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President Obama Is Going To Travel To Dallas; The Protest Escalating During A March Down The I-94 Freeway; A Town Hall Hosted By A Mega Pastor T.D. Jakes. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired July 10, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:50] SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN HOST: Hello. Thanks for joining me. I'm Suzanne Malveaux. Fredricka Whitfield is off today.

President Obama is going to travel to Dallas. This is on Tuesday, deliver remarks that an interfaith memorial service for the five officers killed in last week's ambush. This, as a third night of protests erupt against police brutality. More than 250 people arrested around the country, half of those out of from Baton Rouge, Louisiana. That is where Louisiana governor John Bel Edwards is hosting a news conference just in the next hour to address security concerns after peaceful demonstrations turned violent overnight. We are going to bring you that news conference live as soon as it happens.

Also, in St. Paul, Minnesota, protesters -- some protesters launching fireworks, rocks, steel bars at police, 21 officers injured. They eventually deployed smoke bombs, flash bangs and tear gas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can't stop the revolution!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can't stop the revolution!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: In Chicago and New York, hundreds of protesters blocking traffic, 20 people taken into custody in Manhattan. More of that all coming up.

But first, Dallas police Chief David Brown, he is pushing back against those who have questioned the department's use of a bomb robot to kill the shooter. Now Brown says the gunman was wounded but determined to hurt more officers, even singing and taunting police negotiators.

CNN's Ed Lavandera, he is live in Dallas.

And Ed, the chief, really, an amazing interview laying out extraordinary new details about what happened in the aftermath of that shooting when his (INAUDIBLE) just basically killed. And what went into the decision of how to end all of this which for some people, this is controversial. ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It has been. And it was a

fascinating interview, Suzanne. A wide-ranging interview covering a lot of different ground, including the details about the messages that the killer was writing in his own blood just before he was killed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Micah Johnson improvised his way through Thursday's night attack with deadly precision. Dallas Police chief David Brown says that killer drove a black SUV through downtown streets to get ahead of the march in protesters and quickly found a way to shoot at officers from inside El Centro College. The unsuspecting officers on the ground were essentially trapped in the cross-hairs of Johnson's firearms.

CHIEF DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE: They went a funnel. He ended up being a fatal funnel there and then the suspect continued to move and shoot from different angles from the high-perched position and then down to street level and then back up to the high-perched position, at really diagonally almost triangulating our officers with this rapid fire.

LAVANDERA: Brown says the killer used a shoot a move tactic changing locations and shooting from different directions in rapid succession, perhaps the kind of training he learned during his time in the army and wrote about in a journal about combat tactics found in Johnson's home.

BROWN: We don't normally see this type of moving and shooting from criminal suspects. We are convinced that the military-style was a plan and that he practiced this.

LAVANDERA: In a revealing interview with CNN's Jake Tapper, Chief Brown also provided chilling new details about the final moments as Dallas police officers cornered the killer inside the second floor building of El Centro College. Officers were exchanging gunfire with him.

BROWN: At the scene where he was killed, there was some -- he wrote some lettering in blood on the wall, which leads us to believe that he was wounded on the way up the stairwell on the second floor of the El Centro building and where we detonated the device to end the standoff, there was more lettering written in his own blood.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: What did he write?

BROWN: We are trying to decipher that but he wrote the letters, RB.

TAPPER: RB

BROWN: RB, yes. So we are trying to figure out through looking at things in his home what those initials mean. But we haven't determine that yet.

[15:05:10] LAVANDERA: At this point, Micah Johnson is engaged in a two-hour standoff. Chief Brown says the negotiations were going nowhere. While shooting at police officers, Johnson told police he would only speak with a black negotiator and remained in control yet delusional at the same time.

BROWN: And he just basically lied to us, playing games, laughing at us, singing, asking how many did he get and that he wanted to kill some more and that there were bombs there. And so there was no progress on the negotiation. And I began to feel that it was only in a split second he would charge us and take out many more before we would kill him.

LAVANDERA: That's when Chief Brown says he asked the Dallas police SWAT team to come up with a creative and safe way of ending the standoff.

BROWN: We saw no other option but to use our bomb robot and place the device on its extension to detonate where the suspect was.

Reporter: Brown says the killer was hidden behind a corner and snipers could not get a clear shot. The decision to use a robot armed with c-4 explosives has been criticized by some law enforcement analysts but Chief Brown says he would make the same call again.

