Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Obama: U.S. Not as Divided as Some Suggest; Police Believe Gunman Worked Alone; Procession of Officer Killed in Dallas to Funeral Home; Shootings Test Clinton and Trump on Leadership; Shootings Test Clinton, Trump on Leadership; Protesters Take Over Minneapolis Park; Using a Robot to Kill; Murdered Officers Remembered. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired July 09, 2016 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:14] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

America not as divided as some may think. These were the hopeful words from President Obama today after a week marred by violence, grieving families and video simply too graphic for many to watch. You are looking now at live pictures of Air Force one as it lands in Spain. The President having just left Warsaw for a NATO meeting. He is going to be coming home to the U.S. early, a day early, in fact. And he'll go down to visit Dallas. This of course at a time when the country seems divided so much on matters of race, on gun control, most importantly, how to address it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: We cannot let the actions of a few define all of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: That was the President speaking at the NATO Summit in Poland earlier today reflecting on two more killings of young black men at the hands of police this week. And then following it very quickly, the sniper attack in Dallas that left five police officers dead, seven others wounded, some still recovering. We now know the President will travel to Texas, to Dallas, in the next few days facing tough questions about what his own legacy will be on race.

CNN's Michelle Kosinski is traveling with the President. She filed this report.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: President Obama has now left Warsaw. And he wrapped up his days at the NATO Summit here with a press conference that largely focused on events in the United States. This is the third time in as many days that we've heard him speaking on the subject. And he didn't want to put a title on that. He didn't want to call what happened in Dallas domestic terrorism or a hate crime. He instead made his focus unity. As some might say, this was optimistic. But he downplayed racial divisions in America. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: Americans of all races and all backgrounds are also rightly saddened and angered about the deaths of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile, and about the larger persistent problem of African-Americans and Latinos being treated differently in our criminal justice system. So there is sorrow. There is anger. There is confusion about next steps. But there's unity in recognizing that this is not how we want our communities to operate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSINSKI: The President warned against divisive rhetoric saying that the shooter in Dallas no more represented the views of most Black Americans than the Charleston shooter did those of whites or the Orlando shooter of Muslims. But the fact that we are talking about so many mass shootings in America in such quick succession brings us to the issue that the President has called the most frustrating of his presidency, guns.

It's interesting that almost in the same breath he talked about there being so many guns in America and so many high powered weapons. But at the same time he mentioned that crime -- violent crime -- has been way down over the past several decades. And the point that the White House generally makes is that when you do have high powered weapons getting into the wrong hands, that's when you have a high number of casualties. Here's some of what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: It is important to keep in perspective that in places like New York or Los Angeles or Dallas you have seen huge drops in the murder rates. And that's a testimony to smarter policing. And there are a range of other factors that have contributed to that. So -- so that should not -- we should never be satisfied when any innocent person is being killed, but that should not be something that is driving our anxieties.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSINSKI: President Obama was also asked about his legacy and how he viewed it on the issues of race, guns, as well as other subjects. And he conceded that, no, he hasn't always made the progress that he has wanted to make. That change comes slowly. And when he starts to do things like propose practical solutions, it doesn't happen overnight. But he said that's okay. He described what he did as planting seeds, and that somebody down the road will sit under the shade of the tree from those seeds that he planted.

Michelle Kosinski, CNN, Warsaw.

SCIUTTO: Michelle Kosinski traveling with the President in several major American cities today. Philadelphia, here in Washington, D.C., people furious at last week's police shootings of two black men keeping up the pressure, keeping up the volume demanding real change. This is happening right now in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. South Florida chapters of the group's Black Lives movement demonstrating at Broward County Courthouse there. The group social media post urging everyone participating in the March to, quote, "remain peaceful."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(PROTESTERS CHANTING HANDS UP, DON'T SHOOT! HANDS UP, DON'T SHOOT! HANDS UP, DON'T SHOOT! HANDS UP, DON'T SHOOT!)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:05:33] SCIUTTO: That there was in San Francisco Friday night. Similar groups of protesters facing similar groups of police. All over the country, Atlanta, Baltimore, Detroit.

