Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Protesters Face Off with Police in Phoenix; Dallas Sniper Kills 5 Police Officers, Wounds 7; South Korea: North Korea Launches Ballistic Missile; Presidential Candidates React to Shooting. Aired 2- 3a ET

Aired July 09, 2016 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:00:46] MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Welcome to our viewers here in the U.S. and around the world. I'm Michael Holmes at the CNN Center in Atlanta.

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: I'm George Howell live in Dallas, Texas this hour.

And behind me you see the Dallas Police Department Headquarters and a memorial that has been set up. Two different police cars, in fact. One police car representing DART, the officer that was killed, one police car representing the Dallas police department, for the other officers killed.

And you see the flowers, the balloons there, messages to remember these five police officers who were killed in the line of duty, officers who risked their lives that day for protesters on the streets. Keep in mind, seven other officers were wound when a sniper opened fire on a peaceful protest Thursday night. Two civilians were also wounded.

Authorities believe the gunman, 25-year-old Micah Xavier Johnson, a former U.S. Army reservist, was the lone shooter. They say they found bomb-making materials in his home and that there was a handwritten manifesto, several in fact, on how to shoot and how to keep moving.

We want to go now to Phoenix, Arizona where we're watching images there of protest that's have been playing out. If we can show you some of these live images in Phoenix. You can see police lined up there, the crowds dispersing. We know police earlier were using pepper spry on those crowds.

I'd like to bring in reporter Laura Gomez live on the phone with us from Phoenix. She's a reporter for -- there in Arizona, and has been live on the scene tweeting.

Laura, what have you seen and heard?

LAURA GOMEZ, REPORTER AZCENTRAL.COM (via telephone): Yes, I can hear you. It's cutting off a little bit. Yes, so, hello. Good night. I'm here in Phoenix, in downtown

Phoenix. Police right now are blocking access to one of the main highways here, the I-10. The protests started around 8:00 p.m. Mountain Time. It's lasted about three hours now.

I think from what I can see most of the people have gone. There's still a few people blocking the street. But police have already announced their final warning for people to get out of the street. They're telling people that they need to go home and they need to go home peacefully.

HOWELL: Laura, talk to us about how the police are handling this. We see this image right now. Do you see those officers as well lined up across that street?

GOMEZ: Yes, yes. I see police. I heard some sounds like they were deploying some more pepper spray. The people are running away right now. You know, some of them are throwing back rocks. But I mean, there doesn't seem to be much confrontation at this point.

I think the police are trying to get people to go home. There's a police helicopter flying overhead, you know, that people should go home peacefully. But, you know, some people are still very upset.

HOWELL: Laura, explain to us the situation a few hours earlier. We see the street cleared now, but, you know, I remember looking at these images, and there were a lot more people out there.

GOMEZ: Yes. At around 10:00 p.m., so about an hour ago, there were a lot of people, you know, definitely over 100. I don't know the count for sure. But they were marching, singing, holding up signs.

You know, it was just a regular peaceful but passionate rally. And all of a sudden -- I was interviewing a woman who was actually a week overdue in her pregnancy, and she was talking to me, you know, how she was thinking of going home, and then all of a sudden, people just started running the opposite direction to where it was everybody was heading.

And there was a moment of panic. Some people, you know, they lost their phone, they lost their glasses, they lost their friends, you know, people were calling out the names of their friends, sort of like in a state of shock and panic.

[02:05:03] Nobody knew what was happening. I didn't know what was happening. I was several feet away from the front of the rally. So I didn't even -- I didn't know what was going on. But then we realized, you know, the police barricades had apparently deployed some pepper spray and people were running away from that.

HOWELL: Laura Gomez on the line for us. A reporter with "AZ Central" there in Phoenix, Arizona. And Laura describing this as a peaceful and passionate protest, starting out that way, but at some point for some reason police officers then had to change their tactics and starting to use pepper -- rather -- yes. Pepper spray on that crowd to disperse the crowd. Thank you so much for your reporting and we'll stay in touch with you.

