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President Obama To Attend Memorial; Racial and Police Tensions. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired July 11, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:12] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's noon in Dallas, 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 8:00 p.m. in Baghdad. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Up first, police are now revealing new details about the gunman who ambushed and who killed five police officers in Dallas. At a news conference just a little while ago, the Dallas police chief said investigators are examining hours and hours of body camera and dash cam videos. They're also trying to determine what the gunman, Micah Johnson, planned to do with a stockpile of explosives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID BROWN, POLICE CHIEF, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: I don't know whether or not he planned to escape and then the bombing would start or he didn't have time to complete. We just don't know how the bombing aspect of his plans were going to play out. We're looking for those answers.

And the concern is that we haven't found something that's out there. That's the concern. We don't know that -- that's reality. But we're asking the question and trying to find leads to see if there is any answers to that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: In an interview in "TheBlaze," the gunman's parents said they noticed a change in his behavior after his discharge from the U.S. Army in 2015. But his father says he never expected anything like the ambush that killed five police officers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know what to say to anybody to make anything better. I didn't see it coming.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But Micah, honey, he was a good son.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a good son. I loved my son with all my heart. I hate what he did.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: Protesters were back on the streets today. The group showing up for racial justice held a protest against police violence this morning in Philadelphia.

Over the weekend, protest took place across the country. Police arrested more than 300 demonstrators. The protests started after two African-American men were killed by police in separate incidents last week.

Let's bring in our CNN Correspondent Victor Blackwell and CNN Investigative Correspondent Drew Griffin. They're joining us from Dallas right now.

The Dallas Police Department just held that news conference a little while ago. Victor, you were there. What else did you learn?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A really revealing news conference here from the chief of the department, David Brown, painting a picture of what was found with the body or near the body of this killer also what was inside his home.

Let's go first to what was found there on the scene. This coming first from a law enforcement source familiar with the investigation. I'll list off for you the weapons that were found there, Glock 19 pistol, a Frazier handgun, an Izhmash Saiga, a 545 which is a variation of the A.K., a semi-automatic assault rifle.

We're also told that this man was wearing a bullet proof vest. We've also learned that once this investigation went to his home in the suburbs of Dallas, Wolf, there were evidences of additional weapons purchased, including gun box packaging, receipts for a Cobra, a Larsen, Walther, a Glock handgun as well.

Now, this sounds like a large number of persons. But essentially, for one person, and let's be frank here, in Texas, those that have that number of guns really would not be remarkable except for the context in which all this was discovered.

I also want you to listen, though, to what the chief said during this news conference about the bomb-making materials that were discovered inside that home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: There was a large stockpile. One of the bomb techs called me at home to describe his concern of how large a stockpile of bomb- making materials he had. And according to that bomb tech, he knew what he was doing. That this wasn't some novice.

And so, what's on his laptop, how he learned that, we don't think he learned it in the military. At least we don't have any evidence of that. We can learn all that online, I guess.

And so, we're trying to determine how he learned how to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLACKWELL: Wolf, we'll talk more about the new -- the news conference in a moment. But I want you to watch what's happening here. I'm going to step out of the way. A moment of silence here.

[13:05:02] BLITZER: Victor, stand by over there. I want to get back to you.

I want to go over to Drew Griffin though, as we watch this very emotional moment over there, that makeshift memorial.

Drew, police are now saying they're also looking into Johnson's online activities. What have we learned? What can you tell us about that?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: We know that he was heavily involved in looking at the Facebooks and the Web sites of many different black centric groups, also black nationalists and militant groups. We've reached out to some of those groups. They say they don't know him, never met him. But he was actively liking and being -- apparently following those groups online.

What we don't know is if there was any kind of connection being made to anyone else involved in this. And I think, by the sheer fact that there have been no additional search warrants, we haven't heard of any additional any suspects, it really looks like we're dealing with a lone wolf. And that means you're starting to look at the mentality inside this person's mind.

And, Wolf, during this news conference today, there was one point where the chief said, during the actual negotiations when they were trying to get the killer to give up, the killer supposedly said to the police, how many did I get? In other words, how many did I kill? And he was speaking directly to the police which shows you the mindset that he was in at the moment which must have been sheer hate -- Wolf.

