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Sniper Suspected of Planning Larger Attack; Dallas Deputy Police Chief Talks to CNN; Dallas Gunman Followed Black Hate Groups Online; Protesters March in DC, Boston After Police Shootings; Dallas Church Prays for Healing After Violent Attack; Interview with DeRay Mckesson; Interview with Michael Daly; Interview with Julian Zelizer; Interview with Jacquielynn Floyd. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired July 10, 2016 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:08] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Seven o'clock Eastern. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Poppy Harlow joining you in New York this Sunday evening.

And tonight Police Departments around the country remain on edge after a weekend that saw sometimes violent protests and deep uncertainty over the state of deep race relations in this country. It is an issue that will remain in the spotlight ahead of President Obama's visit to Dallas on Tuesday to grieve five murdered police officers. The Dallas police chief revealing to CNN in an exclusive interview today that the sniper who took the lives of his fellow officers was actually planning a much larger attack on both the city and on North Texas, this evidence -- a journal and bomb making materials inside of the gunman's home that revealed he was practicing how to detonate explosives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: We're convinced that this suspect had other plans and thought that what he was doing was righteous and believed that he was going to make law enforcement and target law enforcement, make us pay for what he sees as law enforcement's efforts to punish people of color.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: And that is not the only revelation that came today. Chief David Brown also told our Jake Tapper that the killer laughed and sang while police desperately trying to negotiate with him, at one point saying he wanted to kill more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: We had negotiated with him for about two hours. An he just basically lying to us, playing games, laughing at us, singing, asking how many did he get and that he wanted to kill some more and that there were bombs there. So there was no progress on the negotiation. And I began to feel that it was only at a split second he would charge us and take out many more before we would kill him.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: Ultimately police would make the unprecedented decision to send in a robot rigged with a bomb to take the suspect out. A decision that Chief Brown is firmly standing behind.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And I approved it. And I'll do it again if presented with the same circumstances.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Could something else have been used other than a bomb that would have killed the shooter, obviously in a situation like that law enforcement has every right and ability to take out the shooter any way he can but could, for instance, some sort of riot gas have been used instead of something that killed the gunman?

BROWN: I just don't give much quarter to critics who ask these types of questions from the comforts and safety away from the incident. You have to be on the ground and try and determine. I have former S.W.A.T. experience here in Dallas. And you have to trust your people to make the calls necessary to save their lives. It's their lives that are at stake, not these critics' lives who are in the comforts of their homes or offices.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: There are still some mysteries for police to solve. Among them is the message written in blood in the gunman's own blood in his final moments. The letters "RB." Police still do not know what that stands for.

Joining me now is the deputy police chief of the Dallas Police Department, Malik Aziz. Thank you for being with us, sir. And thank you for all that you and your fellow officers have done.

DEPUTY CHIEF MALIK AZIZ, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: Thank you.

HARLOW: Let's talk about last night. Certainly a scare, a lockdown at Dallas Police Headquarters. This is just days after the ambush on Thursday night. As your department heads into the week ahead, what's your message to your officers? What do you tell them?

AZIZ: Well, I think the message coming down from -- I heard my chief, Chief David Brown, talking earlier. I think the message is really one of let's continue to be safe. Our hearts are very heavy. We're feeling the pain. The city is hurting. And our officers are so professional that they know they have to go out and do their job. And some of our officers have yet to fully grieve in such this tragic, you know, horrifically event that took place here. And so our message is for them to put one foot in front of the other and grieve properly and be the honorable men and women they are, just as the brave officers who gave their lives for the city and for law enforcement the other night, so courageous.

So we're just asking our officers to be very vigilant and stay in tune with our chief of police who has provided a great example of leadership during this horrific time along with our Mayor Mike Rawlings and Dallas is standing tall and our officers are very proud of that, that we're going to be a shining light for the world and we're going to find some silver lining and honor our brothers, our fallen brothers properly in the coming days and we'll never forget them. We will never forget them.

[19:05:13] HARLOW: And Deputy Chief, as much as you feel comfortable sharing, without their names, of course, but what are some of the officers said to you? I can only imagine there's got to be some fear, some angst, some confusion, some mixed emotions as they head into work every day to protect and serve?

AZIZ: Well, as you can imagine, in this job, you know, right behind me is a memorial and a testament to the citizens who love us, the business and residential community of Dallas and North Texas, in the nation and around the world are sending gifts, they're showering us, our officers, it's a thankless job most of the time. But most of the days of the year we hardly ever hear thank you. So, these officers are very appreciative of that and they're feeling the love and the kindness that are shown their way in this very tragic time.