(PROTESTERS CHANTING)

Tense encounters there at times, but the message in all these places simply end the violence, referring not only to the fatal police altercations in Minnesota and Louisiana that we saw this week. But also the horrific killing of police officers by what police still believe to have been a lone gunman in Dallas on Thursday.

Straight to Dallas right now, CNN's Martin Savidge is at police headquarters downtown. CNN's Stephanie Elam, she is at Baylor Hospital. Martin, if I could start with you, police very careful about putting together a profile of this man who they still believe worked alone. What have they learned about him now? And is any of it helpful?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they are learning a lot. And whether it's helpful that's still to be revealed by the investigators. Of course as you point out, the key here is of course authorities want to figure out did anyone help him. They believe that this was the work of tragically, one individual. But what they want to make sure is, was there anyone who helped plan, in other words co- conspirators. May have been only one person carrying to the act but were there others who helped in some way to carry out the act before it happened.

So, that's purpose of the investigation. Why they are also still combing through the crime scene that still exists in the heart of downtown right now. Talking about the military record which Micah Johnson had, the gunman here, he served in the Army Reserves and for a time was deployed overseas in Afghanistan. Well, CNN has learned during that deployment in 2014 he was accused of a female soldier of sexual harassment. And apparently the charge was serious enough that it actually cut short his deployment and he was sent back to the United States.

Now, eventually he was given an honorable discharge from the army. But that is still something that stands out on his record. How or if it played out in any way to his actions that followed last Thursday night, no one can draw that kind of a straight line logic but this are the sort of things that investigators are looking at here to find out what was going on in the mind of the attacker -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: One thing that struck me is one thing the killer and one of his victims have in common is both of them had served in Afghanistan. Just remarkable.

Martin Savidge, thank you. Stephanie Elam, I know you have been outside the hospital there where people are still recovering. What's the latest on the status of the injured?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we can tell you to start off with that we do know that there are two police officers, D.A.R.T. police officers, that remain in the hospital at this time. One of them is Elmer Cannon, and the other is Misty McBride. We know the rest of the surviving police officers, we believe, have been released from the hospital at this time. When you take a look at that and how awful it was that he had 12 police officers shot, it's actually quite remarkable that that many have already been released from the hospital at this time -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, thanks for being there in Dallas. Martin, Stephanie, we are going to be coming back to you.

Coming up, what started as a hashtag has turned into a rallying cry. We'll take a closer look at the Black Lives Matter Movement and the impact that the shootings in Dallas could have on it.

And as we go to break we want to show you the outpouring of support for the Dallas Police Department as it mourns those five fallen police officers. Flowers, notes, balloon covering those police cruisers. You can barely make them out in there now. Heartbroken officers getting hugs from random strangers showing their thanks.

You are watching CNN's live coverage and I want to show you pictures here now. This is President Obama arriving now in Spain. Continuing his European trip but we should note he is going to get one day early. He is going to come back to the U.S. tomorrow and then later this week visit Dallas cutting that trip short there for those crucial NATO meetings to come show his support for the people of Dallas. That is seem arriving there now in Madrid, Spain. You are watching CNN's special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:12:51] SCIUTTO: I want to show you live pictures now. This is aerials of the procession for Officer Brent Thompson to a funeral home, one of the five officers killed in that ambush in Dallas, Texas. You can see he has got a police escort there, those police motorcycles in front. A cruiser, a long procession as one of the fallen is taken away. The Dallas ambush shattered an otherwise peaceful Black Lives Matter protest, the movement born after the 2012 shooting death of Florida teen Trayvon Martin there is his face there.

After Martin, the death of African-Americans at the hands of police gave rise to more protests, many more protests. And then you had other incidents, like Eric Garner in New York, Michael Brown in Ferguson where the movement really begin to take hold. Today Michael Brown's mother penned this opinion column in the "New York Times." And part of it, she said, quote, "Sometimes it seems like the only thing we can do in response to police brutality that my son and so many other black boys and men have suffered is to pray for black lives. Yes they matter, but has that changed anything? What is going to be different this time?"