BLITZER: He was also -- according to the police chief, Drew, he was singing. He was drawing some initials on a wall in his own blood. We just heard his father say that when he came back after serving seven months' active duty in Afghanistan with the U.S. Army, he seemed different. What else can you tell us, Drew, about those elements?

GRIFFIN: His friends have told us the same thing, that when he came back from the military -- and we should say he was in the military six years in the Army Reserve. He only spent about nine months of that period overseas in Afghanistan in carpentry and masonry work, not battle work.

But during that time -- he came back in 2014. During that time, he was accused, in the military by another soldier, of some kind of sexual harassment or creating a hostile work environment. That female soldier asked that there be a restraining order placed against him and that he get mental help.

It eventually led to his honorable discharge. But according to the attorney that represented Micah Johnson in those formalities, that was a -- basically a plea bargain. Though there was no criminal charges made, he was able to leave the Army from dishonorable to an actual honorable discharge. He, obviously, was kicked out of the Army and it was after that that his friends began to notice this reclusiveness and this change in his demeanor.

BLITZER: All right, Drew, thank you very much. Drew and Victor, we'll get back to you.

I want to bring in our Senior Law Enforcement Analyst Tom Fuentes and retired Los Angeles Police Department, Sergeant Cheryl Dorsey. Cheryl, the -- Chief Brown also said they're continuing to download, what, he said about 170 hours of body camera vid -- footage from the scene, dash cam video from squad cars, from video surrounding the businesses. Walk us through what that process is like and potentially what it could show.

CHERYL DORSEY, RETIRED SERGEANT, LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, hopefully, they'll be able to glean some information with regards to his activities and what it is actually that this young man was doing moments before, as he virtually stalked the officers. And so, this will certainly speak to the planning, the preparation and the tactics that he deployed against those officers.

BLITZER: And, Tom, the fact that he was singing, drawing initials in his own blood, apparently he must have been wounded if he had blood coming out, on a wall. And sort of making jokes, if you will, with the police saying, you know, his goal was to kill white people, especially white police officers. So, what does that say to you about his mental state?

[13:10:02] TOM FUENTES, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, it says what the negotiator said, that, you know, he was in such a state that he was not going to surrender. That he was enjoying what he was doing. That he had killed cops. He wanted to know how many he got. And that he intended to kill more.

And so, they pretty much realized, and they gave that advice to Chief Brown, that he's not going to surrender peacefully. This is going to end badly. And the question then becomes how to end it with no further loss of police officers.

BLITZER: Cheryl, I want you to listen to Chief Brown, he's the Dallas Police Chief, at that news conference a little while ago. He said the police are being asked to do a lot right now. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: We're asking cops do too much in this country. We are. We're just asking us to do too much. Every societal failure, we put it off on the cops to solve. Not enough mental health funding. Let the cop handle it. Not enough drug addiction funding. Let's give it to the cops.

Here in Dallas, we've got a loose dog problem. Let's have the cops chase loose dogs. The, you know, schools fail. Give it to the cops. 70 percent of the African-American population (ph) is being raised by single women. Let's give it to the cops to solve that as well. That's too much to ask. Policing was never meant to solve all those problems.

And I'll just ask for other parts of our democracy, along with the free press, to help us. To help us and not put that burden all on law enforcement to resolve.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: What's your response, Cheryl?

DORSEY: Well, you know, listen, we can't internalize the problems of the world. And I understand that, you know, police officers are asked to do a lot and wear many hats. That's inherent to police work and that's why it's also important in that hiring process, in that psychological evaluation process, that officers are scrutinized to make sure that they're up for the task.

And then, once hired, they need to be re-evaluated to make sure that their heads remain on straight so that they're able to take on these tasks and change hats frequently without any, really, problems, you know, going forward.

And if you find someone who's having difficulty negotiating through those many different hats that they have to wear, then please help them find another position.

BLITZER: I got to tell you, this police chief in Dallas, Tom, Chief David Brown, very impressive. He speaks with a lot of credibility, a lot of authority. He knows what he's talking about.

