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Dallas Shooting; Dallas Chief Offers Solution. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired July 11, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:18] DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon. This is CNN's special live coverage of the ambush in Dallas.

At any moment, surgeons, doctors, first responders are going to speak for the first time since that horrific night in their city. We're going to bring that to you live. You see them there setting up for that press conference there in Dallas.

But first, an exhausted and frustrated police chief taking questions from reporters and revealing more about the man who sprawled cryptic messages in blood after shooting 12 police officers, killing five. Chief David Brown also saying he and his family got death threats after his department used explosives strapped to a robot to take out the sniper, Micah Xavier Johnson. Here he was just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE: There was a large stockpile. One of the bomb techs called me at home to describe his concern of how large a stockpile of bomb-making materials he had. And according to that bomb tech, he knew what he was doing. That this wasn't some novice. And so what's on his laptop, how he learn that - we don't think he learned it in the military. At least we don't have any evidence of that. We - you can learn all that online, I guess.

I don't know whether or not he planned to escape and then the bombing would start, or he didn't have time to complete. We just don't know how the bombing aspect of his plan were going to play out. We're looking for those answers. And the concern is that we haven't found something that's out there. That's the concern. We don't know that that's reality, but we're asking the question and trying to find leads to see if there was any answers to that.

The Dallas Police Department, working with the Federal Bureau of Investigations, we're working also with our law enforcement partners in the area to determine the meaning of the initials, "R.B." that were scribed on the walls there in two locations inside El Centro.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: You know, as we mentioned, those mysterious initials you just heard the police chief refer to were scrawled in blood where the shooter had holed up before his death. Also today, the dead shooter's father, his mother, and stepmother are

openly expressing their own shock and heartbreak and what they think may have caused him to snap.

I'm joined now by CNN's Victor Blackwell. He has been covering this story for us from Dallas. And there he is today.

Before we get to the parents, Victor, that interview, what else did the police chief reveal and what are you learning about the weaponry used in this ambush?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Well, let's start with the weaponry there, Don, first.

We're learning from a law enforcement source who has knowledge of the investigation about first that semiautomatic rifle, the semiautomatic assault style rifle. An Izhmash Saiga. A 545 caliber, which is a variation of the AK, that was the weapon that he used to injure so many people on Thursday night. Also, a Glock 19, generation four pistol, and a Frazier handgun. Those were found on or near his body there at El Centro. We also know from this law enforcement source that he was wearing a bulletproof vest. But let me take you to the house, where investigators found more

information we're told from this source. Evidence of additional weapons purchases, gun boxes, receipts for a Cobra, a Larsen (ph), Walter, a Glock handguns. Now, this may sound like an arsenal, but let's be frank, here, quite possibly, this number of guns would not be remarkable except for the context in which all this was discovered.

And specifically about the Cobra and the Larsen. I spoke with a police officer here who also is a weapons expert and he says that those are very cheap, about $50 each. So this source also says that these are inexpensive, throwaway weapons. But you heard the chief there talk about the bomb making materials found at the home.

LEMON: And, Victor, the Dallas shooter's parents gave an exclusive interview to The Blaze, revealing what they say changed him. What was it?

BLACKWELL: Yes, you know, we talked about his military record, that he served in Afghanistan, but we learned from his parents that he seemed to be quite disillusioned by that military service. Listen to a portion of the interview here with the shooter's mother.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The military was not what Micah thought it would be.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It disappointed him?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He - he was very disappointed. Very disappointed. But it may be that he - the ideal that he thought of our government, of what he thought the military represented. It just didn't live up to his expectation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:05:07] BLACKWELL: So investigators will, of course, be looking to that information as they continue to dig through forensically that laptop that was found at his home, to find out exactly how he was radicalized and where he acquired the training.

LEMON: Victor Blackwell, thank you very much for that. Appreciate it.

You know, it may be the most meaningful plea yet in all of this, the protesters of the Black Lives Matter movement, not just to stay peaceful, but much more than that. And it came minutes ago from the Dallas police chief.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE: Become a part of the solution. Serve your community. Don't be a part of the problem. We're hiring. We're hiring. Get off that protest line and put an application in. And we'll put you in your neighborhood. And help - we will help you resolve some of the problems you're protesting about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So let's discuss that now with founding member and organizer of Black Lives Matter, Melina Abdullah, and also Steve Rogers, who is a retired detective and lieutenant from New Jersey and a former member of the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force.

