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New Details on Dallas Police Killer; Aired Castile's Mom Calls For Peace Amid Unrest; Hundreds Arrested In Protests Across The U.S. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired July 11, 2016 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[09:00:11] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No justice.

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: No peace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No justice.

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: No peace.

TODD AXTELL, ST. PAUL POLICE CHIEF: It's really a disgrace, and I'm absolutely disgusted by the acts of some. Not all, but some.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You are doing a disservice to the cause.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Disappointed in the Baton Rouge police who continue to provoke protesters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, and thank you for being here on this Monday. I'm Ana Cabrera, in for Carol this morning.

As Dallas and the nation prepare to say good-bye at tomorrow's public memorial for five slain police officers. We have new information this morning about the killer. Investigators say the death toll could have been much higher. Police say the killer, Army veteran Micah Johnson, had amassed enough bomb-making materials for a much larger attack. The Dallas police chief describing some bizarre exchanges with Johnson as he gloated over his killing spree.

Meanwhile, the crowds are growing, the tensions still building. More than 300 people were arrested in weekend protests all across the country. And in some cities, protesters flooded the freeways, blocking the traffic.

Our correspondents and experts are covering all these angles. Let's begin in Baton Rouge with CNN"s Nick Valencia -- Nick.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ana, it has been an emotionally exhausting week, underscored here in Baton Rouge. The last three days, there has been a series of demonstrations, nearly 200 people have been arrested. Police here attribute that in part to demonstrators coming from out of state to protest against police.

One of those demonstrators is lead Black Lives Matter activist, DeRay Mckesson. I spoke to him earlier but before I spoke to him I did have a conversation with -- Louisiana State Police Colonel Mike Edmonson who told that during the protests over the weekend, adult demonstrators were using children to put in front and in between them and the riot police. I asked DeRay about that criticism and to respond to police.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DERAY MCKESSON, BLACK LIVES MATTER ACTIVIST: The Baton Rouge Police continue to release statements to do everything that will reflect in their own accountability for any of the conflict that has been created here in Baton Rouge. They have not explained why Alton is dead. And what I saw with my own eyes the other night here in Baton Rouge is the police provoked protesters just because they have the power to do so. I'm looking forward to statements about that and not these statements deflecting from their accountability.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: Mckesson went on to criticize the tactics of police saying that they were inadvertently and really had to reason to arrest many of those demonstrators that they did. We're seeing some rather dramatic images emerge from those demonstrations including an image of a woman in a dress as she is about to be arrested.

Here more demonstrations are planned for later today. There is a rumor here in the community just confirmed a little while ago by DeRay that they're planning on trying to shut down the Mississippi River Bridge. Many protesters have come from out of state, including McKesson -- Ana.

CABRERA: And even after what happened in Dallas, it does seem that the rhetoric and the heated exchanges have not dispersed and we'll continue to watch this. We'll be speaking with the Black Lives Matter member as well, coming up later this hour.

Nick Valencia, thank you.

Let's get to Dallas now, a city reeling from unspeakable grief as investigators unravel the madness that fueled Friday's attacks on police. CNN's Victor Blackwell is joining us live there -- Victor.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And we're learning, Ana, that this killer planned to potentially employ military tactics as part of a much larger attack, hoping to kill more people. We're learning from investigators who pulled evidence from that home, suggestions that he had even practiced detonations.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHIEF DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: We're convinced that this suspect had other plans and thought that what he was doing was righteous.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): Dallas Police Chief David Brown telling CNN the killer was plotting larger scale attacks.

BROWN: He was going to make us pay for what he sees as law enforcement's efforts to punish people of color.

BLACKWELL: Bomb-making materials and a journal found inside the home of the deranged gunman suggest he was practicing detonations and aiming for larger targets.

BROWN: The materials was such that it was large enough to have devastating effects throughout our city and our north Texas area.

BLACKWELL: Police say the killer told them why he did it during a standoff, saying he was seeking revenge for the shooting deaths of two African-American men last week. Cornered in a parking garage, negotiations with the killer lasted about two hours.

BROWN: He just basically lied to us, playing games, laughing at us, singing, asking how many did he get and that he wanted to kill some more and that there were bombs there.

[09:05:02] BLACKWELL: Officers ultimately using a robot armed with a bomb to end the gunman's life, a first for law enforcement in the U.S.

At the scene, an ominous message written in the shooter's own blood on the walls near his body. The initials "R.B.," a message police are still trying to decipher. This as we're learning more about the five officers whose lives were cut short protecting a peaceful protest.