FUENTES: Right. And I like what he said toward the end of the interview that for the people that are out there that are protesters, if you want to make a real difference, we're hiring. Come be a police officer. Come on the street here.

And, you know, in the 1970s, I finished my college education with what was called a LEEP grant, Law Enforcement Education Program. They should bring that back. You get loans, basically, from the government to finish your college education. And for each year you spend as an officer afterward, 25 percent is forgiven.

So, if you're an officer for four years after graduation, you don't owe any money back. Because you can't ask students or young people to incur debts of $50,000, $70,000, $100,000 to go to college and then come work for $44,000 a year.

So, we need to take a look at exactly -- what are we hiring? What are we looking for? We want police officers to be robots. We want them to be Harvard debaters. We want them to be Olympic wrestlers and track stars and have phenomenal judgement.

And, you know, then we don't look at the background. Cheryl's right. We need to look at police screening, applicant training, then training, and sustaining the training throughout their careers. That's true. All of that's true.

BLITZER: All right, Tom. Tom Fuentes, Cheryl Dorsey. All right, guys, thanks very much.

President Obama, by the way, he will speak tomorrow at a memorial service in Dallas. What he may say to ease simmering tensions across the country. We'll update you on that.

Plus, take a look at this. We've got some live pictures coming in from Virginia Beach right now where Donald Trump will make a campaign stop momentarily. He's just one week away from the Republican National Convention where he's expected to secure the nomination. But the never Trump movement making its last stand to try to stop him. We have details on that and a whole lot more right after this.

[13:14:21]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:18:08] BLITZER: A cloud of pain, anguish and anger hanging over the country right now following the tragic events last week. Two African-American men killed by police, five police officers ambushed and killed by a sniper. Tomorrow, President Obama will speak at a memorial service for the five police officers. The president also expected to talk about ways to try to heal divisions in the country and how to address the anger over the shootings by police.

Let's bring in CNN presidential historian Douglas Brinkley and Michael Eric Dyson. He's the author of "The Black Presidency: Barack Obama and the Politics of Race in America."

Guys, thanks very much for joining us.

Douglas, what does the country need to hear from the president tomorrow? This will be an important address.

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, you know, unfortunately, he's made dozens of these kinds of grief counselor, you know, hand-holding, rabbi, priest speeches where he tries to heal the nation and it doesn't really seem to do any good. We have to give Barack Obama high marks, however, for staying calm, for being steady through these crisis, and at times quite inspiring, like when he sang "Amazing Grace" at the AME Church after the Charleston killings. But tomorrow he needs to try to heal the police and the protesters. He's got a tricky dance of standing up for law enforcement, but also talking about people's right for peaceful protest.

BLITZER: You've written a whole book about him and this entire issue. What do you want to hear him say?

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, AUTHOR, "THE BLACK PRESIDENCY": Well, I would have preferred him go to Louisiana, then on to Minnesota, then end in Dallas, because he could truly bring, as Professor Brinkley talked about, a healing to the nation. He's got to acknowledge the lethal and ferocious assault upon that police department there in Dallas and he's got to acknowledge the lethal and ferocious assault upon black men and women's lives in America. And he's got to acknowledge both at the same time. And he can do that by visiting all those terrains. [13:20:02] But tomorrow, when he gives that speech, then he's got to speak healing into the nation, not as a renunciation of the past, but in a grappling with it and to say we must finally and forever be done with the divisions that roiled the American surface and how can we come together as a nation, not by denying the issues that our black brothers and sisters have and not by denying what the police have at stake as well, the desire for protection in the midst of doing their duties.

BLITZER: Douglas, he's been president of the United States for seven and a half years. He's wrapping up now his final months as president. Usually, at this moment in a presidency, the end of a second term, presidents are -- feel more liberated, if you will, to say things they might not have been willing to say in a first term or even earlier in a second term. Is that fair?

BRINKLEY: That is fair. But Barack Obama is somebody who operates with a great deal of caution. And when he goes to Dallas, he's going to be thinking mainly about the families of the police officers and the families of the victims in Minnesota and Louisiana. He really is trying to be almost like a minister.

