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Houston Armed Suspect Killed In Officer-Involved Shooting; Thousands March Across The Country; Investigators: Gunman Had Arsenal Of Weapons; Dallas Chief Has Lost Partner, Brother, Son To Violence; Murdered Shooting Victims Remembered; Presidential Candidates React to Police Shootings. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired July 9, 2016 - 08:00   ET




[08:00:15] UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: We got a guy with a long rifle. We don't know where the hell he's at!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's four cops down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At that point, I thought to myself, this is real.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: There's no possible justification for these kinds of attacks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're hurting. Dallas officers are hurting. We are heartbroken.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Since day one he's born here as a hero.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's come together as a country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God, please don't tell me he's dead. I want my justice. I want people to know who did this to us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I for one will not rest until the adequate punishment is served to all parties involved.


CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: It is been an emotionally draining several days. Hasn't it? We are so grateful for your company as we always are. I'm Christie Paul. Hi, Victor.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you, Christi. I'm Victor Blackwell here in Dallas in front of the Dallas Police Department Headquarters. I want to hold this up for you showing the "Dallas Morning News" with the "We are hurting" and the pictures of those five officers, one DART officer, four Dallas Police Department officers here, as this community is hurting but trying to heal.

Christie, I understand, you have some breaking news we need to get to.

PAUL: We do, Victor, thank you so much. Just coming into our newsroom, in fact, we have learned that an armed suspect has been killed in an officer involved shooting. This happened in the Houston area, according to the spokeswoman from the Houston Police Department. Here's what we know.

Two officers were on patrol. They came across a man standing in the street armed with a revolver. They exited their vehicle and told the man to put the weapon down, and instead he pointed it at them. At that point, both officers fired their weapons and shot the man.

I understand that he has died. We'll have more details on this coming up in the hour as we continue to get more information.

Victor, that is the latest from Houston as we get word of that overnight fatal shooting. I want to get back to you there in Dallas.

BLACKWELL: All right, we hope to learn more about what happened there in Houston. But a very busy day underway here. Just a few hours from now, President Obama will be speaking with the media. He's expected, of course, to comment on the death of five police officers here in Dallas.

We are also watching new protests in Washington, D.C., expected to start pretty soon. We'll cover those where they begin.

In the meantime, a rash of demonstrations across the country all day Friday into the night following the deaths of two black men who died after encounters with police.

Now one incident in Louisiana and the other in Minnesota. Now in Nashville more than a thousand people gathered in front of city hall. They were praying there at a vigil so large it shut down major streets there.


BLACKWELL: In Detroit, hundreds rallied support of the Black Lives Matter Movement speaking out against violence.


BLACKWELL: In Washington, protesters gathered outside the Department of Justice. They are expected to gather again today in one of six protests planned across the city.

[08:05:06]Now to Baltimore, demonstrators shouting black lives matter here. That city was paralyzed by violent riots a year ago following the death of Freddie Gray while in police custody.

Meanwhile, authorities are trying to get inside the head of this gunman, the man behind the deadliest attack on law enforcement since 9/11.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that cop dead? That's a cop down. There is a cop down. Yes. There is four cops down.


BLACKWELL: Authorities say 25-year-old Micah Johnson had an arsenal of weapons when he unloaded on a crowd with the mission to kill while people especially white officers according to the chief.

Investigators searched the Army veteran's home finding bomb making materials, ballistic vests, and rifles, ammunition and also a personal journal of combat tactics, and that could be key in learning how he was able to pull this attack.

President Obama we know is now cutting his trip short overseas in order to head to Dallas. We are told he'll be here early next week. Sara Sidner is here with me. What more are we learning about this man?

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We are learning a lot of details. Not only from the conversations that we had with police before he was killed, some of those conversations you talked a little bit about. He talked about what he was doing what he was doing.

That he was targeting white people particularly while officers. But also that it was because he was disturbed by what he had been seeing of the relationship between police officers and especially young black men in this country.

Saying that he was not involve with any particular organizations, but did mention the Black Lives Matter Organization saying that he was disturb by why they are protesting, not by them necessarily, but why they are protesting.