SCIUTTO: That's the key question. The question on my mind. I'm sure it's on the question of the minds of many people watching today. Let's bring in our panel.

We have Daunasia Yancey, she is a founder and organizer of the Black Lives Matter movement in Boston. Charles Blow, New York Times opinion columnist, law enforcement Art Roderick, is a former assistant director of the U.S. Marshal's service as well as Marc Lamont Hill, he's author of "Nobody: Casualties of America's War on the Vulnerable, from Ferguson to Flint and Beyond."

Daunasia, thanks so much for joining us. It is a very basic question. I asked the panel a few minutes ago the same question because I've been in this position here or in the field covering shootings, acts of violence like this too many times. People at home watching have seen and witnessed them so many times. And they wonder what changed. And then you wait for the next one, almost. What's going to be different this time?

DAUNASIA YANCEY, FOUNDER/LEAD ORGANIZER, BLACK LIVES MATTER, BOSTON: What's different is people are waking up. We are seeing -- we have seen this movement grow in the past several years and we've seen people really take action, take to the streets, take to the voting booth and really fight back and bring this call for dignity and respect for black lives.

SCIUTTO: Do you -- I just want to get you to respond and I'm going to go to the panel as well, Daunasia -- there have been -- I've seen it on Twitter, I don't like to quote that because there is a lot of angry stuff on Twitter. But you saw a Trump supporter blame Hillary Clinton, even blame President Obama for in effect sparking the violence against police in Dallas by if not supporting the Black Lives Matter movement, you know, expressing sympathy, empathy, et cetera. What's your response to that really alarming allegation?

YANCEY: It's absurd. The Black Lives Matter movement has only called for a de-escalation of violence, not an escalation off it. And so the idea that this lone gunman was somehow acting on behalf of an entire movement of hundreds of thousands of people is absurd. And that's not -- we reject that completely.

SCIUTTO: Art Roderick, you served a lot of time in law enforcement. In effect, you hear the argument on both sides. Just as the Dallas shooter doesn't represent the Black Lives Matter movement, the police officers who shot and killed black men without cause, they don't represent all of law enforcement. Is that a premise that you think -- I don't want to say both sides because we're all Americans here, but that both groups or all of us can agree on?

ART RODERICK, FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, U.S. MARSHALS OFFICE: Absolutely. I mean you've got 800,000 law enforcement officers in this country. And we pick out half a dozen, to a dozen police officers. Now, we also have to remember, Jim, who has occurred over here the last two days? Not only did we have Dallas. But we had another five or six ambushes of police officers that occurred in different states in different parts of the country.

And that's another key part. We've got to stop this rhetoric and calm down and come together and talk about this as opposed to -- as opposed to this rhetoric fomenting some of these individuals to go out and ambush law enforcement officers. So, I think there is enough blame to go around on all sides.

[17:17:09] SCIUTTO: Charles --

MARC LAMONT HILL, PROFESSOR, MOREHOUSE COLLEGE: I disagree.

SCIUTTO: I'm sorry. Marc, you go ahead. You have a thought.

HILL: I disagree entirely. First of all it's just statistically and incorrectly inaccurate to say that we are talking about six or 12 police officers. There have been hundreds of people who have been killed by police officers. This isn't a handful of police officers. This is a structural issue and a structural question. We are not equal sides, we are not opposite sides of the same coin here. You know, to say that, you know, one individual is sort of an outlier, doesn't represent the Black Lives Matter movement makes sense because the question wasn't a member of the Black Lives Matter movement and they weren't operating at the behest of the Black Lives Matter movement.

But the problem with police officers who are shooting people is yes, they don't represent all officers in their desire to shoot people but they are part of an institution and organization that at its core is flawed and its core needs to be repaired. And so, yes, I don't blame every police officer for a rogue shoot but I do hold all police officers accountable for the problems that we see. And then lastly to say that this language is what creates this violent shootings is simply untrue.