VALERIE ZAMARRIPA, SLAIN OFFICER'S MOTHER: No, not my baby. Not my Patrick.

BLACKWELL: Thirty-two-year-old Patrick Zamarripa, the engaged father of two, was a Navy veteran and just weeks away from his 33rd birthday. His family says his dream was to become a police officer.

LAURA ZAMARRIPA, SLAIN OFFICER'S SISTER: My brother loved his country and his community. I just can't wrap my mind around it. It's just so unreal.

RICK ZAMARRIPA, SLAIN OFFICER'S FATHER: Since day one, since he was born, he was a hero. He was my little hero. And he's a big hero -- he's a big hero now.

BLACKWELL: Those who did survive the ambush, like Shetamia Taylor, are grateful to be alive. The Dallas mother protected her four sons when shots rang out. She was hit in the leg as officers were shot in front of her. Taylor thanking police for their heroism in the hail of bullets.

SHETAMIA TAYLOR, DALLAS SHOOTING VICTIM: It hurt. Of course I'm thankful that my babies are OK, but somebody's dad, somebody's husband isn't.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: And the city is working now towards healing, of course. There is a vigil planned for later today in front of city hall and tomorrow is the big city wide memorial event. President Obama, Vice President Joe Biden will be here. We also know that Dallas residents, former President George W. Bush, former First Lady Laura Bush will be here as well and the president and former president will both speak at that event tomorrow -- Ana.

CABRERA: And that growing memorial behind you is pretty moving, Victor. Thank you so much for your report.

Let's discuss now. With me is Cedric Alexander, CNN law enforcement analyst, and Casey Jordan, criminologist and behavioral analyst.

Casey, I want to start with you. We heard from the chief in Victor's piece there saying this killer was laughing. He was singing, all while he was on the phone with negotiators, and yet he seemed very much in control. He continued to fire. He was asking questions about how many officers he got. What is all of this tell you about his psyche?

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Well, as Chief Brown says, he was clearly in that moment deranged, but also victorious. He had been planning this for a very long time. We know from his reference to explosives in the bomb-making materials that were found on -- at his residence, he had been planning much greater mayhem. So at the moment, when he finally engages in this fantasy combat that he has been planning, you know, and again I'm not blaming video games, but he loved to watch video games. He went to the gym and he practiced these combat moves, and learned martial arts, kept a journal, talking about how to shoot, and how to move and how to avoid being killed.

He is in his fantastical video game moment, where he's actually acted out on his fantasies. Even prematurely because I do agree with Chief Brown it was going to be much worse, and at that moment, he is feeling totally glorious and victorious even though he knows the jig is up. He's not going to live through it. That doesn't even worry him.

CABRERA: Cedric, we also heard Johnson say that -- rather, the chief say that Johnson would only talk to a black negotiator, but it didn't seem like doing that actually changed any of his actions. What do you make of that request?

CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Absolutely nothing. It really didn't make any difference whatsoever. At that point he was all really thoroughly engaged. He had already killed and injured police officers. He had already traumatized that community. So at the point that they had him barricaded, his request of a black negotiator really did not make any difference.

And I think from what we heard from Chief Brown at that point it didn't make any difference. It just had an appearance that he was playing games, buying some time, which ultimately ended in his own demise.

CABRERA: Cedric, do you agree with Casey that this killer was in a fantastical delusion at the time of this crime?

ALEXANDER: Well, you know, I never heard it described that way, but I like the description of it. But it certainly was not fantasy. I think that he had some real psychological issues that were going on. It would be interesting to find out what was his mental health going into the military during his tour of duty and once he came out of the military as well because clearly anyone that is sane in their right mind are mentally and emotionally healthy would not carry out that type of act.

He had some other things that were going on. He was acting out on some fantasy, and he took it all the way to the nth degree. And unfortunately, it cost the lives of police officers in that community and it traumatized that whole community and this entire nation.

CABRERA: There is no evidence of a mental illness history. There is no criminal background with this individual.

Casey, the Dallas police chief as you mentioned said that this could have been much worse. Clearly there was a bigger plot that he was planning.

[09:10:01] Why do you think he chose to attack at the time he did? Obviously his plans were in effect before the killings and the week prior in Baton Rouge and Minnesota.

JORDAN: Well, he was what we would very often refer to as a grudge collector. We know that he had some allegations against him in the military for sexual harassment and even though he had an honorable discharge, his work history has been spotty ever since then. So what you end up with is a person, like almost every other mass shooter we've seen in recent history who collects a grudge and then it just grows and it festers, and then he picks a scapegoat, and then he acts on it.