We're back here in Dallas, Texas, and I'd like to bring in the Dallas deputy mayor pro tem Erik Wilson to talk about just the situation.

If you think about the last 24 hours, what's it been like for you?

ERIK WILSON, DALLAS DEPUTY MAYOR PRO TEM: Pretty much been that way. It's been a big question mark, one that we ask why, what a surprise, one of devastation, but also one of unity. As you can see, you look at the display of unity and support for our fallen officers. One for our Dallas police officers, one for DART.

It's a slow healing process. We're going that process.

HOWELL: One thing that I noticed among so many people when I got to the airport, I've seen it play out here, but people are having these conversations. They're talking about all kinds of things. They're talking about the loss of these five officers. Talk about alleged police brutality. Talking about issues of race relations. Talk about everything under the sun.

WILSON: I would say that's healthy. If you look at demonstrators and protests, it's a manifestation of frustration, it's a manifestation of anger, and it just needs to be guided in the correct manner. I give all credit to our Police Chief David Brown, who encourages these discussions.

Our mayor, Mayor Mike Rawlings, who encourages these discussions. Let's have these tough discussions because that's the way that we're going to be able to resolve issues.

HOWELL: Talk to us about what happens in the next several days. I know that the president will be here soon. But how will Dallas honor these five officers who lost their lives?

WILSON: We'll continue doing much like what we're doing right now, paying our respects. We encourage individuals that may want to contribute for the loss of those officers. You can go to ATODallas.org. Again, that's ATODallas.org. And those funds go directly to the fallen officers to pay for the funeral expenses for their families.

But we also want to continue to encourage our current officers to let them know we support them and those family members that have lost loved ones.

HOWELL: Thank you so much for taking time with us.

WILSON: I appreciate it. Thank you.

HOWELL: Thank you so much.

Michael, here in Dallas, Texas. Fair to say it's a city in mourning but at the same time a city that's coming together and resilient.

HOLMES: George Howell, thanks so much. We'll check in with you in a bit. George, thank you so much.

Meanwhile, I want to bring in Steve Moore. He is a CNN law enforcement contributor and former FBI agent live via Skype from Los Angeles.

Steve, I'm curious. What are the risks now given the environment such as it is? I mean, there's obviously been discussion of the risk of copycatting. But in terms of the tension, I mean, things getting out of control, how to keep a lid on things.

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Well, the way to key a lid on things is to have as the deputy mayor just said, have hard discussions, start to recognize that each side has legitimate issues, and find ways through this not to jump to conclusions, not to say inflammatory or incendiary things before facts are out. And realize that any kind of war between the police and civilians is going to work out badly for everybody. And that is certainly a possibility. Not with the mainstream law enforcement or Black Lives Matter, but there are some people out there, as we found out last night, who are not well, who might take this to the next level.

HOLMES: And that's a societal thing, really. And it's something that is really rife through politics and social media, everything. The divisiveness in the country, black versus white, Muslim versus non- Muslim, gay versus straight, foreign-born -- I mean, it goes from the politicians right through to social media.

[02:10:03] It's a toxic brew, isn't it?

MOORE: It really is. And it comes down to the very basic building block of bias. And that is to say that all people of a certain type, whether it be gender, race, class, sexual preference, are all the same and I can define them. And the minute you say that all policemen are a certain way or that all black people are a certain way, that's the building blocks of conflict. And we have to get past that and start treating it as the complex issue it is and nuanced and not judging people just because they belong to a certain group, whether it be black people --

HOLMES: I wanted to get your thoughts on law enforcement, former FBI agent. I wondered what you thought of this remote bomb. There's a lot of people saying it's pretty unprecedented and some are saying it's something that belongs on the battlefield and not in terms of this sort of situation. Why not continue negotiations, wait it out, wait until he surrendered? Putting a bomb next to a suspect is a pretty unusual thing.

MOORE: Yes, it is. I've never heard of it being done before. But as far as it being used on -- battlefield use, if that wasn't a battlefield in Dallas last night, I don't know what is.