We have had police resistance through for last eight years, Sean Bell, Trayvon Martin, Oscar Graham -- we can go down the list. And these last eight years have actually had fewer police shootings than the previous eight years. In fact the two safest years for police officers in terms of being killed in the line of duty, have been in the Obama administration, not Bush, not Clinton, not Reagan, not the other Bush. So, there is just no evidence for the claims that have being made here. That's what I wanted to point out.

SCIUTTO: Charles, I mean --

RODERICK: you have to agree that the percentage is very low.

HILL: The percentage of what?

RODERICK: The percentage of the shootings are very low.

SCIUTTO: They aren't, Art. But here's the thing and I want to put this to Charles and I want everybody else to pipe in. Because you have this kind of bad apples argument that comes out on both sides. And listen, it's just the actions of a few. What Marc is saying at least from the police perspective, is this is a systemic thing, it's an institutional things. It's not just that you have a handful police officers who act beyond their -- beyond what they should be doing. Charles, what's your response? Is it a systemic problem when we speak about police? And I want to get to the other issue as well.

CHARLES BLOW, OP-ED COLUMNIST, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": It is both systemic, but also systemic in the historical lens of it. I mean, you have to understand how police even developed in this country. There are no police in the American constitution -- the American constitution, right? So, the police in the South grew out of the slave patrols. In the North they grew out of monied people wanting to protect their interests. In all cases, the police grew out of a desire to control bodies and to control capital. The idea that police have been able to grow into a better, more responsive, more community- oriented force over centuries is impressive and what we need to be moving forward.

But the vestiges of what it always was kind of remains because it is a cultural artifact that is embedded in all of us as a culture. And we are the people who supply the bodies that are the police, right? So that -- we have to understand that in the historical frame in order to understand what is happening now. And I think that it is a really, really dangerous mistake for people to continue to demonize the Black Lives Matter movement to say why haven't they been able to change things, what will happen this time?

You have to understand this is a relatively young movement, right. The movements that have really changed and shaped history are generational movements, right? If you look at the civil rights movement, that's a generational change. If you look at the women's rights movement, generational change. If you look at the gay rights movement, generational change. You have to give the Black Lives Matter movement time to grow, time to form itself, time to -- time to be what it wants to be, which is -- which is a force of change to rectify a system. And I am old enough to have experienced Black Nationalist movements. The Black Lives Matter movement -- America should be thankful. They are not. That they are not saying let's separate ourselves.

SCIUTTO: Right, it's not the Black Panthers, it's not --

BLOW: No. They are saying we have a fundamental faith that we can fix America. And that is a beautiful American thing.

SCIUTTO: It starts on a peaceful premise. And Daunasia, I want you to comment on that. But I have to give Art a chance to respond to -- a portrayal in effect of law enforcement is being at its core somehow historically biased against blacks, you served a lot of time inside. Is that -- was that your training? Your experience? You view? Was that the view of your fellow officers?

RODERICK: Absolutely not. I think, obviously, that does reside in some officers. But I think the majority -- I mean we've heard the chief speak. We've heard the deputy chief speak. And I think they are right on that 95, 98 percent of law enforcement officers are good people that go out and do this job every single day without bias, without prejudice. Now, yes, we do have some officers, as in every profession, that are bad -- go beyond bad apples that are biased. But we have to weed those out. And I think what's occurring in Minneapolis and what is occurring in Baton Rouge, and having these cases investigated by the Department of Justice is going to weed out individuals like that.

[17:22:36] SCIUTTO: Daunasia, I want to give you a chance because you are with the Black Lives Matter movement.

YANCEY: Right.

SCIUTTO: What do you do next? How do you respond to this?

YANCEY: Well, I do want to respond to that because when we say, you know, we have to weed out these bad apples that's not what the police are doing. When these shootings occur, they protect each other, they cover up for each other, they allow for -- time to go by before officers are interviewed or brought in for questioning. And they cover up for each other. And we see that these cases go on. People are not indicted. People are not convicted with video evidence that the entire world can see. And as looking at America, and American police, and asking why don't you do something? Why don't you actually weed those cops out? Why don't you actually tell us who the bad apples are if that is the case.