BROWN: You have to trust your people to make the calls necessary to save their lives. It's their lives at stake, not these critics who are in the comfort of their homes or offices. So, you know, that's not worth my time to debate at this point. We believe that we save lives by making this decision. And you know, again, I appreciate critics but they are not on the ground and their lives are not being put at risk by debating what tactic to take.

LAVANDERA: This week, Chief David Brown will prepare to attend the funerals of five of his Dallas police officers.

BROWN: The law enforcement community hurting. We are all grieving, not just here in Dallas but all over the country. And words matter. And we need to hear that you appreciate what we do for this country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA: And Suzanne, one other thing that the chief also says that investigators continue to take a closer look at, this idea that perhaps he had even a bigger plot to cause more damage and danger and death. They said, based on the large cache of weapons that was found in his house, they do believe he perhaps had a bigger plot in mind but they don't know why he switched to this particular attack. So that's one of the things that investigators continue to look for clues and analyze as well - Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Yes. There is so much to unpack there.

Ed, thank you so much. We really appreciate it. Very good job.

I want to bring in our panel of law enforcement analyst, former assistant FBI director Tom Fuentes, and DeKalb county public safety director, Cedric Alexander. He is also the author of the new book. It is called "the new guardians." Thank you, gentlemen.

Tom to you. First of all, there is something that I want to address and clarify here. Because I don't understand, what is the push back, the criticism for using a robot with this device in terms of taking out this individual? I mean, it seems like they made that decision and it seemed like it worked very well.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It was a perfect decision getting on circumstances.

Suzanne, I was a SWAT team member, as an FBI agent, a leader, a SWAT commander and on scene commander. I was one of the tactical commanders for the FBI at the Olympics in 1996 in Atlanta and I can tell you that in this situation, that chief of police is an obligation to his officers and public after a negotiations were going nowhere was to terminate that incident and terminate the individual causing the incident. That shooter had two hours to surrender, chose not to and so the chief is faced with if this guy comes rushing out, shooting at the police, he is going to have more dead officers. And during the negotiations, the shooter said he wanted to kill more officers. He also said he had explosives. So if you charge him, you might get your officers blown up by an explosive detonation and he didn't have to worry about hostages or have problems with that.

I have heard people self-reporters refer to, well, maybe they could have lobbed in tear gas. Maybe they could have done this. Tear gas would create a giant cloud and then his officers would lose the ability to see this guy if he came out. He would have the cloud for his protection if he launched an attack against the cops. And you know, I keep hearing these references that law enforcement people are criticizing this decision. Who? Name them. Get them on the air and let a couple of us debate with them. I know the chief doesn't want to get into a debate with them. I will be happy to.

[15:10:13] MALVEAUX: All right. Cedric, I know there's a lot of passion around this and, of course, I mean, there is debate as well. But tell us about his military experience and how that complicated the situation. Because we know that he was involved in this kind of very deliberate, very tactical way of moving about when he was up high and then when he was crossing the streets, the blocks as he was going. What was he doing? And how did that really complicate the situation?

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I think it's going to be interesting once they do a further background on him in the military, what his training was. And in addition to that, what was his mental health in the military going in, doing his time and coming out and particularly coming out. And that's going to really tell us a lot about what his motivation may have been because I suspect, here again, this is someone who was mentally and psychologically and emotionally unstable and probably had these instabilities for some time. If you remember, some of the very early reporting was that he was pretty much a recluse, very much aloof to himself, which would suggest to me as a psychologist probably someone who may be struggling with some form of PTSD or some depression. But if we go back here for a moment in terms of what you were just talking about as it relates to this robot and the c-4 --

MALVEAUX: Sure.

ALEXANDER: Look, Chief Brown has not even buried his officers yet. And it's a community there in Dallas where I used to live just three years ago that is still grieving. And for people to be complaining and asking this question in a time and history of this country and in this city that you have so much trauma, so much death, so much mayhem and to question that chief's ability to make the decision that he had to make and to live with, it's just wrong. And I'll put it that way. And I certainly do agree with Tom.

If there are persons out there who feel something different should have been done, then they should come on this program so Tom and I can challenge him. Chief Brown can't but I can and I will. I'm a 40-year police veteran and I have seen these situations before. No one wanted to put their men and women in harm's way. If there have been another way to resolve this, I'm quite sure they would have done it. But we he to be very careful not to begin to criticize a very critical decision that occurred at a time that none of us would have ever expected. He or anyone else would have to make that type of decision.