After that, I think he might have an opportunity at a White House meeting next week to bring people together and start doing something more aggressive. Now, he's tried to talk about the gun issue and try to have gun reform and it's gone nowhere. You have a Republican controlled Congress that doesn't want to work with him on that issue. You have an NRA that's quite powerful. But there may be an opening on mental illness. A lot of these tragedies and killings are about people that we need to spot and the police can't constantly deal with deranged people. So I think in the case of the gentlemen that killed the police officers in Dallas, he had been in the armed forces. There had to have been psychiatric reports about him. We're going to have to find ways to start lessening this amount of senseless death.

BLITZER: Have you seen a shift in his discussion of these very sensitive issues over these years, on the part of the president?

DYSON: Yes, there's been an evolution of thought and consideration. He felt very constrained initially after weighing in with the infamous skip gate (ph) situation. Then he learned the lesson, hey, I can't weigh in there because there's going to be a lot of trauma.

After that, after the Trayvon Martin situation and then after some of the police misconduct according to the activists in Ferguson and other places, the president was able to gird up his loins, so to speak, and move forward more aggressively. And then, of course, after the death of those nine souls in Charleston, he was able to bring together the nation in the way that Douglas Brinkley is calling for, with a poetic eulogy that rhapsodized about American race, but also the possibilities that are there. Now what he's got to do is heal the nation and -- but especially because the police have been such controversial centers for Black Lives Matter's activists. This is where they converge. And the president has to have a balancing act.

BLITZER: And, very quickly, should he bring up the issues of guns in his address tomorrow?

DYSON: He should, but I think what he will do, he will defer that until next week. I think what he'll say is that this is the senselessness that is brought when we fail to come together. But he won't harp on that. That will be part of a larger trajectory that he'll make. Mostly he will heal the grieving, he will being Lincoln- esque like by speaking to the harm, the danger and the trauma that these people have confronted.

BLITZER: Michael Eric Dyson, Doug Brinkley, guys, thanks very much.

Coming up later today on "The Lead," the vice president of the United States, Joe Biden, will sit down with Jake Tapper to discuss the Dallas ambush, protests around the country, the race for the White House. That interview, 4:00 p.m. Eastern on "The Lead" with Jake Tapper, only here on CNN.

Up next, beyond the president's message. We'll take a closer look at what could be done on a more individual level to heal the communities out there. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:28:18] BLITZER: The deaths of two more African-American men at the hand of police, the ambush murders of five police officers in Dallas, a nation on edge right now. So where does the country go from here? Joining us now to discuss what's going on, Congresswoman Barbara Lee, Democrat of California.

Congresswoman, thanks very much for joining us.

REP. BARBARA LEE (D), CALIFORNIA: My pleasure.

BLITZER: So where do you think the country is right now?

LEE: Right now I think the country is mourning. We're grieving. I mean the loss of these two young men in Baton Rouge and in Minnesota, the loss of five police officers in Dallas. This violence has got to stop. And so I think where we are is re-assessing where we are and really understanding that we are our brothers and sisters keepers and we've got to move out of here and do something.

BLITZER: What needs -- what needs to be done right now?

LEE: Well, many things need to be done. First of all, we need to have, of course, our gun safety measures should be passed. I mean just the very modest measures on background checks, gun safety, on no fly, no buy. But also we need to look at the assault weapon ban. We need to also look at how we address issues around police transparency and accountability.

You know, the Republicans have defunded in our appropriations bill the cops program, the hiring portion. And I have a law that would -- a bill that would reinstitute that, but also institute racial diversity in terms of inclusion and hiring. BLITZER: And you speak with some authority. Your district includes

Oakland, where there have been a lot of these kinds of issues over the years.

I want you to listen to what the Dallas police chief, David Brown, said just a little while ago, when he was asked what the protesters should be doing. He gave a very important answer. Listen to this.

[13:30:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE: We're hiring. We're hiring. Get off that protest line and put an application in. And we'll put you in your neighborhood and help -- we will help you resolve some of the problems you're protesting.