SCIUTTO: Folks, it's the beginning of a long -- it's not the beginning, because this conversation started a long time ago. I just hope as an American it goes somewhere. And I appreciate your contribution today. Daunasia Yancey, Charles Blow, Art Roderick, Marc Lamont Hill, let's wish us all luck on this going forward.

Coming up, the political conventions just weeks away. And with America hopelessly divided on race and gun control -- let's not say hopelessly but certainly worry somely. What will Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump do? We'll look at the different tones they're striking after the shootings in Dallas. That story right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:27:422] SCIUTTO: Three horrifying shootings in three days are showcasing perhaps the very worst of America, exposing deep cracks in both race and police relations issues. The next president certainly will need to face head on. Both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump canceled campaign appearances on Friday and instead took time to address the violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We need to be bringing people together. And I've said on the campaign trail repeatedly, we need more love and kindness. And I know that's not usually what presidential candidates say. But I believe it. And I'm going to be speaking about it from now all the way into the White House and beyond.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Too many Americans are living in terrible poverty and violence. We need jobs. And we're going to produce those jobs. Racial divisions have gotten worse, not better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Joining me now, Emily Tisch Sussman, she's a Democratic strategist, a Hillary Clinton supporter. And Boris Epshteyn, he is a Republican strategist a surrogate for Donald Trump.

Boris, I have to start with you because you hear the Republican presumptive nominee there saying race relations have gotten worse, not better. Keep in mind he has one who's called Mexican immigrants rapists and murderers. He suggested a ban based purely on religion. Can he make an argument that he has made race relations better based on those public statements?

BORIS EPSHTEYN, DONALD TRUMP SURROGATE: Well, Jim, that was a completely biased lead in to the question. I do not appreciate --

SCIUTTO: But these are public and repeated stances of the Republican presidential nominee.

EPSHTEYN: The shootings that are going on and the -- that's taken place has nothing to do with the statements that you are referencing. We're talking about --

SCIUTTO: We're talking about, he was talking about race relations, so I'm asking whether these contributed positively to that conversation?

EPSHTEYN: Cities are decimated economically. This at its based is an economic issue. The inner cities of America are absolutely destroyed. We need investment in those inner cities and we need to rebuild them. That's what we need to be talking about. Not comments Donald Trump made about a judge or you may disagree with him, mass media may disagree with. There were 60 shootings in Chicago over July 4th weekend.

SCIUTTO: It's certainly about an economic message.

[17:30:00] But if we're talking about relations in a mixed society here, the candidate -- and I'm asking you because you support the candidate, he has made very bold and repetitive statements about, well, the ethnicity of a judge, in fact, the judge's parents, a ban based on religion, the makeup of immigrants from Mexico who there is --

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: There's a huge variety of them from Mexico --

(CROSSTALK)

EPSHTEYN: Illegal immigrants.

SCIUTTO: I'm asking how that is rectified with the statement there that race relations are getting worse.

EPSHTEYN: We can take those one by one. Statements on illegal immigrants have no bearing on what we have going on here with these shootings, one. Statements on the judge, the fact that Donald Trump believed he was getting an unfair treatment by this judge, have nothing to do with what we see here going on, which, again, is our inner cities being decimated, having no money in them, people not having jobs and resorting to violence. We need to be talking about -- Jim, this is not a constructive conversation. What we need to be talking about is what is this country going to do for the inner cities? You saw the difference right there. Hillary Clinton is talking about love and kindness. Donald Trump is talking about investment into inner cities, bringing the inner cities back up, and making sure that people have a choice, people have a future, have a light at the end of the tunnel. And then we'll see less this violence. That's an absolutely logical solution to this problem. We are seeing it in Detroit. Dan Gilbert is investing in Detroit, Mike Ilitch (ph) is investing in Detroit, business leaders who are revitalizing a destroyed city. That's what Donald trump will do for America.

SCIUTTO: Emily, two questions. I want you to answer the issue about the economic factor here. But let's start with the president. Here's a president, who is coming to the end of eight years. And part of his legacy was meant to be uniting the country. And there are Republicans who say -- and you heard it from Donald Trump -- that race relations have gotten worse during his presidency. Do you believe the president is partly responsible for that?