But that's a decision he made, it saves lives. It saved the lived of his officers. Had he gotten out of that barricaded situation, he could have gotten back out into the community and continue to carry out his threat and killed other people. So it may not be what we are used to hearing in terms of terminating this type of threat, but that was an unusual situation that required a great deal of unusual response. And that's what we got.

Because I think it's important that we be very fair, very balanced but there is kin, there would be something to be learned from this, I'm quite sure. But let's let the dust settle. Let's let the bodies get buried. Let's respect the officers who gave their lives and those who were injured and then let's go back and look and reassess. But to criticize at this point, this early in this very tragic event, it's wrong. And I say it publicly and then I'll say it privately.

MALVEAUX: Well stated there. And I want to bring in Tom, just another point from this interview --.

FUENTES: If I could add to that, Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Sure. Go ahead.

FUENTES: It would be one thing to criticize the decision if it had a bad outcome. It had a perfect outcome. The only person that should have died, died. You had no loss of life of the innocent officers. If the explosive would have brought the garage down on top of all those negotiators and SWAT team members, if there was some other terrible outcome of that decision, that would be one thing to discuss. But when it worked perfectly and the whole entire critical murderous incident was terminated in that incident, I just don't see the criticism.

MALVEAUX: Tom, thank you very much. Cedric as well. We are going to have a lot more to discuss as the program continues.

There's a lot to unpack there. But thanks again. Really appreciate that.

And the president, of course, is going to be attending a memorial service in Dallas that is happening on Tuesday. Right now he is flying back from Europe after making a brief stopover in Spain. He was there to visit U.S. troops at a naval base. And before that he met with the Spanish king, the prime minister but he also spoke about the Dallas police ambush.

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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Whenever those of us who are concerned about fairness in the criminal justice system attack police officers, you are doing a disservice to the cause.

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[15:15:01] MALVEAUX: The Dallas killings compel the president to cut short his European trip short. Again, he is going to be in Dallas, that is on Tuesday for a memorial service for those fallen officers.

And ahead --

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Micah Johnson was visiting, liking and absorbing messages that could have inspired him not just to hate but to strike.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: A CNN exclusive report with new information about the Dallas gunman.

And then hundreds of arrests as protest continue around the country. Scenes in St. Paul now what reminiscent of Ferguson.

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[15:18:45] MALVEAUX: Before Micah Johnson went on his deadly rampage, gunning down five officers in Dallas, he was online. A lot, actually. He was there. This is what he did. And what he did is giving us some clues about what might have motivated his vicious attack.

Our senior investigative correspondent Drew Griffin has been looking into that aspect of the story. He is joining us now from Dallas with exclusive details.

So Drew, what have do we know? What have we learned about his online activity?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Suzanne, this is a very familiar pattern that we have seen in lone Wolf ISIS-style attacks where these domestic terrorists are consuming the radical Islamic hate sites that are produced overseas. But what we are seeing here is just slightly different and slightly

even more disturbing. Could that hate speech be spreading domestically? As police continue to look for clues, they are looking for the online presence and internet access that Micah Johnson was having with what many considered to be hate groups here in the United States.

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GRIFFIN: His Facebook page was covered with the black nationalist symbolism. But black liberation flag, his photo fist-raised in a black power salute. CNN has been speaking with a former friend of Johnson who says the Dallas police killer was disturbed not just by recent police killings of black men but on the history of violence against his race.

Johnson repeatedly viewed the videotape police beating of Rodney King, the friend told CNN. And he knew everything about the history of Martin Luther King assassinations and the teachings and murder of Malcolm X.

And through his electronic finger prints, it's clear Micah Johnson was visiting, liking and absorbing messages that could have inspired him not just to hate but to describing. The friend who wants to remain anonymous says Johnson was a good, black man with a little bit of an anger problem.

That combination of history, pride and anger is visible when you scroll through Micah Johnson's Facebook "likes." Captured by CNN, they showed the shooter visited and like a multitude of African- American groups, black lives matter, African-American history, alternative afro centric news sites, the new black panthers, sites devoted to covering the experience of blacks in the United States.

But you also come across these, groups that espouse more than just black awareness or empowerment but hate and violence. The African- American defense league is one of them. Shortly after news broke of a black man being killed in Baton Rouge this week, the AADL posted then deleted this called arms, calling on the gangs across the nation to attack everything in blue.