So our officer, what we're telling them and what we're telling the world is prop us up and keep us in your prayers and continue to support law enforcement. It doesn't mean for what we went through in the past couple of days, that we should turn away from it. We should embrace the officers and let them know just what we feel about them. In your city, in this city and cities around the world that being a thankless job, it's not easy. And we need to hear that.

Law enforcement needs to hear, Dallas police officers need to hear a message from the world that we love you and we care about you and that doesn't stop anyone from caring about anything else or any other event or any other group or any other issue. But we have to band together. And we have to show a united front with each other, police and community working together. And these officers, they are the best that you'll see, the finest that you'll see in law enforcement is not without its flaws. It's not without its failures. We strive to be 100 percent, just like any other group or group of citizens, we're not perfect.

And no officer is and no police department is. So we just want to show the world that what we have to give and that we're a very community oriented community policing and engagement type organization, and we want the rest of the world to feel us and see us and look at us as a practical and progressive model in policing and events like this should never happen. Events like this should never happen.

HARLOW: President Obama will visit your city on Tuesday. He will speak at an interfaith memorial service. What do you want to hear from the President? What do your officers want and need to hear from the President?

AZIZ: I think it's very nobody of any sitting president to come to your city even under tragic circumstances that it seems that he is all too familiar with. So the President coming to the city, we will embrace it. Our city government embrace it. Our officers. We need to see the leader of the free world, the person who leads this country and offers us directions, what we want to hear him say to the families is that he loves them and he supports them and he supports law enforcement and he'll be there in the long ride for us and he wants us to embrace 21st Century policing, he wants to call for a real national conversion on race and police brutality.

He wants to be here for us as the leader of the free world should. That's what these officers want to hear. Our hearts again are very heavy, so the President, he evolve people, he's been around this country and through terrible incidents. He should know that and understand that. And we want to hug him and embrace him and we want to hear those words from him.

HARLOW: Let me read you Deputy Chief, some of the messages that have been left outside of the Dallas Police Headquarters. One reads, "You will not be forgotten. We will never forget your sacrifice." Another reads, "Dearest officers, we heart you and will never forget you. Rest in eternal peace." Another reads, "I stand by the blue. Thank you all for everything. You're my hero." #Backtotheblue. These are words from all over your city today. What's your response?

AZIZ: My response to the city and the world is Dallas, we love you. The rest of the world, Texas, across this country, United Kingdom, places that I've gotten messages from, places that -- things I read behind me is that we love you, we thank you, we need you, we need for you to be with us. We need you to embrace us. My message to them from the men and women who I talked to from every day the people who have shared with me in this ideas and thoughts in this terrible tragic event is that they want to move forward with law enforcement. They love the community. And we want to let the world know that we love our city and we love our community and policing is in our hearts.

[19:10:14] We are brave men and women. And we put our lives on the line. And we're not out here for chaos or habit and we have no room for any one of us who wants to demonstrate that. So behind me is a memorial and a testament to the people who love us. I just want to ask that they keep loving us and they keep telling the world that law enforcement means something in this country that we can argue and debate beautifully and we don't have to have a violent means as to an end. It means a lot to us. It will mean a lot to this city and it would mean a lot to law enforcement across the world.

HARLOW: Debate beautifully. Very well said. Deputy Chief Malik Aziz, thank you so much.

AZIZ: Thank you for having me.

HARLOW: As Dallas grieves its lost officers, the Assist the Officer Foundation or ATO has established a fund for the victims' families. You can donate, help those left behind at atodallas.org.

Coming up next, new evidence that the Dallas gunman was visiting, liking, absorbing messages on hate websites. Was he radicalized online? We'll talk about that. Also, the fiancee of a man killed during a traffic stop streamed online speaks out at a very emotional town hall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND REYNOLDS, GIRLFRIEND OF PHILANDO CASTILE: And if I can change anything from that night, it was never to take that route. Because if we wouldn't have never been in the wrong place in the wrong time. None of this would have happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:14:29] HARLOW: Welcome back. Throughout the day we've been reporting on the Dallas shooter Micah Johnson's path. And in doing so, earlier today, CNN aired a report about internet sites which Johnson the man who killed five Dallas police officers is believed to have visited. In that report we showed sites that are devoted to the experiences of blacks in America.

We also reference sites that espouse hate and violence. In doing so, we inadvertently showed the names of some groups such as shifting your paradigm for optimal health and longevity which do not call for hate or violence and are not affiliated with any such groups and we apologize for that error. Let's talk more about this and make this reporting absolutely clear.