Secondarily, he had no intention of negotiating. He had no intention of ever surrendering. And he was just looking for the police to give him more opportunities to shoot them. So, there was no positive -- there was no upside to continuing to negotiate with him.

The other thing is a lot of people think, you know, deadly force is a gun. No, deadly force is deadly force.

HOLMES: Good point. It was a battlefield. There's no doubt about that.

I want to ask you one other thing, and that was when it came to last night it was one of -- an example of where open carry can be a pretty confusing thing. I think even the mayor said that there were a number of people carrying long weapons, wearing what the mayor called protective gear. They were exercising their right to open carry.

But then shots ring out. And who knows who the guy is and the bad guy is.

MOORE: It is miraculous that somebody carrying an AR-15 was not shot by a police officer. There are a lot of things I have I won't do because they're just plain stupid. And carrying open at a rally where violence is a possibility is high on the list to get you into the Darwin Awards.

HOLMES: You've got good guys shooting good guys. Open carry meeting stand your ground. Really fraught with risk.

I've got to leave it there, unfortunately. Steve Moore, CNN law enforcement contributor, former FBI agent.

Great to talk to you. Thanks so much.

MOORE: Thank you.

HOLMES: We can take a short break here on CNN. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:16:50] HOLMES: Welcome back. We're going to bring you more from Dallas shortly.

First, I want to bring you this. North Korea launching a ballistic missile from a submarine. This according to the South Korean military. According to South Korea's joint chiefs of staff, in fact, they say that the missile was launched from the seas southeast of Sinpo City. That's in the east of North Korea. You can see it there on the map.

For more on what we know about this latest move from Pyongyang, we go now to Matt Rivers live in Seoul.

Latest move, indeed. This is just the latest in a series of tests.

MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And this latest test happened around 11:30 in the morning local time. And defense officials tell CNN that this test is the latest one to not work. This test failed apparently, according to defense officials.

Local media is reporting that the missile successfully launched from the submarine, reaching about ten kilometers or so in the air, traveling only a few kilometers forward before exploding mid-air. Again, that according to local media reports here in South Korea, giving us those details. But defense officials are confirming to CNN that this launch did fail.

Now, this SLBM, submarine launched ballistic missile, is the second that we've seen tested in the last several months. It was back in April. You'll remember that a similar launch also failed. That launch traveling about 30 kilometers, that missile traveling 30 kilometers before failing.

The number that officials say needs to be reached for it to be a successful launch is 300 kilometers. And so, both the test this morning as well as the test back in April clearly needing a long way to go before becoming successful.

But this is just the latest provocation from North Korea. As you mentioned, Michael, starting back in January of this year, with the most recent nuclear test and then in addition to those two SLBM launches there have been several other medium-range missile launch tests that North Korea has conducted, and so you can expect those to continue in the future -- Michael.

HOLMES: Yes, when it comes to North Korea, the timing is everything. And a couple of things that are quite likely not unrelated. And that is the U.S. slapping sanctions personally on the leader of North Korea. And I think 10 of his closest friends. And also, the South Koreans deciding to deploy anti-ballistic missile setup from the U.S.

So, that's got to be playing into it, do you think?

RIVERS: Yes, the timing here certainly doesn't appear to be a coincidence. A lot for North Korea to respond to this week. On the one hand you mentioned the deployment of that THAAD advanced missile descent defense system.

U.S. and South Korean officials talking to reporters only yesterday here, telling reporters that they are in the final stages of deploying that defense system. Certainly not something that Pyongyang will be happy about. Also those sanctions you mentioned, for the first time ever the United States specifically identifying and sanctioning Kim Jong-un for human rights violations, saying that he is complicit in torture and things like extrajudicial killings.

[02:20:04] And because of that specifically naming him in these human rights sanctions, freezing all of his assets under United States jurisdiction, a move that is admittedly largely symbolic but still the first time specifically naming and shaming him. That is something that the North Koreans are very, very upset about, saying it is an unforgivable act. So, this latest launch here local time around 11:30 Saturday likely in response to those two distinct incidents, Michael.