The postings are similar to what led to this nationwide alert issued by the FBI on Thursday. A warning to all law enforcement that attacks on police were being called for with images so graphic of cops being killed, CNN has chosen not to repeat them. One shows an artistic version of an officer's throat being cut, similar to ISIS-style propaganda.

J.M. BERGER, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Certainly they are putting out incendiary content and somebody who is inclined towards violence is reading that, they may fixate on that content as reasons to take action.

GRIFFIN: J.M. Berger studies extremist groups for the George Washington University. He knows the FBI is monitoring sites like these, while he says they haven't risen to the level of actual terrorists, he is troubled where the sites may be headed.

BERGER: So, you know, we don't see the same kind of enforcement action against white nationalists and black nationalists that we see against jihadists groups and that's probably going to be an impending problem for us. What we do see is that extremist groups at all times are getting on the internet more. They are exploiting the lesson (INAUDIBLE) ISIS' success.

GRIFFIN: Almost like a page from the ISIS playbook, domestic hate sites are making Micah Johnson a martyr. This, from the site devoted to the teachings of Elijah Mohammed. Rest in peace, this site declares of the murdered. He stood up to injustice.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: What we don't know yet, Suzanne, is whom or if he was communicating any of these thoughts with anybody on the internet or whether he was just consuming this information and processing it internally and inspired him to strike - Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: And Drew, what you're learning about him, I want to be clear about it, be precise. In terms of the groups that he was following, because some are simply cultural awareness groups and pride and have nothing to do with hate. How much of that, in the context of what he was viewing online and participating in were these extremist groups versus just kind of overall cultural awareness and groups that were, you know, prideful of their background?

GRIFFIN: Yes. I mean, that's a good call. He was like a lot of Americans. He was online. He was looking at things like the weather forecast. He was looking at things like call of duty, the war games site. We don't know the frequency. We don't have that kind of specificity in our reporting because we don't have access to his computer. We only know that he visited and liked these Facebook sites, we know what they have said, we know that police have issued warnings in general to the entire law enforcement community about that - Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: All right. Drew, thank you so much. Appreciate that.

Coming up, peaceful protest now turning violence when fireworks block (INAUDIBLE) at some in St. Paul. We have a live report up next.

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[15:28:18] MALVEAUX: Demonstrators in several major cities are planning to hit the streets again to protest shootings of African- American men. More than 100 people were arrested in St. Paul, Minnesota. That happens overnight. The protest escalating during a march down the I-94 freeway. Now, Demonstrators, some of them launching fireworks, rocks and steel bars at the police. Officers then responding with tear gas. Twenty-one police officers were injured.

The next hour, Louisiana governor John Bel Edwards is going to hold a news conference on the unrest that is taking place in Baton Rouge. We are going to take you there live, of course. And demonstrators taking to the streets of that city yesterday protesting the killing of Alton Sterling by a white police officer on Tuesday, 125 people were arrested there.

Our CNN's Nick Valencia, he has the very latest now from Baton Rouge.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Suzanne, the demonstrations against police in Baton Rouge on Saturday night were tense. One hundred and twenty-five people were arrested. The most of any march in the United States. And while the level of violence was virtually nonexistent compared to other marches in the country, at least one police officer was hit with the rock by a protester. According to Louisiana state colonel Mike Edmonson, five guns, at least five guns were recovered from the demonstrators.

With no planned protests for Sunday, the focus is on grieving for Alton Sterling's family, the 37-year-old black male who was killed at the hands of two white police officers. Funeral arrangements for Sterling have still yet to be finalized - Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Thanks, nick.

We want to bring in our Rosa Flores. She is joining us from St. Paul.

And Rosa, you and I talked in the last hour and we talked about how it started off as a peaceful protest and then it turned violent. What is the city preparing for tonight and are there people who are out there who are saying, look, you know what, this is not going to go on another evening, this is going to stay peaceful. We are going to get our point across in a way that people will really emphasize?

[15:30:17] ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Suzanne, there's been a lot of very intense moments. As you know, after the death of Philando Castile, there were a lot of emotions in this community. I want to get what happened overnight. There were several protests that culminated into violence, protesters throwing rebar, rocks, bottles, and Molotov cocktails at police officers and those police officers ended up hurt. Authorities say that 21 police officers were hurt, six of those are state troopers. Some of them were in the hospital overnight. Some of them are still in the hospital.