The events in recent months, in the past years, in fact, with all of these questionable shootings of black people by police officers grew huge in his mind and that became the scapegoat. Dallas PD never did him wrong, but he needed to make his statements as his grudges finally -- you know, we had a straw that broke the camel's back, perhaps with Louisiana, perhaps with Minnesota. And he decided to act sooner rather later to let everybody know that he was not going -- he was going to stand for black people and not going to take it anymore. I think that was his mission.

CABRERA: As this investigation pushing forward, Cedric, I want to ask you about this mysterious writing on the wall apparently near the scene of where this killer died. He wrote in blood we're learning the letters R.B.

Cedric, how important is that to figure out what those letters stand for?

ALEXANDER: Let me put my psychologist hat on here for a second. The word R.B., I think over the course of the investigation we might have some sense of what that means. But let's go back and let's look at the fact he was reportedly -- early on being reported as being recluse, being aloof, pretty much to himself, which may be suggestive of some depression. The fact that he took blood and put on the wall, that to me in my training suggests that there may be some psychosis or delusion going on with him.

And this is here again why I allude to the fact that he may have had some mental health issues going on. That may not yet even to be reported. So we don't know. But clearly something else was going on with him mentally other than just acting out.

CABRERA: This investigation continues. There are still a lot of questions that we hope to find answers for.

ALEXANDER: Right.

CABRERA: Cedric Alexander and Casey Jordan, our thanks to both of you for joining us.

ALEXANDER: Thank you.

JORDAN: Pleasure to be here.

ALEXANDER: Thank you.

CABRERA: Still to come, as tensions build across the U.S., America's mayor lashes out at Black Lives Matter. This group of protesters. That group will respond next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:16:03] CABRERA: Philando Castile's mom is calling for peace in Minneapolis and St. Paul after the protests there turned violent over the weekend. Activists clashing with police, hurling rocks even Molotov cocktails according to officers there.

Now Castile's mom issued a new statement. She says this. That violence, quote, "Disrespects my son and his memory. He was a man of peace and dignity. I ask you to all remain peaceful."

CNN's Brynn Gingras is live now in Minneapolis with much more -- Brynn.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ana, it's worth noting that last night, about 200 people took to the streets and they were peaceful protests, but it was on Saturday night that they turned violent. About 50 people were arrested in protests that started here at the governor's mansion and ended up on Interstate 94, which is the major highway between the twin cities.

And that's where the police department says their officers were assaulted with what you said, Molotov cocktails, fireworks, rebar, one officer was hit with a 25-pound brick, which broke his vertebrae and is in the hospital.

And the mayor of St. Paul said, you know what, this isn't protesting. This is rioting. Here is more of what officials had to say. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF TODD AXTELL, ST. PAUL POLICE: The first time in my 28 years as a police officer that I have observed the level of violence that was directed towards our public servants. The public servants that are there to protect all of us in this room and our community. I'm absolutely disgusted by the acts of some, not all, but some.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRAS: Those protests are expected to continue throughout the day. Of course, you can still see people behind me at the governor's mansion. As far as this investigation goes, we do know that it is ongoing.

The BCA, the state agency overseeing the investigation said they're going to be prompt, but they want to be thorough. This weekend, we had a chance to talk to the lawyer of the officer involved in this case.

He says that there was more to this story, that the pull over that started all of this, had nothing do with race and he said he hopes that story comes when that investigation is complete -- Ana.

CABRERA: Brynn Gingras, all right, thanks to you.

Now police all across the country are on edge because of the Dallas ambush. They'll be dealing with large demonstrations by Black Lives Matter and other groups for the foreseeable future. Former New York mayor, Rudy Giuliani had some harsh words about this movement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: I believe I saved a lot more black lives than Black Lives Matter. I don't see what Black Lives Matter is doing for blacks other than isolating them. All it cares about is the police shootings of blacks. It doesn't care about the 90 percent of blacks that are killed by other blacks. That's just a simple fact.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know --

GIULIANI: It is inherently racist because number one it divides us. All lives matter. When the presidential candidate, the governor of Maryland made a statement, all lives matter, they intimidated him to change it to Black Lives Matter. All lives matter. White lives, black lives, all lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: I want to bring in Autumn Marie, she is with the Black Lives Matter Movement in New York City. Let's begin with what we just heard from the former mayor, Rudy Giuliani. You were actually chuckling as you were listening to him. What was that all about?