HOLMES: All right, Matt. Appreciate that. Thanks so much, Matt Rivers there in Seoul.

All right. We're going to send it back to George Howell now in Dallas with the latest from there. Hey, George.

HOWELL: Michael, thank you. Police across the United States, they continue to mourn the loss of these five officers who were killed in the line of duty here in Dallas, Texas, during that deadly ambush that played out on the streets here. Seven other officers and two civilians were wounded. This when a gunman opened fire during a peaceful protest that is being called an act of domestic terrorism.

Investigators have identified the gunman. This man, 25-year-old Micah Xavier Johnson. They say he was the lone shooter and apparently had been infuriated by police killings of African-Americans.

Some context: it's important to keep in mind the frustration, the outrage quite frankly felt by many after these protests that began this week after the killing of two African-American men by police officers in the states of Louisiana and Minnesota. The fiance of Philando Castile captured the moments after his shooting on Wednesday in a suburb of St. Paul, Minnesota.

On a live Facebook video post, she says a police officer shot Castile after pulling him over for a broken taillight, and when he went to reach for his wallet after being asked for identification, that's when it happened. Castile's mother, Valerie, says she just does not understand why this happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VALERIE CASTILE, MOTHER OF PHILANDO CASTILE: I did everything right as a parent. I made sure my kids understood the difference in being law-abiding and that the police were there to help. And I never once in my life would have thought that my son would actually be killed by the persons that are supposed to protect and serve him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOWELL: Police in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, shot Alton Sterling several times on Tuesday after a homeless man called 911. A source says the man kept asking sterling for money and sterling brandished his weapon, a gun. The 37-year-old was a father. The mother of one of his sons spoke with CNN's Don Lemon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUINYETTA MCMILLON, MOTHER OF ALTON STERLING'S SON: It's unbearable pain. Especially being a mother with a teenage son. And it's like, you know, what's the biggest thing that you tell him besides "I love you" and everything is going to be okay?

We have to stay together. We have to pray together. And honestly, that's what's going to be keeping me and Cameron focused, with the help of my family as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOWELL: We continue to follow protests around the United States. Witnesses say Phoenix police, Phoenix, Arizona, that they've been using pepper spray on marchers there. I want to show you these images there in Phoenix, an effort to break up the crowd there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's above and beyond out of control. Unless someone's out there throwing fists, they should not have pepper sprayed anybody. They pepper sprayed children. There was little children asking for water on the side because they were maced in the face. Now, if you have to go as far as pepper spraying children, you're the problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOWELL: Let's go live to reporter Derek Staahl, a reporter with affiliate stations KPHO and KTVK in Phoenix, joining us now by phone.

I'd like to just talk to you seeing, these images. You're seeing the protesters dispersed and right now we're seeing this line of police officers still holding their ground. Derek, tell us what you're seeing.

DEREK STAAHL, KPHO/KTVK REPORTER (via telephone): Yes, I was out 7th Street and Fillmore.

And the young lady that you heard from just moments ago I spoke with her. That was from my interview. And I can tell you a lot of people were really frustrated with police that they did deploy tear gas. I've covered a lot of protests in my years as a reporter. This was easily the most chaotic and most frightening I've ever seen because --

HOWELL: I want to ask you, Derek, so the question, though, is it tear gas or was it pepper spray? Do you have any --

STAAHL: My understanding is they were pepper balls. I saw officers with what looks like a paintball gun.

[02:25:02] And my understanding on the ground was they were pepper balls. People were holding their eyes. You could see a lot of -- I've seen about half a dozen folks who were on the ground covering their eyes, obviously in distress.

My photographer, photojournalist Jim Frye (ph), actually got pepper sprayed a little bit but kept going. And it was pretty tense there for quite some time.

HOWELL: I'm hoping that you guys are okay. I know that being pepper sprayed, it's not a pleasant situation there. We're looking at some images right now, Derek. These are images taken earlier.

But look, there were a lot of people on the streets. Talk to us about what it was like before it got a bit more chaotic. It was pretty tense from the start.