EMILY TISCH SUSSMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST & HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: Look, I think he is certainly doing his best. And I think he is certainly doing his part. I think over the past week, all Americans have felt a lot of sadness, and a lot of grief, and a lot of frustration. People don't -- we don't want to live in this kind of society. I think the difference between the violence of the last week and even the last couple of months and years is that there's two real things that have become present. One is normalizing hate speech. We have just accepted that it is part of the same conversation. I know that Boris will disagree with me on this. But the fact it happens the same week that a candidate even has to say whether or not his statements are anti-Semitic, to say whether or not he admires Saddam Hussein, which, by the way, in both of those instances, he said his staff was wrong to disavow them. He actually does support those statements. That we have to say that, this is normalizing hate speech. That is a huge part of the problem.

The second big part of the problem is the escalation. We have escalated in every circumstance with easy access to guns, large guns. I don't know that these cops were acting in any -- the fact that cops are shooting people who are unarmed is insane. That should not be a part of our normal society but it is at this point. But the fact that they are acting -- even if they are acting from purely from a place of fear, why are they so fearful? Are they fearful because people have guns, because they think they have guns? The fact they think they could be out there and they have to respond in such a violent and violence-first way is hugely problematic.

SCIUTTO: Boris, do you believe that guns are part of this debate. You mentioned the economic side, spreading opportunity. What about gun control?

EPSHTEYN: Let me answer Emily's comment. Donald Trump has no bearings on these shootings. He was not running for president when Ferguson happened, when the Trayvon Martin shooting happened, Baltimore, New York. To use this against Donald Trump is politically convenient for the Democrats but has no place whatsoever. Let's put that to the side.

As far as what happened in Baton Rouge and Minnesota, let's remember both of these victims were armed. They were not unarmed. They were armed. Emily is incorrect in saying that.

As far as the discussion on guns, sadly, it is not the guns that are the problem. Again, the problem is what is happening in inner cities that is having people resort to violent activities, resort to crime. Whether or not there was gun control would not have prevented the 60- plus shootings in Chicago on July 4th. We need to go to the root of the problem. The root of the problem is the fact there is not a light at the end of the tunnel for a lot of folks in America and we need to respond to that. And Donald Trump will get that done.

SCIUTTO: Emily, I'll give you a chance to respond.

TISCH SUSSMAN: We can say it's all economics. I think that has sort of a black-on-black crime underpinning to racist underpinning to it.

(CROSSTALK)

EPSHTEYN: How is that racist? It's the truth.

TISCH SUSSMAN: If there is a lone wolf and somebody is black and commits a crime, you automatically -- or Muslim and commits a crime, you automatically assume it is the entire people. But recognizing there are serious economic problems in this country and there are disproportionately impacting people of color, but to say that's the only problem and not to acknowledge there's still structural racism we are dealing with, and we can't deal with it unless we name it, that I think is disingenuous.

SCIUTTO: Emily and Boris, thanks very much. It is a difficult issue, a lot to cram into a short conversation. It is a conversation we will continue over the weeks and months.

Appreciate you coming on.

EPHSTEYN: Thank you.

[17:35:09] SCIUTTO: Dallas police say it was one of the shootings that made the gunman want to kill white people, especially white police officers. Coming up, what we are now hearing from the attorney representing the Minnesota officer who shot and killed a black man during a traffic stop. That one was broadcast to the world over social media.

You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Black Lives Matter protesters have taken to a park in Minneapolis in response to the killing of Philando Castile by a police officer doing a traffic stop. Officer Jeronimo Yanez shot and killed Castile as he was sitting inside his vehicle. Castile's fiancee live-streamed the aftermath of that shooting.

CNN's Rosa Flores joins us from the park in Minnesota.

What's the mood of the protesters there today?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's heartfelt. Hearts are heavy. It's very -- it's a very difficult time for this community, Jim, as you might imagine.

Last time you and I spoke, a lot of these people were in front of the governor's mansion. They moved here to the park in Minneapolis.

Now, a lot of these members of this community have been doing -- holding protests for the Black Lives Matter movement for a while now.