AUTUMN MARIE, BLACK LIVES MATTER, NEW YORK CHAPTER: Just the audacity to be able to say that he saved more black lives.

[09:20:03]When we look at the fact that the broken windows policy that we see in New York, which have led just like Eric Garner are largely the results of the policing that Giuliani put into place.

And the breaking down of low level crimes that Giuliani started during his term and when we look at the militarization of police that Giuliani has reinforced time and time again in this country and what the results has been in our community.

Also the fact that he is reaffirming that all lives matter, which in itself is a racist statement because it disregards the fact and it pays -- gives no validity to the facts that we have around.

We say all lives matter, we know it is not uplifting the fact that black lives matter. We've seen time and time again that black lives do not matter, and so all lives will not matter until black lives matter.

So until we see more equality, more justice that come out of these cases around the killings of black people and see them valued in the same ways as the killings of people of other descents, then black lives do not matter by those statute.

CABRERA: You know, racism is not something that is going to go away overnight. You all have been putting this message out for at least the past couple of years, demonstrating following some of these high profile police killings of African-Americans or other ethnic groups or minorities. What is the end game for Black Lives Matter?

MARIE: The end game is to be able to achieve dignity, human rights, and justice for black people.

CABRERA: What is the tangible thing that you would see happening that you guys can say, OK, now this is marking a change?

MARIE: Correct. So some -- a lot of that comes through policy. A lot comes through being able to see police being held more accountable. So through the policy that will allow for that to happen, for the court cases that will allow for that to happen, for police to be more accountable for media, society and law to be held more accountable, not just police killings, but the white vigilante killings of our people, as well as the laws that unjustly target us.

CABRERA: When you heard and saw what happened in Dallas last week on Friday that shifted the tone of the conversation quite a bit. Does it change the protesters approach in terms of putting out your message?

MARIE: So what happened in Dallas does not change the fact that black lives matter.

CABRERA: Right.

MARIE: Right, so that does not change the fact that we still need justice for Delron Small, that we still need justice for Philando, that we still need justice for Alton. So we must continue to proclaim that we need justice. We were not responsible for what happened in Dallas, you know.

Unfortunately, it happened, but we're not responsible for that. However, it is our responsibility continue to make sure that we push for accountability, and for justice in the killings of black people across this country.

CABRERA: I want you to listen to what the police chief in Dallas told Jack Tapper yesterday when he talked about his officers coming under attack while protecting protesters. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE CHIEF: We're sworn to protect you and your right to protest and we will give our lives for it. And it is sort of like being in a relationship where you love that person, but that person can't express or show you love back.

I don't know if you've been in a relationship like that before, but it is a tough relationship to be in where we show our love, because there is no greater love than to give your life for someone, and that's what we're continuing to be willing to do.

And we just need to hear from the protesters back to us. We appreciate the work you do for us in our right to protest. That should be fairly easy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Do you want to respond to the chief?

MARIE: Yes, I would like to respond by saying we would not need to be protesting if police officers were not killing us. There would be no need to protest. It is not our end goal, nor is it our desire to be protesting for the rest of our lives, as our ends.

CABRERA: Do you appreciate these police officers who are not the bad apples, those are the few, right, and the large majority of police officers in America have good intentions?

MARIE: So it's not about the individual police officers. It is about the systemic oppression, the systemic in justice of policing in this country. So we need to really change that narrative.

Because we continue to be asked about the good police officers, and when we see almost 1,100 people killed last year by police officers, then we have to asked, few bad apples, when we're in July of the year, midway through the year, and we see over 550 people have been shot and killed this year by police officers.

And those are the numbers that are reported, that are killed, not just the shootings, then we have to ask, does that sound look a few?

[09:25:07]That doesn't sound like one, two, three or four to me. It sounds like a larger problem. We know that there is a larger systemic problem. I say you know, when we don't want this to be the end to what we're out here doing in the streets. We wish we did not have to protest. We wish we didn't have to stand out here in the streets just to reaffirm our humanity as black people in this country.

CABRERA: Autumn Marie, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. We appreciate you joining us.

Still to come, Republican officials getting down to business on their party's platform ahead of next week's convention. We will breakdown some of the big shifts in policy, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Hello again. Thanks for rolling with me. I'm Ana Cabrera in for Carol today. Tensions running high across the country right now. So much though President Obama chose to cut short his trip to Europe and return to Washington last night.