I want to bring in CNN's Drew Griffin and Ed Lavandera. They're both outside of police headquarters. Also with us, CNN law enforcement analyst Art Roderick. And Drew, what can you tell us about these hate groups that Johnson was following. Now that we've made that correction. You've been doing a lot of reporting on this. What can you tell us about the groups that you discover that he was following online?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, he was following many, many different groups online, many of them innocuous, many of them acrocentric news sites, sites that dealt with black views on what it's like to be black in America. But there are a few sites that are considered hate groups by some which have even pronounced as the African-American defense league calling for attacks on police. This happened on Thursday after the killing in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. It even prompted the FBI to issue a nationwide alert to law enforcement. We know he visited and liked those Facebook sites. What we don't know, Poppy, is if he had any interactions with those groups or the frequency of which he was on those websites.

HARLOW: And I know, Drew, that you've learned that he had been practicing at some gun ranges. Is that right?

GRIFFIN: No. We only have assumed that from the law enforcement experts that we talk to about his marksman skills. Obviously had very basic, basic training in the army, nothing like the type of shooting that would have been required for what happened here tragically in Dallas. So the investigation is focusing on, where did he train? Where did he get the bullets? Where did he practice the maneuvers quite frankly that he used in this fatal attack on this fatal attack on the Dallas Police Department.

HARLOW: And Ed, to you, you're learning more details about the demands that he made during those negotiations which we certainly learned a lot more about this morning from Jake Tapper's interview with the Dallas police chief. But what else have you learned about those hours and those really desperate negotiations?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the interview with CNN that the police chief of Dallas had was wide ranging, covered a lot of different ground. Really shed a lot of new light on the standoff moments leading up to the moment where Micah Johnson was shot and killed. A couple of things that stood out from that interview with the police chief. One of the things he had talked about was that Johnson had written in his own blood, the initials "RB" and perhaps some other wording there on the ground.

Investigators are still trying to figure out what those initials might stand for, what the message might have been in all of that. But in those moments, in those moments before Micah Johnson was killed by that robot carrying a bomb, Micah Johnson and apparently as he was firing at officers, was acting very calm, according to the police chief, yet delusional. And the police chief talked about that with us this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: For a long time during the negotiation, because of the negotiator's expertise, the suspect wouldn't believe he was black until they talked some more and -- but during that talk, it didn't matter whether he was black because he was shooting at us. So asking for a black negotiator didn't make sense to us. It didn't matter to us. And it shouldn't make sense to anyone because that didn't lead to any type of peaceful resolution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: And that's what the Chief is referring to there is that in the midst of all of that negotiation that lasted several hours, Micah Johnson was telling police that he would only speak with a black negotiator. All of this while the police chief says he was continuing to fire at the officers.

HARLOW: And Art Roderick, let me bring you in here because one of the things that we heard in this interview was a vehement defense by the police chief of using this robot bomb, if you will, to ultimately kill the gunman. And he said, I stand behind it. I did it. And I would do it again. From your law enforcement experience, what do you make of that decision?

[19:19:13] ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I think you've got an extraordinary incident here.

HARLOW: Right.

RODERICK: And a lot of times it takes extraordinary means to end this type of incident. The chief came out right away because I think he knew he was going to come under some criticism, the Chief Brown came out right away, right after the incident ended and basically described exactly how they ended the incident knowing that it would probably be some criticism. And I think the chief has handled it as the great leader that he is of a very professional and profound way.

And I've got to tell you that these two interviews, both from Chief Brown and Deputy Chief Aziz are -- show that the extraordinary leadership and the heroism of this Police Department during this incident. But, you know, you can criticize the Chief, but I think he nailed it right there. That the arm chair quarterbacking is not what we need at this particular point in time.

HARLOW: And Art, just your reaction to the fact that we learned from the Police Chief this morning that every single officer reported for duty, reported to work on Friday morning, the day after this heinous attack. Not one person said, I'm going to sit this one out?

RODERICK: Well, that's what law enforcement looks like. I think the Chief reiterated several times that 98, 99 percent of what happens, that law enforcement does around the country is good. So, you're talking about a very small minority of individuals. And I'll tell you, you know, this cut me to my core when I saw this happen to these heroic men and women here at Dallas PD. But I also had to tell you that when I saw the video from Minneapolis and the video from Baton Rouge, that also cut me to my core.

