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Police Arrest 48 Protesters in Baton Rouge; New Details on Dallas Police Killer; Photographer Caught in the Crossfire. Aired 10- 10:30a ET

Aired July 11, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:00] VALERIE ZAMARRIPA, SLAIN OFFICER'S MOTHER: I don't think he had a bad bone in his body or had any ill feeling for anyone, anyone. He's a very humble, caring, passionate, lovable person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: We want to continue to lift up those lives that were taken too soon.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM begins right now.

Good morning. Thanks for joining me here at 10:00 in the East. I'm Ana Cabrera in for Carol Costello this morning. Lots to talk about as Dallas is preparing for tomorrow's public memorial for its slain officers.

The crowds are growing. Tensions still building in nationwide protests. Take a look at these images from over the weekend. Massive turnouts across the country. More than 300 people were arrested over the weekend. In some cities, protesters flooded the freeways blocking the traffic.

And meanwhile, we're learning more about the killer. Police say that Dallas attacker may have been planning an even greater attack, greater carnage. Police say Army veteran Micah Johnson had amassed enough bomb-making material for a much larger attack. The Dallas police chief described some of his bizarre ramblings as he exchanged messages with hostage negotiators and gloated over his killing spree.

Our correspondents and experts are covering all the angles this morning. I want to begin in Baton Rouge with CNN's Nick Valencia.

Nick, the protesters are not giving up.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, they're not, Ana. And good morning. This is highlighted here. The tension and anxiety anyway by a series of demonstrations that shows just how emotional this week was. The country seemingly torn from within by the violence. We saw very large crowds here in Baton Rouge over the weekend and a lot of arrests. While the violence was minimal compared to other cities, the arrests were plenty.

And three days nearly 200 people arrested and from those demonstrations, we are seeing striking images including one of a woman in a dress confronting police. We don't know much about her. We are trying to learn a little bit more.

Now I mentioned that high arrest count. Police attributed to -- police -- I'm sorry, demonstrators coming from out of state to protest against police. Demonstrators like Black Lives Matter activist DeRay Mckesson earlier in one of his first interviews since being released from jail, he told me why he decided to show up here in Baton Rouge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: You have been criticized for perhaps wanting to garner attention rather than effect real change. How do you respond to those who criticize you for making it about yourself?

DERAY MCKESSON, BLACK LIVES MATTER ACTIVIST: Yes. So the reality is, like, look, I live streamed it and you saw that I was not planning to get arrested. But the police approached me from behind and, again, I was in jail, so I don't know what -- I have no clue, you know, how I was portrayed in the media until I got out. And the reality is that there's so many people who were arrested and we have a great sense of community in jail and the focus is about making sure that everybody gets out.

There's a lot of money that's been raised with the bail fund. I and so many people have been working to make sure they're released and that they have legal counsel. It is important that I and everybody else get to use our platforms to bring attention to the crisis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: Police -- DeRay, I should say, went on to criticize police, saying in their statements they still refused to take accountability. Now police are still very much so on high alert. Not just here but across the country.

Back here in Baton Rouge, more demonstrations are planned for later today -- Ana.

CABRERA: Nick Valencia, stay safe out there and thank you so much.

The protest did turn violent in Minneapolis where activists clashed with police over the weekend hurling rocks, even Molotov cocktails, according to officers. And one officer is recovering from a broken vertebrae after a 25-pound rock was dropped on his head.

Minneapolis was home to Philando Castile, one of two African-American men gunned down by police last week. Castile's mom saying the protest violence, quote, "disrespects my son and his memory. He was a man of peace and dignity. I ask you to at all times remain peaceful."

Now let's go to Dallas. The city reeling from unspeakable grief, as investigators unravel the madness that fueled Friday's attack on police there. The Dallas police chief now says investigators found evidence that the killer was planning an even bigger attack. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHIEF DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: It appears that our search of the suspect's home in Mesquite leads us to believe based on evidence of bomb-making materials and a journal that this suspect had been practicing explosive detonations and that the materials was such that it was large enough to have devastating effects throughout our city and our north Texas area.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Let's bring in CNN's Victor Blackwell. He joins us live from Dallas in the growing makeshift memorial scene there.