We are also learning about some of the things he had in his home that has really disturbed the population here. He had bomb making materials in his home that they were able to grab.

He also had add journal that talked about what he planned to do or at least had some details about that and also he was looking at information about how to shoot and run, and that's exactly what he was doing.

BLACKWELL: Learning a lot of these details, most of them, in fact, from the chief of police here in Dallas, Chief David Brown, he has seen more than his share of tragedies over the last six years as the head of this department.

SIDNER: Yes, I was here the last time this police department was attacked. There was a man that came and shot this police department up and there are still you can see where the bullets hit this department. He was here for that. But he has also had some personal tragedies that he has had to overcome.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) SIDNER (voice-over): The city of Dallas is reeling, horrified after Thursday's vicious ambush. The sniper's target, police, particularly white police officers. Five police officers killed and seven others wounded after a gunman opened fire at a downtown Dallas protests over police killings of young black men. Amid the chaos and fear, a strong voice has emerged.

CHIEF DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: There is no words to describe the atrocity that occurred inside our city.

SIDNER: Calling for peace, calling for respect, Dallas Police Chief David Crown must calm a terrified city at the same time he's dealing with the aftermath of the deadliest assault on law enforcement since 9/11.

BROWN: We don't feed much support most days. Let's not make today most days, please. We need your support to be able to protect you from being like these who carried out these tragic, tragic event.

SIDNER: He is a 30-year veteran of the Dallas Police Department. Few people know heartbreak, loss, and pain better than Chief Brown, who lost a colleague, a son, and his brother to violence.

Six years ago, his own son killed a police officer and another man before police fatally shot his son more than a dozen time. Brown's younger brother was killed by drug dealers back in the '90s. He does not talk much about those losses. But now he must unravel what happened behind an unthinkable massacre.

BROWN: Through our investigation of some of the suspects, it is revealed to us that this was a well-planned and well thought out, evil tragedy, by these suspects. And we won't rest until we bring everyone involved to justice.

[08:10:11]SIDNER: Underground Brown's leadership, the Dallas Police Department worked hard to reduce incidents of excessive force in recent years. Police trained to use tasers instead of bullets in certain situations. Now, some of these officers are dead and one man must help a city mend.

BROWN: In the police profession, we are very comfortable with not hearing thank you from citizens especially who need us the most. We are used to it.

So today feels like a different day than the days before this tragedy because you are here, because Dallas is as city that loves.


SIDNER: And I know that we have been talking a lot about the investigation. People want to know why did this happen. But I want to mention five names the country should be thinking about for more than the person who did this, Lorne Ahrens, Michael Krol, Michael Smith, Brent Thompson, and Patrick Zamarripa, these are the officers who were killed. The oldest, 55 and the youngest just 32 years old.

BLACKWELL: Yes, and Zamarripa's father said his son was born a hero and is a hero now, and all five heroes. Sara Sidner, thanks so much.

This is a moment that many of us are watching the coverage early Friday morning. Hospital staff in Dallas and doctors there at arm's length forming a protective barrier around the bodies of the fallen officers as they were carried out in the facility.

Kyung Lah talked to a doctor about why they did that.

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Victor, this community has suffered such loss, such trauma inside these emergency room as these doctors try to save their lives. They tell us the story behind these images coming up in a live report.



BLACKWELL: So this is one of those moment, those scenes, that we just can't get out of our minds. It was a moment right after the shooting. I think really early Friday morning, these salutes at both the Parkland Memorial and Baylor University Medical Center as the ambulances, the medical vans, carried the bodies of the deceased officers from those hospitals.

Now this is Baylor and you see the staff members there arm's length, standing around, a group of uniformed officers giving them privacy to say goodbye to their fallen colleagues.

Our Kyung Lah is outside of Baylor this morning. With the -- some information about these victims, I know we are not getting specifics, but more about this moment and what we saw from those medical professionals.