STAAHL: Yes. Right off the bat I would estimate 500 or 600 people were out there, maybe more. It's hard to tell sometimes when you're right in the middle of it all. They kind of gathered up by city hall. And there were a couple of counter-protesters that showed up. People with signs that said "black lives matter". One guy had a circumstance well a red line through that.

And people immediately got right up in their face and it was sort of a standoff between protesters and counter-protesters. That calmed down. But then as protesters were kind of marching around downtown Phoenix, word got out that people were thinking about going onto the freeway.

We have a couple of freeways that have entrances right there in downtown. One of them is known as the Loop 202. The other one is known as the famous I-10 freeway that stretches across the United States. People were thinking about going onto the freeway. And that's why these police officers made that dramatic stand and basically formed a human shield, kind of a human line at 7th Street and Fillmore.

HOWELL: Derek, you know, we're seeing these images from earlier, but I'd ask you to tell us about the situation right now in the streets of Phoenix. We got a sense that the crowds were dispersing. Is there -- is it fair to say that there are fewer people on the streets right now?

STAAHL: Definitely fewer people on the streets right now. The crowd had kind of splintered and kind of gone different direction. You know, I'm still right now in downtown Phoenix. I can't hear anything from where I'm currently am.

But every once in a while, you hear kind of a cluster of folks chanting. It's hard to tell if there are any significant events, any sort of issues right now just because the crowd has sort of spread out. It seems, though, my assessment, is things have calmed down significantly from where they were a couple of hours ago.

HOWELL: On the line with us live, reporter Derek Staahl, a reporter with affiliate stations KPHO and KTVK in Phoenix, Arizona.

Derek, thank you so much for your time. We'll stay in touch with you.

This is CNN, and we continue to follow the situation here in Dallas, Texas.

We'll tell you more after the break about these officers killed in the line of duty here in Dallas.

You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:31:37] HOLMES: And welcome back to our viewers in the U.S. and around the world. I'm Michael Holmes at the CNN Center in Atlanta.

HOWELL: And I'm George Howell live here in Dallas, Texas.

HOLMES: All right. Charles Coleman is a civil rights attorney and a former prosecutor and trial lawyer. He joins me now from New York to talk about things.

You know, we were talking earlier with someone else about the temperature in the U.S. and how to lower it. What do you think -- we've been seeing already pepper spray and the like in Phoenix, Arizona. There's been a little bit of tension around the country, not to mention what we saw unfold in Dallas and the incidents that led to those demonstrations.

What do you think needs to be done to make everyone stop and take a deep breath and have a look at things?

CHARLES F. COLEMAN, JR., CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, you know, one of the things that happens when we have these conversations about community and police relationships is that oftentimes, the one element that we omit from the conversation is the importance for law enforcement to actually come to the table with open hands willing to really have the conversation about how policing can be better in America. We have a lot of conversation about the need for unity, the need to unite, the need to do things better.

But seldom is law enforcement or police unions willing to come to the table with an open mind, really willing to accept being ready and prepared to (AUDIO GAP) the things that they do. And I think that that's really one of the hidden elements that's preventing the conversation from moving forward.

HOLMES: And you're right. Prayers and calls for unity are nice sentiments but they are just sentiments, aren't they? I mean, in an actual tangible way what needs to be done?

I've been seeing a lot of suggestions, grassroots involvement obviously, of community and police department. Even community-run civilian commissions, if you like. More of a say in who polices community. Is that the sort of thing that would work in a demonstrable way?

COLEMAN: I do think so. But I think that part of the problem is that we don't have enough real conversations about how we got here. The reality is that communities of color across America are over-policed in ways that have really tarnished relationships going back for several generations.

And until we can be honest on both sides about some of the mistakes that have been made, we are (AUDIO CLIP) conversation to the place that will really bring about healing and really bring about the unity that is a part of so much of this rhetoric. Unfortunately, law enforcement is one of the only professional communities where I seldom here, hey, we got it wrong and we can do things better.

Oftentimes, it's from a place of understandable defensiveness and understandable sort of refusal to consider other possibilities. And I get it. Law enforcement has an incredibly difficult job. Police have to make snap decisions and exercise an incredibly high amount of discretion and judgment.