I talked to a commander who tells me that they are doing better today and that these are nonlife threatening injuries. Just to give you a sense of some of these injuries, this commander tells me that one of the police officers, a bottle was thrown to his face. It sliced his chin. Another police officer, a rock was thrown towards his face. He tried to block it with his hand and his hand got cut. And of course, politicians here, community leaders are very concerned about what has happened in their community. Here's what the mayor had to say.

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MAYOR CHRIS COLEMAN, ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA: What happened last night and early this morning does a disservice to those that have lost their lives this last week, whether it was Philando Castile in Falcon Heights or the officers in Dallas. This is not about grief this is not about protests. This is about rioting. This is about violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Now, as we take another live look right now, you can see that this is a very peaceful protest. And for the most part that's what we have seen here in Minneapolis and St. Paul, very peaceful protests. People just coming together, embracing, hugging. But again, there is a lot of emotion. I stopped by a church earlier today. And the pastor there tells me that the messages in churches today in Minnesota have been the shooting death of Philando Castile, about how the community can heal.

And Suzanne, these are deep wounds in this community. And so it's going to take time but some of the community church leaders are also coming together to make sure that this community can heal - Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: And Rosa, I'm just curious what they were chanting behind you there. They were leading in some sort of chant. What were they saying?

FLORES: You know, they have been doing some -- several chants here since Philando Castile was shot and killed. And I'll let you listen in just a little bit so that you can -- so that our viewers can take this in.

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[15:36:40] MALVEAUX: Today in Dallas, there was a town hall hosted by a mega pastor T.D. Jakes. He brought together families of African- American men killed by police as well as the mayor. The town hall also heard from one Dallas police officer who talked about the impact of losing five of his fellow officers.

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CORPORAL JUSTIN BRANDT, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: It gets really tough because your brothers in blue, male, female, white, black or Hispanic, it does not matter. We are all brothers in blue. You're going to hear that. I have my family and I have an extended family in blue, OK. And you are in details with them. You work with these guys, men and women, all the time. And it's tough when you see one go. It's just hard. It's a family member.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: T.D. Jakes, the man who put together the town hall is an influential spiritual and political figure of the city of Dallas. His voice often heard far beyond the city itself.

CNN's Victor Blackwell joining us now.

And Victor, you and I both know that he has incredible influence and sway among many groups, but particularly within the African-American community. And you had a chance to sit down and talk with him. Tell us how this came about and why he felt this was important at this time.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Suzanne. We sat right there in the pews of the potter house. The 30,000 member mega church here in Dallas. And actually, my producer, (INAUDIBLE), I have to give him credit for suggesting that we have this conversation because, as you said, his voice reverberates here around the city and really around the world. And when we are dealing with issues that not only impact the city of Dallas but the nation and the national conversation that we're having, it just made to have that conversation.

Again, 30,000 members of that church. So in addition to questions of faith, members go to him with questions about race relations, police relations, relations inside the community and beyond. We started with the question about what he felt and thought as he watched the breaking news coverage of what was happening in his city on Thursday night.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BISHOP T.D. JAKES, SENIOR PASTOR, THE POTTER'S HOUSE: It was a bit shocking to me. You know, it was horrible. I mean, the demonstration had been calm and peaceful and the relationship between the demonstrators and the police had been amicable and then out of the blue this crisis comes and rattles our city down to its very core.

BLACKWELL: There will be inevitably, and there are people right now Sunday morning asking the question why is this happening? How could this happen? Maybe, how could God let this happen? What do you tell those people?

JAKES: You know, God didn't pull that trigger. One of the great things about those of us who believe in God is that he gives us free will. And generally it works in our favor but occasionally it works against us when somebody's will decides to make a choice that is detrimental to humanity and such was the case here in Dallas.

BLACKWELL: Young black men, the concern that they are being targeted by police, to those young men in your congregation, what do you tell them?

JAKES: I mean, first of all, I have three sons. I have two daughters. And you have the same talk with your parishioners that you have with your children, to be very, very careful and be respectful and not allow your temper to overwhelm you and yet there's a certain degree of worry that goes along with it. It is not the police that we're afraid of. We need the police in our communities, like anybody else. It is those particular officers who are either not well-trained or should never have been selected in the first place. It's not what happens in the mainstream. It's what happens on the isolated back roads that makes me concerned.

[15:40:24] BLACKWELL: With so many thousands of members of the Potter House, this congregation, you, of course, have members of law enforcement.

JAKES: Absolutely.