LAH: Let me tell you about what happened right before then because we are getting much more details about those hectic moments as the calls first came in. The first calls were that there were mass casualties. They had no idea inside this ER that what they're about to get were police officers.

When those officers started to arrive, they did not come by paramedics. They didn't come by ambulance. They came in their own squad cars, squad cars that were riddled with bullets because they had been in downtown Dallas.

One of the ER doctors who had served in Afghanistan, he has in the last three years spent 20 months in the Middle East said this does not feel like America to him. It felt like Afghanistan. Here is what he told us.


DR. STEPHEN BURGHER, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN: This is what we do in the military when we have soldiers or Marines who are dying in the fight. We'll have dignified transfer. That's what we call in the military. That's what they did here with the fallen officers, a dignified transfer and everybody stands in attention and there is a solemnness. There is quietness and the fallen are escorted out. It is a hard challenge, but it is a time for respect and honor one another.

LAH: We need to do more of this?

BURGHER: We need to do more of healing as a nation.


LAH: These medical professionals, the ones who -- many of them are off, ran in and tried to save them, but they could not save everyone. They lost two. A Dallas police officer and a DART police officer, the Rapid Area Transit officer.

So they did what they could. They try to send them off in the best and most respectful way as possible. As the coroner's van pulled up, we saw the medical personnel exit the emergency room standing shoulder to shoulder. The police officers who had been here hoping that their fellow officers would survive then saluted as the two bodies left this hospital -- Victor.

BLACKWELL: Dignified transfer indeed. Kyung Lah there for us. Kyung, thank you so much.

Of course, we are here in Dallas talking about as the traffic goes by, I'm sure you can hear it, of the violence here against those officers in Dallas.

But several officers we have learned had been shot in just the last 48 hours across the country. We are going to talk about what many departments are saying is this targeting of officers and the anger and hostility that appears to be growing. Stay with us.



BLACKWELL: Welcome back. I'm Victor Blackwell in front of the Dallas Police Headquarters here in downtown. As the country mourns the loss of those five officers murdered here in this city, police across the country are really now on edge as several more of them have been targets in the last 24 to 48 hours.

So far there have been attacks on police officers in Tennessee, Georgia, Missouri and Louisiana and hours before the Dallas ambush, the first attack happened in Bristol, Tennessee.

Police say a man opened fire on drivers early Thursday at a motel along the Volunteer Parkway killing a woman, wounded three people including that officer. The gunman was shot and arrested.

Let me take you to Valdosta, Georgia, investigators say a man made a bogus theft call to police in order to lure that officer to an apartment complex, shooting and wounding that officer, but the officer was able to shoot back at the gunman. Both are in the hospital.

Now to Baldwin, Missouri where police say a driver who was pulled over for speeding shot the officer in the neck. That officer is in critical condition this morning. The gunman ran away, but was captured later.

And now to New Orleans, the FBI has notified local police departments of social media threats to officers and one read simply, "Must kill every police."

Let's talk about this. I want to bring in Malik Aziz. He is the Dallas deputy chief of police and executive director of the National Black Police Association. Chief, good morning to you and our condolences for your losses here.

I know you can't talk about specifics of the investigation for these officers. But what has been the impact at large on the department?

DEPUTY CHIEF MALIK AZIZ, NATIONAL CHAIR AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL BLACK POLICE ASSOCIATION: Well, you know first, our officers are with heavy hearts and a state of shock and disbelief of what has occurred here in Dallas. There are unprecedented types of violence against police in the United States and especially here in Dallas, Texas.

I think the impact on our department is what we've seen and we can civilize as you can see with flowers, teddy bears, and candles in the squares full of people. We've seen an overwhelming show of support and love from our residents and our business community.

We've also seen people who were peacefully protesting who said that is not what we intended. That is not what we want. They wanted to readdress their grievances against the most visible form of government as the city police.

They did not want violence and we've seen that across the nation here, but the impact on the whole is that what it will force us to do is work with each other with a truthful and honest dialogue.

[08:25:07]BLACKWELL: Now, the Texas lieutenant governor said that he saw irony in the protesters needing the health of the police while they were protesting police. Did you see that it that way?