Thank you so much for joining us, both of you.

Melina, what do you think of the chief's idea? Would Black Lives Matter consider taking on jobs serving for police department as part of your mission?

MELINA ABDULLAH, ORGANIZER & ORIGINAL MEMBER, BLACK LIVES MATTER: Absolutely not. What we are about is the transformation of the system of policing. We believe that the system of policing is set up and structured to create the outcomes that it does, to create a system where black people are killed at least every 28 hours by law enforcement, where black men, like Alton Sterling and Philando Castile and Delron Small (ph) were murdered in the span of one week, four black men killed by police in a span of one weekend. And that's what we know of. And so we're looking to transform policing, we're looking to transform public safety in a way that we imagine and redefines what public safety is. So we want to (INAUDIBLE) community resources.

LEMON: You don't think you can do that - you have a - you don't think you'd have a good chance of doing that from the inside, as the chief said or as he intimated, I should say?

ABDULLAH: Absolutely not. The system is - the system is built to sustain itself. The system is fundamentally flawed. So I'm also a professor of Pan-African studies who studied the history of policing and understands that the system of policing that we have in Los Angeles and throughout this country is rooted in slave catching. It has its foundations in slave catching. And so to reform a system of slave catchers, to reform a system of paddy rollers is impossible. What we need to do is completely rethink, re-imagine, redefine what public safety means to us, and pour resources into communities rather than try and join a force that's meant to oppress and repress us.

LEMON: OK. I want to bring Steve in here and, Steve, get your opinion. What do you think of Chief Brown's idea? Do you foresee any problems with hiring protesters as police officers?

STEVE ROGERS, RETIRED DETECTIVE LIEUTENANT, NUTLEY, NEW JERSEY POLICE: The man is a hero. He's a role model for people of all ethnicities. And, Don, let me tell you, what he has suggested is already working across this country. Police officers from all ethnicities, and a lot of black police officers are now working closely through community policing in their neighborhoods and creating good relationships with the people.

And let me add this, Don. There was a voice all over the media, all over the media this morning, the voice of that mom, that heroic mom weeping about how police officers saved her life and the life of her children. I think, Don, she did more for good relationships between police and the people than anybody we've heard on the air recently. I - it's regrettable that your guest here takes that position, because we need to work together. We need to respect the police.

I agree, if there's bad cops, they should be off the force and they should be off the force forthwith. But to put a wall up and say that a chief of police, who by the way we know is African-American, is making a suggestion to heal wounds, we all need to jump onboard.

LEMON: Well, Melina, it does sound interesting that you're saying, you know, you wouldn't want to be part of that system, but you're trying to change the system. And again, from working on the inside, does it - does it sound like a job in policing is beneath someone who is a Black Lives Matter in the movement?

ABDULLAH: No, that's absolutely not what I said. What I did say is our focus is on the system of policing. This is a fundamentally flawed system. We know that every major study has demonstrated that what we need in terms of public safety is community resources. We need livable wage jobs. We need afterschool programs. We need prevention and intervention work. We need all of these things. We do not need to over invest in policing -

LEMON: But that can't happen as someone as a police officer - let me just jump in here. Someone - I police officer can't do that? If you had a -

ABDULLAH: Well - well, we want to defund (ph) - we want to shift things away from a city that spends 54 percent -

LEMON: OK, hang on. Will you let me, please, jump in and -

ABDULLAH: Of its resources on policing and we want to move things towards real community policing.

LEMON: And I want to finish ask - I want to finish ask - I want to finish asking you a question.

[14:10:15] So if someone is a police officer - that's not to say everyone in Black Lives Matter doesn't have to be a police officer. Obviously not. But members of black Lives Matter could never take a job as a police officer because if you're a police officer, then you may be able to work with the community and go to the black community and do things differently than police officers are doing now. That would be a great way to help change the way - the interaction between police officers and the community, no?

ABDULLAH: So maybe that's something that you think is a great way, Don Lemon, and, you know, you have your (INAUDIBLE) -

LEMON: No, I'm asking you.

ABDULLAH: And you believe in transforming -

LEMON: No, no, I'm just asking you.