BLACKWELL: How do you counsel those police officers?

JAKES: You know, I have had the privilege of speaking for the black association of police officers from time to time. It's a really tough job. And there are a lot of good police officers who really give up themselves unselfishly every day. It's a precious of job without the (INAUDIBLE) of being targeted like this, not becomes even more difficult for them to do their job.

I think that it is possible to have great respect for the police department and still be able to hold them accountable when designated individuals go awry because for some reason in our country, we think that if you are concerned about sidewalk justice, which is what I call it, then you are disloyal to the police officers. But the two notions are not mutually exclusive. It's possible to hold them accountable and still respect the ones who are heroic every day.

BLACKWELL: You're a man whose face is recognizable, famous, some would say, but are you ever concerned if you're pulled over by an officer about your safety if they don't know that they've just pulled over T.D. Jakes?

JAKES: I've had experiences in my life.

BLACKWELL: Tell me about that.

JAKES: I've had experiences where I was pulled over, badly handled or mistreated. I have had experiences where my sons were pulled over and calling me on the phone screaming and crying and I'm scared to death that something to happen because I don't know which kind of police officer pulled him over, the good one or the bad one. There are lots of good ones but suppose the odds are against us and we get some police officer who may not actually be a bad person but in a split second make as bad decision. You don't have to be a bad person to make a bad decision. That happens. What we are concerned about is when that does happen, why does the criminal justice system look the other way? OK.

You can't totally control -- there are bad reporters, bad preachers who were good people in my profession. That's human. But our systems need to be of such that there's an accountability and there are consequences for bad choices. Just like there are for all of us. That same reality needs to also be true for the police department.

BLACKWELL: This is a city you've lived in for how long?

JAKES: Twenty years.

BLACKWELL: Twenty years. What do you feel when you've looked back the last couple of days after the shooting and what we've seen at the Dallas police department, people bringing flowers, bringing cards, bringing notes and stopping to just thank and in some cases embrace members of law enforcement.

JAKES: First of all, I'm very proud of our city. We have a long ways to go but overall I'm proud of our city. We have problems. We have a lot of problems. But you must realize that what happened in Dallas is not a reflection of the city of Dallas itself because the march was successful. The police was protective. This is one individual. And I think it would be a travesty for us to think that Dallas is in an uproar because of the divide that exists between our communities. There is a divide but that isn't why it happened. This was an individual choice, for whatever reason, that shook our city black and white to its core.

This particular Sunday, I hope to sit down with some of the victims from Baton Rouge and we're working to bring in the family from Milwaukee to talk to them on stage and to talk to my congregation because I realize that my congregation because I have realized that my congregation is traumatized, all of Dallas is traumatized, both black and white. And this is an opportunity to bring healing individually and collectively so we can go back to the business of being better -- for the betterment of Dallas and work on being better as brothers and officers. We haven't mastered that.

The reality is, this gunshot, series of shots and the death of good police officers, the explosion of somebody's child because of the choice he made, cuts me to the core. That young man, as horrendous as what he did may have been, that's somebody's child. And we're in the business of healing. It is a tragedy that the purpose of the march got distracted by the choice of one individual.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[15:45:03] BLACKWELL: In the business of healing you hear there from bishop Jakes. And as he said, beginning that healing is to have the ability of having the simultaneous conversations that have been so difficult to have over the last several days, to talk about what happened here in Dallas but also to talk about what we saw in Minnesota and Louisiana and to have some empathy and understanding when having those conversations, Suzanne.

A really valuable voice, not just for the city of Dallas, as you know, and we discussed at the top, but really across the country as we continue.

MALVEAUX: That's right. And he brings up such a good point of like really having to talk with his own family, his own sons about how do you make sense of all of this and everybody to be safe in the community, that they are traumatized at this time. And it's a long process to heal.

Victor, thank you so much. It is an excellent conversation with the pastor and the city of Dallas.

As the pastor mentioned, it has really been tested and so has this country. And you know, the questions are, what do we do next? How do we even move forward? I'm going to talk to a long-time Dallas resident about all of that, up next.

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[15:50:01] MALVEAUX: The people of Dallas are living today with a new kind of grief after five police officers were gunned down in an ambush Thursday night.

I want you to take a look at this. This is the front page of today's "Dallas Morning News." The single image there showing a community's overwhelming sadness. It's the first time the paper has run a front- page editorial since the 9/11 attacks. And the article says quote, I'm going to read a little bit of you of a teardrop.