AZIZ: Well, you know, I really want to expound on what the governor says, but I won't take that approach. We have in Dallas working on community relations and engagement since 1993. We've had community policing. So every chief has expounded on that and it's gotten better and better in community engagement.

And it's no different on the current chief, David Brown. Our protesters who come here, who had multiple protests and we protected the protesters even the day of the protest, an hour before, 30 minutes before, police were taking photographs with protesters and posted on social media and walking along the side of the route.

We've had established a relationship with protested and we can agree or disagree, and that goes across many different disciplines. So I won't take that approach. We have professionals and we go to our jobs and we ran through the face of danger and we lost five officers. BLACKWELL: Let me ask you about something. I know you have seen it. Nakia Jones, who is an officer in the Cleveland area. She on her Facebook page and we'll play a bit of her video had a message for some of her counterparts. Let's watch it and then we'll talk.


NAKIA JONES, CLEVELAND POLICE OFFICER: Please forgive me. If you are white and you work in a black community and you are racist, you need to be ashamed of yourself. You took an oath and you need to take your behind somewhere else. If you are that officer, you are afraid of people that don't look like you, you have no business in that uniform. Take it off.


BLACKWELL: Again, she is a police officer in the Cleveland area. It is been viewed nearly seven million times. It's one thing to say that on your Facebook page, but, are there real conversations like that inside the department?

AZIZ: In Dallas, I can speak for Dallas. I have seen many police departments. I have seen this conversation. I have seen officers with other officers who have different understanding of cultures and different places where we come from.

I mean, we are still meshing and trying to figure out an integrated society and overall we are still segregated society where we grow on side of town and we never interact with everyone else.

So that explicit bias we often stamp out. The conversation is to stamp that out is reprimanded and determinations and police departments will not tolerate exclusive bias and racism and discrimination.

The implicit bias which all of us have which we don't focus on. That subconscious, that conversation cannot take place until you realize that you have a culture difference.

That's maybe what the young lady is saying when you see something vastly different from how another race or ethnic group sees things, and that is the problem between us.

That we don't actually talk about, the small conversations but at large -- that's why of the 21st Century policing, I call on the national president to convene a national conversation on race and police brutality.

I hope that he obligates those future president to have that conversation so we can have that conversation overall and in every city across the United States. We need to have it. She's right in that aspect.

BLACKWELL: All right, Deputy Chief, thanks so much for being with us.

AZIZ: Thank you for having me as always. Thank you to the nation and the world for the expression of love and support to the Dallas Police Department and Dallas Area Rapid Transit Police Department.

BLACKWELL: All right, thank you so much, sir. The calls for justice and the calls for police reform, the calls of solitarity and support. We are seeing all of it. Questions, though, what should be done to answer those calls?


[08:32:46] BLACKWELL: Welcome back, I'm Victor Blackwell in Dallas.

PAUL: And I'm Christi Paul in Atlanta. We're going to get you back to Victor in Dallas in just a moment.

But I want to let you know with some breaking news that we've learned about. A gunman had been killed in an officer involved shooting in the Houston area that's happened overnight, Houston of course to that three and a half hours south of Dallas where Victor is right now.

According to the spokeswomen for the Houston Police Department, two officers were on patrol when they came across a man standing in the street armed with a revolver.

Now, they told the man to put the weapon down, the police say. And instead, he pointed it in the air. The spokesperson then says, "After that, as the officers continue speaking, the suspect then points his weapon in the direction of the officers and the officers, in fear of their safety, discharged their duty weapons."

Both officers shot the man and he did die. We'll continue to have more information about what happened overnight in Houston as we move forward.

But right now, I do want to get you back to Victor who is in Dallas where they're working so hard to maybe have the healing at least to start to begin. And we see behind you there is such a huge memorial there.

I would have to think that is healing to some of the officers there to get that support.

BLACKWELL: Yes, it is healing. But we also heard from one of the leaders of the local organization Concerns of Police Survivors, COPS is the acronym that some of these being so public makes it more difficult.