ABDULLAH: Right, and so I've stated, we believe in the transformation. We don't want to be incorporated into the system of policing that's fundamentally oppressive. We want to transform things. We want to be community resources for folks. We want to be mental health providers and after school program providers, youth workers. We want to do that kind of work. We want to be the kind of workers that really (INAUDIBLE) and create safe communities.

LEMON: And - and a police officer.

ROGERS: And, Don, that - to that point, Don, police officers are doing it. They're in the schools.

LEMON: That's - police officers are doing that already, yes.

ROGERS: Yes, they're in the churches. They're in the schools. They're working with (INAUDIBLE) community leaders. And so I would suggest -

ABDULLAH: Police officers are not mental health professionals. Police officers are not youth workers.

LEMON: Hang on, one at a time, please.

ABDULLAH: Police officers are police.

LEMON: But they are - if you listen to the chief today -

ROGERS: And we know -

ABDULLAH: And so we (INAUDIBLE) experts, you don't ask -

LEMON: Hang on, both of you. If you listen to the police chief today -

ABDULLAH: You don't ask a teacher to be a police officer. A teacher is a noble profession. Let them - let us do what we do -

ROGERS: (INAUDIBLE) resource. LEMON: OK.

ROGERS: Don, the greatest resource we have -

LEMON: Listen, hang on, both of you, both of you. When you're doing all the talking, you're not listening and you don't learn anything. So, again, one at a time.

The police chief said today that officers are being asked to be all of these resource officers, counselors, they're asked to be judge and jury, all - that - that we were asking police officers to do too many things in society. So what is the problem with someone becoming a police officer and helping the community out and reforming - I don't understand what's wrong with - with reforming the system from the inside. That's sometimes the best way.

ABDULLAH: Why would we want police to be teachers? Teachers should be teachers. We don't want police to be teachers.

LEMON: They're already doing it.

ABDULLAH: Youth workers should be - so they shouldn't. And that's the point. The point is that those resources should go to the best systems. So if we want teachers, hire teachers. Don't hire police officers to be teachers.

LEMON: Yes. OK.

ABDULLAH: If we want youth workers, hire youth workers. Don't hire police officers to be youth workers.

LEMON: I want to continue this conversation, but I can't right now. I have to go to a press conference, a news conference happening in Dallas with the emergency workers who showed up. Here it is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE). Division of burn trauma and critical care.

I'd like to say thank you to the Dallas Police Department for everything they do, keeping us safe every single day. And my condolences to the families of those who have lost.

DR. JOSEPH MINEI, CHIEF OF SURGERY, PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL: I'm Joseph Minei. I'm a professor of surgery at UT Southwestern and the chief of the division of burn trauma and critical care. And I'm also the chief of surgery here at Parkland.

DR. BRIAN H. WILLIAMS, TRAUMA SURGEON, PARKLAND MEMORIAL HOSPITAL: My name is Brian Williams. I'm the associate professor of surgery for UT Southwestern. I'm a trauma surgeon. And I was in charge the night the Dallas officers came into the trauma center here.

DR. ALEX EASTMAN, MEDICAL DIRECTOR, REES-JONES TRAUMA CENTER AT PARKLAND: I'm Alex Eastman. I'm the medical director in chief for the Rees-Jones Trauma Center here at Parkland and assistant professor at UT Southwestern Medical Center also. And I'm a lieutenant deputy chief medical officer of the Dallas Police Department.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Dan Burbank (ph), I'm the patrol captain for the Dallas County Hospital District Police Department.

MINEI: So I'd like to open up with a statement. First off, I'd like to thank the police officers of this fine city, both Dallas Police Department and DART, for the service they give and the care they render every day, as well as the evening Thursday night. I'd also like to give my condolences, and on behalf of Parkland, the condolences to the families, friends, and the other police officers who are reeling from this tragedy and the deaths of their loved ones.

I'd like to thank our Parkland family, including all the doctors who were here, the nurses who helped care for patients, all the support staff, the administration and throughout the hospital, as well as our own police department who helped us stay safe that night.

I'd like to note that during that evening, they were already almost 300 people in the emergency room at the time that this event started. And over the course of the four or five hours, while it was all happening, another 134 patients came through the emergency room doors. It's a testament to this hospital and the people who served this community at this hospital for the care that they delivered to all those in the setting of this tragedy.