And I can tell you to a person that law enforcement around the country watching those videos that occurred in Baton Rouge and St. Paul asked the question of themselves, what would I do in that situation? Would I have reacted like that? And that's what law enforcement does on a daily basis.

HARLOW: Thank you so much, Art Roderick, appreciate it, Ed and Drew, thank you as well.

Coming up next. Dallas takes the first small step for its healing after an unspeakable tragedy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I look in your eyes and I see suffering, it's not black suffering and white suffering. It's just suffering.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:24:49] HARLOW: You're looking at live pictures now from two cities, Boston and our nation's capital, Washington, D.C. Protesters marching after the police shootings of two African-American men. The latest demonstrations in what has been a very tense week across this country. We'll monitor those for you. Again, Washington, D.C. and Boston.

Last night in Minnesota, police officers say that 21 of their fellow officers were injured and about 100 people arrested during protests in St. Paul.

(PROTESTERS CHANTING BLACK LIVES MATTER!)

This took place not far from where Philando Castile was killed by a police officer there last week. Some of the protesters threw bricks, fireworks and bottles at police officers. They also shut down Interstate 94 for a few hours. On Saturday protesters went face-to- face with police in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. That's where another black man, Alton Sterling, was killed by last week. More than 100 protesters were arrested there.

And in San Antonio, Texas, someone took shots at the city's police headquarters leaving bullet holes on the building and shell casings on the ground. Police are still investigating that incident.

It was a very different kind of Sunday morning worship at the service at a prominent mega church in Dallas today. Bishop T.D. Jakes changed both the format and the message of his sermon at the Potter's House to show comfort and support to the Dallas law enforcement community after five officers were ambushed and killed by a lone gunman. But he also found a way to comfort the families of the two black men who died at the hands of law enforcement last week.

Our Kyung Lah attended the service. Here's Kyung.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Church opened, asking for sanctuary from the city's pain.

T.D. JAKES, PASTOR: We have been wounded as a city. We have been shocked as a city.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

LAH: The Potter's House, a predominantly African-American church honoring the five fallen Dallas police officers.

JAKES: We appreciate the sacrifice of the Dallas Police Department. We want the world to know.

LAH: Foregoing sermon for stories, first from the police, Officer Steve Gentry knew Dallas Area Rapid Transit Officer Brent Thompson.

STEVE GENTRY, DART POLICE OFFICER: In the last two years there's been a lot of blame on both sides, and I hate it. It disturbs me. It keeps me awake at night. I woke up this morning, and I felt lost.

Every one of those men and women that loses their lives in the line of duty, they're fathers, they're mothers, they're husbands, they're grandpas. You know, we're the same. We're not different. Everybody's the same. We have the same feelings as anybody else. Now, I have to come to a funeral and see five of my brothers get buried at one time. LAH: But this is also a community reeling after two African-American

men were gunned down by law enforcement last week. Sandra Sterling raised Alton Sterling, he was shot in front of a Baton Rouge store.

SANDRA STERLING, ALTON STERLING'S AUNT: When I saw the second tape. He suffered.

LAH: Diamond Reynolds recorded this video after an officer shot and killed her fiance Philando Castile. Reynolds addressed the congregation by phone.

DIAMOND REYNOLDS, GIRLFRIEND OF PHILANDO CASTILE: But when the officers are the ones that are hurting us, who do we call? So I posted that video so everyone across the world can know that we don't do these things to ourselves. These things are done to us.

L. CHRIS STEWART, ATTORNEY: Who do you call in the middle of the night if you need help? So we can't get rid of cops. And cops can't get rid of the community.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

LAH: Church is meant to heal and comfort, but in this community it's also to call for change. Dallas' Mayor underscored how much needs to be done.

MIKE RAWLINGS, DALLAS MAYOR: Do we want to change? Do we really want to change? Okay? That's a personal question. We can't take a vote on that and we all change. Every person has got to decide that. Most people want the other guy to change.

JAKES: Mm-hmm. Right, right, right.

RAWLINGS: I want you to change but not me. The question is, do we want to change? And if so, we've got to get the right medicine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAH: Now, a number of other churches across this city did address the deaths of those officers including some of the churches that these officers did attend. But many of those services, Poppy, were private -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Kyung Lah. Thank you so much. It's important to see something like that specially after week like it has been. Kyung live for us in Dallas. Thank you.