"More than 50 years ago madness struck like a lightning bolt and cut down our nation's president, leaving shadows that lingered for generations. Thursday night another kind of lightning flashed across our horizon and plunged our city into a new kind of grief and brought fear back to the place we call home."

People coming together since the massacre showing their support for the police, creating this makeshift memorial over two police cars. You see it there. And the question so many are asking today is how does the community even start to move forward after this tragedy.

And joining us now, longtime Dallas resident Beth Goff-McMillan. She is a mother. She is a businesswoman. She is also a dear friend.

Beth, it is good to see you. But I'm sorry to say under these circumstances. Because I know I see your daughter there who is 12, and I know you have a 15-year-old son. And I just got to start by asking you what do they come with you, you know? What do they come to you with, the questions that they are asking you to explain what has happened in the last week?

BETH GOFF-MCMILLAN, DALLAS RESIDENT: Suzanne, it's not so much question. It's they're talking about it. They are talking emotions more than they're asking questions. And we have been very open about what's taking place. We watched it together as a family. I think they're confused, but it's definitely more a sense of emotions, fear, scared. They don't understand the hatred.

MALVEAUX: And what is the fear? What are they afraid of? What are you afraid of? I mean, how do you feel about being in Dallas now?

GOOF-MCMILLAN: You know, it's sad. I mean, I was overwhelmed with emotion when we walked up to the memorial today. I was kind of surprised at how emotional I felt, but a sense of pride for this city. I don't think I've ever been more proud to be a Dallas resident. I'm not afraid to be here or to be in the street, but I am very proud of how the local officials have handled this, how the police chief has handled this. I'm very proud of the DPD and the fact that no citizen was injured in the chaos that happened on Thursday night. I'm just really proud as how the city is handling itself.

MALVEAUX: And Beth, talk a little bit about how you're explaining to your family, how you're experiencing this, your family, in the actions that led up to the execution of these police officers, that there were two African-American men who were also killed earlier in the week.

GOOF-MCMILLAN: You know, we actually watched the Facebook feed of Castile. We watched that together and we spoke about it. And their eyes welled with tears to hear the fear of his girlfriend, to hear the daughter support her mother. And we listened to that. And we talked about that. And I wanted them to understand the fears that others have that we don't. We talked openly about all of that.

Anything that happens on the news, we watch together, and we have open dialogue. I think the best thing that I can do as a parent is allow them to hear all sides. To hear every side of the table, every side of the issue, what led up to this, what's happening now. And then, you know, how do we move forward?

And listening to even T.D. Jakes today and some of what's come out in the media on his suggestions and, you know, how he's trying to bring the city back together.

MALVEAUX: All right. Well, Beth, thank you so much. I really appreciate your perspective. I know there are a lot of parents who have kids that are trying to make sense of it all and explain it to them. And I know that your kids have a great deal of empathy and sympathy for all of the people and that you are working very hard to try to heal during this time.

So Beth, appreciate it, again.

GOOF-MCMILLAN: Thank you thank you very much.

MALVEAUX: Ahead, the Dallas shooter's journals. The bloody letter on the wall. And the ramblings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had negotiated with him for about two hours, and he just basically lying to us, playing games, laughing at us, singing, asking how many did he get and that he wanted to kill some more and that there were bombs there. So there was no progress on the negotiation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:55:11] MALVEAUX: More from this revealing exclusive interview with the Dallas police chief, David Brown, up next.

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[15:59:03] MALVEAUX: Hello. Thanks for joining me. I'm Suzanne Malveaux. Fredricka Whitfield is off today.

We are seeing protesters in several major cities planning to hit the streets again tonight. More than 260 people arrested around the country on Saturday. Half of those out of Baton Rouge, Louisiana. That is where governor John Bell Edwards is going to speak any moment now to address the security concerns after peaceful demonstrations turned violent overnight. We are going to bring you that news conference live as soon as it happens.

Also in St. Paul, Minnesota, protesters launching fireworks, rocks, steel bars at police, 21 officers were injured. They eventually deployed smoke bombs, flash bangs and tear gas. (VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)

MALVEAUX: In Chicago and New York, hundreds of protesters blocking traffic. Twenty people taken into custody in Manhattan there. President Obama is going to travel to Dallas. That is on Tuesday. He is going to deliver remarks at an interfaith memorial service for the five officers killed in last week's protest ambush.

We are also learning new details about the moments --