[14:15:13] I'd like to help - I'd like to thank the health care community nationally. We received an outpouring of support from across the country of many, many health care systems, too many to name, and we're thankful for the support that they've given us.

The health care community, at a time like this, also comes together. The way a community does. The police community did. And we, as a community, also are supporting each other through this difficult time.

With that, I'd like to open up to any of my other colleagues who might like to give a comment.

WILLIAMS: Again, I'm Brian Williams. I want to state first and foremost I stand with the Dallas Police Department. I stand with law enforcement all over this country.

This experience has been very personal for me and a turning point in my life. There was the added dynamic of officers being shot. We routinely care for multiple gunshot victims. But the preceding days of more black men dying at the hands of police officers affected me. I think the reasons are obvious. I fit that demographic of individuals. But I abhor what has been done to these officers and I grieve with their families.

I understand the anger and the frustration and distrust of law enforcement. But they are not the problem. The problem is the lack of open discussions about the impact of race relations in this country. And I think about it every day. That I was unable to save those cops when they came here that night. It weighs on my mind constantly.

This killing, it has to stop. Black men dying and being forgotten, people retaliating against the people that are sworn to defend us. We have to come together and end all this.

MINEI: I'd like to open it up for questions.

QUESTION: Can you describe the scene of the emergency room that night? As you mentioned, 300 people, and then another 134, and then all this happening at one time (ph)?

WILLIAMS: So, the trauma center is a self-contained area within the entire emergency department. So that scene was pretty well controlled. And again, I said it's routine for us to care for multiple trauma victims at the same time. So it was business as usual for us. We did have to flex with our personnel resources to accommodate the additional people that were coming in. But the remainder of the ED (ph), I can't comment on that. They do their job. And they did it effectively.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) if I could kind of respond to that.

So there were 17 trauma patients, trauma activations that came through the trauma center from 7:00 p.m. that night to 7:00 a.m. Obviously, seven of those were from the police department. Three came by ambulance and the rest came by private vehicle. Three came by private vehicle and the others were by ambulance. So when we know that we have a patient coming in, we stand up and we are preparing. We have the trauma team fully activated.

The first patient that arrived, arrived in a private car in very critical condition. We did not know that patient -

WILLIAMS: He came in a police car, not private car.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police car.

And when that patient arrived, the trauma team stood up, full activation, and then shortly behind that came another patient. Dr. Williams, Dr. Minei, Dr. Minshaw (ph) were our trauma surgeons that were in charge that night. The trauma nurses and the team were standing behind you (ph), did their jobs, as we normally do.

The difficulty in that situation is we were also accepting other trauma patients as they came in. There were requests for transfers. Patients who were critical, we referred those to our faculty to accept those patients.

[14:20:07] In a typical trauma activation, there's about 15 people that respond to that room, including the trauma faculty and the trauma nurses, respiratory, radiology, and a whole group of individuals that are very dedicated in (INAUDIBLE) trauma care.

It was very evident that night from the housekeeping, all the way to our trauma surgeons, those patients were our number one priority.

QUESTION: You said you treated seven police officers that night?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, sir.

QUESTION: Civilians related to the shooting?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had no civilians come through as related to the shootings.

QUESTION: Doctor Eastman, can you talk a little bit about the stress following the days of the shooting within the police department or for officers in general and how are they (INAUDIBLE) doing your job?

EASTMAN: Sure. I think we have been, as a department, incredibly busy in the days since Thursday night. We - I don't think any of us, I know none of us in the SWAT unit, have had time to decompress and process yet because our operational assignments have continued to keep the city safe and to respond to a number of things that have occurred since Thursday night.

I think the chief said it best this morning. We're hurting. We're all hurting. I think this has rocked some guys to their core who I thought were unshakable. And if you asked me last year at this time would I ever thought I'd see us shaken like this after the headquarters attack, many of us thought that that was the incident of our careers. And this makes that pale in comparison.

So part of my job, I mean I have operational responsibilities in the SWAT unit, but part of my job in the department overall is to make sure that every one of our 3,700 or so officers gets exactly what they need in the aftermath of something like this. I just can't thank the community enough for their support. What's come to our substations and headquarters and here at the hospital it has been nothing short of remarkable.