Victor, what more are we learning about this investigation?

[10:05:03] VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Let's talk about that, Ana. In addition to what you heard there during that exclusive interview with CNN with the chief of Dallas police, David Brown, he talked about ballistic vests and rifles found inside that home. Also more about the journal, suggestions that this shooter was willing to employ military tactics in a much larger attack.

You'll remember that eyewitnesses shortly after the shooting said that there was so much ammunition in the shooter's pockets that was falling out of his pockets. We're also learning more about the negotiations that went on for two hours, as we know, unsuccessfully. We're told by the chief during that interview that it was filled with taunting and teasing. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: He just basically lied to us, playing games, laughing at us, singing, asking how many did he get. And that he wanted to kill some more and that there were bombs there. If I can just add, at the scene where he was killed, there were some -- he wrote some lettering in blood on the wall. We are trying to decipher that. But he wrote letters "R.B." We're trying to figure out through -- looking at things in his home what those initials mean.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Now part of the selection of the things in his home the chief was talking about there, they're going to be looking at his laptop where they found evidence of radicalization following several hate groups. They'll be looking through his contacts to see if those "RB," the letter there are initials or if they are -- it's an acronym for some other group that he's a member of.

Now aside from the investigation, the healing process has begun here of course. There will be a vigil in front of city hall tonight. And of course the big citywide memorial is tomorrow. President Obama, Vice President Joe Biden will be here as well. And Dallas residents, former president George W. Bush and former first lady Laura Bush will be there. The president and the former president will both speak -- Ana.

CABRERA: All right. Victor Blackwell, thank you from Dallas this morning.

Let's talk more about the investigation and some of these new details we're learning. With me now is Tom Fuentes, CNN senior law enforcement analyst, and Wallace Zeins, a former NYPD hostage negotiator.

Tom, let's start with you. We heard from police chief there in Dallas saying there is evidence this killer was planning a much larger attack, large enough to have devastating effects. He had amassed explosive devices. Had actually been practicing detonations and yet we didn't hear anything about explosives in this incident. So clearly his plans changed.

Why do you think that happened? Why did he attack when he did?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I think, Ana, was just the opportunity presented itself before he was fully operational to do the larger attack with explosives. Now he did tell negotiators he had explosives so all the discussion about the police using the explosives attacked to a robot, that's part of the context, is the police didn't want to assault him, not just because he had such a powerful automatic assault rifle, but that if he had explosives, suicide vests, or something and detonated it, there'd be more dead police officers.

So yes, he was -- it appears he was looking for a larger attack but given that the protesters were out there and that made the police be out there in a greater presence just presented an opportunity that he didn't want to pass up.

CABRERA: And that's scary when you think about that, Tom. When you think that he could do something like this on a fly and yet have the kind of impact that he was able to do.

FUENTES: Well, it just goes to show you, you can't get inside the head of every single 330 million people in the United States. One person with a very bad weapon can do tremendous amount of damage. And you know, we've seen this over and over. The FBI broke up a plot in Michigan in 2010 where the shooters were going to kill a police officer on a traffic stop but then plant explosives when all of the thousands of officers came for the funeral, then kill many, many more with high-powered explosives.

So it's not the first time. And that was, by the way, a white group. So it's not the first time that, you know, this kind of mass attack on police officers has been thought about or planned or attempted.

CABRERA: Well, if I want to tap into your expertise as a hostage negotiator and running a unit that did hostage negotiations here in New York, the killer we've learned was laughing, he was singing during this attack as he was talking with people on the phone. The chief says he actually seemed in control and he continued to shoot and then would ask how many officers did I get. How do you deal with somebody like this?

WALLACE ZEINS, FORMER NYPD HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: Well, with someone like that, you want to get into a conversation with that person where you're developing a rapport. And that type of individual in a hostage negotiation is basically what we call an EDP, an emotionally disturbed person. And those are probably the hardest people to negotiate with because they have a statement that they want to make and on top of that, it's not being answered.

[10:10:05] And what they want to do is they want to have that word, that conversation, and to the -- you know, to the police and they want an outcome immediately and that's what takes so long.