Coming up next, she's being called the brave little girl in the backseat. Her image known across this country coming up. The heartbreaking words of a four-year-old for her mother after that tragic traffic stop that turned deadly in Minnesota. We'll discuss with Michael Daley ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. In Baton Rouge, some of those arrested last night are being released from jail right now after the protests in that city. Prominent Black Lives Matter activist DeRay Mckesson was among those arrested. He and others were protesting after the police shootings of two African-American men, one there in Louisiana named Alton Sterling. Those two shootings just in the past week.

DeRay Mckesson spent 16 hours in jail. He was charged with misdemeanor offense of obstruction of justice and he joins me on the phone.

Tell me about the circumstances of your arrest. I understand that you were filming some of the protesters when you were arrested. What happened?

DERAY MCKESSON, BLACK LIVES MATTER ACTIVIST: Yes. It's clear that the officers gave an instruction, I followed that instruction, and they still decided to arrest me. I maintain that it was an unlawful arrest. And what we saw last night in Baton Rouge and what we've seen all across the country is police officers abusing their power and using that power to force people to do whatever they want them to do with reckless disregard for public safety.

HARLOW: You tweeted that at times 50 of you were in one cell and you tweeted that you were unable to sit, sleeping on the floor or under the benches, but our spirits remain strong. That's what you tweeted. Tell me about the conversations you had during those 16 hours in custody.

MCKESSON: Yes, so the part of the community remains strong. We know that the police want us to be afraid to protest and I think that our protesters is telling the truth in public and we'll never be afraid to tell the truth. So in those cells, there were -- at times we were 50 in one cell, at times we were 25 in one cell. We talked about everything from better ways to organize in the street to what we can do in community, to the powerful of the black women continue to play in liberation march, and how in the movement today black women are being visible in ways that they were not during the civil rights movement.

So a really powerful conversation. But the common thread was that people will go out again to fight a new day. That we will not let the police kill our spirits and we know that we can have a conception of safety that is broader than policing.

[19:35:04] And what we see happening right now in Baton Rouge is the police tear gassing and threatening protesters with assault rifles. And last night again the protesters had not done anything, had not stopped traffic, had not thrown anything when the police came out and just decided to snatch and grab. They were the provocateurs.

HARLOW: So the Baton Rouge Police Department who, by the way, we asked to come on to speak as we're having you on right now, and we haven't heard back yet from them on that, but they said that the protests -- there were two protests basically. They said that one was organized by local community leaders and was very peaceful and they extend their gratitude to them. And then they said that there was another protest at Baton Rouge police headquarters organized by individuals from outside of Baton Rouge that resulted in 102 arrests. They're saying basically that that second protest was not as peaceful. Your response.

MCKESSON: Yes. They are correct that it was not as peaceful and that was because the police decided to provoke people. So the protest was incredibly peaceful last night. The police weren't. And this idea of outside agitators is as old as the idea of protest. It is what they used against King and so many other people during the civil rights movement. And what we know to be true that that is a way that the police deflect from their own responsibility and accountability for their actions.

So they are in a sense saying because they question who organized it, that they can do whatever they want. And we know that that is not OK. And the reality is last night was planned by local people here in Baton Rouge who know that the police department can be a department that doesn't kill people. I am one of many people who was not born and raised in Baton Rouge, who doesn't live here, but who is here to stand alongside the people of this city who know the city can be better.

HARLOW: DeRay, you say that police provoked the protesters in that second protest. Can you give me some specifics?

MCKESSON: Yes. So one specific is there's a barricade around the Baton Rouge Police Department which used to be a hospital, and there's a very wide barricade. Protesters were just at the barricade, not pushing it, not stopping traffic, not throwing anything. And then the police officers were about 100 and we tweeted this and Vined it and Periscoped it last night. They suddenly come over for us. Everybody went from the barricade and just started snatching and grabbing people for no reason.

And that actually was the beginning of the conflict last night. When I think about my arrest, again they gave instructions. I followed the instructions and they arrested me from behind anyway. And those things happen over and over. There was people I was in a cell with, who they were told to get out of the street. They were on the grass and got arrested for being on the streets. You can't be in the street and on the grass at the same time.

The police are just showing people that they have more power than them and wanted people to be afraid. And if what we see happening again right now in Baton Rouge and what we've seen happened for the past 20 months all across the country.

HARLOW: DeRay Mckesson, thank you for joining us.

And again I just want to make it clear we did reach out to the Baton Rouge Police Department for comment to have them come on as well as DeRay there. We have not heard back yet.

Coming after the shooting in Baton Rouge, there was a video. A video that you probably saw. A video that stunned the nation. It was an appalling sequel to a national crisis. We must warn you, it is graphic.