But when you see people coming here leaving their patches from other law enforcement agencies, reading the cards, taking pictures, leaving a small notes and flowers. And just a few memento to show they are grateful.

You'll see on the back window here, this sign that says back to blue because someone I called dad is on the force. And two notes written on just basic notebook paper there taped to that window on the back of the car. We've seen this, this morning for several hours and it's just about 8:35 here. We know that President Obama will be coming here to Dallas. We know that he right now of course is overseas. We're expecting he's going to speak to the president in a few hours and of course he expected to comment on the deaths of the five police officers here on Thursday.

[08:35:05] Now, authorities are trying to piece together how this 25- years-old army veteran who served in Afghanistan was able to shoot so many people from multiple locations in downtown Dallas.

A search of his home though turned up, bomb making materials, combat manuals and police did something we learned at this news conference yesterday that we don't know is ever happened in a standoff like this. They sent in a robot with a bomb on one arm of it to kill the gunman hiding there.

Now, while there a lot of people who are grieving the fallen officers, there are also people who are also grieving for Alton Sterling and Philando Castile, the two black men who died at the hands of police earlier this week.

Now, in Baton Rouge, where Sterling was killed there was a protest about 300 people faced off with police last night. They were in riot gear, the police were. And we'll take you to Phoenix now where police used bean bags and pepper spray to disperse a crowd there trying to march on to a freeway.

But one of the big protests made its way last night through the streets of downtown, Atlanta, including really right outside of CNN Center. And our Polo Sandoval was in the thick of that, he's joining us now from Atlanta. Polo give us an idea of what you saw.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Victor as you mentioned there, that protest started just outside of CNN Center here in the heart of Atlanta in downtown.

And then eventually about thousands of people made their way throughout downtown and parts of midtown. And what's important here is that authorities basically scaled back, they said in a way we heard from the mayor yesterday saying, that as long as the protests remain peaceful, then these individuals will be able to make their way through the streets even if that meant blocking traffic in the city itself.

But then, we did see a fairly tense moment as we were marching them. That's when these pictures you were captured when some of these individuals try to make their way onto the interstate. And that's when state troopers nearly scrambled and created these virtual barriers. And you basically are seeing here uniforms so many shoulder blocking some of these individuals and we have to -- and then despite of it being fairly tense at times which interesting though Victor there were these pockets of what you can call conversations that were happening along that line.

I went up to a couple of them, you can actually see some of these protesters speaking and having conversations with the troopers that were essentially blocking their paths. So yes, it was peaceful at the same time so those conversations were actually happening. We do know only two arrest happened yesterday according to authorities, but ultimately, as we do expect more protests in the days ahead.

The mayor calling, Victor, on people to simply remain peaceful to stick to what they call the kindling tradition to respect the law but at the same time remain steadfast when it comes to trying get their message across.

BLACKWELL: All right, Polo Sandoval, thank you so much.

Calls for justice and calls for police reforms. We're going to examine in just a moment what some say should be done to curve police violence and keep our community safe. Stay with us with that conversation.


[08:41:52] PAUL: Well, the recent deadly police shootings are sparking calls to reform police departments across the country. As you know, someone an overhauled of training and revamping our police culture.

Let's talk to Craig Futterman, he's the Director of the Civil Rights and Police Accountability Project and a clinical professor of law at the University of Chicago, Craig thank you so much for being with us, we appreciate it.

Based on everything that you have studied on the numbers that you have of run, what do you believe police agencies need to do to better train and equip officers when it comes to the use of deadly force?

CRAIG FUTTERMAN, DIRECTOR, CIVIL RIGHTS AND POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY PROJECT: Yeah, at first, I have to really pause, Christi because at this time. It's a time I really find myself at a loss for words myself, usually I, you know, I'm one-to-one arrest here (ph), here is the prescription, here as a professor, here is what we need to do, here's what needs to be done to fix this.

But honestly I start with just not knowing what to say because like much of the nation, I'm grieving too. And consumed by the images that we've all seen the image of black mom with her four years old daughter as they watch her boyfriend died at gunpoint at the back seat of the car.