CABRERA: I want you to listen to how the Dallas police chief described another part of the negotiation and then we'll talk on the back side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: For a long time during negotiation, because of the negotiators' expertise, the suspect wouldn't believe he was black until they talked some more. And -- but during that talk it didn't matter whether he was black because he was shooting at us. So asking for a black negotiator didn't make sense to us, it didn't matter to us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: So what do you make of that request, Wallace, to ask for a black negotiator?

ZEINS: Well, you know, if everything -- the bottom line in hostage negotiating is that the longer it takes, the better chances you have to have a successful outcome. What's so important is that if the department has a black negotiator -- in NYPD, I had a case once where they wanted a certain type of negotiator and I fit the bill and I was the negotiator. So that's important because now you're developing rapport, you're developing some sort of credibility with the hostage- taker. In this case, this guy was a total emotionally disturbed person plus more.

I mean, he had heavy, heavy body armor. He had heavy weapons. He claimed he had explosives. And you always go with the premise that it's there until you prove differently. So this was a waiting game. And negotiations were not working. So they had to go to the next phase.

CABRERA: Tom, when you look at some of clues that we have now, we know that the killer wrote the letters "R.B." In blood on the wall where he ultimately died. They have a journal with ramblings. They have his own words during the two-hour negotiation with this individual. What do you think is the biggest clue to point to a motive?

FUENTES: Well, I think right now what he said to the negotiators is one huge clue and secondly what they have found as far as the Web sites he was visiting, the interactions, you know, he went to pretty radical sites. He went to many that were neutral and just, you know, freedom of speech. But he went to many that were advocating hate and violence against law enforcement and, you know, on Facebook he liked it, you know, he gave the symbol and said he likes it.

And he indicated to other people that knew him that he had these kind of thoughts as well as practicing his military-style maneuvers in the backyard of his home according to neighbors. I think the totality shows that, you know, with all of his emotional and mental problems, he was zeroed in on carrying out this particular mission against white police officers.

CABRERA: And very quickly to follow up on that, if he was so emotionally disturbed, when you talk about mental illness, how do you stop somebody like that? Is gun control another issue here? Would that have made a difference? Tom.

FUENTES: Oh, I'm sorry. Well, in the days when I was a street cop, as, you know, we started to see more and more heavy weaponry in the part of -- in the hands of bad guys, the police were advocating, at least many officers I worked with, wished that they would take assault rifles in particular off the street and some other weaponry that we were going up against. Didn't want to abolish the Second Amendment or any of that, but just wanted to essentially make it a fair fight, if one happened.

And from the 1920s when gangsters had Thompson sub machine guns, to the present, the police have been playing catch up in the weaponry of bad guys. We make so much about the militarization of the police. Why don't we make something out of the militarization of the public? Not just assault rifles, body armor and some of the other, night vision goggles, other things. So, you know, it's a bigger issue.

CABRERA: I wish -- I wish we had more time to talk. Wallace Zeins, Tom Fuentes, thank you very much. We really appreciate your expertise in this.

Still to come, there's a photographer who was caught in the crossfire. You can see images taken from his camera as this Dallas cop was protecting him. His remarkable photos. He shares his story with us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

[10:18:19] CABRERA: Just in the last few minutes, we are now hearing from the parents of the shooter in Dallas. Micah Xavier Johnson. They just spoke to the newspaper "The Blaze." I want you to listen to what they said about their son and how they never saw this coming.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICAH XAVIER JOHNSON, FATHER OF DALLAS SHOOTER: Don't know what to say. To anybody to make things better. I didn't see it coming.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was a good son. He was a good son.

JOHNSON: I love my son with all my heart. I hate what he did. UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did her ever talk about any of his experiences

in the military that maybe made you question, did something happen, was it the war?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't remember anything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't remember anything about it. He just -- the military was not what Micah thought it would be.

JOHNSON: It disappointed him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He -- he was very disappointed. Very disappointed. But it may be that he -- the ideal that he thought of our government, of what he thought the military represented. It just didn't live up to his expectations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Now, the "Blaze" is set to release more of this interview soon. I want to talk about what we just heard with our CNN senior law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes.

Tom, you can hear and see the heartbreak in those parents as they try to come to grips like the rest of us with the actions that Johnson took.

[10:20:05] What stood out to you about what you just heard?