The live stream video showed the aftermath of the shooting death of Philando Castile in Minnesota. His fiance sitting helplessly in the car next to him. Heartbreakingly, her 4-year-old daughter, Diana, known to many as Dae-Dae was in the backseat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIAMOND REYNOLDS, GIRLFRIEND OF PHILANDO CASTILE: I can't believe they just did this. (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

DIANA, DIAMOND REYNOLDS' DAUGHTER: It's OK. I'm right here with you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: "It's OK. I'm right here with you." Words from a 4-year-old girl to her mother.

Michael Daly, special correspondent for the "Daily Beast," wrote about that extensively. And he joins me now.

Reading your piece this morning is heartbreaking. And you call it -- you titled it "The Bravest Little Girl in the World." What drew you to tell her story as we look at her face?

MICHAEL DALY, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, DAILY BEAST: Well, if you think of what -- you know, she's sitting in the back seat of the car with her mother and her mother's boyfriend. They're driving along. The car gets pulled over, right. The police officer comes up, asked for license and registration. Next thing this little girl knows there's these gunshots. And you can imagine how loud those were in a car and these gunshots, and all of a sudden her mother's boyfriend has bright red blood going across his chest. He's moaning as he's dying. Her mother goes on Facebook live and starts narrating it.

And if you look in the background, that police officer is still pointing the gun. And the mother can't do anything. She can't touch her boyfriend. She can't reach to her daughter because the police officer says keep your hands where they are. Keep your hands where they are. So she does. And the little girl gets a sense that the officer's telling the mother, basically, if you don't do what I'm telling you, that could happen to you. So she's sitting there.

[19:40:08] And the other police arrived and they ordered the mother out, and they ordered her to kneel, and first walk back towards me and then kneel and all this. The little girl is sitting in the back. And then one of the cops, you know, helps her out. And then they get the mother and they handcuff the mother. And you know the little girl, the rest of her life, she's going to remember the sound of those handcuffs. And then the -- while they're searching the mother, the cop says search the mother, and then the little girl must have taken that moment. She started walking towards the car.

And she wants to help her mother someway any way. So what she says, I just want to get my mommy's purse. She wants to help her mother. And they said, we'll take care of that. And they get the two of them in the car, in the back of the radio car. And the mother is back -- the little girl actually -- you don't -- the cops must have taken the cell phone away or the mother dropped it. You don't see the video. And then all of a sudden you see this little girl's face. That's her getting her mother's phone for her.

She gives the phone back to her mother in the backseat. The mother is narrating again. The mother says that's the cop that did it. And you can see this little girl just looking out this window. With her little hand on the edge of the door and those emergency lights are flashing on her face. And then her mother's handcuffed and says, I can't do anything. And then her mother has been unbelievably calm through this whole thing. I mean -- and all of a sudden the mother loses it and you hear these words.

HARLOW: "I'm right here with you."

DALY: I'm -- I can't even say it. Just imagine. And that kid, for that kid to go through all that and all she's thinking about is her mother, and she wants to comfort her mother. I mean --

HARLOW: Do you think, Michael, in those -- in those words, I'm right here with you, there's a lesson for America as we go to bed tonight and wake up Monday morning to a new week ahead, new possibilities ahead, I'm right here with you? Is there a lesson we can all take from Dae-Dae?

DALY: I mean, yes. Dae-Dae is the one to follow. And the other thing is we are all obligated to that young lady to make this a better world. I mean, we owe it to her. And we owe it to her. We owe it to that 2-year-old daughter of the cop that was at the ball game with her mother not knowing at the very moment her father was being murdered, we owe it to all the kids that Mr. Castile used to joke with in the cafeteria, they're going to come in now and they're going to -- where is he? What happened to him?

We owe it to Sergeant Smith, to all the kids at the church where he used to watch the playground every day, on every Sunday. And you know, what happened to Sergeant Smith?

HARLOW: Yes.

DALY: We owe it to them to settle some of this. You know, and -- you know, this back and forth and -- I mean, we really got to -- as a dear friend of mine who today had a mass at his house, he's celebrating, his name is Detective Stephen McDonald. He's celebrating the 30th anniversary of when he was shot and paralyzed below the neck. And he's still alive. His wife was pregnant with his first and only child when he was shot. At the christening Stephen marked that event by forgiving the kid who shot him.

And now his son's a police officer. And every morning when Conner is going out to work, Stephen is sitting there in his wheelchair paralyzed from the neck down and says, think safe, think tactics, and his kid goes out there. And you know, we can't forget him. We can't forget Dae-Dae. And you know, it's -- horrible things happen. We have these unbelievably good people in this country. And -- HARLOW: I think you said it.