The image of a black man shot at point-blank range as he lay pinned on the ground. And the images of all those innocent people in Dallas who stood up and speak out for what's right and the courageous police officers who were there protecting them and protecting their right to be gun down by a single man with the gun.

So I guess I just start with just as a professor, I wish I had the data, the policy and all the answers. Here's what we need to do. Here's what I can say that will make it all better.

But there's a part of me that deals so that's -- too breaking, too inappropriate for the occasion. PAUL: Well, not only that. But is it even possible really at the end of the day when you think about it. Is it even possible because everybody is struggling with the fears and the sadness and the shock? Everybody is in this together in that regard.

FUTTERMAN: Yeah. But, I'm also struck and I agree. And that's why I think even rushing into prescription with the -- a form of denial of our collective grieve, in our stand horror.

And -- but I'm also struck and I'm really struck by the courage and heroism first of some black women. And it's important to say their names from the moms, Shetamia Taylor, who shield her teenage son as that moment on, I mean the shooting into a crowd by Diamond Reynolds.

In the sad knowledge, a really sad knowledge that if she didn't have the courage and the wherewithal, the resourcefulness to record this into live stream it that this would probably be just in her boyfriend's name, no one would know her boyfriend's name. Mr. Castile, it would be another police life. And that -- the knowledge that she had that she would knew that would need video to be believe.

[08:44:58] PAUL: So Craig, let me ask you about that, about the video because that changed a lot of things for a lot of people in terms of the perspective that we have, in terms of the trust that you do or do not have in people and in what really did or did not happen. Know doubt about it. The fact that that woman have the wherewithal to take, to stay calm in that moment is beyond most people's understanding. Does that then, does that video change anything when it comes to how we move forward?

FUTTERMAN: I think it does. I think her courage and I think the -- after this some so many young people around the nation are making a difference because, you know, it's starts with them and it's difficult as these issues are.

The only way to address it is to first to acknowledge the reality of the problems. And the video is of course, the video and work like that Mr. Reynolds have voiced us all even our horror to how to come to grip with this reality and the reality of police abuse in black communities.

And it's only after we acknowledge that and deal and that we have the power to deal with that and deal with that honestly. So it also what she did gives me reason for hope as, and I don't want -- and I just -- I also just have to pause to take knowledge of heroism of the Dallas Police Department, these officers who were out there, who were protecting people who are standing up for their rights, and when the courage who run toward that gunfire to protect folks.

And I also just -- and this is what just hurts and I want to -- and it just leaves to policy step two. But just even in an area with so many policemen that the amount of harm that a single gunman could do, the amount of harm and we're talking about and we had a officer to retour survive, retours in Iraq shot and killed in America by a fellow veteran who served in Afghanistan. And I just can't say how sad that that makes me. PAUL: It is and I think that -- I think the rest of the country shares your grief and are owe at what is happened. And I know that you are trying to study something to try to figure out how to make a better. And Craig Futterman, we appreciate your thoughts and we're grateful for the work that you're doing, thank you for being here.

FUTTERMAN: Thank you so much for having me, Christi.

PAUL: Of course. Meanwhile of course the presidential candidates have something to say about the ambush in Dallas and the deaths of the two men, the black men in Minnesota and Louisiana after encounters with police.

We'll going to take a look with you at how the candidates are responding to these events.


[08:51:24] PAUL: After visiting Spain today, President Obama is cutting into European for sure, returning to Washington tomorrow so he can travel to Dallas that will be at the request of the city's mayor.

As for those who are running for president both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump canceled the campaign events yesterday. Here is what Hillary Clinton told Wolf Blitzer.


HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We need to be bringing people together and I have said on the campaign trail repeatedly, we need more love and kindness. And I know that's not usually what presidential candidates say but I believe it. And I'm going to be speaking about it from now all the way into the White House and beyond.


PAUL: Let's talk about the response to this week's violence, Raphael Warnock, Hillary Clinton supporter and senior pastor at Ebenezer Baptist Church with us now, as well as Amy Kremer, Donald Trump supporter and founder of Women Vote Trump, thank you both, so good to have you both with us today.