Jason Sole, with the NAACP of Minneapolis, joins me now.

Jason, one of the new developments today is reaction from the police officer involved in this shooting. And so I wanted to ask you for your reaction, your response to what the officer and his attorney had to say.

JASON SOLE, NAACP, MINNEAPOLIS: I disagree. I disagree. I believe that it has to do with race. Because when you are connected to somebody or feel you value someone you don't just assassinate them like that. You don't kill them on the spot like and just execute them. When you connect with someone and say, oh, this is a person I value them, there is a pause there. There is a moment of clarity where it's like, oh, I have to act appropriately. And that didn't happen. I do believe it has to do with race. Automatically, people look at me different and demonize me just because of the color of my skin.

[17:40:20] FLORES: Just to remind our viewers of what this attorney said, I'm going to read what the attorney said on behalf of Officer Yanez, "This tragic incident had nothing to do with race and had everything to do with the presence of a gun. Regrettably, the use of force became necessary in reacting to the actions of the driver of the stopped vehicle. Officer Yanez is deeply saddened for the family and loved ones of Philando Castile."

Now, talk to me about this community and how this community is trying to heal and trying to also make change at the same time.

SOLE: We don't know if we can heal. We come together. We share our stories. We love each other. We tell people beautiful things and we give them a chance to highlight the things they want to see happen in society. That's why we didn't name this event a NAACP event or anything else. We want the community to be able to speak. We don't know if we can heal. I was trying to heal from Alton Sterling's shooting, and then to hear this in my backyard, I don't know if I will heal. I still walk as a black man in my society. Even though I have credentials and degrees, that doesn't help me. I still tell an officer, hey, I'm a criminal justice educator, I still might end up dying.

FLORES: I have to ask you because some of the protesters and demonstrators yesterday were talking about, OK, we're here, but what can we do? How does change actually happen? I know those are questions they pose to people like you. What can they do?

SOLE: Well, we can actually get people fired who don't deserve to be in there. We can acknowledge there's a racist history and a racist present. And we've got to actually get rid of the bad cops. But more importantly, we've got to do something on the legislative end because cops get away with it majority of the time. We are not seeing prosecutions when we die. Ultimately, if they were afraid of us, I mean, it wouldn't look the way it looked. Because I think most of the people who are killed -- most law enforcement officials who are killed are killed by white men. The fear should be there, not on us. You have to change the policies, you have to call it out, and you have to make the good cops talk about the bad cops, which we're not seeing. It is a culture of cruelty in the police departments. That has to be changed.

FLORES: Jason, thank you so much.

SOLE: Thank you.

FLORES: And, Jim, like he mentioned, it is a big problem. It's not solved by solving one particular part of the problem. It's going to take a lot of people working together -- Jim?

SCIUTTO: No question. We've been trying to talk about it all afternoon. A lot of things have to be said. A lot of things have to be done.

Rosa Flores, thank you.

Coming up, Dallas police say they had no other option. A look at the decision to use a robot equipped with a bomb to take out that sniper who shot 12 officers. Does this set a dangerous precedence?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:46:40] SCIUTTO: The standoff between Dallas police and the man who killed five officers came to an end after what may be a first for law enforcement, the use of a robot carrying a bomb.

CNN's George Howell looks at how robots are being used by police to keep men and women in uniform safe.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is the O.D.'s robot, going towards the IED.

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Remote-controlled robots have been used by the U.S. military in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to defuse explosive devices.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: D1000. (EXPLETIVE).

HOWELL: Here's a scene from the movie "The Hurt Locker".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Oh, look at that.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Nice 1-5-5, huh?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOWELL: In recent years, some local police departments have invested in the technology to investigate suspicious packages and cargo.

But in Dallas, a potential first in the United States, the delivery of an explosive device by a robot that was used to kill the police- shooting suspect holed up in a garage.

(GUNSHOTS)

HOWELL: Negotiations to end the standoff had gone on for hours.

DAVID BROWN, CHIEF, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: We saw no other option but to use our bomb robot and place a device on its extension for it to detonate where the suspect was. Other options would have exposed our officers to grave danger.