DALY: That's it.

HARLOW: We owe it to our children. Michael Daly, thank you so much.

President Obama says America is not as divided as some feel right now.

Coming up, eight years after his historic election, the president reflects on race relations in the United States and what he wants his own legacy to be.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:47:03] HARLOW: On Tuesday, President Obama heads to Dallas. His visit will come as deep divides in race relations in this country are exposed. The inauguration theme eight years ago was "A New Birth of Freedom." And a record number of people packed the Capitol lawn to watch as the first African-American was sworn in as the president of the United States. You'll remember enormous crowds of people chanting these words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Yes, we can. Yes, we can. Yes, we can.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Now let's fast forward to the chants echoing in Washington this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: No justice, no peace. No justice, no peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: The contrast is stark. This weekend as tensions rose across America, President Obama was asked what he wants his legacy to be when it comes to race relations. Here's what he said he wanted some people to understand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To recognize that the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow and discrimination didn't suddenly vanish with the passage of the Civil Rights Act or the Voting Rights Act, or the election of Barack Obama.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Let's talk more about the legacy of this president when it comes to race relations in this country. Julian Zelizer is with me. He's a historian and a professor at Princeton University. He is the author of "The Fierce Urgency of Now: Lyndon Johnson, Congress and the Battle for the Great Society." Thank you for being here. Nice to be back with you. What did you

make of his answer? That was just a short clip of a long answer. But he basically said, I will leave it to the historians to decide my legacy, but I want to do everything I can to make it a little bit better for -- as Michael Daly was just saying for me, for our children. What did you make of his answer? Some say he didn't directly address it.

JULIAN ZELIZER, HISTORIAN, PROFESSOR AT PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: Well, one message he has given is that there has been progress since the 1960s. And I think he wants to suggest he himself is a sign of the progress and there's been good accomplishments in his administration, but I think it's hard for him to totally ignore the very bitter conflicts that are taking place and the images that people have seen involving policing.

HARLOW: I mean, look what we just saw comparing those chants from the inauguration eight years ago to what they're chanting right now on the streets of Washington, D.C. Do you think that the comparison to the mid-1960s is a fair one right now or is it overhyping what's going on in this country?

ZELIZER: No, I think it's fair. I mean, one of the things people who look back remember is that in 1968 after the riots, the government puts out a report on race relations.

HARLOW: Yes. The Kerner report.

ZELIZER: The Kerner report. And if you read the report, it's quite stunning. A lot of it deals --

HARLOW: Let me first read the key quote.

ZELIZER: Sure.

HARLOW: From the Kerner report.

ZELIZER: Right.

HARLOW: "Our nation is moving towards two societies, one black, one white, separate but unequal." That was 1967.

[19:50:04] ZELIZER: And the issues they're talking about include policing and race relations.

HARLOW: Right.

ZELIZER: Underemployment and unemployment and the condition of cities. So when you read it, it's clear that there were many problems on the table that we learned about after the riots that were not addressed and that continue to be big problems today.

HARLOW: So what are the lessons learned? I mean, I remember reading about it when it was printed in paperback, it was some 700 pages long.

ZELIZER: Yes. HARLOW: And sold out across the board. I mean, so many Americans

grabbed it, devoured it. Their consciousness certainly changed. But what action changed in your opinion?

ZELIZER: Well, not much. I mean, it was a huge hit Marlon Brando went on TV and read parts of it out loud.

HARLOW: Right.

ZELIZER: But politics turned to the right. Nixon ran a campaign in '68 about law and order.

HARLOW: Yes.

ZELIZER: And the response, instead of dealing with reform, was to expand the existing criminal justice system and to make it more muscular. So the argument is that since the '60s we didn't really address it and instead we went in the opposite direction.

HARLOW: But let me show you this finally. Let me show you some of the front pages from newspapers across the country the morning after President Obama was first elected eight years ago. "Change has come to America. A new dawn. A new era."

Do those headlines still hold weight today? Haven't some things changed?

ZELIZER: Absolutely. They hold weight. There's been positive changes. But you have to couple those with the videos that people have watched from phones, recordings of people dying at the hands of police often unarmed. And so both can co-exist. We can have improvement in race relations but we can also have pretty severe structural problems which have been front and center in the Black Lives Matter movement. And that's the argument. We need to address this and we need to do it through policy reform.