FUENTES: Well, I think, Ana, you know, my heart goes out to family members, especially parents, when they have a child that does what theirs did in this situation. You know, there's no -- you know, I don't want to get into any kind of discussion about how terrible is for them -- it is terrible for them, and whether they knew or not or were in denial about their son and what happened when he was in the military, what happened since, and that they had no clue he was amassing in their home explosives and high-powered rifles and doing military maneuvers in the backyard. I mean, we don't know that they knew that, and you know, that's just -- I feel very sorry for them.

CABRERA: We don't know what they knew but as we are learning more about this interview, we're hearing from his mother who said she watched her son transform from a fun-loving extrovert into a hermit after his military service which apparently spanned six years. He was deployed to Afghanistan for seven months we now know. His parents say they couldn't recall their son mentioning any particular incident that may have been a turning point or a breaking point for him but that when he came back something had changed.

What do we do as people, as friends, as family members of military members to raise a red flag? Is there a time that people need to raise a red flag and say, wait a minute, we need help?

FUENTES: Well, we don't know that they saw any reason other than that he became more quiet or reclusive or withdrawn, you know, people -- you know, we have people that have such serious injuries and psychological problems that are waiting months and months to get into VA facilities so someone in his condition may not have raised to that level that he could even get the help if he needed it when no one knew for sure how badly he was in need of help.

CABRERA: What are the questions you would have as a law enforcement officer for his parents?

FUENTES: You know, at this moment, I would have very few questions. It's just, you know, their son is no longer an active threat to the police and, you know, this can -- I don't know, I don't know that this is the appropriate time to be going through the whole situation with them.

CABRERA: We've actually heard from some family members of the lives lost who have said that they are also feeling for these parents, the parents of the killer. And as a parent myself, I can't imagine being in their shoes, that's for sure.

Tom Fuentes, thank you for your insight, we appreciate it.

FUENTES: You're welcome.

CABRERA: We'll take a break and be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:27:11] CABRERA: They are stunning pictures from last week's attack taken by a freelance photographer who was there to cover the Dallas protests. Robert Moore ducked behind a police car when the shooting started. That's when an officer shielded him as bullets rained down.

So this was the photographer's view of the mayhem. A (INAUDIBLE) street there, the visible sweat on the brow of this officer, his weapon ready in his hand. And now to talk us through some of these pictures, Robert Moore joining us from Dallas.

Thank you, sir, so much for joining us and sharing your images with us. What was going through your mind when you started snapping those pictures?

ROBERT MOORE, PHOTOGRAPHER: At the time I was snapping the photos, I really didn't know how many shooters there were. They didn't know in what direction they were coming from. There was a lot of chaos. Communication being shouted between the officers. And I was primarily following the instructions of the two officers that were on my left and the officer you see in the photo to get small, stay protected and, you know, don't put yourself in the open. That's what I was doing.

CABRERA: If it were me, I think I would be fully focused on my safety at that moment, but yes, you had enough of your mind there with you to start taking pictures, to try to capture what was happening. Why?

MOORE: In reality, we were there for two hours. I had the camera with me.

CABRERA: Two hours. MOORE: I had gone out to document -- gone out to document the march

which started right outside my condo building and basically in my front yard, and I got down to that intersection when the firing broke out. I saw one officer hit and fall and then ran between that vehicle that we're crouched between. So I had my camera. I didn't use it for quite a while because I certainly didn't want -- I didn't want to be in the way. I didn't go out to get in the middle of a shootout. That was not my intent.

I want to document the photos like the work I do in many places around the world. But for -- in that instant, you have a camera, you're in that situation, and the look on the officer's face, you see the intensity, you see the hyper vigilance. He's checking the surroundings. It was a very intense situation and I thought, OK, I'm going to get a couple of photos here. And then put the camera away.

I'm certainly not going to -- you know, intrude in what he's doing. But I mean, I'm shoulder to shoulder with that officer. He's right there. And then I have two more on my left. I'm sandwiched between.

CABRERA: Wow. And he's personally protecting you, I understand it is personal for you. What happened to these officers, some of them, because you come from a family of police officers, right?

MOORE: My brother is a chief of police. He's been a police officer for 38 years.