HOWELL: Police have not released the details of their tactic, what type of robot was used, information about the bomb, and how it was detonated, or if the robot was even present at the time of the explosion.

UNIDENTIFIED ENDEAVOR ROBOTICS EMPLOYEE: It could be picking up evidence. He could be picking up potential explosive devices.

HOWELL: Endeavor Robotics says it has sold robots to several police departments in the Dallas area but wasn't sure if their device was used Thursday night.

UNIDENTIFIED ENDEAVOR ROBOTICS EMPLOYEE: Our whole purpose is to keep people at a safe distance from hazardous conditions. We've seen that in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan with the IED threats.

HOWELL: Robots are expensive, with some costing more than 100,000, but local police departments say the technology is well worth the cost.

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Before, a bomb technician had to climb into a suit, go down and take care of business, where now we can use the robotic system. Much better. (END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Coming up, we pay tribute to the victims of the Dallas shootings.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:53:03] SCIUTTO: Police in Dallas are learning all they can about the man they believe worked alone when he opened fire on that protest crowd thursday night. He shot 12 police officers, two civilians, five of those officers lost their lives.

CNN's Jean Casarez has their stories.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're reminded of the power of faith and the uniqueness that happens when we call on a higher power.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An emotional prayer vigil in the city of Dallas as the community mourns the loss of five police officers.

Among the victims, 43-year-old Brent Thompson, a seven-year veteran of the Dallas Area Rapid Transit Police. The father and grandfather was originally from Corsicana, Texas. Thompson traveled to and survived the most dangerous parts of the world, helping bring justice to those who didn't have it. According to his LinkedIn page, Thompson was chief of operations for a private military contractor in Iraq, from 2004 to 2008.

GRAY THOMAS, WORKED WITH OFFICER BRENT THOMPSON: He was a dedicated officer, dedicated to the safety of Americans all over the world, certainly.

CASAREZ: 32-year-old Patrick Zambranoripa (ph) also survived the odds of serving overseas, only to be killed protecting his hometown. The Dallas police officer was deployed to the Middle East as part of the Iraq war effort. Just this week, he tweeted out his love for our country. His brother, Dustin, tweeting, "Love you, brother, couldn't be prouder. We'll see you again"

40-year-old Michael Kroll (ph) always wanted to be an officer and fulfilled his dream when he joined the Dallas force in 2008.

Also, killed, Dallas police officer, Lorne Ahrens (ph), a 24-year veteran of the Dallas Police Department, according to media reports.

And Dallas police officer, Michael Smith. Smith joined the department in 1989, according to his sister, who spoke to CNN affiliate, KFDM.

Five officers lost their lives, another seven wounded, including Officer Misty McBride. Her family rushing to the hospital to be by her side.

HUNTER MCBRIDE, DAUGHTER OF MISTY MCBRIDE: That she can live on to tomorrow, and that I'm just glad that she's alive, really.

[17:55:12] CASAREZ: Alive, but according to her father, requiring surgery.

RICHARD MCBRIDE, FATHER OF MISTY MCBRIDE: She was shot in the arm and it broke her shoulder. And she was shot in the abdomen, and it went in one side, and out the other side.

CASAREZ: Still, the McBrides know they are the lucky ones. Hunter telling her mother --

HUNTER MCBRIDE: I love you. And that I'm glad you're here.

CASAREZ: Jean Casarez, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERRI FRANKLIN: CNN HERO: Dogs that are old very, very often are the first to be euthanized. Because literally, they just don't think the dog is adoptable because of its age. We're proving them wrong.

She's adopted!

(CHEERING)

FRANKLIN: Old dogs have so much to give. They have changed people's lives with their gratitude, with their tenderness. There's a soulfulness with older dogs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: You can nominate someone you think deserves to be a 2016 "CNN Hero" at CNNheroes.com.

I'm Jim Sciutto, in Washington. Thank you for joining us on this difficult day for our country.

"Smerconish" is next.

I'll be back at 7:00 p.m. eastern with CNN special coverage of the Dallas police shootings. Thanks for watching. See you again soon.