And to the guys sitting next to me here, no words can describe how I feel about them, this place, what it was like that night. I came here as soon as I wrapped things up on the scene. I came straight here to make sure that my partners and friends were OK. And I found anything but when I got here. And I think one of the things, like the police department, the trauma center here is a family. And we look after each other and take care of one another, and we're never better than when we're challenged together. And I can't ever imagine facing something worse than this again. But if we have to, I'll be very glad to have the men and women of this - the best trauma center in the country to stand with me.

QUESTION: Have you all been able - you know, the chief today mentioned the need for counseling, perhaps even mandatory counseling. Is that part of anything that's already in place or is that something completely new? What - how does that work?

EASTMAN: I'm going to refer you back to the police department. We have a robust psychological services section that helps us deal with post- incident trauma. Chief Brown has been a national leader in crafting post-critical incident stress management programs. We've actually presented on this topic together at the International Association of Chiefs of Police meeting last year with our posse, but I'm going to let the department handle the specifics of those.

QUESTION: When the initial calls came in, did anyone think back to what happened in Orlando just a few weeks ago, and was there a concern that perhaps it could be that kind of magnitude?

MINEI: Often when you get these initial calls, the communications and the information is often scant or sketchy or really not reliable. So we have a protocol here that we gear up, you know, expecting the worst, hoping for the best, that we have minimal to no casualties. But as they come through the door, we geared up to, you know, our maximal capacity. In fact, we had more surgeons here than we had those that were injured.

[14:25:31] QUESTION: Now did everybody go back to work the next day or was there any sort of time to sort of process any of the kind of ordeal, or do you all just have to go back to running the hospital?

EASTMAN: So, I'll take that first. I mean we - we have been constantly on the go as the Dallas Police Department SWAT team since. I - the incident was Thursday into Friday. We had more on Saturday. I missed my son's birthday party on Saturday because duty called. And I don't think any of us really have had a chance to stop yet. In fact, I'm the trauma surgeon on call for us right now.

So it's - you know, I think we will have time. But one of the things that I know is that right now there are people here that need our help. This city needs us to keep pressing forward. And I think what Brian said is exactly right. This is a time for all of us to come together because the path forward from here doesn't involve focusing on how different we are. The path forward involves the fact that when we have to do what we do, and when you look down on someone who is your - exploring in the operating room, we all look the same on the inside. There's no difference. And so we've got to move forward.

QUESTION: As health care experts, you all are moving forward. But at the same time, you're all healing and grieving. And so how do you afford everyone topnotch care while caring for yourself first? Mental - mental self-care. You know trauma. You see it every day. But perhaps this is different.

WILLIAMS: I appreciate that concern, how we're doing. And, for me, this is one of the most difficult times in my life. But I recognize that no matter what I'm going through right now, compared to the families of the officers, and the victims that were killed this last week, it's nothing. Yes, I want some time off. I've been going nonstop since Thursday night. But those families have lost someone very important to them. The officers, the victims in Baton Rouge and Minneapolis -- Minnesota, I'm sorry. So it's hard for me to complain about my life right now in comparison to theirs.

QUESTION: And I guess my question wasn't so much geared toward complaint, but more of really taking care of yourself mentally, even as a department, as a team of surgeons.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the - I - you want to answer that?

WILLIAMS: No, go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that we pride ourselves on the fact that we're a family. We talk amongst ourselves frequently. And a bigger component of that is belonging to Parkland. And the nurses, the other providers have had such an outpouring of support, and offering, hey, can I talk. I was on call, I was a trauma surgeon on call on Saturday. And everyone that I met said, hey, great job, tough job, anything you - I can do to help you.

And so I think as us it helps to have - to be able to confide with our partners and talk things over and discuss what we went through and how things ran and how they went smoothly, and that helps us. Throughout our training, we learn to compartmentalize. This is very difficult to compartmentalize. And I think you can see that all of us are showing signs that we're not doing a great job of that. But beyond that, we have everyone in this entire building has got our back. And that means a lot. And so knowing that we still have things to do and have to move forward, I think time is only going to make this better.

[14:29:39] It's like - it's like losing a best friend. It's going to take time to get over it. Part of getting over it, though, is moving forward with what we have to do on a day-to-day basis. And I think I take a lot of - I got a lot of recovery on Saturday taking care of all the trauma patients and the emergency general surgery patients, kind of gave me an opportunity to focus on the things that I do well and not necessarily have to think about the families that are missing people.