However, all of us can always do our jobs better. So when there's not that willingness to have that conversation, it becomes an obstacle to really making progress. So, before we can move on and talk about how do we improve in a tangible way with respect to actual steps and community policing, we have to have everyone at the table, and that includes police, that includes law enforcement, that even includes prosecutors, recognizing, realizing, and being ready to admit that they've done some things wrong, they can do some things better, and being sincerely and genuinely ready to improve.

[02:35:07] HOLMES: You know, and you are raised the point, too, and it is that police have a very difficult job. I mean, just the number of police being killed this year. It's got to be taken into account. There were incidents in the last 24 hours. In Georgia, I think, Missouri, Tennessee of police being shot or fired upon.

How do you impart to them, I don't know, a sense that not everyone's going to be a threat? What sort of training needs to take place? Or is it more fundamental than just training? It's more of a quantum shift of -- a quantum shift. What do you think?

COLEMAN: I have to be frank about this. The reality is what we need is police to stop killing us. And I hate to make it sound so simple.

But the reality is that there is a level of inherent bias that exists in each and every one of us. And I think that bias and sensitivity training would go a long way with respect to police departments because many of us have blind spots with respect to our biases that we don't even recognize, that we don't even know are there.

And part of the problem is when we approach things without recognizing those blind spots, without being willing to admit that we have certain prejudices, that impacts our work at the worst times. And so that, if anything, when you talk about training, should be incorporated with respect to the psychological training that law enforcement undergoes so that they are prepared to competently dealing with the communities that they serve.

You talk about community policing. One of the critical elements of community policing is cultural competency. So, cultural competency requires that there's a special emphasis placed on, A, having a diverse police force that understands the communities and understands the people that they're responsible for serving and protecting and secondly, with that, again, talking about service and protection being hallmarks of what law enforcement's jobs are.

HOLMES: Fascinating context. Appreciate your setting up, Charles. Charles Coleman there, civil rights attorney, former prosecutor and trial lawyer -- really appreciate you coming on.

COLEMAN: Thank you so much for having me.

HOLMES: All right. We're going to send it back to George Howell in Dallas now.

You've got some more to tell us there, George.

HOWELL: Michael, yes. We're monitoring these demonstrations. In the U.S. state of Arizona, that's where things became just a bit chaotic earlier. Protesters there speaking out against some of the recent shootings by police officers of African-Americans in other parts of the country. Witnesses say police in Phoenix, that they used pepper spray to control the crowd just a short time ago.

Joining us now, Fabio Nunez is on the line. He is at the rally and now joins us to tell us the situation there.

Fabio, if you can hear me, so what's the situation? Are people still in big numbers there on the streets?

FABIO NUNES, WITNESS (via telephone): Yes, we're around 100 plus. There were a lot more people earlier but as the cops started becoming, you know, abrasive and violent people started leaving and going home. But we're still holding on strong here. They pushed a little bit back some of us, and now they kind of moved back the cops again. Now, we're moving forward. They're trying to barricade us around the little area and trying to catch us. But we're still here standing strong.

HOWELL: For the most part. Pepper spray was used in the crowds, getting some information from that department that they were careful in utilizing that. They didn't want people in the front of the crowds -- you see here. People in the front to then run back and trample people in the back.

So, we're told they were careful in their use of pepper spray. But I'll tell you, pepper spray in any situation, it is not pleasant.

Do you get the sense now that police have the streets dispersed, or is there a sense that this could come back together?

NUNES: To answer your question, first of all, that is incorrect. They were throwing pepper spray in front of us and also two people got hit and the ambulance came and had to get them. Some girl was throwing up on the floor and basically just dying out. And they had to call an ambulance. I actually got shots by pellets. Pepper spray as all over my nose.

So I don't know what they mean when they say they were civil. But they were pretty attacking to us over there.

HOWELL: Hey, you know what? You're on the ground there reporting it. We take our information from you because you're dealing with, it you're seeing it. And we appreciate your reporting with us.

