He had served with if force for 27 years.

Michael Krol's life-long dream was to be a police officer. His uncle says he worked hard to get that job in Dallas.

Officer Patrick Zamarripa was a Navy veteran. He was a father of two.

Please remember all of them. We'll be right back.

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