HARLOW: Yes. Thank you so much.

ZELIZER: Thank you.

HARLOW: Julian Zelizer, nice to have you on as we consider those words from 1967 today in 2016.

We do have one programming note for you. Vice President Joe Biden will speak about the tragedies of the past week as well as race relations in America. He joins our Jake Tapper tomorrow on "THE LEAD" at 4:00 p.m. Eastern.

When we come back, a Dallas reporter shares her moving message to the city that she so loves. Don't let terrorism win. That's next.

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HARLOW: Take a look at this. This is the front page of tomorrow morning's "Dallas Morning News." A powerful image following the rampage that killed five police officers, wounded seven more on Thursday night. It is the first time that the paper has run a front page editorial since the 9/11 attacks.

One of the paper's columnists wrote a very moving op-ed this week and in it she said, "This is one of those moments that is going to test all of us. Dallas, our home, is about to become famous again for all the wrong reasons.

[19:55:02] "It's going to be a shorthand for chaos. We've been there before. Today we have a choice. We can let somebody else write the script to tell us that some of us are victims and some of us are perpetrators, tell us which camps we're in and whose side we're supposed be on, or we can unite in our shared shock and sorrow, we can all choose the side of decency and humanity."

Joining me now is the woman, the columnist who wrote that, Jacquielynn Floyd.

Jacquielynn, thank you so much for being here tonight. I'm glad we could convince you to come on the program. I know you were a little hesitant. And I was so touched by what you wrote because I wanted to hear from you in your own words what the Dallas is that you know.

JACQUIELYNN FLOYD, COLUMNIST, "DALLAS MORNING NEWS": Thank you so much, Poppy. Thank you for having me. Dallas is a city that's been tested before. This is, by no means, our first rodeo. We've been through some tough times before. The sorrow here is palpable. It's so sad. It's such a sad time for this city. Particularly because it's actually been not perfect, no city's perfect. But Dallas has done a pretty good job in its efforts to reach out to pull the whole city together in the last few years.

HARLOW: You wrote -- in this piece, you wrote, "It isn't a war. Not black against blue or us against them."

Do you think that the divide between some communities and police has been sensationalized in the midst of these tragedies? Is that what you're saying?

FLOYD: You know, we have disagreements. And I don't want to minimize the legitimate grievances that some people have, but I want to make it very clear that there is never an excuse for slaughter. There is never a motivating factor that justifies what happened here on Thursday night. I don't think anyone would claim that kind of derangement and that kind of violence and mayhem.

HARLOW: You know, it was interesting. One of my colleagues, Rafael Romo, when he spoke to the family of one of those slain police officers, they said to him that they feel pain in their hearts for the family of the shooter. And that speaks to exactly what you're saying. The incredible ability to rise above and to think like that when you've lost someone that you love so much, I think speaks to the character of your city and of so many people going through this right now.

FLOYD: Hatred made this happen. Hatred doesn't fix anything. It only makes things worse. I think that this is a moment for this city to stop and take a deep breath and say, how can we help each other. How can we do better?

HARLOW: You ended the op-ed by writing, "Terrorism can hurt us. On Thursday night it did, but it doesn't win. This is our city and we won't let it."

How do you see your city moving forward and healing? How does this not just become another conversation?

FLOYD: I think that there are going to be a lot of people trying to work on that. And we've already had some discussion of that as fresh and painful as this incident still is. I think that we're reaching a point where we recognize thoughts and prayers may not be enough. I mean, they're important, but what comes after that? This is not a time for us to go back to business as usual.

HARLOW: Right. Action. Action is critical.

Jacquelynn Floyd, thank you for what you wrote. Thank you for being with me tonight.

FLOYD: Thank you very much, Poppy.

HARLOW: Of course.

After what has been by all accounts an incredibly difficult week in America, one where the country wrestled with issues of race and policing, many of us are asking where do we go from here? So that brings us to tonight's "Number." And the number 67. That is how many times President Obama has ordered flags to be flown at half-staff. An order he has given more than any other U.S. president.

The president has addressed the nation after previous tragedies, the shootings in Chattanooga, Tennessee, Roseburg, Oregon, San Bernardino, California, Orlando, Dallas, Minnesota, Louisiana, the list goes on. A grim list and one he may talk about when he addresses the nation on Tuesday from the memorial service for those five slain officers in Dallas.

The number 67 tonight, the number of times the president has ordered the flag lowered.

I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. Thank you so much for being with us this Sunday evening. I'll see you tomorrow morning on "NEW DAY."