Tell us, do you get a sense, you know, with the protesters there, with this particular gathering that they had, will there be more protests tonight or is it something that does seem to be winding down?

NUNES: Currently it seems to be winding down. You know, it's been going on for around a couple hours. You know, earlier we were walking around, being peaceful, compliant, no problems.

[02:40:02] And then the cops, you know, kind of started coming at us. You know, like I said, pepper sprays and shooting us with pellets. And that's when we started kind of standing out and pushing ourselves forward to see if we can get into the highway, into basically.

HOWELL: Fabio Nunes on the line with us, live in Phoenix, Arizona. Looking at these images from earlier as the crowds were dispersing. Fabio, thank you so much for your reporting. We wish you safety as well as you continue to do your job out there. And again, we'll stay in touch with you and our other affiliates there in Phoenix, Arizona, monitoring these protests.

Back here live in Dallas, Texas, this is where people are reeling, quite frankly, from this deadly police ambush here. A sniper shot 12 officers just the other day, killed five of them at a peaceful protest that started Thursday night. Police killed that gunman with an explosive on a bomb squad robot after the negotiations failed and broke down.

This mass shooting during one of the many demonstrations across the U.S. is demanding answers, people demanding answers over the killing of two African-American men by police in two days just this week. Officer Patrick Zamarripa lost his life doing what he loved -- his family and friends now mourning him and asking why this awful act of domestic terrorism took their loved one away from them. Earlier he spoke with CNN. His father did.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK ZAMARRIPA, FATHER OF OFFICER PATRICK ZAMARRIPA, KILLED IN DALLAS: He was very, very helpful young man. He was very giving. He would give you his last dollar if he had it in his pocket if you need it. He would bend over backwards to help everybody out. He was patient. He would try to help anybody out the best he could.

If you needed help, Patrick would offer to help. Even if he couldn't do anything, he would offer it to you.

My son, he was -- since day one, since he was born, he was a hero, he was my little hero and he's a big hero now. Yes, he's -- he's going to be missed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOWELL: There was a great deal of outrage here in the past several days, again, about these police-involved shootings. People in their vehicles shot and killed by police and not returning home. There's a great deal of outrage about the death of these five police officers killed in the line of duty, families who expected their loved ones to walk through that door, and that didn't happen.

The president of the United States on a trip to Europe. He is changing his itinerary following the shooting here in Dallas. We'll have more on when he is set to arrive here.

The U.S. presidential candidates, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, also reacting to the mass shooting that played out on the streets of Dallas, Texas. What they have been saying as CNN NEWSROOM continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [02:46:21] HOLMES: In the wake of the shooting in Dallas, U.S. President Barack Obama is going to shorten the Spanish end of his European strip and travel to Dallas early next week. Mr. Obama in Poland right now for that NATO meeting. The president said on Friday the U.S. was horrified by what he called a vicious calculated and despicable attack on law enforcement.

The mass shooting in Dallas, Texas and the killings of two black men by police that preceded it have drawn responses from the U.S. presidential candidates as well.

The presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump tying the killing of five officers in Dallas to the economy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. REPRUBLICAN PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Too many Americans are living in terrible poverty and violence. We need jobs. And we're going to produce those jobs.

Racial divisions have gotten worse, not better. Too many headlines flash across our screens every day about the rising crime and rising death tolls in our cities. Now is the time for prayers, love, unity, and leadership.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: On the Democratic side, the presumptive nominee Hillary Clinton calling for new guidelines in the wake of the shootings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, U.S. DEMOCRATIC PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We must do more to have national guidelines about the use of force by police, especially deadly force. We need to do more to look into implicit bias. And we need to do more to respect and protect our police.

Look at what happened in Dallas. Those police officers were protecting a peaceful protest, a protest of authority. That is a hallmark of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Presumptive U.S. Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton speaking there.

All right. Let's send it back to George in Dallas with more. Hey, George.

HOWELL: Michael, thank you.