Amy, I'd like to with you if I could please. And part of the statement that Donald Trump released let's listen together here.


DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Too many Americans are living in terrible poverty and violence. We need jobs and we're going to produce those jobs. Racial divisions have gotten worse, not better.


PAUL: OK, here's the thing. He has been accused of in citing a lot of racial in equality and emotions. Does it seem a little disingenuous to hear that from him at this point?

AMY KREMER, CO-FOUNDER WOMEN VOTE TRUMP: I don't think so, I mean, he is concern about Americans that's one he is stepped up and is running to make America great again.

Well, this comes down to, you know, we need to respect each other. Where is the respect? Where is the love? Why was the answer to what happened in Minnesota and Louisiana, why wasn't it like Orlando when everybody came together and said, love will conquer hate. Why if Dallas didn't have to happen and I think that we do need to come together. We do need to talk to each other and have more conversations and respect each other.

And I live by the golden rule. You treat others the way you want to be treated. And I think that that's what we need to do more of in our everyday, daily lives.

PAUL: Raphael, Hillary Clinton has said we need to do more to look into implicit bias and we need to do more to respect and protect our police. These are the same things that we've been talking about for two years since Michael Brown was killed. How do we actually do that? She says it's time to get out there and actually make it happen.

RAPHAEL WARNOCK, SENIOR PASTOR, EBENEZER BAPTIST CHURCH: We've actually been talking about that a lot longer than that. We are focused to this weekend right, speak on this issue of police brutality.

My frustration is that too often when we talk about police brutality without dealing with mass incarceration. What happened this week in Louisiana and in Minnesota was tragic, predictable. I would argue inevitable. We have made a set of public policies, decisions in this country over the last 30 years. We are the incarceration capital of the world.

America warehouses 25 percent of the world's prisoners. You don't get to be the incarceration capital of the world by playing nice on the streets. And so argument about whether cops are good or bad misses the point.

The police officers in a real sense are called in wheel, like precious black families and black bodies every week, sometimes through physical death, over times there is social death in America's mass incarceration system. We need to hear more from our presidential candidates on how to respond to that reality.

[08:55:00] The police practice follows the public policy. Public policy has real consequences. So I was glad to hear Ms. Clinton say that we need more love and kindness. I think that is the appropriate response from a presidential candidate because justice is what love looks like in public.

PAUL: Well then, you know, there is something that, a post that Sarah Palin put on her Facebook page that has a lot of people talking today. And I want to show you this, she said in part "#BlackLivesMatter is a farce and hyphenating America destroys us. Self-description that put any race in front of being an American are now used to further divide our nation. It's time to acknowledge you're either an American under our system of equality, law and order and traditional patriotic spirit or you're not."

And we write that and still thought, you know, I mean is Sarah Palin even still relevant in this conversation with the -- for the GOP?

KREMER: I think Sarah Palin is relevant. And I understand where she's coming from. Look, at the end of the day, hate is something that is taught. I mean where does a 25-year-old get so much hate? That is concerning.

And look at what happened, I mean I thank god for, you know, these mobile phones we had now. I can't imagine had the woman in Minneapolis not have that camera with her and to hear that little girl. I mean this is a huge thing that is going on right now. And I think that we need to stop talking at each other and start talking with each other.

PAUL: OK, I have 15 seconds Raphael, literally.

WARNOCK: Well, unfortunately, Amy represents a candidate who is opening salvo as a candidate, wants to attack the whole group of people.

And so we do need more love, we do need more understanding. And this moment, this tragic as it is, provides us with that opportunity. Those police officers weren't killed because they were black, because they were bad. They were killed because they were blue. And black people live that reality every week.

PAUL: Raphael Warnock and Amy Kremer, we appreciate both of you being here. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us.

From Victor Blackwell in Dallas and myself thank you so much for spending sometime with us. We'll see you back here at 10:00 eastern for an hour of special coverage.

"SMERCONISH" is looking now.