You know, let's talk more about the rhetoric that we are seeing after this week's shootings, these deadly shootings in the U.S. and their political ramifications. Joined now by radio host and conservative commentator Lawrence Jones. Mr. Jones, good to have you with us.

LAWRENCE JONES, THE BLAZE RADIO HOST, "THE LAWRENCE JONES SHOW": Thanks so much for having me.

HOWELL: Let's talk about it. Obviously, given the context of what happened, the fatal police-involved shootings of two African-American men in the state of Louisiana, in Minnesota, sparking these protests. First of all, what are your thoughts about the protests and the way they are being received given everything that's happened?

JONES: I've been mourning all week because with those shootings themselves I had some pause and then with the officers' shooting there was some pause as well. So I think this should be a time where we come together.

Now, the protest itself, it was largely peaceful. You had one nut decided to, you know, have actions toward the police that ultimately killed five cops and injured six. But I don't think that was the protest at large. I think there is a real conversation that has to happen in America as it relates to the black community and policing in America. There is some distrust, and there is some disconnect, and sometimes there's not respect for the law as well.

And so, there has to be a balance of both parties coming together to have this conversation.

HOWELL: You know, I'm struck by that. I spoke to several people here. And one person in particular said, yes, there were the protests but let's not let that get hijacked by this deranged person who did this awful act with these police officers. But here we are now, you know, five police officers who were killed in the line of duty. And when you talk about the political optics here, people have chimed in.

[02:50:00] Some of it inflammatory.

I want to read this tweet from Congressman Joe Walsh. You're familiar with this tweet.

JONES: I am.

"This is now war," he tweets. "Watch out, Obama. Watch out, Black Lives Matter punks. Real America is coming after you."

What does that mean, real America? What's that? And is that a --

JONES: I just think the entire tweet is inappropriate. It's not the time for it. As a conservative I can't criticize the president for some of his words that may have put gasoline in the fire and not criticize the former congressman.

I believe that it's time for both parties to put aside their talking points and come together for America, because everybody is hurting right now. I hurt when those two black guys were shot. And I hurt when these five officers died yesterday. I think America is hurting. And we need peace. We need love. We need actual policy changes that's going to bring us together.

HOWELL: I saw the former congressman interviewed by my colleague Don Lemon. And you know, when asked about this comment, again, where "this is now war, watch out Obama," when Don asked, you know, what does that mean, watch out Obama, he said it's not a matter of -- he respects -- Mr. Walsh respects the office but does not respect the president. So --

JONES: I don't think -- number one, he used the word war. OK? I don't think it was appropriate at the time to say that we're in a war.

Yes, we may be in a war. We're in a sense of there is a war between two different communities. But we've been in a war. There has been this disconnect.

But nobody wants to have the conversation. Neither party wants to have that conversation. Both of them have contributed -- I'm a conservative. I think my party has some fault. But I also think there's a lot of progressive and liberals have some fault as well.

HOWELL: And I want to talk about the reactions we're hearing from the two presumptive nominees. We've heard from Hillary Clinton. We've heard from Donald Trump. Your thoughts on what we heard so far.

JONES: Well, I don't think either one of them have helped the situation, especially when I look at Hillary Clinton. Part of my problem with Secretary Clinton is that she talks about an injustice system when she is one of those well-connected people that has benefited from the justice system. Someone that have deleted her e- mails the way she did. If it was wan average every day citizen it wouldn't have been the same.

So, it's kind of hard for me to take her seriously coming into different communities saying, "I understand your pain", while benefiting from a criminal justice system that benefits the well- connected, the elite, and those that are wealthy.

HOWELL: Lawrence Jones, thank you so much for your time and your insights. We appreciate it.

JONES: Thank you.

HOWELL: This is CNN NEWSROOM. We'll continue right after the break.

(COMMERIAL BREAK)

[02:56:47] HOWELL: We're back here live in Dallas, Texas. I want to show you an image that's just here on the other side of me, this image in downtown Dallas. You see the tallest building in the city lit blue tonight. The city showing solidarity for its police force. Five officers killed in the line of duty.

CNN NEWSROOM continues right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)